What Happens If After 2 Years Your Wife Cannot Pass The Uk Citizenship Test ?

[nigelandjan]

Ive no idea

Evidently!

Could not agree with you more mate ! ,,,,, he has beautifully summed up his own stupidity and ignorance in 3 words !

[bonzor]

I simply do not understand why any one would object to immigrants having to learn the language of the country they are living in. It is also, I feel, important to learn something of the history, culture and traditions of the host country, and of course one's rights and responsibilities.

Although I accept that some of the questions do not appear very relevent, the major scandal, in my humble opinion, isn't that immigrants have to pass this test, but that many Brits couldn't!

It's another hurdle for them to pass. If they had the option of integrating and getting leave to remain through working and paying taxes and NI contributions that would be fairer but to ask a woman to come to a foreign country, find a job, take a driving test and study for esol is asking too much in my opinion. They should make allowances for those who are taxpayers in their own right. If they are paying their way and can demonstrate integration by working and paying taxes as a result of a job that requires real integration....ie not working in the kitchen of an ethnic restaurant then they should be treated favourably.

[bonzor]

7 uni degrees, she should be in Parliment !! must be getting on in years then, my daughter took 5 years to get a masters degree in Pharmacy [with letters after her name] , so with only 1 degree, perhaps she will be kicked out of UK soon, although she is UK born & bred to make way for your mrs? Yeah right! let them show the money like we have to in Thailand,

7 uni degrees in thailand different to 1 in UK ,you super member ?

My daughter has reliably informed me that if your mrs wants to make use of her 7 degrees in the UK she will have to go to an english uni, to get the UK equivalant, and if her english isnt up to scratch, she will have to take a lanuage course first, which of course will help her with the Life in UK test, have a look at this site, http://offices.exeter.ac.uk/international/.../Thailand.shtml and there are many others to choose from..

Would be interesting for you to post what degrees she has, then other members can help you evaluate them in regards of what use they are in UK.

Daughter with her one [dismal] masters degree in pharmacy is only on 55k UKP a year for a 37 hour week, she has to freelance at weekends at 35quid an hour to make ends meet,

When you meet your GF in thai, wasnt she working as a primary school teacher? and couldnt remember certain things that happened 8 years ago?

Yep, Super Member with a very good memory!

She can use the degrees without taking the english equivalents, lots of jobs use the degree as indicative of intelligence not as vocational qualifications. It depends on the job. Of course she needs to have reasonable english too.

[Boo]

so stay at home mums would be screwed. not all thai women moving to the UK work, some are housewives & stay at home mums, what about them then? And every one I know of has managed to either pass the course or take the test, Also pass their Uk driving test or are you suggesting that Thai women are incapable idiots? Hmmm.

[bonzor]

so stay at home mums would be screwed. not all thai women moving to the UK work, some are housewives & stay at home mums, what about them then? And every one I know of has managed to either pass the course or take the test, Also pass their Uk driving test or are you suggesting that Thai women are incapable idiots? Hmmm.

I'm saying that if the aims are

a. integration

b. contributing to british life

c demonstrating abilty at english

then a woman/man who comes to the Uk and passes the driving test, obtains a job dealing with english speakers and pays taxes and NI is demonstrating those qualities. They should be given some leeway. I'm at a loss to understand that as somehow penalising those who do not work. Its another route to success. A person who works so hard to integrate and contribute surely does not have to also take on the burden of extra study and expense when they have already adequately demonstrated their intention to integrate and contribute fullly into UK life. Incidentally, just in case you passed your test a long time ago. The driving test is an extremely difficult test and requires good english. How does that offend your super sensitive feminist sensibilities?

Having a test is more to do with the Mid Lothian question and the need to be seen to be doing something about immigration and little to do with true integration since as I have demonstrated above its perfectly feasible to demonstrate that in other ways whilst also contributing to the public purse. In effect they are paying twice over.

Of course if the above is a problem feel free to cherry pick from the above, misquote and misrepresent to make a smart remark.

