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ASHTONITE

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Hello all...

I have a need for a couple of local programmers in CHIANG MAI. I have tried placing ad on CITY LIFE... but no luck. I have some new sites launching www.chiangmaiclassifieds.net and www.thaiautosales.com ... and I really need to find a local PHP | AJAX programmer that can work with me side by side on these sites.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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How much will a PHP/MYSQL programmer take here per hour?

I am a programmer myself, but I would like to outsource some of my work, if it is not too expensive.

Most of the work is scripting existing webpages via CURL and build up a database from that content.

Good english skills are required of course.

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How much will a PHP/MYSQL programmer take here per hour?

I am a programmer myself, but I would like to outsource some of my work, if it is not too expensive.

Most of the work is scripting existing webpages via CURL and build up a database from that content.

Good english skills are required of course.

I have been doing some research... you should be able to find on for about 10,000 - 12,000 per month. You can outsource to a local company for about 19,000 - 20,000 per month... if you want moer structure and be sure of the work. I am looking to hire locally and have them onsite... i find this much better to get the work done... just have been having trouble finding the right place to advertise to get resumes.

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How much will a PHP/MYSQL programmer take here per hour?

200 -300 Baht depending on experience. This corresponds to a monthly salary of 40-60,000 Bahht

I have been doing some research... you should be able to find on for about 10,000 - 12,000 per month...

Sound more like the starting level for a socalled Webdesigner with zero experience rather than a programmer. And you're likely to find that those 10 - 12,000 will be a total waste unless you've got Thai speaking staff allocated to teach them for several months and supervise them closely. Exeptions may exist, of course - but don't expect to get even what you pay for with those cost expectations.

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I would try it on a public board in the department of computer science at the local universities. That's how I did it back in germany and it was quite easy to find someone. I think an announcement in english will suffice, since you want them to understand english anyway.

The citylife magazine is mainly for expats and I think they will be too expensive for that kind of work.

But I plan to pay per project, not per hour or fixed per month. You never know how fast they work, I had someone who took 20h for a project that I can finish in 2 hours. So if he gets e.g. 5000 THB for this project, no matter how long it takes, he can earn up to 2500 THB per hour, that should be enough for a programmer in thailand.

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I would try it on a public board in the department of computer science at the local universities. That's how I did it back in germany and it was quite easy to find someone. I think an announcement in english will suffice, since you want them to understand english anyway.

The citylife magazine is mainly for expats and I think they will be too expensive for that kind of work.

But I plan to pay per project, not per hour or fixed per month. You never know how fast they work, I had someone who took 20h for a project that I can finish in 2 hours. So if he gets e.g. 5000 THB for this project, no matter how long it takes, he can earn up to 2500 THB per hour, that should be enough for a programmer in thailand.

300 - 400 baht per hour... you have got to be joking... this is Thailand... and CHIANG MAI :-) Not BKK. I have an Italian programmer I use and one from Denmark in Phuket... i pay 300 Hr... I pay right now to a local chiang Mai company... 150 THB per hour... and very skilled and good in English. I am just looking to save more money... and to have them onsite. I interviewed a guy today... good experience... SUN Java certified and 2 years in PHP and AJAX. I tested him onsite and quite good... he will start tomorrow.. 12,000... his salary history is 10,000. You would be a fool to pay 30,000 - 40,000.... that guy would have to be dynamite! :-)

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Well if I have about 4-5 projects for 5000 THB each I am only paying 20-25K/month, too. But the programmer can do all the work in a few days, if he is good. If he isn't, he will work all month on it. Paying a fixed wage or on per hour basis actually makes people _take longer_ for the same kind of work. I had bad experiences with that.

A programmer from europe would be fine too, but it is important for me that he cannot understand the german language, since this is my target market.

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If I can pass on any valuable advice that is don’t try to work remotely. In theory is should be perfectly doable, but in reality it can mean ignored emails and phone calls when progress on your project falls behind to make way for other, bigger jobs. Find someone local so you can meet for update meetings or even pop in unannounced. Agree to pay for the project in 2 instalments, or preferably 3 on more costly jobs. It's been my experience that most developers over-promise and under-deliver, especially on anticipated deadlines. It's not unusual for developers to shoot past their promised completion date for dynamic sites, not by days, or weeks, but by months.

I’ve used a bunch of web developers over the past 4+ years and spent hundreds of thousands of Baht with them, but it has to be said that I wouldn’t recommended a single one. It’s not even a case of ‘you get what you pay for’, because the highest price in this game doesn’t automatically mean better skills and experience, despite impressive portfolios.

I wish you luck, because it can be a real headache sometimes getting what you want with dynamic websites. Oh, and when the work is done, check, test, and check again. In other words try to break the site and make sure all your functions work in all possible scenarios. If you miss something and go back some weeks or months after the project is signed off, you could be paying a fixed daily cost between 2-3,500 Baht for a dynamic repair even if it takes less than 2 minutes to fix. It's often the work that follows the main project when the savvy developer can really make his money!

Aitch

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Ajax is simply 10 lines of javascript isnt it, at least thats the AJAX i use...?

Message boards/classifieds come out of a tin, ie: can be set up in 5 minutes. like thaivisa.com's board. I can customise etc.

I can do most web related things, been in the biz for 12 years, 5 of them in financial and legal websites. (FTSE companies)

PM if interested, and what you want. I dont read TVisa much at the mo - busy on a website. If its too customised and will take too long for me (ie: waste my time - im not into dragging out deals for more cash), i will tell you. Im not into long drawn out deals if it isnt interesting for me, much better doing the job, and being there for support as YOU run it as you want. If its easy, and is a day job i can also tell you.

