Thaksin Supporters To Rally During Two-day Parliament Meeting

[mrtoad]

Hope the experts are satisfied with their English this time

I do like the irony of the board on the right side. Rather pathetic.

[jdinasia]

Hope the experts are satisfied with their English this time

I do like the irony of the board on the right side. Rather pathetic.

Hope they were all wearing masks because those judges would certainly find those statements 'actionable'

I am amazed by folks still thinking that some of the posters in this area are actually Thai

[ilyushin]

Thaksin's terrified that Aphisit's government, containing talented individuals such as himself, Korn, Jurin etc, will be successful and win over Issan's hearts. Then it's bye- bye for him forever and his minions who have come to depend on his funds for so long.

This is exactly what it is about. Thaksin has to smash the curerent government now or his position weakens. Expect him to try for any kind of chaos as evidented by the red shirts doing exactly what they said they wouldnt and beseige parliament.

Thaksin also is financuially a lot weaker than he was. Even if only 1% of the rumours of his financial situation are true he is rapidly conming to a point where he doesnt have the cash to play politics anymore without the support of other donors. Theese are abandoning his side rapidly. This makes the situation dangerous asd Thaksin must go for the win and the red shirts are his only hope. He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

I agree.

[LevelHead]

I would say you are all missing the point. The state of the world economy and the state of Thailand's tourism after the PAD antic's, along with the strong baht is now killing the economy.

More and more people are losing their jobs, the effects of the bad "high tourist" season will really hurt in the summer of 09 onwards.

This falls all into Thaksin's hand as it can be clearly seen to even the rice farmers that life under TRT was good, but under the Democrats/PAD its not.

No.....the Democrats will want to stay in power long enough to ammend the consitution and the electoral system such that TRT/PPP/PT can never win again, even if they have the majority votes.

Rather like Labour has done in the UK, they have reformed the consituences border lines to water down the Conservatives voting power.

The Democrats will attempt to do this and this is what the UDD and TRT/PPP/PT will now be fighting.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

To the "extreme" in future it will be North East will be one area with one MP as will the North with one MP.

Hat Yai will elect 50 MP's, Surat Thani another 50 MP's, Yala 50 MP's etc.......therefore allowing Democrat rule for ever more....... LOL

Thaksin's terrified that Aphisit's government, containing talented individuals such as himself, Korn, Jurin etc, will be successful and win over Issan's hearts. Then it's bye- bye for him forever and his minions who have come to depend on his funds for so long.

This is exactly what it is about. Thaksin has to smash the curerent government now or his position weakens. Expect him to try for any kind of chaos as evidented by the red shirts doing exactly what they said they wouldnt and beseige parliament.

Thaksin also is financuially a lot weaker than he was. Even if only 1% of the rumours of his financial situation are true he is rapidly conming to a point where he doesnt have the cash to play politics anymore without the support of other donors. Theese are abandoning his side rapidly. This makes the situation dangerous asd Thaksin must go for the win and the red shirts are his only hope. He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

I agree.

[Insight]

Hope the experts are satisfied with their English this time

I do like the irony of the board on the right side. Rather pathetic.

It's redefining the word "pathetic". If only we could get the full story from the UK why Thaksin's visa was revoked. I'm sure it'll all come out one day...

[sriracha john]

A picture says a thousand words.

*it certainly can, especially when it's paired with words like below*

PAD accuses UDD of insulting royal institution

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) coordinator Suriyasai Katasila on Monday criticised the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) for having the image of Their Majesties the King and Queen together with the phrase 'privileged thieves' on the same protesting stage.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...yal-institution

[mrtoad]

Hope the experts are satisfied with their English this time

I do like the irony of the board on the right side. Rather pathetic.

It's redefining the word "pathetic". If only we could get the full story from the UK why Thaksin's visa was revoked. I'm sure it'll all come out one day...

Yes, it would be very nice if we could get the full story of why Toxin had his visa revoked. I am sure that Toxin is hoping that it wont come out, as I guess it will make some interesting reading.

