Two Questions/work Permits And Laws

[2711]

I am looking to take a TEFL course in Thailand, and work as an English teacher there. My situation is that I am married to a Thai national but I do not hold a collage degree that will ensure a work permit issued from a school when teaching in Thailand. My question is first, would I be able to secure work papers on a type O multi-entry visa for marriage without a year extension issued by Thai Immigration? Secondly, if that is possible then can I legally work as an English teacher without a work permit issued by the school that I work for in Thailand while being on the type O multi-entry marriage visa?

[astral]

The Non Imm O visa will suit well for your plans.

If you can show 400K baht in the bank you can get a one year extension, otherwise get a multi-entry

while you study TEFL.

Later the Non Imm O visa will allow you to work, but you MUST get a work permit through the school.

If you work without the permit you risk arrest and deportation.

Once you are working you have to show a salary of 40K a month in order to get a one year extension.

I am going to move this to the teaching section where people will be better able to advise you

on the nuances of work permits and teaching.

Good luck

[2711]

OK...

I take it then that a non immigrant O marriage visa (activated in 3 month segments) without extension to 1 year will allow me to work legally as it will qualify me as eligible for work papers since I am married to Thai national. But if I would like to teach English then I can not do it legally without some special other work permit from the school that hires me.

.

I am not planning on running on any other visa besides the multi entry 0 marriage and would like to teach English there.

My catch then is any school possibly willing to issue a work permit for me since I will be attempting to secure work with just a TEFL certficate and no collage degrees to back that with. It seems that without the schools issue of work permit and another type of visa to teach, that I can not legally teach English only having work papers obtained because I am married. And without a collage certificate.

In other words I can't teach English legally in Thailand with work papers only obtained because I am married. ??? The government requires that I have a collage degree to teach English legally. ?

Is there a chance of a school that might issue a work permit for me to teach for them without a collage degree so it is legal?

[2711]

Can someone steer me to a good source for schools looking to hire English teachers in Isaan?

I am interested in finding their job discriptions and requirements for an English teacher.

[TerryLH]

A non O visa will allow you to work, as long as you have a work permit.

You don't get a work permit (or work papers as you called it) just because you are married to a Thai.

Schools do not issue work permits. Only the Labor Office issues work permits. The school will have to apply for a work permit for you. There is quite a bit of paperwork involved.

Some schools will want you to change your visa to a B visa. The problem with that is once the visa is extended, the visa will be cancelled when you quit work. You want a Non O. When you extend it for a year you put as the reason for the extension "To support Thai wife. That way when you quit working the visa remains valid.

Someone posted:

"Once you are working you have to show a salary of 40K a month in order to get a one year extension."

You have to show either 40k income a month (your money) OR 400k in the bank.

You can probably find work with no degree, but you won't be able to get a Teachers Licence, in most places, without one. The most you could hope for would be a temporary TL good for two years. At that time you'd have to show a degree or at least show that you are making a good faith effort to get one. That would be through distance learning or attending a uni here, but not just buying a fake degree.

You don't say where in Issan you'll be living. Some areas have more work than others. Best bet is when you decide where you'll be at, go visit the schools in the area.

Try looking at ajarn.com for job ads.

Good luck. If I did a poor job of explaining this, please keep posting your questions.

[Sisaketmike]

[/size] I am looking to take a TEFL course in Thailand, and work as an English teacher there. My situation is that I am married to a Thai national but I do not hold a collage degree that will ensure a work permit issued from a school when teaching in Thailand. My question is first, would I be able to secure work papers on a type O multi-entry visa for marriage without a year extension issued by Thai Immigration? Secondly, if that is possible then can I legally work as an English teacher without a work permit issued by the school that I work for in Thailand while being on the type O multi-entry marriage visa?

You are looking to take a TEFL? You're allowed to work on a Non-O since 3 years, but you need a work permit. That's not issued by a school ! All provinces have their Labor Department, and YOU have to apply for it, not the school. They can write some needed documents, that they hired you. A work permit is always running with your visa, so if you'd get a job, and lose that, your visa will be canceled within 7 days. It's not true that your salary must be at least 40,000 baht. It doesn't matter, if you're making 25,000 you'll get one too. But you wont get a work permit, because your name must be on the list of the Teacher's Council of Thailand. Pass the Thai culture test, takes 3 days and about 7,000 baht. READ WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WANTS YOU TO DO..Good luck!!!!

