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Police May Cut Thaksin's Rank


george

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Oh well, tough break. But hey, he's always got "Doctor" to fall back upon. :)

I have seen anything published concerning his doctorate thesis (subject matter, etc) nor what academics set on his oral exam. With all this business of his having a doctorate degree you would think he/supporters would take the lead of many who publicize this info on a regular basis.

I have always had doubts about Thaksin's doctorate. I note that it was obtained in Texas, cowboy country in more ways than one, home of the Bush family, rednecks and those who removed Kennedy from the scene. Bush Jnr. had pretty bits of paper attesting to his educational prowess but we all know how thick he was/is.

When I think about Pattaya's senseless traffic flow scheme on 2nd Road, the brainchild of a PhD I understand, I have to wonder whether some of these academics ever touch base in terms of reality.

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Additional time line related to royal decorations:

August 2005: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's PM Office decree gives eight criteria for the recalling of royal decorations, including if a person is convicted by the highest court and ordered to serve time in prison.

October 2008: Thaksin's brother-in-law Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's Government Spokesman (and current Red Shirt Leader) Natthawut Saikua announces that ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will likely agree to return all of his royal decorations if required to by law. If Thaksin does not seek a retrial within 30 days (he didn't), the PM's Office must seek royal approval to demand the royal decorations be returned (the then-government did not).

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The deputy PM added that he was not surprised by the move to strip Mr Thaksin's rank as the former PM was guilty as charged and all of his cases had already been finalized.

nntlogo.jpg

-- NNT 28 October 2009

thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255210280015

Oh really - "...all of his cases have already finalized"? The Ratchadapisek land case is just the first of several potential legal cases against T and his family. It was pursued because it was relatively less paperwork and fewer witnesses than most of the other cases. T and his family should be pursued in regard to the billions of baht they cheated from the Thai treasury (and the Thai people). However, those cases, if pursued, will entail an immense amount of time and toil for prosecutors. Trying to uncover truth about a lying family in exile with very deep pockets will be a tough task.

Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama has also warned about tensions if the government insists on stripping the former PM of his honours.

"Thaksin has earned his recognition and royal decorations as a servant of His Majesty," he said, adding that the government was not justified in trying to humiliate Thaksin.

The former PM's punishment over the Ratchadapisek land case was politically motivated, he claimed, and took place after the 2006 coup. So it could not be considered ground for stripping him of his rank and decorations.

Noppadon said Thaksin's case was not about corruption even though the conviction and sentencing was based on the National Anti-Corruption Act. He also pointed out that the rank and decorations given to other convicted military and police officers weren't always revoked.

nationlogo.jpg

-- The Nation 2009/10/29

Interesting insight in to Thai ways of thinking. The logic goes something like this; "Mr. J may have commited a crime while serving as director of XYZ, but he is not longer head of XYZ, so there should be no legal action taken."

Similar sort of logic was presented right after TRT was dissolved, in order to try and shelter TRT members from facing any responsibility for their actions while they were active within TRT. It's also been used to try and shield former Cabinet members when it's been alleged, later, that there were wrongdoings during their tenure.

If Kun Noppadon (T's lawyer) had to base his arguments on common sense, he'd be singing a whole different tune. Instead he's doing what lawyer's get hired to do, namely; twist the facts so bizarrely that there's no trace of reasonableness left.

added note: it appears the current PM has started using the word 'convict' when referencing Mr. T. That's a strong word.

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If Thaksin does not seek a retrial within 30 days (he didn't), the PM's Office must seek royal approval to demand the royal decorations be returned (the then-government did not).

Surely this failure to do so was just an innocent oversight, as his then brother-in-law the then PM was extremely busy, visiting Peru or playing golf & attending karaoke-clubs in Chiang Mai ?

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the PM's Office must seek royal approval to demand the royal decorations be returned (the then-government did not).

Interesting. I always though this was a silly and needless thing to do but if the above is true it will mean the removal request and the amnesty request may both be submitted fairly closely, which is not necessrily bad for the government and also explains why Thaksin supporters are seemingly more upset about it than would be expected.

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Doubtfully.

Or all Thais would have non left for themselves.

65 million individual culture battles daily,

bring someone down a notch and you are raised a notch;

SOP social Thailand. Doubt it, just ask you Thai mate.

LOS = LOG lkand of gosip-queens.

no. that happend only in the way how you see the small world that surrounds you.

you describe yourself. don't use 65 million other people to justify your manner.

You are making assumptions about where I have been and who I know in Thailand.

I am much more well traveled that you imagine.

And you ALWAYS consistently take an adversarial position to all I say.