[animatic]

Yes, old picuture... like last week old...

and it's 'Red Shirts at Parlement' just like today was forecast.

Completely relevant.

It's not relevant to todays protest, it is of an earlier protest.... But don't put an old violent picture up with an article about today's so far peaceful protest. It gives the viewer the impression that things are violent, and currently that is not the case.

Also it's "red shirts at parlement", but the old picture he used does not even have a red shirt

Now if it turns violent today, then put up todays violent pictures with a story about the protest today....

I wish you would read the accompanying text before blasting off.

It was in trepidation of a recurrance, not insinuation that this was now happening.

[animatic]

Indeed, posting pictures which are not from today's protests is extremely disingenuous.

Does that include the plethora of photos that have been posted from the 1930's?

Does that also include the multitude of P-D's reposting and reposting of old pictures?

[oceano]

This is today.

[Plus]

Far too many people nicely miss out masses on information thats relative to the whole situation.

1/ The last TWO Democrat governments were kicked out for corruption.

2/ When TRT was disbanded "very surpsingly" the Democrats were not...

Oh please, the first Dem govt resigned voluntarily under public pressure over allegations of corruption. Has TRT/PPP goverment paid any attention to public pressure? Shameless is the word for them.

Second Democrat government simply lost elections.

TRT was disbanded for for setting up fake political parties with fake credentials, Democrats have never even been accused of any scams of such proportions. The recommendation of party dissolution was reached under Thaksin friendly EC, by EC appointed panel. It's a silly excuse to claim that it was just because of junta appointed court.

And what is this nonsense about Dems getting yellow cards when PPP got red for same offences? You just made it up.

Justice and fairness is when punishment is dispersed according to crimes, not equally between pariticipants, as you seem to imply.

[DP25]

He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

The PPP could have called an election any time they wanted to. They did not, because they knew that in a new election, with all the anti Thaksinists united behind a single party instead of splitting their vote across several parties, the PPP would be decimated. The PPP refused to call a new election during the protests, they needed to pardon Thaksin and remove corruption charges while they still had a chance, an election would have removed that opportunity. The fact is that only a small minority of Thais support Thaksin these days. Thaksin really has no hope at this point. He probably deludes himself in to believing that he is loved by the masses, his propaganda machine is effective enough that he likely believes it at this point. I don't expect justice to ever be done and Thaksin to be imprisoned for the rest of his life, but he is not getting back in to power.

[LevelHead]

Have you really got such a bad memory ? Or just being "biased" ?

Thaksin EC ?? I think not.......Junta was in charge, Sondhi even let it slip they would be dissolved before the verdict, then backtracked fast.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/12...cs_30026597.php

+++++++++++++++++

Democrats along with TRT were "recommended" to be dissolved

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/06/27...es_30007427.php

+++++++++++++++++

And then in 2007 the Democrats were let off of everything, no dissolution, no bans. TRT was disbanded and 111 execs banned for 5 years.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200705/3...531_379528.html

++++++++++++++++++

Fair........ ?? LOL - you are clouded in your mind and forgetting where this all started.

Far too many people nicely miss out masses on information thats relative to the whole situation.

1/ The last TWO Democrat governments were kicked out for corruption.

2/ When TRT was disbanded "very surpsingly" the Democrats were not...

Oh please, the first Dem govt resigned voluntarily under public pressure over allegations of corruption. Has TRT/PPP goverment paid any attention to public pressure? Shameless is the word for them.

Second Democrat government simply lost elections.

TRT was disbanded for for setting up fake political parties with fake credentials, Democrats have never even been accused of any scams of such proportions. The recommendation of party dissolution was reached under Thaksin friendly EC, by EC appointed panel. It's a silly excuse to claim that it was just because of junta appointed court.

And what is this nonsense about Dems getting yellow cards when PPP got red for same offences? You just made it up.