Edited January 10, 2009 by bonzor

[7by7]

If they had the option of integrating and getting leave to remain through working and paying taxes and NI contributions that would be fairer

So, how are they going to do all that if they can't speak English?

There are many immigrants, usually women and mainly from the Indian sub continent, who came to this country and obtained ILR before this requirement was introduced and cannot speak any English at all. They are virtual prisoners in their own homes, trapped within ghetto like communities simply because they are unable to communicate with anyone outside that community. If they do work it is in low paid jobs, usually as the employee of a fellow language speaker and often without the employee rights and benefits that the rest of us take for granted; simply because their lack of English means they are unaware of their rights and unable to obtain work elsewhere.

That is why the KOL requirement was introduced, and in my opinion is the one good thing this crappy government has done about immigration since they came to power.

Others may not have been trapped, but didn't get around to learning English after living here for decades simply because they had no motivation to do so. The KOL requirement gives thm that motivation.

As I said, I cannot fathom why anyone would not want their partner to be able to communicate effectively with those around her.

to ask a woman to come to a foreign country, find a job, take a driving test and study for esol is asking too much in my opinion.

You appear to have a very low opinion of the intelligence of women, or is it just Thai women?

As repeated at length, we are not talking about a PhD here! The level of English and the amount of work required is within the ability range of the average 10 year old! It can certainly be combined with other things, such as learning to drive (and how will they manage that without being able to speak to their instructor?) and finding a job (and how will that happen if they cannot speak English? Except for working in the kitchen of an ethnic restaurant.).

Of course, you may say that your suggestions are for those who already have an ability at English. If someone can already speak, read and write English at Esol entry level 3 (entry level, which is not a very high standard!) then they should be able to study for and take the test instead of sitting a course. All this takes is a little bit of application and for most people about 10 hours study. Not difficult.

Edited January 10, 2009 by 7by7

[Mossfinn]

but to ask a woman to come to a foreign country, find a job, take a driving test and study for esol is asking too much in my opinion.

My wife did all of these, except it was two, jobs not one

Moss

[Boo]

How does that offend your super sensitive feminist sensibilities?

lol, large chip I see on your shoulder there. If someone who claims to have 7 degrees is unable to pass what an ex-bg with barely a year or two of schooling can (thai women I know who didn't expect to pay her way out of the requirements, just cracked on with the study & passed) then you have to wonder, what is wrong with her?

[7by7]

Having a test is more to do with the Mid Lothian question

As this, more commonly called the West Lothian question, is to do with Scottish MPs being able to vote on purely English matters but English MPs not being able to vote on purely Scottish ones; how does it come into play here?

Remember that the KOL requirement can be met by demonstrating ability in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic as well as English.

[bonzor]

but to ask a woman to come to a foreign country, find a job, take a driving test and study for esol is asking too much in my opinion.

My wife did all of these, except it was two, jobs not one

Moss

That reflects great credit on her, with someone like your wife I think she has done enough to prove her committment to the UK. We should value such people as they contribute greatly to the economy and add to our culture, instead of asking her to jump through yet another hoop. She was already working hard enough to integrate. In her case I would welcome her, she's already paying through the taxe and NI system so why charge ger again?

[bonzor]

Having a test is more to do with the Mid Lothian question

As this, more commonly called the West Lothian question, is to do with Scottish MPs being able to vote on purely English matters but English MPs not being able to vote on purely Scottish ones; how does it come into play here?

Remember that the KOL requirement can be met by demonstrating ability in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic as well as English.

Quite simply because of Gordon Broon and his difficult position which is ameliorated by emphasising britishness.

[7by7]

Except that this requirement was first introduced when Blair was PM.

Any chance of an answer to my other questions?

[bonzor]

If they had the option of integrating and getting leave to remain through working and paying taxes and NI contributions that would be fairer

So, how are they going to do all that if they can't speak English?