Tough, dude you can't win them all, especially when your arguments

are based in limited facts and grand assumptions.

And I doubt you have any basis in anthropological study.

Can't shoot the messenger no matter how you may wish too.

Edited by animatic
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Awesome news.

if that all helps that the country moves forward and the overall situation improves than is it just awesome. somehow it must be important, in that direction, otherwise nobody would actually gives a sh*t about, right?

I always though this was a silly and needless thing to do

Interested to know... do you also consider the giving of these honours a silly and needless thing to do?

Right on. If a person thinks there is no significance to such accolades, then that person won't give a hoot whether they stay stapled to someone's starched jacket.

However, I presume (the de-frocking) is big news for most Thais, as they probably attach significance to such honors bestowed by the King.

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I always though this was a silly and needless thing to do

Interested to know... do you also consider the giving of these honours a silly and needless thing to do?

You should put the quote back in with the rest of my comment.

My point being that Thakisn supporters will be more riled by this. It isnt going to lose him support as his opponents will just see it as government interference. His enemies may enjoy it. Most people will wish it were not in the news. All imho. As much as I have little time for the extra-judicial one, I see little point in riling his supporters more (and Abhisit in his comments seems to be sensitive to this too). It has nothing to do with the bestowing of honours which of course are very much an honour in the true meaning of the word. Have the awards, honours and ranks been removed form Lt. Gen Chalor, the imprisoned election commisioners etc

Anyway put it back with the rest of my comment whihc is about the poltics surrounding it all.

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Ph.D, Criminal Justice, Sam Houston State Univ. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra That's a good program, near where Texans are executed.

Yes that search shows 1979 as he receiving his degree and does list his doctoral thesis. It also has notes he4 made a return visit with Thai cabinet members to Sam Houston State as a invited guest. He pledged to make a monetary grant/support to the school as per his mentor. Wonder how much and when this donation took place?

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I always though this was a silly and needless thing to do but if the above is true it will mean the removal request and the amnesty request may both be submitted fairly closely, which is not necessrily bad for the government and also explains why Thaksin supporters are seemingly more upset about it than would be expected.

Interested to know... do you also consider the giving of these honours a silly and needless thing to do?

You should put the quote back in with the rest of my comment.

My point being that Thakisn supporters will be more riled by this. It isnt going to lose him support as his opponents will just see it as government interference. His enemies may enjoy it. Most people will wish it were not in the news. All imho. As much as I have little time for the extra-judicial one, I see little point in riling his supporters more (and Abhisit in his comments seems to be sensitive to this too). It has nothing to do with the bestowing of honours which of course are very much an honour in the true meaning of the word. Have the awards, honours and ranks been removed form Lt. Gen Chalor, the imprisoned election commisioners etc

Anyway put it back with the rest of my comment whihc is about the poltics surrounding it all.

My apologies for not quoting your entire thought.

I appreciate what you are saying about unnecessarily ruffling feathers, but my feeling is that laws and protocols are there to be followed, not applied dependant on public opinion, or the opinion of one minority group for that matter.

As with the returning of Thaksin's diplomatic passport, if the law states that he must return these accolades, then return them he must, and if that upsets a few "red shirts" then so be it.

Edited by rixalex
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It took the government long enuff to finally take this action. Several reasons have been presented for the lapsed time but as you pointed out, this is a double whammy to Thaksin because it dovetails with the pardon request which we know will be denied regardless of whether sooner or later.

Thaksin's legal problems and obstacles continue to be piled on, which is fine because it's clear the only way to rid Thailand of the guy and the direct impact of his wicked schemes is to bury him in legalities and the threat of even further legalities in still pending cases.

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It took the government long enuff to finally take this action. Several reasons have been presented for the lapsed time but as you pointed out, this is a double whammy to Thaksin because it dovetails with the pardon request which we know will be denied regardless of whether sooner or later.

Thaksin's legal problems and obstacles continue to be piled on, which is fine because it's clear the only way to rid Thailand of the guy and the direct impact of his wicked schemes is to bury him in legalities and the threat of even further legalities in still pending cases.

So it will all end up like the case in Bleak House :)

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Awesome news.

if that all helps that the country moves forward and the overall situation improves than is it just awesome. somehow it must be important, in that direction, otherwise nobody would actually gives a sh*t about, right?

If a person thinks there is no significance to such accolades, then that person won't give a hoot whether they stay stapled to someone's starched jacket.

