Fire At Santika Night Club

[Dissolution]

I forgot to add, if anyone has any information whatsoever, please contact me at 0831365880.

Thanks.

[desertrat]

Will the government change the law now to ensure all public areas have adequate fire exits etc?....no.

Money is more important than lives in Thailand.

In fact a week from now this will all be forgotton and it will be business as usual from Saturday.

It is difficult to exit even the glitziest malls, due to lack of signage, and that's when all the lights are on.

Combine this with the amazing collection of flaky dangerous electrical wiring/plugs/sockets, we can only wonder when the next major loss of life occurs.

[taxexile]

news and comment about this tragedy is all over the worlds press , especially the asian press.

the fact that thailands precious image is in danger of being tarnished even further is the one thing that will spur the authorities to take some action.

thailands international image is everything to them and hopefully the international press will follow up developments , or non developments , and keep this story in the news.

only then will the authorities take action against those that are responsible for the state of affairs that led to this tragedy.

the thong lor police , the courts and the owners should all be brought to book over this.

if this government has any balls then it will take them on , but with "vested interests" spreading like a cancer through all sections of thai society , it will be difficult for real action to be taken. if it takes 5 years for the courts to sort out a licence for one club , just how long will it take to gather concrete evidence and prosecute the powerful officials who ultimately are responsible for the state of affairs that leads to events like this taking place.

compromise , forgiveness , mutual backscratching , favours and cosmetic adjustments are the way things are handled here.

it will take a complete overhaul of the way power is wielded here before public interest is considered more important than the interests of all the nasty little fiefdoms that control society here.

to those that say this tragedy is not about politics , i would say you are taking a very blinkered view , and a very thai view of it.

the sort of view you get with your head deep in the sand , under the carpet , and dare i say it , up your a-se.

[bravingbangkok]

news and comment about this tragedy is all over the worlds press , especially the asian press.

the fact that thailands precious image is in danger of being tarnished even further is the one thing that will spur the authorities to take some action.

thailands international image is everything to them and hopefully the international press will follow up developments , or non developments , and keep this story in the news.

only then will the authorities take action against those that are responsible for the state of affairs that led to this tragedy.

the thong lor police , the courts and the owners should all be brought to book over this.

if this government has any balls then it will take them on , but with "vested interests" spreading like a cancer through all sections of thai society , it will be difficult for real action to be taken. if it takes 5 years for the courts to sort out a licence for one club , just how long will it take to gather concrete evidence and prosecute the powerful officials who ultimately are responsible for the state of affairs that leads to events like this taking place.

compromise , forgiveness , mutual backscratching , favours and cosmetic adjustments are the way things are handled here.

it will take a complete overhaul of the way power is wielded here before public interest is considered more important than the interests of all the nasty little fiefdoms that control society here.

to those that say this tragedy is not about politics , i would say you are taking a very blinkered view , and a very thai view of it.

the sort of view you get with your head deep in the sand , under the carpet , and dare i say it , up your a-se.

I most certainly agree with this horrible tragedy not being forgotten and finally some justice dished out to the guilty. As I have mentioned before if there was anyone in Thailand to take the norm of Thailand on it is this PM.

I do not think it will really make a difference to the tourists as Thailand is one of these places that westerners seem to come to no matter what. Thailand is a 1 in a million and there is no place anywhere in the world like it, just take a look at what has happened in the last few years, Tsunami, Military Coup, violence in the south with hundreds already dead, bombs in the capital, major protests and violence in the street and still they are flocking in the thousands everyday. I just got back From London and the plane was full and so was the airport.

Edited January 3, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[adjan jb]

"Maj-Gen Jongrak said insurance fraud had been ruled out as a motive but that police had since 2004 refused Santika an operational licence because of safety concerns"

Straits Times, Jan. 3 2009

Edited January 3, 2009 by adjan jb

[skiman1]

By the way, "SANTIKA" means absolutely nothing in Spanish. Look it up.