There are many immigrants, usually women and mainly from the Indian sub continent, who came to this country and obtained ILR before this requirement was introduced and cannot speak any English at all. They are virtual prisoners in their own homes, trapped within ghetto like communities simply because they are unable to communicate with anyone outside that community. If they do work it is in low paid jobs, usually as the employee of a fellow language speaker and often without the employee rights and benefits that the rest of us take for granted; simply because their lack of English means they are unaware of their rights and unable to obtain work elsewhere.

That is why the KOL requirement was introduced, and in my opinion is the one good thing this crappy government has done about immigration since they came to power.

Others may not have been trapped, but didn't get around to learning English after living here for decades simply because they had no motivation to do so. The KOL requirement gives thm that motivation.

As I said, I cannot fathom why anyone would not want their partner to be able to communicate effectively with those around her.

to ask a woman to come to a foreign country, find a job, take a driving test and study for esol is asking too much in my opinion.

You appear to have a very low opinion of the intelligence of women, or is it just Thai women?

As repeated at length, we are not talking about a PhD here! The level of English and the amount of work required is within the ability range of the average 10 year old! It can certainly be combined with other things, such as learning to drive (and how will they manage that without being able to speak to their instructor?) and finding a job (and how will that happen if they cannot speak English? Except for working in the kitchen of an ethnic restaurant.).

Of course, you may say that your suggestions are for those who already have an ability at English. If someone can already speak, read and write English at Esol entry level 3 (entry level, which is not a very high standard!) then they should be able to study for and take the test instead of sitting a course. All this takes is a little bit of application and for most people about 10 hours study. Not difficult.

You obviously have little knowledge of the british school system and you are patronising too. If that level of english and comprehension is too much for so many british school leavers why do we ask it of immigrants in a second language? I will overlook your assertions as to the intelligence of women I am supposed to harbour except to say I dont believe and have never believed for one millisecond my entire life that women are in any way inferior to men. You only have to look at Boo to understand that. She has been, and remains one of the smartest contributors to this forum on this and any other subject and you can say that of lots of female posters. The fact that she takes issue with me affects that not one jot. Trying to ensure that the government is fair to working thai immigrants, usually women, who already hold jobs and pay taxes, can only, in your fevered and overwrought imagination, be construed as saying Thai women aren't intelligent.

Edited January 10, 2009 by bonzor

[bonzor]

Except that this requirement was first introduced when Blair was PM.

Any chance of an answer to my other questions?

Far be it for me to educate you in basic politics but if you were a british politician and couldn't see the scottish question coming and attempt to deal with it you wouldn't get to the top of the greasy pole would you? Wasn't blair too, the architect of devolution? You need to get out more, its Brown who has been banging on about it again and again. Try googling the subject of "Britishness" and see who makes all the speeches, Broon.

As for other questions, I post about a woman already....already.... in a job speaking english so you ask how they will get a job without speaking english....

As to your other point, if you think that KOL was introduced to help indian sub continent women escape their shackles you are naive in the extreme and even basic politics would be wasted upon you. For all your healthy scepticism about this "crappy" government you believe that only hearts of pure gold introduced the act...dream on.

Edited January 10, 2009 by bonzor

[bonzor]

Except that this requirement was first introduced when Blair was PM.

Any chance of an answer to my other questions?

Far be it for me to educate you in basic politics but if you were a british politician and couldn't see the scottish question coming and attempt to deal with it you wouldn't get to the top of the greasy pole would you? Wasn't blair too, the architect of devolution? You need to get out more, its Brown who has been banging on about it again and again. Try googling the subject of "Britishness" and see who makes all the speeches, Broon.

As for other questions, some are too silly to answer. I post about a woman already....already.... in a job speaking english so you ask how they will get a job without speaking english......doh Thats one answered.

As to your other point, if you think that KOL was introduced to help indian sub continent women escape their shackles you are naive in the extreme and even basic politics would be wasted upon you. For all your healthy scepticism about this "crappy" government you believe that only hearts of pure gold introduced the act...dream on.