Edited January 2, 2009 by Sisaketmike

[skybluestu]

[/size] I am looking to take a TEFL course in Thailand, and work as an English teacher there. My situation is that I am married to a Thai national but I do not hold a collage degree that will ensure a work permit issued from a school when teaching in Thailand. My question is first, would I be able to secure work papers on a type O multi-entry visa for marriage without a year extension issued by Thai Immigration? Secondly, if that is possible then can I legally work as an English teacher without a work permit issued by the school that I work for in Thailand while being on the type O multi-entry marriage visa?

You are looking to take a TEFL? You're allowed to work on a Non-O since 3 years, but you need a work permit. That's not issued by a school ! All provinces have their Labor Department, and YOU have to apply for it, not the school. They can write some needed documents, that they hired you. A work permit is always running with your visa, so if you'd get a job, and lose that, your visa will be canceled within 7 days. It's not true that your salary must be at least 40,000 baht. It doesn't matter, if you're making 25,000 you'll get one too. But you wont get a work permit, because your name must be on the list of the Teacher's Council of Thailand. Pass the Thai culture test, takes 3 days and about 7,000 baht. READ WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WANTS YOU TO DO..Good luck!!!!

I got hired in May 2008 without a degree and haven't taken the Thai Culture test either and I'm not registered with the Teacher's Council. I got a work permit no problem so it seems that, although many people think they know what is required to get a WP, a lot of the advice given isn't actually 100% correct. TIT after all!

[Sisaketmike]

OK...

I take it then that a non immigrant O marriage visa (activated in 3 month segments) without extension to 1 year will allow me to work legally as it will qualify me as eligible for work papers since I am married to Thai national. But if I would like to teach English then I can not do it legally without some special other work permit from the school that hires me.

.

I am not planning on running on any other visa besides the multi entry 0 marriage and would like to teach English there.

My catch then is any school possibly willing to issue a work permit for me since I will be attempting to secure work with just a TEFL certficate and no collage degrees to back that with. It seems that without the schools issue of work permit and another type of visa to teach, that I can not legally teach English only having work papers obtained because I am married. And without a collage certificate.

In other words I can't teach English legally in Thailand with work papers only obtained because I am married. ??? The government requires that I have a collage degree to teach English legally. ?

Is there a chance of a school that might issue a work permit for me to teach for them without a collage degree so it is legal?

[/quo

A school can't issue a work permit for you. Nothing is legal. Working without a work permit is illegal. Kau tchai mai?

[Sisaketmike]

[/size] I am looking to take a TEFL course in Thailand, and work as an English teacher there. My situation is that I am married to a Thai national but I do not hold a collage degree that will ensure a work permit issued from a school when teaching in Thailand. My question is first, would I be able to secure work papers on a type O multi-entry visa for marriage without a year extension issued by Thai Immigration? Secondly, if that is possible then can I legally work as an English teacher without a work permit issued by the school that I work for in Thailand while being on the type O multi-entry marriage visa?

You are looking to take a TEFL? You're allowed to work on a Non-O since 3 years, but you need a work permit. That's not issued by a school ! All provinces have their Labor Department, and YOU have to apply for it, not the school. They can write some needed documents, that they hired you. A work permit is always running with your visa, so if you'd get a job, and lose that, your visa will be canceled within 7 days. It's not true that your salary must be at least 40,000 baht. It doesn't matter, if you're making 25,000 you'll get one too. But you wont get a work permit, because your name must be on the list of the Teacher's Council of Thailand. Pass the Thai culture test, takes 3 days and about 7,000 baht. READ WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WANTS YOU TO DO..Good luck!!!!

I got hired in May 2008 without a degree and haven't taken the Thai Culture test either and I'm not registered with the Teacher's Council. I got a work permit no problem so it seems that, although many people think they know what is required to get a WP, a lot of the advice given isn't actually 100% correct. TIT after all!

Okay, so you started in May 2008 and you're having a work permit. That doesn't mean much. If your visa is running together with your work permit you'll find that out when you do your next visa. The new law started after you became a teacher! They only renew a visa if your name is on their list.

[Loaded]

Okay, so you started in May 2008 and you're having a work permit. That doesn't mean much. If your visa is running together with your work permit you'll find that out when you do your next visa. The new law started after you became a teacher! They only renew a visa if your name is on their list.

I will correct you:

1. There is no new law. There was a proposal from the TCT but it hasn't been implemented.

2. You do not need to be registered with the TCT to obtain a work permit as a teacher.

3. Your employer obtains your work permit for you. You do not obtain your own work permit as a teacher.

4. You only have 7 days to leave the country or obtain a new work permit when you leave your current school if your non-immigrant B or O visa is an extension of the original visa you used to initiate the work permit process. Most schools are understanding and will agree not to inform the Ministry of Labour until you find new employment.