"Beautiful of Nature" in Spanish would be "belleza de la naturaleza" or perhaps "belleza de la tierra"

"santika" is not even close.

"san" or "santa" in Spanish means "holy" but thats it. ( My 15 years living in Mexico gives me the background to say this)

What is Spanish for "irrelevant" ?

[adjan jb]

By the way, "SANTIKA" means absolutely nothing in Spanish. Look it up.

"Beautiful of Nature" in Spanish would be "belleza de la naturaleza" or perhaps "belleza de la tierra"

"santika" is not even close.

"san" or "santa" in Spanish means "holy" but thats it. ( My 15 years living in Mexico gives me the background to say this)

What is Spanish for "irrelevant" ?

Irrelevante

No pertinente

[redscouse]

I feel some people are missing a big point here. we have posters talking about making things right to save face, to give Thailand a good face to others, how about Thailand does the right thing simply because that's the right thing to do, not just to save face or restore face, or for political brownie points. How about Thais start caring about others and the fact that peoples actions normally affect other people. I lose count of the times that I am driving and have to avoid a certain accident because some blurt in a pick up wants to save 5 seconds or because some bus driver can not be bothered to be in the right lane, or because some idiot on a bike expects me to avoid their poor manoeuvre. Thais have a very selfish attitude on the whole and very rarely think about consequence. its as though the part of the brain that thinks about the dangers is missing.

we hear this save face thing all the time whilst in all honesty the poor level of safety in this country is is not only to do with corruption but also to do with the average Thais mentality.

Forget face Thailand, just do the right thing. stop accepting corruption, stop being selfish and stop accepting excuses from people who constantly fail you.

sadly nothing will change (lets hope nobody no tries to lower themselves with the 'don't live here then' mantra)

[Harley-Davidson]

I had many good times at Santika and it is hard to believe that anybody would be stupid enough to allow all of the inreadients for a Fire in to the club (Sparklers+Confetti+Johnny Walker = Tragic Balze).

My condolences go out to the poeple that lost family and friends, and I hope there is some accountability.

"The Police morgue yesterฌday was a spectacle of grief as relatives tearfully claimed loved ones' bodies, some telling reporters that valuables were missing. Twenty identified bodies were waiting to be claimed, while DNA samples had been collected from 21 unidentified charred bodies."..Nation Multimedia.

Also for those of you who don't know, the Emergency Services in Thailand are not exactly benevolent, and get their own form of compensation by stealing from the victims. A Sad but thrue fact.

[taxexile]

the Emergency Services in Thailand are not exactly benevolent, and get their own form of compensation by stealing from the victims. A Sad but thrue fact.

got anything to back up that statement ?

[Harley-Davidson]

Nine Year as an advisor working with the Police Special Branch.

[Alliecat]

I think there is some confusion here. Dissolution was looking for three guys and one woman, as per the group photo. Unfortunately she has already been identified. Animal lover posted regards the named Singaporean friend of the Singaporean man already confirmed dead, as per the individual photo.

Update:

The girl has been positively identified through DNA testing as one of the previously unidentified bodies. Please, if anyone has seen or has info about any of the other missing 3 guys, please let me know.

Thanks, and much appreciated.

Sad news. Condolences to her family.

I thought you were only looking for two guys?

4, actually. 3 guys and 1 girl.

3 guys now.

You mentioned the name of one Singaporean, and one Thai-Canadian. I assume the third guy is the one on the far left of the photo you posted, unnamed?

Edited January 3, 2009 by Alliecat

[Scott]

Sadly, a lot of nightclub/entertainment establishments never get a license. There is way too much money to be made by not licensing them. They have to pay 'tea money' to keep operating without the license or while the license is being processed--which never seems to materialize. The reason there is so little legal action is that there are too many people with a fair amount of guilt. If they dig very deep, lots of people might be in trouble.

So, the whitewash begins. Some lowly person takes the fall--for letting in an underage person, or for allowing more than the allotted number to "eat in the food shop." Do you really think the police thought it was a 'food shop?'