However, I presume (the de-frocking) is big news for most Thais, as they probably attach significance to such honors bestowed by the King.

the question is, isn't that just a propaganda show for the masses? or just only a happy schadenfreude pill for the hate mob?

how this can probably help in terms of reconciliation?

will the country now move faster on and everything is getting better just because Thaksin isn't anymore entitled to wear a fancy uniform?

it is spectacular for drama queens on the two extrem ends of the problem.

check relation, relevance and reality.

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the question is, isn't that just a propaganda show for the masses? or just only a happy schadenfreude pill for the hate mob?

how this can probably help in terms of reconciliation?

will the country now move faster on and everything is getting better just because Thaksin isn't anymore entitled to wear a fancy uniform?

it is spectacular for drama queens on the two extrem ends of the problem.

check relation, relevance and reality.

Idon't believe it is actually a propaganda show for anybody. The fact is that Thaksin Shinawatra has, by his actions, brought shame and disgrace upon himself. It is indeed timely but the man himself has been working overtime on his seditious mission to destabilize any government in this country not run by him or his cronies for their financial benefit.

These honors, once bestowed upon him by the highest authority, and in good faith, have been rescinded in the same way that an Olympic athlete who has won a medal and then been found guilty of drug abuse would be required to return his medal.

Sadly, for his adoring fans and devotees, there is no way he will ever be allowed to govern this Kingdom again.

A convicted criminal, as P.M. ?

Surely Thailand will be able to do better than that. IMHO of course.

Some of his medals and honors are awesome too.

Edited by ratcatcher
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The only way Thaksin could ever return to government would be as a shamelessly absolute dictator, which would be an easy and comfortable development for him. Such a catastrophic turn of events would set new lows of tyrannical rule in the crescent that is East Asia/SE Asia/South Asia. He, Hun Sen and the generals of Burma would be a troika to behold in their complete disregard and brutality against citizens.

Neither Thaksin nor his boosters would care if he could pull off bribing enough of the army to install him. Thaksin would find facile ways to continue to call himself a democrat. The coup generals persuaded a good number of Thais they were acting in the interests of democracy. So the wheel keeps turning on the energy and force of its own inertia.

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gallery2.jpg

Additional time line related to royal decorations:

August 2005: Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's PM Office decree gives eight criteria for the recalling of royal decorations, including if a person is convicted by the highest court and ordered to serve time in prison.

October 2008: Thaksin's brother-in-law Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat's Government Spokesman (and current Red Shirt Leader) Natthawut Saikua announces that ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will likely agree to return all of his royal decorations if required to by law. If Thaksin does not seek a retrial within 30 days (he didn't), the PM's Office must seek royal approval to demand the royal decorations be returned (the then-government did not).

And now 13 months after not living up to his pledge to return the decorations voluntarily, action to do so involuntarily is progressing.

Thaksin´s 10 royal decorations recalled

BANGKOK, 30 October 2009 (NNT) - The Secretariat of the Cabinet and the National Police Bureau are in the process of stripping 10 royal decorations and police ranks from former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Cabinet Secretary-General, Surachai Pooprasert stated that the overall procedures would take a short time to complete. Once the Cabinet Secretariate examines all related details, the issue would be submitted to the Prime Minister for approval and to the Office of His Majesty's Principal for further consideration at the final stage.

The royal decorations to be recalled include Member (Fifth Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Companion (Fourth Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Companion (Fourth Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Commander (Third Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Knight Grand Cross (First Class) of the Most Admirable Order of the Direkgunabhorn, Knight Commander (Second Class, lower grade) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chula Chom Klao and Boy Scout Citation Medal (First Class).

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255210300041

Edited by KHarrelson
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The only way Thaksin could ever return to government would be as a shamelessly absolute dictator, which would be an easy and comfortable development for him. Such a catastrophic turn of events would set new lows of tyrannical rule in the crescent that is East Asia/SE Asia/South Asia. He, Hun Sen and the generals of Burma would be a troika to behold in their complete disregard and brutality against citizens.

Neither Thaksin nor his boosters would care if he could pull off bribing enough of the army to install him. Thaksin would find facile ways to continue to call himself a democrat. The coup generals persuaded a good number of Thais they were acting in the interests of democracy. So the wheel keeps turning on the energy and force of its own inertia.

That goes to the heart of why heaven and hel_l will be moved to not let him have

enough cash to buy the army and take absolute control via that route.

They likely fact he has left a amateurish paper trail for much of his fortune,

and many deals, may go a long way to this end.

Why amaturish,

well partly from his hubris, shown for all at he dear wifes fall for,

an inept and amturish attempt to hide finances, for which she,

and her brother, and Secretary have been convicted.

The family really thought just a cursory dodging of law would suffice,

since they were so all powerful, and this attitude appears to have been endemic.

