Education Ministry To Hire 13,000 Administrative Officers

[mrtoad]

Hey.

How about training/employing more teachers...................

That would have been a better idea, but just like in other countries, administration posts are the gravy train - so those that work at the coal face always get the raw deal.

[TPI]

Many thanks for the info, I didn't realise that it was like that.

FF

I can understand, it is hard to believe. Some stories I could tell you are just insanity, you wouldn't believe that adults could behave this way.

I'd be interested to hear if other folk have had the same experience, or if my colleagues and I have been especially unlucky?

I spent 3 years teaching in a government secondary school. I was lucky as the school had a very efficient printing shop...I asked for and had printed request forms in English...this meant that I could order directly from the print shop for bulk printing and the staff were only too happy to ensure that my order was completed on time

Photocopying was a whole new story as most of the admin staff didn't know what made the copiers tick, if the machines broke down or jammed, a fairly normal occurance as the paper was always the cheapest, I was the only person who knew how to get them going again...it seems that the junior person who had always done the copying for the admin staff had left to be married and never returned!

It was beneath everybody's dignity, in admin at least, to lower themselves with common toil....they spent most of their time either on the phone or preparing and eating lunch. All the time dressed as if they were about to be invited to a Hi-So "garden party"!

You're right with your comment that they don't give a "rats" about the school, the teachers or the pupils!

[dseawarrior]

This move will seriously increase the work of teachers...

Please enlighten me as to how this will increase the work of teachers? or am i just being stupid?

FF

Admin staff are almost always friends or relatives of deans and senior teachers, they do no work at all and cannot be sacked / questioned. They permanently obstruct teachers by avoiding their responsibilities, lying and generally getting in the way of a properly functioning institution. You may find these words harsh, but there are so many examples...

Schools / unis do NOT lack admin staff, they lack skilled and / or motivated admin staff. Adding more from the pool of locally unemployed people will mean that these new employees will at least have to be seen to do something, so they will be given tasks, which they won't do... for example;-

All schools unis have somebody to do the photocopying, but all teachers know to do it themselves to make sure it's done on time and correctly. This task could be one that is forced away from the teachers and given to the admin, who won't do it. The first twenty minutes of the lesson will then be spent by the teacher doing it, or more likely, the teacher's are too embarrassed to either confront the admin workers or be seen to be doing their work, so the students will just have to suffer...

The uni I'm based at has a shockingly poor admin department (this is normal across the country I'm reliably told by experienced Thai teachers and also supports my own observations across half a dozen unis I've worked / guested at) that all the Thai teachers and myself hate being involved with at any time for any reason. Lots of them sitting down together doing very little, but always too busy to help... but they often fit in the middle of a chain; sitting and blocking, avoiding work, lying when asked, doing nothing, building workloads for others - the teachers.

It shouldn't be that way, it doesn't have to be that way, but it is this way.

EXCELLENT POST!!!

My experience in my 6 years of knowing Thailand and 2 years of working in Thai schools confirms this general phenomenon...

First, like most countries worldwide, teachers are horribly underpaid and the admins often make 2 or 3 times the teachers salary... So the gravy train theory seems robust...

Keep in mind that most Thai teachers are only making about 6 to 8,000 Baht a month! Think of also trying to teach huge classes (of up to 50 kids per classroom) and it boggles the mind... If that is not slavery, I do not know what is...

Thailand has a hierarchical culture where teachers are low in the hierarchy... Admins are a bit like slave owners (sure they are nice and all -- smile well and dress well) -- but the real work is done by the "slaves" (teachers) or not at all...

At my last gig of teaching at the #1 public Thai university -- you can figure out what Uni I mean -- I found the former Dean of the School of Education to be terribly lazy with just average office tasks -- like taking phone calls or answering emails (which he NEVER did!) -- instead he delegated those tasks to his secretary... He was "too busy" to do that kind of work...

Also, it was frequent that one would have to wait an hour or MORE -- while a committee of 5 or 6 people (not just little ole me) -- would have to wait for the "dean" to arrive... The Thai ajarn would sigh and laugh and be patient with this dean... But if he conducted himself like this at an American or European Uni he would have been justifiably fired... Luckily for that Uni and its School of Education, he has been voted out from being Dean...

Just a few observations from someone who has been there...

[endure]

This move will seriously increase the work of teachers...