One other point, when I raised the issue with a junior minister I know from my schooldays, as to why if they were keen to free these women of their oppressive shackles they were also massively increasing the fees to study english his reply was off the record as you can imagine, but the BNP and right wing of the Tory party and tough on immgrants for the tabloids featured high in the answer. They had no intention of helping immigrants. Posturing, not policy.

Edited January 10, 2009 by bonzor

[Lickey]

Ive no idea

Evidently!

Could not agree with you more mate ! ,,,,, he has beautifully summed up his own stupidity and ignorance in 3 words !

Ah Nigel, was it you who have been to thailand 10 time to look for a wife?did some girl near Korat take all you xmas presents then tell you to f.... off? then you came to stay with us,Then you find a girl from Trang, import her to UK after 6weeks or so she wants to come back to thai, why was that? im sure forum members would like to know!

Then you bring Jan to our salon in namsom, my mrs says she ok girl, then you go to bkk to get married, but she already married!!, so my mrs find a good solicitor for her in Udon, was you gratefull, no, you didnt even say thankyou!! so who is stupid and ignorant, who with 7 degrees would forget they are married?

[Lickey]

Ive no idea

Evidently!

A one word answer that sums up everything, oh my god, it is so brilliant, it saves web space and so intelligent too,I have to congradulate you on not putting obscure coloquilisms in your one word reply,

If you have a dictionary at hand, try using it, i think you have a problem with your thought process,evidently of course!

[7by7]

So, according to bonzor the KOL requirement was introduced to keep Labour support alive and well in Scotland! Or was it to ensure BNP and other right wing supporters vote Labour?

It was he not I who reckons that women immigrants are unable to manage this simple test or pass from one level to the next on a very basic ESOL with citizenship course!

As said before, I have every sympathy with those who suddenly had this requirement thrust upon them with no time to prepare. Those who have entered the UK since then have two years to prepare for and take the test or, if their English is not good enough, pass from one level to the next on an ESOL with citizenship course; a feat which would take anyone one academic year at the most.

The test isn't difficult, provided one's English is up to it and one puts in a little work.

That some school leavers lack the necessary application to do so is a sad indictment of the current state of education in this country. Perhaps bonzor should get his friend the junior minister to deal with this rather than wasting his time moaning about how difficult this very simple test is.

Edited January 10, 2009 by 7by7

[Mossfinn]

C'mon guys, although I feel myself like going in with mortar fire, I think it is time for a truce.

Wadda think?

Moss

Post 41

Bonzar & Lickey well done

Job Done

This has actually turned into a thread of debate, rather than one of help and assistance, but I think quite interesting, Bonzar I hope I get time to answer you tomorrow, good Troll though. ( A Troll being someone who can stimulate off topic debate, rather than just being an ejit. )

Moss

[johndoarung]

My wife is struggling after many hours of study to get much more than 30% in the test results ,,,,when the minimum pass mark is 75% ,,its not as if she is some thicko as she has 7 university degrees and is a schoolteacher

If her English is not of a sufficient standard to understand the study materials and the test then she can enrol on an ESOL with citizenship course instead.

Johndoarung, the Africans and Pakistanis you dislike so much are subject to the same immigration rules and visa requirements as a Thai, including the prohibition on public funds. In fact anyone from outside the EEA who wishes to settle in the UK has to apply for a visa, live in the UK for the required time and take this test before they can obtain ILR.

Please take your ignorance and racism elsewhere.

Well my post wasnt a racist or ignorance post it was a fact. Ive been away from my wife for 4 months now working to get her visa sorted the last thing we need is this test, after a 2yr period its a con a farce really. England is a joke now really, to be honest i dont think other nations need these tests i think thats a load of crap. These tests are here to grind more money out of the working class. To be honest the worst thing you can be in England now is a working white english male and that is a fact. im not a racist i am a realist i work 50 hours a week and i just want a break really, from all these stupid things my wife has to obtain and do to stay with me its absolutely ridiculous. Also in my post i never said i dislike Africans and pakistanis i just said why do they get such an easy ride into England whilst OUR wifes have a HARD time its pathetic.