[HorseDoctor]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

Not sure about this, the smoke rises so... However, my mistake.. Seems sparklers are made from magnesium, not sulphur.

Wonder of the magnesium fumes contributed to the possible flash over.

Yes, please allow my lay speculation on this .

From the Wikipeadia

"Water should not be used to extinguish magnesium fires, because it can produce hydrogen which will feed the fire, .."

Edited January 3, 2009 by HorseDoctor

[sibeymai]

My condolences to the friends and families of those who died. My greatest sympathies go to the survivors, especially those who will remain disfigured.

For the survivors and especially the "beautiful", "in", "cool", "hip", "happening" crowd (what is sometimes referred to as "hi-so") who typically make up a portion of the clientele in places like Santika, such disfigurement may be worse than death. For burns victims depression and suicide can result from the long term effects. For some mental scarring can be more devastating than the physical. Some may find their social status changed significantly as a result of their injuries.

Lives have been ruined for many of the survivors who will find it hard to adjust in a society obsessed with physical beauty. I hope there are mental health services made available to the victims and families as part of their rehabilitation. People who have contact with survivors should be aware of the potential mental injuries to be faced over the coming months/years.

I don't hold much hope for a transparent investigation. The Thong Lo police are not likely to make much progress investigating themselves (why was an unlicensed venue allowed to operate for 4 years?). The cause of the fire may be determined but has little effect other than apportioning blame. As other posters have stated there is not the will to change Thailand's culture of corruption sufficiently to prevent this from happening again.

[cmsally]

Sadly, a lot of nightclub/entertainment establishments never get a license. There is way too much money to be made by not licensing them. They have to pay 'tea money' to keep operating without the license or while the license is being processed--which never seems to materialize. The reason there is so little legal action is that there are too many people with a fair amount of guilt. If they dig very deep, lots of people might be in trouble.

So, the whitewash begins. Some lowly person takes the fall--for letting in an underage person, or for allowing more than the allotted number to "eat in the food shop." Do you really think the police thought it was a 'food shop?'

Which of course brings you full circle back to the police but of course there will be no proof of the pay offs.

The only way to make progress is to get a published list of those places which are licensed and insured and which have up to scratch safety procedures. Not something easy to do and the incentive is going to have to come with the clientele and staff.

Things will change when the Thai consumer learns to demand what should be normal practice. When people vote with their feet the businesses have to duly follow. Let's hope that these people didn't die in vain.

[HorseDoctor]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

Not sure about this, the smoke rises so... However, my mistake.. Seems sparklers are made from magnesium, not sulphur.

Wonder of the magnesium fumes contributed to the possible flash over.

Yes, please allow my lay speculation on this .

From the Wikipeadia

"Water should not be used to extinguish magnesium fires, because it can produce hydrogen which will feed the fire, .."

Furthermore:

Carbon dioxide fire extinguishers should not be used, because magnesium can burn in carbon dioxide (forming magnesium oxide, MgO, and carbon).^[

[RubbahSlippahs]

I agree with you and it sucks to start the NYR off like this. I used to frequent this club in the past and they do cram the place unitl it's packed as every other venue, bus, etc. This goes for other clubs on Silom Soi 4 etc..

My heart goes out to the people and their families.

As nationalistic as the people are here, they really don't seem to care about safety, the environment, education, and the list goes on!

It makes me sick to see such negligence.

RIP

This is sad news for Thailand.

[steffi]

I agree with you and it sucks to start the NYR off like this. I used to frequent this club in the past and they do cram the place unitl it's packed as every other venue, bus, etc. This goes for other clubs on Silom Soi 4 etc..

My heart goes out to the people and their families.

As nationalistic as the people are here, they really don't seem to care about safety, the environment, education, and the list goes on!

It makes me sick to see such negligence.

RIP

This is sad news for Thailand.

Speaking of being nationalistic and all....

What do you think the reason was for the Police to initially state the many of the victims were foreigners?