Please enlighten me as to how this will increase the work of teachers? or am i just being stupid?

FF

Admin staff are almost always friends or relatives of deans and senior teachers, they do no work at all and cannot be sacked / questioned. They permanently obstruct teachers by avoiding their responsibilities, lying and generally getting in the way of a properly functioning institution. You may find these words harsh, but there are so many examples...

Schools / unis do NOT lack admin staff, they lack skilled and / or motivated admin staff. Adding more from the pool of locally unemployed people will mean that these new employees will at least have to be seen to do something, so they will be given tasks, which they won't do... for example;-

All schools unis have somebody to do the photocopying, but all teachers know to do it themselves to make sure it's done on time and correctly. This task could be one that is forced away from the teachers and given to the admin, who won't do it. The first twenty minutes of the lesson will then be spent by the teacher doing it, or more likely, the teacher's are too embarrassed to either confront the admin workers or be seen to be doing their work, so the students will just have to suffer...

The uni I'm based at has a shockingly poor admin department (this is normal across the country I'm reliably told by experienced Thai teachers and also supports my own observations across half a dozen unis I've worked / guested at) that all the Thai teachers and myself hate being involved with at any time for any reason. Lots of them sitting down together doing very little, but always too busy to help... but they often fit in the middle of a chain; sitting and blocking, avoiding work, lying when asked, doing nothing, building workloads for others - the teachers.

It shouldn't be that way, it doesn't have to be that way, but it is this way.

EXCELLENT POST!!!

My experience in my 6 years of knowing Thailand and 2 years of working in Thai schools confirms this general phenomenon...

First, like most countries worldwide, teachers are horribly underpaid and the admins often make 2 or 3 times the teachers salary... So the gravy train theory seems robust...

Keep in mind that most Thai teachers are only making about 6 to 8,000 Baht a month! Think of also trying to teach huge classes (of up to 50 kids per classroom) and it boggles the mind... If that is not slavery, I do not know what is...

Thailand has a hierarchical culture where teachers are low in the hierarchy... Admins are a bit like slave owners (sure they are nice and all -- smile well and dress well) -- but the real work is done by the "slaves" (teachers) or not at all...

At my last gig of teaching at the #1 public Thai university -- you can figure out what Uni I mean -- I found the former Dean of the School of Education to be terribly lazy with just average office tasks -- like taking phone calls or answering emails (which he NEVER did!) -- instead he delegated those tasks to his secretary... He was "too busy" to do that kind of work...

Also, it was frequent that one would have to wait an hour or MORE -- while a committee of 5 or 6 people (not just little ole me) -- would have to wait for the "dean" to arrive... The Thai ajarn would sigh and laugh and be patient with this dean... But if he conducted himself like this at an American or European Uni he would have been justifiably fired... Luckily for that Uni and its School of Education, he has been voted out from being Dean...

Just a few observations from someone who has been there...

Thailand has a hierarchical culture where teachers are exceptionally high in the hierarchy. The hierarchy in Thailand is not structured around salary or the completion of menial office tasks.

[DaleBlue]

Education Ministry to hire 13,000 administrative officers

"Hiring administrative officers will also reduce unemployment rate in the country," Jurin said.

-- The Nation 2009-01-16

Most of these 13,000 admin officers will have nothing to do but wait for month end sales at Central. On top of that, they will get another 2,000 Baht per month from Mark V govt. That's the way to make public sector competitive.

Most of the admin staff are woman from poor family. Keeping them in scholl doing nothing is better than subjecting them to prositition in Bangkok street or sold them as slave in the rich Bangkok houses. This is a very noble idea by Mark. Keep it up.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, this suggested govt. plan- if it is ever even attempted - is for clerks, not administrative leaders. They may promote a few clerks to chief clerks, but not DIRECTOR positions. Ajarns are respected, but not paid very well. It depends if they are tenured govt. officers; I worked with ajarns in matayom schools that made 16K to 32K, years ago. But the teachers are overworked, underpaid, and woefully mis-trained.

[jasreeve17]

Yes, this suggested govt. plan- if it is ever even attempted - is for clerks, not administrative leaders. They may promote a few clerks to chief clerks, but not DIRECTOR positions. Ajarns are respected, but not paid very well. It depends if they are tenured govt. officers; I worked with ajarns in matayom schools that made 16K to 32K, years ago. But the teachers are overworked, underpaid, and woefully mis-trained.