Justice and fairness is when punishment is dispersed according to crimes, not equally between pariticipants, as you seem to imply.

[Old Man River]

....the Democrats will want to stay in power long enough to ammend the consitution and the electoral system such that TRT/PPP/PT can never win again, even if they have the majority votes.

Rather like Labour has done in the UK, they have reformed the consituences border lines to water down the Conservatives voting power.

The Democrats will attempt to do this and this is what the UDD and TRT/PPP/PT will now be fighting.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

You are aware that this is a coalition government aren't you? What this means is that no one political party can unilaterally change the constitution without the support of the majority of the other MP's in the coalition (i.e. this government is not solely controlled by the Democrats).

Many of the MP's in the current government were the same as when Thaksin's nominee government ruled. They did not seek to change the constitution then. Why all of a sudden will they seek to do that now?

[LevelHead]

You are aware that "a few" of Newin's mates went over to join the coalition.

You are aware that Newin's younger brother has now just been taken on by the Interior Ministry as a special "consultant", just last week.

You are aware many veteran Democrats were most upset Newin's lot gained top posts.

EG the "Newin" faction appear to have been "bought" in their words, given positions of power and the ability to make money, in return for letting the Democrats have the leadership.

Is that a coalition ? Really ?

Or are they just "feeding them" to keep them in control, while they carry out their tasks, one of which is constitutional reform.

They removed it from the policy speech they are trying to give, but be sure, its going to happen if they can get away with it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/8...-in-govt-policy

.

....the Democrats will want to stay in power long enough to ammend the consitution and the electoral system such that TRT/PPP/PT can never win again, even if they have the majority votes.

Rather like Labour has done in the UK, they have reformed the consituences border lines to water down the Conservatives voting power.

The Democrats will attempt to do this and this is what the UDD and TRT/PPP/PT will now be fighting.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

You are aware that this is a coalition government aren't you? What this means is that no one political party can unilaterally change the constitution without the support of the majority of the other MP's in the coalition (i.e. this government is not solely controlled by the Democrats).

Many of the MP's in the current government were the same as when Thaksin's nominee government ruled. They did not seek to change the constitution then. Why all of a sudden will they seek to do that now?

[samgrowth]

Yes, old picuture... like last week old...

and it's 'Red Shirts at Parlement' just like today was forecast.

Completely relevant.

It's not relevant to todays protest, it is of an earlier protest.... But don't put an old violent picture up with an article about today's so far peaceful protest. It gives the viewer the impression that things are violent, and currently that is not the case.

Also it's "red shirts at parlement", but the old picture he used does not even have a red shirt

Now if it turns violent today, then put up todays violent pictures with a story about the protest today....

I wish you would read the accompanying text before blasting off.

It was in trepidation of a recurrance, not insinuation that this was now happening.

Nice try.

[LevelHead]

If we are going for old photo's, I was most surprised this photo made it into "international media" in August 2008, but no such thing in Thai media ?

Wonder why they did not want it publicised the Army were training the PAD guards ?

[nickynomates]

All i have to say is The Lunatics have taken over the asylum

[jdinasia]

Level ---

TRT was disbanded for quite some different reasons than the Demos were in trouble for ... TRT was for vote FRAUD and the Demos were in trouble for not choosing to contest the elections as was their right. The Demos were NOT unanimously thought to be unconstitutional in that they did NOT tell people to not vote, instead they ran a no-vote campaign preventing the elections from returning a full house. (note that only TRT and the 2 other parties were up for FRAUD)

You are playing fast and loose with reality when you present those cases as being equal.

BTW --- only if a party is disbanded are the EXECS of that party banned. How effective a ban is in Thailand is certainly up for discussion as we are dealing with not only Newin but also Thaksin and many of the others that were banned with TRT to this day!

As for cabinet positions --- those are awarded proportionally ... though in the case where a smaller group is the deciding factor the leading partner in a coalition would be remiss to not make sure that the small group was represented in the new cabinet. ((I assume you know all this and are just pandering to the people that are clueless and easily swayed!)