[sriracha john]

It seems as if the political trolls have ceased for the morning, so here's a few assorted new bits...

Police were waiting for Santika pub owner Wisuk Setsawat to show up for questioning.

Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai said he did not know when Mr Wisuk would turn up and added that the pub owner suffered a respiratory problem in the fire.

Mr Wisuk was hospitalised but police said his whereabouts were not immediately known.

Police will call Chris Pongpithaya, the owner of the pub building, and Suriya Ritrabue, the pub manager, for interrogation instead. Worapot Inthulak, chief of the Watthana district office, said an early investigation attributed the fire to fireworks set off inside the building during the Santika's farewell party that night.

and

Nantana Sitthisak, head of Chulalongkorn hospital's forensics department, said six of the 14 bodies were burned beyond recognition. An autopsy report shows all were Asian women. Another two days to a week would be needed to complete the body identification process, she said.

and

Some of the dead's relatives filed complaints on Friday. Yai Waythita from Pattani said her younger brother who died in the Santika fire always carried his ID card and 10,000 baht in cash with him, but both were missing.

Patthida Phosri, who lost her husband Arthithep, said she had first seen the body of her husband wearing a gold necklace weighing five-baht and two gold-framed amulets, but the valuables later disappeared.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1356...of-flouting-law

Edited January 3, 2009 by sriracha john

[oevna]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

Not sure about this, the smoke rises so... However, my mistake.. Seems sparklers are made from magnesium, not sulphur.

Wonder of the magnesium fumes contributed to the possible flash over.

Yes, please allow my lay speculation on this .

From the Wikipeadia

"Water should not be used to extinguish magnesium fires, because it can produce hydrogen which will feed the fire, .."

Smoke fumes are already burnt, and are therefore not very flammable. Unless there were still-glowing embers floating up in the air, all the way to the second floor where the fire reportedly started, the sparlkler fumes didn't contribute to the fire. Video footage from moments before the fire -- which show the sparklers being lit -- does not support the theory that the sparklers caused the fire in this manner. I am not an expert on pyrotechnics (although Chemistry was my subject in university), but the sparklers that were thrown out to the crowd to be lit at the first moment of the new year have a very low likelihood of being the cause of the fire in my opinion, as unwise as it was to light sparklers indoors. It is much more likely that the indoor fireworks display on the second floor ignited nearby foam soundproofing material, or possibly fireworks launched from surrounding buildings ignited plastic tarps on the roof of Santika. This is all speculation right now as some eyewitness reports that have leaked conflict each other, and the police investigation has yet to be completed.

[Samuian]

It is a technicality for some experts to find out the cause, but primarily those responsible should be brought to justice - operating 4 years without a proper license would mean this place shouldn't be open in the first place so this tragedy would never happened!

Owner, proprietors and the lawenforcement.....

[Hawkup2000]

I was there alone and didn´t have to much fun so at twelve I headed outside hoping to see some fireworks and call my friends to say Happy New years.

I would like to confirm some things:

-There were sparklers not fireworks/rockets (the ones I have see used indoors back in farangland many times).

-There were not a lot of sparklers.

-The sealing was very high up, in my mind, almost impossible to trow a sparkle that high.

-Yes there were fireworks outside but I didn´t see if any landed on the roof of the club.

[StevieH]

I feel some people are missing a big point here. we have posters talking about making things right to save face, to give Thailand a good face to others, how about Thailand does the right thing simply because that's the right thing to do, not just to save face or restore face, or for political brownie points. How about Thais start caring about others and the fact that peoples actions normally affect other people. I lose count of the times that I am driving and have to avoid a certain accident because some blurt in a pick up wants to save 5 seconds or because some bus driver can not be bothered to be in the right lane, or because some idiot on a bike expects me to avoid their poor manoeuvre. Thais have a very selfish attitude on the whole and very rarely think about consequence. its as though the part of the brain that thinks about the dangers is missing.

we hear this save face thing all the time whilst in all honesty the poor level of safety in this country is is not only to do with corruption but also to do with the average Thais mentality.