5. You can obtain a work permit without a teacher licence.

6. Two-year 'temporary' licences obtained by paying 500 baht are still available and are an alternative to the 'permanent' licence (although neither are compulsory) that requires attending a Culture Course and either passing the TCT Knowledge Test or attending a 1-year Teaching Knowledge Course costing in excess of 150K baht. From reading many web forums I would say around 1% of 1% of foreign teachers in Thailand are taking the proposal seriously.

My next post responding to one of your posts SisaketMike will be a grammar lesson.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Loaded

[skybluestu]

Okay, so you started in May 2008 and you're having a work permit. That doesn't mean much. If your visa is running together with your work permit you'll find that out when you do your next visa. The new law started after you became a teacher! They only renew a visa if your name is on their list.

I will correct you:

1. There is no new law. There was a proposal from the TCT but it hasn't been implemented.

2. You do not need to be registered with the TCT to obtain a work permit as a teacher.

3. Your employer obtains your work permit for you. You do not obtain your own work permit as a teacher.

4. You only have 7 days to leave the country or obtain a new work permit when you leave your current school if your non-immigrant B or O visa is an extension of the original visa you used to initiate the work permit process. Most schools are understanding and will agree not to inform the Ministry of Labour until you find new employment.

5. You can obtain a work permit without a teacher licence.

6. Two-year 'temporary' licences obtained by paying 500 baht are still available and are an alternative to the 'permanent' licence (although neither are compulsory) that requires attending a Culture Course and either passing the TCT Knowledge Test or attending a 1-year Teaching Knowledge Course costing in excess of 150K baht. From reading many web forums I would say around 1% of 1% of foreign teachers in Thailand are taking the proposal seriously.

My next post responding to one of your posts SisaketMike will be a grammar lesson.

Thanks for confirming the current situation, there are far too many people misinforming people on this website with nonsense and hearsay. If people are not sure that the information/advice they are giving is not correct they should not bother! When I was using this website before I decided to come out here I was forever being told I would not have a chance of getting a teaching job or WP without a Degree but I was offered work at the first x3 places I took my CV to and got a WP easily. I love my life here now and really enjoy teaching and the kids/parents at my school are very happy with their new English Teacher.

[TerryLH]

"4. You only have 7 days to leave the country or obtain a new work permit when you leave your current school if your non-immigrant B or O visa is an extension of the original visa you used to initiate the work permit process. Most schools are understanding and will agree not to inform the Ministry of Labour until you find new employment."

The way it's done now is you do not have 7 days to leave unless you get a 7 day extension for 1900 baht.

With an extended visa, as in the scenario above, you need to leave the country the same day you quit or are fired.

This has been reported a number of times here.

I suspect that not all schools will be so helpful and let you hang around long enough to find a new job.

[2711]

No comment on the disputes but....

As I see it, I can get a TEFL certificate; stay on a multi-entry 0 marriage visa or an extended single o marriage visa and not fuss around with the B type visa so that won't leave me hangin' with 7 days to get out when the job goes under.

Also there is no need for a teachers licence, but I could get a 2 year temporary one if I would like to.

Work permit will come from a school that hires me through the documentation we give to the Thai government and with that permit then I am legal to teach without a degree from a collage!

If I'm crazy let me know.

I have to present a plan of action to the SS department here in the States including the cost of a 4 week course TEFL in Thailand in comparison to the cost here in the States, along with a list of schools, job discriptions, and their requierments to hire me without a collage degree (TEFL certificate only) in an attempt to get financial aid for the 4 week TEFL course.

That will give me the opportunity to live with my wife in Udon Thani, if it goes over well, with chance of having enough income to make the 40k tote for year extensions on an o visa as long as I can show immigration that I pay taxes on teaching income.

Any advice on this is greatfully accepted. It is a critical matter, and I do have to also get the right input on the schools that will hire me with just a TEFL certificate and their criteria.

I'm at a 3 1/2 years point of pains in the arse trying to figure out how to stay in Thailand and how to handle the SSA.

Thanks.

[TerryLH]

"You're allowed to work on a Non-O since 3 years, but you need a work permit."

Actually, it's been much longer than that. I have personal experience since 1995.

-----------------------------------

"Also there is no need for a teachers licence, but I could get a 2 year temporary one if I would like to."

Don't show up thinking that will be the situation everywhere. Some places may require a TL. To get the temporary licence I think they require one years experience. Reports vary a lot, depending where you are. It seems like some provinces are stricter than others.

Also, if you have no other income, you might find it difficult to make 40k a month in Udon.

Are you talking about US Social Security? Are you aware that the domestic and overseas work rules are not the same? In the US they go by how much you earn. Overseas they go by how many hours you work per month.