We could address the basic matter PB - is there a need for more admin staff? The answer, I'd offer up, is no - there's more than enough of the little mites, but they just don't do anything. If you did one of those work type tests; you know when somebody with a watch, pen and paper follows you around all day, then some of my admin would be up for a world record because I doubt that they've done a single task in several years... (a tiny bit tongue in cheek)

Motivation, solid work ethic, solid work practices, direction / management from above, etc are the way to go, me thinks.

I checked back on this thread thinking that my initial comments may have been a tad harsh, and wanted to check other members experiences. It's sad that we tend to have a common line.

[HagenvonTronje]

Minister of Education confident government budget cutbacks will not affect free education scheme

BANGKOK, 6 May 2009 (NNT) - The Ministry of Education expresses confidence that budget cuts for the ministry will not affect the 15-year free education program.

Minister of Education Jurin Laksanawisit said after a Cabinet meeting today (May 6) that the Cabinet had considered total government budget allocation for the 2010 fiscal year and the Ministry of Education would receive 345.8 billion baht in budget for the upcoming fiscal year, a reduction of 4.8 billion baht when compared with the 2009 fiscal year.

The minister said that his ministry received the highest budget allocation of any ministry, accounting for about 20 percent of the total government budget. Mr. Jurin said this showed that the current administration valued education.

He added that the government's budget reduction from the previous year would not affect the free education program. He said his ministry would compensate for budget constraints by reducing expenditure in unnecessary areas.

Mr. Jurin stated that budget reductions were understandable in the middle of a global economic recession.

-- NNT 6 May 2009

article here

[HagenvonTronje]

Education Ministry launches program to alleviate teachers' administrative work load

BANGKOK, 7 May 2009 (NNT) – Education Ministry has cooperated with ‘Tonkla Archeep', the intensive vocational training program to employ 14,532 additional positions to take care of administrative work under the ‘Return teachers to students’ project.

Education Minister Jurin Laksanawisit said that teachers would be free from administrative work and therefore be able to handle their primary duties of teaching and planning their course syllabus effectively. He cited that the amount of teachers' work load had been problematic in the Ministry since 2006.

During training, personnel employed in the project would be paid 4,800 baht per month. Mr. Jurin said once employees were filled in their positions, they would be paid up to their education qualifications and would be sent to work in schools nationwide from the 2009 academic year onwards.

Mr. Jurin added that currently there were 31,501 schools under the Office of the Basic Education Commission lacking a total of 45,205 teachers.

-- NNT 7 May 2009

article here

[BHA83]

Many thanks for the info, I didn't realise that it was like that.

FF

I can understand, it is hard to believe. Some stories I could tell you are just insanity, you wouldn't believe that adults could behave this way.

I'd be interested to hear if other folk have had the same experience, or if my colleagues and I have been especially unlucky?

I have never taught at uni, where many posters seem to have encountered poor or lazy admin staff, but I work at a Government high school. We do not have admin staff for the day to day running of the school. Each Thai teacher is deligated with two extra tasks on top of their teaching roles. They deal with the enrolment of new students, collection of school fees, secretarial duties of the director, arrangement of school trips and many, many other roles that do not need a teaching degree to undertake. I think it is schools such as mine that need admin staff so the teachers can do the job that they are paid to do, teach!

We do have a good print room that is staffed by a very capable lady who is only too willing to run me off 50 copies on the spot, or 250 copies within the morning.

No complaints about my school, I love it!

[HagenvonTronje]

cut the budget, but employ even more for administration and paper pushing?

i thought they need teachers. and if the administrative workload really that big then trim and slim down that process.

the same you have in the state own enterprises,civil servents, the administraival levels, at the ampoe and so on.

to photocopy a paper 3 times and place 5 different stamps all over it, there is no need to employ 9 office worker. the only one make profit hereby are the producer of the uniforms and the hotels where they held their official meetings and local conferences.

lazy, sitting around, do nothing. sometimes they get the order to wear a white shirt, have to attempt a bus trip and a rally, to demand everybody should shut up now because the PM had such a hard time at the moment.

employ even more of them and because their salary is still low hand them out additional 2000 baht to power boost the local economy. if you run out of money with such policy just cut down the budget for the education program.

a vicious circle. the education system lose quality and will not produces enough people who could alone managed the task of 3 photocopies stamped each 5 times, most of them will need the help of 8 additional co-workers.