Forget face Thailand, just do the right thing. stop accepting corruption, stop being selfish and stop accepting excuses from people who constantly fail you.

sadly nothing will change (lets hope nobody no tries to lower themselves with the 'don't live here then' mantra)

since i've been in thailand i have had a lot of trouble marrying the loss of face / abdication of personal responsibility thing to the buddhist mentality.

[aromsia]

news and comment about this tragedy is all over the worlds press , especially the asian press.

the fact that thailands precious image is in danger of being tarnished even further is the one thing that will spur the authorities to take some action.

thailands international image is everything to them and hopefully the international press will follow up developments , or non developments , and keep this story in the news.

only then will the authorities take action against those that are responsible for the state of affairs that led to this tragedy.

the thong lor police , the courts and the owners should all be brought to book over this.

if this government has any balls then it will take them on , but with "vested interests" spreading like a cancer through all sections of thai society , it will be difficult for real action to be taken. if it takes 5 years for the courts to sort out a licence for one club , just how long will it take to gather concrete evidence and prosecute the powerful officials who ultimately are responsible for the state of affairs that leads to events like this taking place.

compromise , forgiveness , mutual backscratching , favours and cosmetic adjustments are the way things are handled here.

it will take a complete overhaul of the way power is wielded here before public interest is considered more important than the interests of all the nasty little fiefdoms that control society here.

to those that say this tragedy is not about politics , i would say you are taking a very blinkered view , and a very thai view of it.

the sort of view you get with your head deep in the sand , under the carpet , and dare i say it , up your a-se.

Well said. But other people have different agendas as we know..that's why they like to stick to condolences. As for the Chinese benevolence ($500,000) for the victims, I find that interesting. My guess is that people still remember the exploding "Chinese" teargas cannisters.

If the fireworks were faulty - and remember, TIT - a benign "culprit" may well be sought to neatly tie things up a week or two from now... and if the fireworks are frm "China" well that country could face yet more criticism of its products (justified or not) at a time when it really doesn't need or want that.

[aromsia]

It is a technicality for some experts to find out the cause, but primarily those responsible should be brought to justice - operating 4 years without a proper license would mean this place shouldn't be open in the first place so this tragedy would never happened!

Owner, proprietors and the lawenforcement.....

The police come under the control of the Interior Ministry. The latter has announced it will pay the medical costs of the survivors...No culpability admitted...(in the UK, they call this sort of thing "ex-gratia payments" as I recall..)

[HorseDoctor]

JUst viewing the footage of all the sparklers- wonder if the sulphur fumes collecting at the ceiling acted as accelerant or even ignition?

Sulphur fumes are heavier than air so no to this theory.

Not sure about this, the smoke rises so... However, my mistake.. Seems sparklers are made from magnesium, not sulphur.

Wonder of the magnesium fumes contributed to the possible flash over.

Yes, please allow my lay speculation on this .

From the Wikipeadia

"Water should not be used to extinguish magnesium fires, because it can produce hydrogen which will feed the fire, .."

Smoke fumes are already burnt, and are therefore not very flammable. Unless there were still-glowing embers floating up in the air, all the way to the second floor where the fire reportedly started, the sparlkler fumes didn't contribute to the fire. Video footage from moments before the fire -- which show the sparklers being lit -- does not support the theory that the sparklers caused the fire in this manner. I am not an expert on pyrotechnics (although Chemistry was my subject in university), but the sparklers that were thrown out to the crowd to be lit at the first moment of the new year have a very low likelihood of being the cause of the fire in my opinion, as unwise as it was to light sparklers indoors. It is much more likely that the indoor fireworks display on the second floor ignited nearby foam soundproofing material, or possibly fireworks launched from surrounding buildings ignited plastic tarps on the roof of Santika. This is all speculation right now as some eyewitness reports that have leaked conflict each other, and the police investigation has yet to be completed.