[7by7]

Well my post wasnt a racist or ignorance post it was a fact.......in my post i never said i dislike Africans and pakistanis i just said why do they get such an easy ride into England whilst OUR wifes have a HARD time

A fact? You seem to be confusing fact with prejudice and ignorance.

If you knew the facts then you would know that ANYONE who is a citizen from ANY country outside the European Economic Area who wishes to live in the UK is subject to the same immigration rules and application requirements; whether they are from Thailand, Pakistan, Nigeria, the USA or anywhere else.

[bonzor]

Well my post wasnt a racist or ignorance post it was a fact.......in my post i never said i dislike Africans and pakistanis i just said why do they get such an easy ride into England whilst OUR wifes have a HARD time

A fact? You seem to be confusing fact with prejudice and ignorance.

If you knew the facts then you would know that ANYONE who is a citizen from ANY country outside the European Economic Area who wishes to live in the UK is subject to the same immigration rules and application requirements; whether they are from Thailand, Pakistan, Nigeria, the USA or anywhere else.

He's right, you are just repeating BNP propaganda, the rules are the same for everybody. Get pissed off with the government not immigrants in the same position as your wife.

[johndoarung]

Everything i said was true 99% of people would agree the other 1% who didnt agree would be liars

[7by7]

In your first post here you claimed

for the last few years ive done a lot of travelling around the world, getting to the know the world and so on and ive been studying for 2 years. Now though i am working as a Residential Support worker for disabled people, a job i really enjoy.

That someone as educated and well travelled as you claim should hold and express such ignorant and prejudiced views as those you have expressed in this thread is amazing.

I pity your poor wife.

[Boo]

I have also removed one posters contribution to this thread, making reference to black people wearing rags. Thaivisa is not a democracy & will not tolerate BNP inspired bigotry. Take it elsewhere.

Everything i said was true 99% of people would agree the other 1% who didnt agree would be liars

LOL, you are confused. In your own prejudiced mindset you think everyone agrees with you but it is clearly not the case. As has been clearly pointed out, the new visa laws are in place to prevent people from abusing the system, which make your claims no longer valid. Your wife, as an immigrant, is now also required to follow those same rules.

So she either passes the test, takes a course as well as meeting the other requirements or she wont qualify for British citizenship. Looking at the number of sucess threads here & on other thai-uk websites, every thai wife of the posters there manage to get it with the required work & study. The same requirements that are in place for all non european union immigrants wishing to become citizens as well.

Why should your wife be exempt just from marrying you?

[Peeking]

I do not disagree with Life in the UK test, but feel some of the questions are irrelevant.....nevermind this. We are fast approaching the end of our first 2 years together in the UK and need extend one way or another.

Me and my wife (Thai) have a lovely baby girl 1 year old. Being a mother and house wife there isn't always alot of time for studying but she had been studying English at the local college which with the usual term times doesn't acually account to much study time.

My wife has passed the first ESOL test but the college here (Bury St Edmunds) doesn't support it with the Life in the UK part. The other nearest centre in Newmarket has stopped supporting it as well. Everytime I ask the college if they intend to support it they tell me they are looking into it.

I find it frustrating! Doesn't really leave us much choice but to pay the money.

but I have just read the Home Office Website:

'Exemption from meeting the language and knowledge of life in the United Kingdom requirements

Exemption for certain categories of applicants

You will also be exempt from meeting the requirements if you are applying for permanent residence in the following categories (but will need to meet the requirements if you subequently apply for British citizenship, unless you are exempt for other reasons). You are exempt if you:

....are applying for residence as a parent, grandparent or other dependant relative'

Is this right? Can she apply for ILR without the life in UK requirements?

[7by7]

If she falls into one of the exempt catergories, yes. However, from what you have said, she doesn't.

If she has not met the KOL requirement by the time her current LTR expires then she will have to apply for a two year extension (Further Leave to Remain).

How good is her English? It's probably worth giving the test a go.