just look at this:

source and context for photo and more in this thread.

i think most of their workload comes from organising themself and hold seminars and conferences where they are hand out each other endless list of statistical data, get promoted and awarded with fancy badges for the uniform.

maybe they build networks. like the the once who are responsebile for the refill of rubber-stamp pads with rubber stamp ink build a network, appoint a chairman of the leage, a assisting chairman, a chairman of the board, a secretary of the chairmans, vize secretaries, deputy secretaries and assistant vice secretaries in their network the once who are responsible for the refill of rubber stamp pads with rubber stamp ink in the offices who deal with the important issue to provide enough plastic chairs for the at the local activities on childrens day as guest of honour attending group of delegates of the senior marksmen network in the veterans of the wars association. the workload for the networking activities of the members of the 'ink refiller in the plastic chair organizer agencies' network of the ampoes along the wang river will be immense. something has to be said by this network and because unity is the goal, they have to network with other similar networks, citizen groups, local activists, senior activists, woman association and charitable societies.

and so become the brave employees for the administration the backbone of the thai society. and if you put them all in a white shirt, the frist two lines of people on the picture above will represent 53 different organistations and social network groups.

[PeaceBlondie]

School teachers here work very long, hard, stressful hours, for little pay. We need many more, better paid and trained TEACHERS.

[HagenvonTronje]

EDUCATION

Don't aim for elite colleges, says Abhisit

'Old values need to be changed' to fix system

By: ONNUCHA HUTASINGH, Bangkok Post

Published: 15/05/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

The country's education will go nowhere if people choose universities for their reputations rather than what they have to offer, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva says.

Mr Abhisit said a value exists where students who can enrol in renowned universities are held in high esteem by society.

But he said the notion that only major universities were a ticket to success in life is holding back education's progress.

Mr Abhisit, who was educated in Britain at Eton and St John's College, Oxford, gave a lecture on government policy related to educational reform at the Royal Thai Army Club yesterday.

Mr Abhisit said parents fought hard to have their children enter the top universities which many believed would bring promising career opportunities.

But he said such a belief was a major stumbling block to the success of education reform.

The ingrained value needs to be changed if there was to be any hope of progress in the education system, the prime minister said.

...

continue

-- Bangkok Post 15/05/2009

[HagenvonTronje]

A couple of press photos from Thursdays meeting at the Royal Thai Army Club. The meeting was hold to talk about government policy on the education reform. PM Abhisits as chairman gave the opening lecture. The Etonian reiterated that parents and student shouldn't not choose universities for their reputation or aim for elite colleges. with such old values the countries education will go nowhere.

yes, he said that, at the Royal Thai Army Club. see the Bangkok Post article above.

Thursday, 14 May 2009, Royal Thai Army Club,

source

[HagenvonTronje]

Govt: Free Education is not Really Free

UPDATE : 19 May 2009

More than 1,000 parents have bombarded the Education Ministry’s 1579 hotline with angry calls about the lack of free education that was promised.

On the first day of the school semester, reporters revealed that there were some 1,300 calls to Education Ministry’s 1579 hotline, as they were angry with the free education policy from the government, as it is not actually free.

The hotline officials revealed that there have been around 15,000 complaints to the ministry since March, as parents are saying that education for their children is not actually free, because they still had to pay for things such as special courses.

The government, led by Prime Minister Abisit Vejjajiva, has used the so-called “15 years of free education” as its major policy.

The PM also assured of this policy on his weekly TV show on Sunday, while parents are saying the government should stop boasting about free education. However, the Office of the Basic Education Commission’s Deputy Secretary-general, Somkiat Chobpol said that the free education policy only covers tuition fees, textbooks, uniforms, learning materials, and developmental activities such as Boy Scouts or Girl Guides.

He added that parents may still be asked to pay for lectures by special speakers, special courses, and special activities for which schools may ask parents for donations. Meanwhile, Prime Minister Abhisit said he had already instructed the Education Ministry to ensure that parents were not asked to pay for what the government has already covered.

-- Tan Network 19 May 2009

article here

[HagenvonTronje]

at May 17 another public event to the 15 years of free education program. Abhisit hold a speech at the auditorium of the Horwang School in Bangkok. the school is online and there are a couple of pictures.