Agreed , specualtion. BUT ,

fumes from sparklers and other firworks are not wholly innocuous - from http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/92..._fireworks.html

"....Smoke from fireworks combustion may contain a mixture of sulfur-coal compounds, traces of heavy metals, and other toxic chemicals or gases. The combustion cloud can contain harmful fumes such as ozone, sulfur dioxide and nitric oxide..."

This makes sense, all testimony has the fire starting at the ceiling.

Let us just consider the possibility the building materials /soundproofing foam were safe and it was fumes from the fireworks that ignited ? Someone used a class b extinguisher , or water and that produced hydrogen from the magnesium ?? ... more testimony has the fire spreading unbelievable quickly .

As an aside about fireworks .. from same source ... Maybe why China is giving funds?

"Many fireworks are imported from China which is scary because they have a proven track record of cutting corners by using cheaper, more toxic materials. Some of the metals also have radioactive isotopes... hopefully they aren't being used in any fireworks. The American Fireworks Standards Laboratory (AFSL) has established a testing and certification program for Chinese and U.S. fireworks to determine if they are being produced according to AFSL Standards (which meet all U.S. federal requirements). There is a list of prohibited toxic chemicals in the standards but unfortunately participation in the program is voluntary for manufacturers and importers. Firework shipments that pass standards only assure that one random sample from the lot has been tested and met all requirements [2]. Will you trust the quality of your air to China?? "

Edited January 3, 2009 by HorseDoctor

[steffi]

I see a number of sources have found the club owners picture from that Honda racing event and it's being plastered on all the front pages now. He won't be able to stay hidden for much longer.

Edited January 3, 2009 by steffi

[Journalist]

the fact that thailands precious image is in danger of being tarnished even further is the one thing that will spur the authorities to take some action.

thailands international image is everything to them and hopefully the international press will follow up developments , or non developments , and keep this story in the news.

Sorry, I don't agree that image is everything to the Thai authorities. Its sense of pride is paper thin.

If it was, then Patpong, Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy would have been shut down years ago. Chronic breaches of copyright via fakery of goods would have been stopped, as would disregard of common sense safety measures, minor tourist shakedowns prevented and tourist murders by police dealt with harshly, its women perceived abroad as potential marriage chattels - an internationally tradable sub-species among obese westerners.

...and lets not even touch upon the running saga of the airport.

Internationally, Thailand has been a laughing stock for many years. In so many ways it has cast itself n the role of a joke country, and the authorities respond with a shrug of indifference.

[looniethai]

"Blaze nightclub had no licence or safety measures" - From the Telegraph.

The Bangkok nightclub where 59 people died in a fire on New Year’s Eve was only registered as a night-time food stall, had no fire exits and a single fire extinguisher. The Bangkok Post newspaper reported that the Santika nightclub was licensed only as a food shop that was supposed to close at midnight, like thousands of others in Bangkok that sell noodles, Thai curries and other meals in the evening. It was ineligible for a license as an “entertainment venue” because it was not in a designated “entertainment zone”, but had continued trading while an appeal lay dormant in the courts since 2003.

There was reportedly only one fire extinguisher and only the front entrance was known to customers. Staff escaped through an unmarked back entrance while a third door had reportedly been locked to prevent the theft of alcohol. The windows were barred.

It is well known in Bangkok that nightclubs and bars are allowed to operate only if they pay bribes or protection money to the city’s notoriously corrupt police. Army officers, politicians and organized criminals are also believed to control the shadowy scene, where profit margins are increased by a hazy legal status.

In one example of how power, money and at best semi-legal “entertainment” businesses coincide, a candidate in the recent Bangkok gubernatorial elections is famous as a brothel owner and “godfather” figure.

------

When is Thailand going to grow up and act responsibly? The police are corrupt and are motivated by money. The rules are ignored and these people have paid the price.

I used to love being in Thailand but I can't stand the place now. It is all "money, money, money" and "show". Sorry for the negative comments but I am so angry about how important things are just ignored here.