Too much/many in either situation could lose you $$ benefits.

I suppose difference in the rules make sense to somebody, but...

Good luck with this.

[otherstuff1957]

TIT.

You can expect to be confused by the situation because the situation is confusing! You can find a degreeless teacher making 60K with a WP at one school and teachers with Masters Degrees being fired from their 25K/month jobs at another school because they don't have BEds. (Both of these examples are true BTW!)

If you are polite, well dressed, present yourself well and your employer has some clout at the local government offices, becoming legal will be a walk in the park. If you whine all the time, don't dress well, don't look 'professional' or your school has no influence or your school admin is lukewarm about teaching English anyway, you will probably find that your status will be in limbo for along time before you are either fired or encouraged to work indefinitely on a succession of Tourist Visas.

Good luck!

[markg]

Otherstuff and Loaded make good, sound reading for new teachers coming to Thailand.

Read them and learn, people.

[RoadRash]

Just want to make sure I've got this right. I've taught here for eight years, no degree, but with a TEFL. I still have a teachers licence, valid for three years. So if I go and get an O visa I can then work legally, while studying for a degree? Or will I need a student visa, in which case can I teach?

[2711]

"Are you talking about US Social Security? Are you aware that the domestic and overseas work rules are not the same? In the US they go by how much you earn. Overseas they go by how many hours you work per month.

Too much/many in either situation could lose you $$ benefits.

I suppose difference in the rules make sense to somebody, but..."

Terry, I appreciate your input mak mak...

Yes I am aware, I have been doing nothing but seeking information about the Thai government laws and the US laws for 3 1/2 years. It is allot of painstaking efforts.

Working overseas if you are collecting SSD from the US is only permitted legally as a 45 hour monthly rule. That would give me enough of income to sustain myself and family there.

Right now I am up against the SSA and their work program. In a hard place for sure, if it pans out in my favor i.e. if I can proove that I am no longer able to return to my normal job field and the board approves my case for financial aid for the TEFL overseas then it's a go for me. It is not something they are accustomed to doing but since I have a wife, home and family in Udon it might lean to my favor.

I have to present the TEFL schools requirements and the job availabiities and their requirements for teaching in Thailand (note: without a collage degree) to the vocational department here for my case with them in 10 days.

[TerryLH]

"I've taught here for eight years, no degree, but with a TEFL. I still have a teachers licence, valid for three years."

Is your teachers licence from the Ministry of Education (MOE)?

If it is, it's probably school specific and you'll need a new one for a different school.

If it's from the Teachers Council, I'm not sure about whether it's good all over or not. You should have someone who reads Thai to look at it and see what it says.

[RoadRash]

[is your teachers licence from the Ministry of Education (MOE)?

If it is, it's probably school specific and you'll need a new one for a different school.

If it's from the Teachers Council, I'm not sure about whether it's good all over or not. You should have someone who reads Thai to look at it and see what it says.

It's one of the old style blue books. MOE I assume!!? Doesn't mention the schools name in it.

Edited January 4, 2009 by RoadRash

[TerryLH]

A blue book sounds more like a work permit.

All the TL's I had from the MOE were on A4 paper.

If it's a work permit, it'll say so on the front cover. It will have the name of the school iside, but in Thai.

If it is a TL, where did you get it?

Thanks

[RoadRash]

It's light blue, different from the work permit. It's been updated every second year since I started working for my old school, then the office girl who takes care of WP's and TL's got it updated for me for three years when I left. It does have the schools name in it, sorry was wrong about that, but from what I can see the schools name has been updated every time as well.

Failing the ability to use this license do es anyone know if I can get a WP using a student visa.

[ajarnbrad]

Can my university get my work permit if I come in on a tourist visa?

In the past I've always gone through the trouble and expense of gettting my non-im 'O' visa here in the US before leaving. Last year I worked for the same uni and immigration converted it to non-im 'B' along with getting the work permit.

I don't want to arrive in BKK and find I have to go to outside the country to get a B visa in order to get the work permit.

[Loaded]

Can my university get my work permit if I come in on a tourist visa?

In the past I've always gone through the trouble and expense of gettting my non-im 'O' visa here in the US before leaving. Last year I worked for the same uni and immigration converted it to non-im 'B' along with getting the work permit.

I don't want to arrive in BKK and find I have to go to outside the country to get a B visa in order to get the work permit.

You'll need a non-imm visa to start the work permit process. I have read it's possible to change a tourist to non-imm in Bangkok but know very little about what's required. In Chiang Mai we would send you to Laos to get a non-imm visa if you only have a tourist visa.