The Education Ministry has a video online, where you get all the facts and explanation of the free ipart in the 15 years, streaming or as download (93,5 mb.) Abhisits show part starts around the 15. minute. worth to watch.

and of course the government website thaigov.go.th hosted a photogallery as well.

[

[Texpat]

Those murals remind me of something. Just can't seem to put my finger on it.

Oh yeah ...

[catmac]

Minister of Education confident government budget cutbacks will not affect free education scheme

BANGKOK, 6 May 2009 (NNT) - The Ministry of Education expresses confidence that budget cuts for the ministry will not affect the 15-year free education program.

Minister of Education Jurin Laksanawisit said after a Cabinet meeting today (May 6) that the Cabinet had considered total government budget allocation for the 2010 fiscal year and the Ministry of Education would receive 345.8 billion baht in budget for the upcoming fiscal year, a reduction of 4.8 billion baht when compared with the 2009 fiscal year.

The minister said that his ministry received the highest budget allocation of any ministry, accounting for about 20 percent of the total government budget. Mr. Jurin said this showed that the current administration valued education.

He added that the government's budget reduction from the previous year would not affect the free education program. He said his ministry would compensate for budget constraints by reducing expenditure in unnecessary areas.

Mr. Jurin stated that budget reductions were understandable in the middle of a global economic recession.

-- NNT 6 May 2009

article here

Reducing the education budget by 4.8 billion baht hardly sounds like a government that "valued education". Anyone know how much the military budget increased this year?

Hiring 13.000 extra admin staff is surely the opposite of "reducing expenditure in unnecessary areas", since, as so many posters have pointed out, it will have no beneficial effect for either teachers or students.

With regards to Little Mark's speech, listening to someone who attended what is probably the most elite school in the World (followed by an equally elite Uni) telling everyone else to be happy with run of the mill establishments sounds like sheer cant and hypocrisy.

[HagenvonTronje]

With regards to Little Mark's speech, listening to someone who attended what is probably the most elite school in the World (followed by an equally elite Uni) telling everyone else to be happy with run of the mill establishments sounds like sheer cant and hypocrisy.

Students' parents and guardians satisfied with free education policy

BANGKOK, 18 May 2009 (NNT) – Students’ parents and guardians are satisfied with the 15-year-free education policy since they had never been supported in education for their children before.

After the government implemented the 15-year-free education project in order to reduce students’ parents and guardians burden during the sluggish economy, the assisted parents and guardians were satisfied with the policy, which could share their burdens.

A guardian of a pre-school student and grade-5-student of Wat Parinayok Kindergarten School Ms Natthamon Chaiprasit said that she was personally satisfied with the policy, even though the support was not much, but if compared with the past, it was considered a lot better, while she considered that shops acquired by the school were aimed to facilitate people, but not for profit-making.

She added that she would like the Government to develop the education system because currently students competed to study in famous schools, therefore the government should make students study happily wherever their schools were and that they should have high emotional quotient (EQ) rather than intelligence quotient (IQ).

-- NNT 18 May 2009

article here

[HagenvonTronje]

Students' parents and guardians satisfied with free education policy

BANGKOK, 18 May 2009 (NNT) – Students’ parents and guardians are satisfied with the 15-year-free education policy since they had never been supported in education for their children before.

...

She added that she would like the Government to develop the education system because currently students competed to study in famous schools, therefore the government should make students study happily wherever their schools were and that they should have high emotional quotient (EQ) rather than intelligence quotient (IQ).

Free education policy to cover all areas [2009-05-20] (NNT)

Education Minister Jurin Laksanawisit has ordered 185 education districts nationwide to operate free education policy completely from this new semester onwards.

Free education policy to be continued [2009-05-20] (NNT)

Education Minister is satisfied with 15-year-free education policy and promises to continue it, confident that people understand about the additional expenses borne by parents and guardians.

Prachin Buri PAO supports more budget to free education program [2009-05-20] (NNT)

Prachin Buri Provincial Administration Organization(PAO) supports additional budget for 15-year-free education policy.

anyway, not sure if that 'high EQ rather than IQ' is offical education program. the demand to focus on the EQ is a while around.and was also under thaksin in fashion.

the new motto is "Democracy-Decency-Drugs" whereby the teaching of 'democracy' on the evilness of vote buying focused, decency good moral values and 'drug' of course a anti drug policy, that starts with an anti-smoking program.