[jdinasia]

Indeed, posting pictures which are not from today's protests is extremely disingenuous.

Does that include the plethora of photos that have been posted from the 1930's?

Does that also include the multitude of P-D's reposting and reposting of old pictures?

oh yeah .. the mislabelled photos used by him in Oct ... (I had forgotten why I always got the "You have chosen..." when he posted!)

[rocky3]

Thank-you PAD for setting the stage som nam nah

[Ricardo]

It's not relevant to todays protest, it is of an earlier protest.... But don't put an old violent picture up with an article about today's so far peaceful protest. It gives the viewer the impression that things are violent, and currently that is not the case.

Also it's "red shirts at parlement", but the old picture he used does not even have a red shirt

Now if it turns violent today, then put up todays violent pictures with a story about the protest today....

On a point of fact, apart from the red neck-ties worn by some of these demonstrators, I can clearly see at least two people in red-shirts, in the picture.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

To the "extreme" in future it will be North East will be one area with one MP as will the North with one MP.

Hat Yai will elect 50 MP's, Surat Thani another 50 MP's, Yala 50 MP's etc.......therefore allowing Democrat rule for ever more....... LOL

Do you have a source, crediting the Democrats, with this interesting proposal, which I haven't seen anywhere else, or is it just invented ?

He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

The PPP could have called an election any time they wanted to. They did not, because they knew that in a new election, with all the anti Thaksinists united behind a single party instead of splitting their vote across several parties, the PPP would be decimated. The PPP refused to call a new election during the protests, they needed to pardon Thaksin and remove corruption charges while they still had a chance, an election would have removed that opportunity. The fact is that only a small minority of Thais support Thaksin these days. Thaksin really has no hope at this point. He probably deludes himself in to believing that he is loved by the masses, his propaganda machine is effective enough that he likely believes it at this point. I don't expect justice to ever be done and Thaksin to be imprisoned for the rest of his life, but he is not getting back in to power.

This makes the point well, that the PPP-government had every opportunity to test their popularity with the voters, but failed to take it. If Thaksin does truly believe that 'his' party could still win an election, run under his brother-in-law rather than a military-appointed government, why did he not give the orders to do so ?

[Crushdepth]

So let them rally. Who cares? The 'Thaksin loyalists' haven't got a hope in hel_l because Dear Leader is a convicted criminal and won't be coming back until his sentence lapses.

Ten years from now

[LevelHead]

FRAUD ??

The Democrats ran a "no vote" campaign and refused to run (as they would lose).

TRT simply made up some parties to run in the elections so that there was not just a "single party". They were not fake parties, they simply in some cases did not comply with the "length of time" required for qualification.

It should be added that TRT beat "No Votes".........meaning that had any party run they would have lost (as was known and why they did not run).

The no vote campaign is illegal as it is by law required for Thai's to vote, how the Democrats got away with that is, well, now part of the reason we are in the troubles we are in.

Both parties should have been dissolved or neither, and had that happened back then things would have been very different today.

How serious one offence is compared to another is not a point of law, it is only if they break the law, in any way, minor or major, the party should be dissolved. This did not happen history and the arguments today suggest.

Cabinet positions yes, that will happen, but whats your thoughts on Newins younger brother being brought in last week to "help" the Interior Ministry, for example ?

Also, Peau Thai have a case gone to the constitutional court for the dissolvment of the Democrat Party.

As you will have seen Newin was photo's with Abhisit all over the media, cuddles and flowers as they tried to portray "union" and "agreement" ahead of the coalition being formed.

However, Newin was already banned from politics for 5 years just a few days earlier, and one of the conditions of that is "not being allowed to be at rallies, or be seen giving support to any other political party".

Abhisit and therefore the Democrats therefore broke the 5 year ban by embracing Newin and having it plastered all over the media.