Things are surprisingly QUIET about the bt76billion. case, which should be finalized this month.

And I think that is completely to keep Thaksin and his the redshirts guessing till the last seconds.

Still lets hope most international meetings and such are finished up, and local issues are on the table

primarily, when this does start getting more press.

That IS enough money to buy enough of the army and police to take absolute control,

using extensive violence. How motivated he is for complete revenge is anybody's guess,

but if he has become delusional about his abilities and future, we might have a rough ride

should a significant amount of cash be returned, but not all.....

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The only way Thaksin could ever return to government would be as a shamelessly absolute dictator, which would be an easy and comfortable development for him. Such a catastrophic turn of events would set new lows of tyrannical rule in the crescent that is East Asia/SE Asia/South Asia. He, Hun Sen and the generals of Burma would be a troika to behold in their complete disregard and brutality against citizens.

Neither Thaksin nor his boosters would care if he could pull off bribing enough of the army to install him. Thaksin would find facile ways to continue to call himself a democrat. The coup generals persuaded a good number of Thais they were acting in the interests of democracy. So the wheel keeps turning on the energy and force of its own inertia.

That goes to the heart of why heaven and hel_l will be moved to not let him have

enough cash to buy the army and take absolute control via that route.

They likely fact he has left a amateurish paper trail for much of his fortune,

and many deals, may go a long way to this end.

Why amaturish,

well partly from his hubris, shown for all at he dear wifes fall for,

an inept and amturish attempt to hide finances, for which she,

and her brother, and Secretary have been convicted.

The family really thought just a cursory dodging of law would suffice,

since they were so all powerful, and this attitude appears to have been endemic.

Things are surprisingly QUIET about the bt76billion. case, which should be finalized this month.

And I think that is completely to keep Thaksin and his the redshirts guessing till the last seconds.

Still lets hope most international meetings and such are finished up, and local issues are on the table

primarily, when this does start getting more press.

That IS enough money to buy enough of the army and police to take absolute control,

using extensive violence. How motivated he is for complete revenge is anybody's guess,

but if he has become delusional about his abilities and future, we might have a rough ride

should a significant amount of cash be returned, but not all.....

Seeking Prime Real Estate--Successful tycoon CEO with significant government experience at the highest level and who already owns an island is presently seeking fertile real estate on the Indo-China Peninsula. Must contain 513,115 sq km of land, at least one large metropolis and must be well situated to access the Gulf of Thailand, the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean. No border insurgencies can exist at the time of purchase. Property must have a large exploitable peasant population, preferably situated in one geographic region, subserviant mass media, military forces, police, courts and alien foreign residents/farang spouses. Prospective buyer is determined to posess so price is no obstacle.

Contact +66 6660666.666. Ask for Jatuporn or Chavalit.

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The royal decorations to be recalled include Member (Fifth Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Companion (Fourth Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Companion (Fourth Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Commander (Third Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Knight Grand Cross (First Class) of the Most Admirable Order of the Direkgunabhorn, Knight Commander (Second Class, lower grade) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chula Chom Klao and Boy Scout Citation Medal (First Class).

Shades of Field Marshal The Right Honourable Idi Amin VC, Ph.D, Esquire. :)

Old Square face has more medals than Audie Murphy yet has never been in harm's way. Who says that crime doesn't pay?

I'm really impressed that he is the holder of the Boy Scout Citation Medal (First Class). Wow! I assume that this was bestowed because he always had shiny shoes, helped old ladies to cross the road or he had learned to rub two sticks together to make a camp fire. Is the unlovely Potjaman the holder of the equivalent Girl Guide medal?

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The royal decorations to be recalled include Member (Fifth Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Companion (Fourth Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Companion (Fourth Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Commander (Third Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Noble Order of the Crown of Thailand, Knight Grand Cordon (Special Class) of the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Knight Grand Cross (First Class) of the Most Admirable Order of the Direkgunabhorn, Knight Commander (Second Class, lower grade) of the Most Illustrious Order of Chula Chom Klao and Boy Scout Citation Medal (First Class).

Shades of Field Marshal The Right Honourable Idi Amin VC, Ph.D, Esquire. :)

Old Square face has more medals than Audie Murphy yet has never been in harm's way. Who says that crime doesn't pay?

I'm really impressed that he is the holder of the Boy Scout Citation Medal (First Class). Wow! I assume that this was bestowed because he always had shiny shoes, helped old ladies to cross the road or he had learned to rub two sticks together to make a camp fire. Is the unlovely Potjaman the holder of the equivalent Girl Guide medal?