As i type my database is chugging away going through 60,000,000 records. only 6 hours (approx) to go before i can look at my data! whoopie!

post-50139-1232303387_thumb.jpg

I live in CM, am from UK.

Cheers

p.s: classifieds in CM? hmm... TVisa has CM sewn up in my opinion. good luck.

Most of the work is scripting existing webpages via CURL and build up a database from that content.

DB, please PM me, i use CURL. so much fun.

Edited by whiterussian
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Thanks for all the feedback... my experience as well has been it is best to work with programmers onsite in your home or office if you want the work done right. That is why I am looking for them at a monthly rate... As I have been developing software for 10 years... before in Romania, Denmark and USA... I have a pretty good process to make sure they are productive.

Outsourcing companies can hold you hostage... for example... the one I use closed down for 2 weeks end of December... they day before they uploaded changes to my live server without testing and my site was unusable in Thai.... and guess what... they were on vacation and refused to send the programmer back in the office to fix it.

I am starting to build up a company here based on my standards in Europe... fast, reliable and good value for the money.

RE: classifieds in CM.... TVisa classifieds SUCK! And so does City Life... I just put www.chiangmaiclassifieds.net online 3 weeks ago... I have 2,000 Ad views and 50 registered users with no marketing effort. Plus I am adding more really nice features we all have been waiting for.... I am sure it will be successful... :-)

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Well if I have about 4-5 projects for 5000 THB each I am only paying 20-25K/month, too. But the programmer can do all the work in a few days, if he is good. If he isn't, he will work all month on it. Paying a fixed wage or on per hour basis actually makes people _take longer_ for the same kind of work. I had bad experiences with that.

A programmer from europe would be fine too, but it is important for me that he cannot understand the german language, since this is my target market.

Yes... if you have fixed, small well defined projects... is ok. My projects are long term... complex and features change based on requirements or feedback from the USERS. I will let everyone know when my company is staffed up and ready to take on projects...

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p.s: classifieds in CM? hmm... TVisa has CM sewn up in my opinion. good luck

Far too many people don't pursue their dreams for reasons like the above. Another excuse might be that the time isn't right, or fears about the looming recession!

Most folks find it easier NOT take up their ideas than to carry them out. It's far simpler to find reasons why not to do something than it is reasons to follow through with them.

For the vast majority of wannabe entrepreneurs, ideas remain just that - ideas! I bet everyone reading this has sat at a bar stool and said something along the lines of; I've just thought of a great way to make money!" Such ideas rarely leave barstools or dining room tables. That's why there are far more employees than employers in the world, and thank god for that, because neither side could function without the other.

A true entrepreneur will way up the odds, and follow his gut no matter what. In fact, the more he is told he can't achieve something, the more determined he becomes to succeed.

Most people’s ideas remain in their heads and never see the light of day. Even those who do have a go at something new, the success rate is low due to a lack of patience and persistence. Below is a simple proven fact on how most people are when starting out on a new project:

Of 100 people who start with a plan today, 80 will drop out within 6 months.

Of the 20 left, 16 will drop out within the next 6 months.

Of the 4 left, only 1 will still be at it 6 months later.

Be that 1.

Good luck :o

Aitch

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey all.

I'm the one of whom ThePyawkt speaks. If you'd like, Ashtonite or others, PM me the broad strokes of your project(s) and I'll be able to tell you if it's something I or someone on my staff can accomodate. We're a bit busy right now but if we're talking about discrete modules with well-defined boundaries then we might be able to take them on. If not, I'll try to point you in the right direction -- I know a few freelancers in the area who are reasonably skilled.

Just some comments on what I'd seen posted earlier in the thread, in no particular order.

The going rate for a PHP developer varies anywhere between 6,000 to 100,000 per month in Chiang Mai. At the lower end you're talking about fresh college graduates, and at the upper, senior developers and project managers (mostly in the Lamphun area). For someone with an acceptable level of expertise, expect to pay at least 10,000. Caveat: The level of BS that local applicants will put on their resume or say to your face in an interview is orders of magnitudes greater than the window dressing and embellishment that Westerners will apply to theirs, to the point of being fraudulent.

I do NOT recommend taking anyone fresh out of college or soliciting CS students. The qualifications they earn in universities here aren't worth the paper their degree is printed on. I hate to be harsh, but you are only setting yourself up for increased expense and headache by hiring a CS undergrad. In fact, many CS degree-holders I have met have actually admitted to me that they are told by their "professors" to spend their first year working 2-3 months at each job (invariably with small, local companies) until they learn enough to get a "real job" with larger firms.

AJAX is a methodology, not a piece of code. Sure, you can set up a HttpRequest object in 10 lines of JavaScript, but you've also got your callback handlers, (X)HTML/DOM elements that you've designated for updating, etc. Most just use a framework like XAJAX or jQuery and don't worry about the internals of casting an object that's usable in MSIE in addition to the rest of the browsers (that stick to published standards).

If you're going to outsource, go with someone whose profile significantly includes contract work. Casual freelancers will typically not have an understanding of the difficulties a client will have managing off-site work, and often lack a sense of accountability with regard to quality and deadlines. Hard-core freelancers will be disciplined and much stricter with themselves than you as a client will ever be.

That's all I have for now. If I can't necessarily help you with your project(s), I will at least try to be helpful in some way.

C

Edited by chevyinasia
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