Whats your thoughts on this ? Should the judiciary just "forget it" or should they keep with the letter of the law and perhaps now dissolve the Democrats ?

Level ---

TRT was disbanded for quite some different reasons than the Demos were in trouble for ... TRT was for vote FRAUD and the Demos were in trouble for not choosing to contest the elections as was their right. The Demos were NOT unanimously thought to be unconstitutional in that they did NOT tell people to not vote, instead they ran a no-vote campaign preventing the elections from returning a full house. (note that only TRT and the 2 other parties were up for FRAUD)

You are playing fast and loose with reality when you present those cases as being equal.

BTW --- only if a party is disbanded are the EXECS of that party banned. How effective a ban is in Thailand is certainly up for discussion as we are dealing with not only Newin but also Thaksin and many of the others that were banned with TRT to this day!

As for cabinet positions --- those are awarded proportionally ... though in the case where a smaller group is the deciding factor the leading partner in a coalition would be remiss to not make sure that the small group was represented in the new cabinet. ((I assume you know all this and are just pandering to the people that are clueless and easily swayed!)

[Old Man River]

You are aware that "a few" of Newin's mates went over to join the coalition.

You are aware that Newin's younger brother has now just been taken on by the Interior Ministry as a special "consultant", just last week.

You are aware many veteran Democrats were most upset Newin's lot gained top posts.

EG the "Newin" faction appear to have been "bought" in their words, given positions of power and the ability to make money, in return for letting the Democrats have the leadership.

Is that a coalition ? Really ?

Uhh, yes, actually that is what a coalition government is. You have to give up positions to get political parties to change sides. That is how it works. Did you really think former PPP coalition members would switch sides because they are nice guys?

[LevelHead]

If, as everyone knew, the PPP were to be dissolved how could they call an election ?????

They would have been dissolved and banned half way through the election campaign ?

Add on to this the PAD tactic, which is "grind people down". They hope to win by messing things up so much in the end everyone will just vote for party that can be in power and get rid of the PAD.

Its a tactic of war..........if, as they did, the PAD become such a pain in the butt to everyone, then eventually everyone will want "the easy way out".

This is happening now with the Democrats and lots of people trying to say "lets move forward".

This is very wrong, the PAD has moved it backwards and hoped that this action will eventually make everyone be happy with a bad result, than no result at all.

In view of that it was very wise to not have an election at that time, it needed to run its course, it needed to have the Democrats sneaked in through the back door, and allow people to see what is going on, and also to see that the Red Shirts will be an equal pain in the butt as the Yellow shirts.

Knowing this, people will not easily be slipped into "lets get this over and go with the Democrats" so easily, they will know there is no "easy choice" and they must stick to their rightful choice, whatever that is, and not be pushed into it by being sick to the teeth of the PAD.

It's not relevant to todays protest, it is of an earlier protest.... But don't put an old violent picture up with an article about today's so far peaceful protest. It gives the viewer the impression that things are violent, and currently that is not the case.

Also it's "red shirts at parlement", but the old picture he used does not even have a red shirt

Now if it turns violent today, then put up todays violent pictures with a story about the protest today....

On a point of fact, apart from the red neck-ties worn by some of these demonstrators, I can clearly see at least two people in red-shirts, in the picture.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

To the "extreme" in future it will be North East will be one area with one MP as will the North with one MP.

Hat Yai will elect 50 MP's, Surat Thani another 50 MP's, Yala 50 MP's etc.......therefore allowing Democrat rule for ever more....... LOL

Do you have a source, crediting the Democrats, with this interesting proposal, which I haven't seen anywhere else, or is it just invented ?

He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

The PPP could have called an election any time they wanted to. They did not, because they knew that in a new election, with all the anti Thaksinists united behind a single party instead of splitting their vote across several parties, the PPP would be decimated. The PPP refused to call a new election during the protests, they needed to pardon Thaksin and remove corruption charges while they still had a chance, an election would have removed that opportunity. The fact is that only a small minority of Thais support Thaksin these days. Thaksin really has no hope at this point. He probably deludes himself in to believing that he is loved by the masses, his propaganda machine is effective enough that he likely believes it at this point. I don't expect justice to ever be done and Thaksin to be imprisoned for the rest of his life, but he is not getting back in to power.