Latest quote from Thaksin, "they would kill me if they could. They can take all my medals, what do I care, but pleeeeease please, don't take my Boy Scout Citation medal. All my enemies are politicizing the courts to torture me, but they all know that I have always been untainted by thoughts of politicizing the courts or any other institutions."

(Ok, he really didn't say that, as he doesn't have a handle on putting coherent sentences together.)

He may need his Boy Scout skills when he realizes the island he bought off Montenegro doesn't have any water, food or power source - and his checks don't clear at the convenience shop at the mainland. I hope he got the merit badge for 'finding food in a barren environment.'

Closer to reality: I just drove up a long holy (full of holes) dirt road to visit some extended family who subsist in a Lisu village perched on a muddy hillside. We've all seen such villages, at least in photos, but the up-close reality is sobering. It's 180 degree opposite of Thaksin family and the other 0.5% of Thailand's super rich who don't give a rat's ass for the undocumented masses who have resided within Thailand's borders for generations. Example of (barely) living conditions: four families sharing a small plastic tub sitting outdoors - that was their communal shower/cleaning facility. The only houses which weren't cinder block and thatched roof were those which had daughters who worked in places like Pattaya and Phuket.

There's been a lot of talk about T giving money to pu yai ban (headmen) of villages in Issan which got out (and paid for) the vote for T and the TRT and it's incarnations - but no money trickled down to the hundreds of thousands of hill tribers within the fringes of Thailand's borders. Why? because they can't vote, so essentially they're of no importance to the power brokers in Bangkok - except their daughters are useful for a few years. Oh, and the hill tribe boys might be useful if a war broke out, or for digging ditches/hauling cement by hand on construction projects.

Edited by brahmburgers
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I'll tell you who cares. He cares! It is another reminder to him that each time he chips away at the other side, they can respond and this time strip away some last vestiges of public dignity and status. Since he is a criminal there's really no problem is there?

Edited by walkup
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<SNIP>

In October, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Police Office Holders sentenced Thaksin to two years in jail in connection to the Ratchadaphisek land scandal. Thaksin's then-wife Pojaman successfully bid for a coveted plot of plot of land but the price she paid was lower than the market rate. The ex-premier did not appeal the verdict, but claimed it was politically motivated.

Source: The Nation - 09 January 2009

[off topic]

Oh hello.

The land was valued at 700m, and all the bids were over that amount. Had their been evidence that the land was acquired for a less than market price, the courts would have been duty bound to unwind the deal or confiscate it. They didn't. In fact the only fishy price in the whole sorry saga was the inflated 2.14 billion that the FIDF paid the Erawan Trust for it given that the Trust itself had only paid 103 million.

So either the paper's just practising inordinately amateurish journalism, or it's part of their recent spate of make-Thaksin-look-bad-and-don't-worry-if-you-twist-the-occasional-fact-for-the-good-of-the-country articles.

It's a tough call where The Nation's concerned.

[/off topic]

Off topic-

It's a tough call all right. Since Bangkok Post articles have been banned from republishing at Bangkok Post's insistence, the quality of referenced articles in TV has steadily declined. Sunday's front page article from the Vancouver newspaper was a pleasure to read, both in content and articulate writing..... When is the Nation going to learn it employ's third rate journalists!

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  • 7 months later...

Police Commission to decide on request for Thaksin's police rank revocation

The police personnel commissioner has requested the Police Commission to decide whether former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's police rank of lieutenant-colonel could be revoked.

Pol Lt Gen Natthapit Sanitwong, commissioner of the Police Personnel Bureau, said his agency had to pass on the matter to the Police Commission for making a final decision because Pheu Thai MPs were opposed to the revocation on ground that Thaksin is not active officer.

The bureau was asked to consider revoking Thaksin's police rank after he was guilty of abusing authority and given a jail term.

The Nation

June 10, 2010

Police Commission to decide on request for Thaksin's police rank revocation

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Police Commission to decide on request for Thaksin's police rank revocation

The police personnel commissioner has requested the Police Commission to decide whether former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's police rank of lieutenant-colonel could be revoked.

Pol Lt Gen Natthapit Sanitwong, commissioner of the Police Personnel Bureau, said his agency had to pass on the matter to the Police Commission for making a final decision because Pheu Thai MPs were opposed to the revocation on ground that Thaksin is not active officer.

The bureau was asked to consider revoking Thaksin's police rank after he was guilty of abusing authority and given a jail term.

The Nation

June 10, 2010

Police Commission to decide on request for Thaksin's police rank revocation

I didn't realize the Royal Thai Police allowed criminals within it's ranks. Call me naive. :):D

Edited by ratcatcher
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