This makes the point well, that the PPP-government had every opportunity to test their popularity with the voters, but failed to take it. If Thaksin does truly believe that 'his' party could still win an election, run under his brother-in-law rather than a military-appointed government, why did he not give the orders to do so ?

[Gnarpjohan]

Why would the Democrats be disbanded they have never done anything wrong or unethical in their 50 year history. That is why Thailand had been such a prospeous country for all 60 million citizens before Thaskin took office and transformed the country into a third world nation.

To pick one example of the contrary, I know a Democrat MP and factory owner who bought votes by the thousands. Simply bussed his workers to vote with very clear instructions on which party to vote for. This was during Chuan Leekpai's regime. To my knowledge, without consequences and he's still active.

Here's from Wikipedia:

Although generally regarded as relatively clean and honest when compared to other Thai administrations, Chuan's government found itself plagued with corruption scandals and rumors. Key cases of corruption included:

* Rakkiat Sukhthana, Health Minister, was charged with taking a five million THB (125,000 USD) bribe from a drug firm and forcing state hospitals to buy medicine at exorbitant prices. After being found guilty, he jumped bail and went into hiding.

* Suthep Thaugsuban, Minister of Transport and Communications, whose brokering of illegal land deals caused the fall of the Chuan 1 government, was linked to abuse of funds in setting up a co-operative in his southern province of Surat Thani.[11]

* The "edible fence" seed scandal, in which massive overpricing of seeds distributed to rural areas happened. The Deputy Minister of Agriculture was forced to resign.[12]

* The Salween logging scandal, where up to 20,000 logs were felled illegally in the Salween forest in Mae Hong Son. Some of them turned up in the compound of the Democrat party’s office in Phichit province.[12]

* Sanan Kajornprasart, Interior Minister, as well as 8 other cabinet ministers were found to have understated their declared assets. Sanan was later barred by the Constitution Court from politics for 5 years.[13]

* Chuan himself was found by the National Counter-Corruption Commission to have undeclared shareholdings in a rural cooperative.[13]

Chuan stepped down as the head of the Democrat Party in 2003.

edit: English

Edited December 29, 2008 by Gnarpjohan

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, posting pictures which are not from today's protests is extremely disingenuous.

Does that include the plethora of photos that have been posted from the 1930's?

Does that also include the multitude of P-D's reposting and reposting of old pictures?

oh yeah .. the mislabelled photos used by him in Oct ... (I had forgotten why I always got the "You have chosen..." when he posted!)

So are you agreeing that it is disingenuous just like P-D's posting in October?

[Old Man River]

The no vote campaign is illegal as it is by law required for Thai's to vote, how the Democrats got away with that is, well, now part of the reason we are in the troubles we are in.

Let me help you with this. The Democrats got away with running a no vote campaign because it is legal. Voting no candidate is an allowed selection on the ballot.

The rest of your comments have been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum, but suffice it to say the election that the Democrats didn't run in was subsequently declared null and void. Perhaps they are smarter than you think.

[jdinasia]

Indeed, posting pictures which are not from today's protests is extremely disingenuous.

Does that include the plethora of photos that have been posted from the 1930's?

Does that also include the multitude of P-D's reposting and reposting of old pictures?

oh yeah .. the mislabelled photos used by him in Oct ... (I had forgotten why I always got the "You have chosen..." when he posted!)

So are you agreeing that it is disingenuous just like P-D's posting in October?

"That it" --- SRJ's pic of a real event associated with the group that is in the paper's article today? No.

It was timely and factual (as opposed to posting the same pics over and over claiming that it was one group and not the other.)

Read what is written along with photos and you will see the difference yourself and not need it pointed out to you.