H2oDunc Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Just read this in the papers. It seems HD is joining the ever increasing list of those in trouble. No talk of a hand out for HD though. What not big enough ? Lets hope they can weather the storm. I can see a few companies going under this year ! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...-recession.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Saw how they were doing share price wise.. As always 'luxury' brands like this will always feel a pinch in a downturn.. And as I have said from long before it started this is going to be a doozy of a downturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2oDunc Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. Thats exactly why I ride a Triumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerryd Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Obviously, if HD's production drops and/or prices go up, it will have an effect everywhere. With the tariffs and duties already on large CC bikes in Thailand, trying to get anything new in would probably be more expensive. I think if HD were to line up at the trough, they'd get a hand-out as well. Being marketed as an "American" tradition and all, the government couldn't let themselves be seen as having contributed to the downfall of the only home grown big bike manufacturer. Interesting that despite the drop in sales, they still managed a $78 mil profit. Sure that's 58% lower than the previous year, but I'd say that's not too bad. While the downturn is causing problems, it seems to be to be a little over-inflated (the hype that is). I haven't heard of large increases in the inflation rate, or of huge job losses, or of major pay cuts across the country and the world. So what's that mean ? I make the same rate of pay as I did last year (OK, a little more with my recent raise). Most things I buy are close to the same price (though gas is down considerably), so essentially, I have the same buying power as I did before the "big crisis" hit. It seems to me the main thing that has changed is the big financials got caught with their pants down, and the government is paying to hide the dirty pictures. Beyond that, for a large percentage of the population, little has changed. HD has weathered some bad times before and made it through, coming out even better than before in fact. I think (hope) the same can be said this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Well Dudes, HD may be hurting but Kawasaki Thailand is going NUTS with the sales of their KSRs, D-Trackers, Ninja 250R, KLX, and now the ER-6n. I guess they sell the occasional Vulcan too. Ninja ZX10R is coming in March and the ER6f later in the year. I spent a good chunk of today at Kawasaki Big Bike on Rama 9, and they're moving out bikes just as quickly as they can set them up and get the paperwork done. During the ~hour and a half in the morning while I was picking up my ER-6n I watched as they sent off another ER-6n, a D-tracker and a KLX. Here's the guy who camped out (kidding!) to get his ER-6n first today: He hasn't ridden in 10 years but the ER-6n has lured him back to biking. How cool is that? Kawasaki Rama 9 used to be pretty quiet but now it's crazy busy and bustling all day long. They have 6 bike lifts in the service area and tons of mechanics but it's no longer enough so they're using the elevator to send bikes upstairs where they've installed additional work space. They're also sending staff from the factory in Rayong to assist the service department in Bangkok! The nice thing about upstairs is the air conditioning! Getting the bike serviced in the afternoon. How many techs does it take to change an oil filter? Three apparently! - Pardon the terrible pic- I snapped it with my phone... So, while this global recession is certainly hurting some markets and some brands it's nice to see that there are still some folks that are doing well. Put about 200km on my new ER-6n today and I'm loving it! Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajahnlau Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. And you would know by what means. Heard it in a bar?Barber shop? Please tell us how many you've owned and took a wrench to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerryd Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. And you would know by what means. Heard it in a bar?Barber shop? Please tell us how many you've owned and took a wrench to. Reminds me of various people who've come up to me and tried to tell me things they heard about Thailand, that "a friend" had told them, but were actually ancient stories that have been around since before the Vietnam War ended. Old, tired, rehashed crap from people that have no actual experience with the matter. I've never seen a drop of oil leak from mine, or any of my friends bikes. Haven't had any mechanical problems either. I have seen a couple of drops below one Harley though, in Wranglers. That old, old (1930s ?) bike on display, probably with the original seals still in it ! And I doubt there'd be enough customer loyalty to keep Harley in business if they were to be producing crap bikes. Customer loyalty might keep some old hands coming back, but certainly would be bringing in many new customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajahnlau Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. Thats exactly why I ride a Triumph Rode across US twice on a Bonnie. I see Triumph still haven't figured out how to stop their pipes from turning blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saorsa Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Rode across US twice on a Bonnie. I see Triumph still haven't figured out how to stop their pipes from turning blue. I never had a bike yet that DIDNT turn pipes blue...including 2 HDs, numerous Jap multis and twins, 2 trikes and one old trumpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajahnlau Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Rode across US twice on a Bonnie. I see Triumph still haven't figured out how to stop their pipes from turning blue. I never had a bike yet that DIDNT turn pipes blue...including 2 HDs, numerous Jap multis and twins, 2 trikes and one old trumpet. Next bike show,rally have a walk around and count HD's with blue pipes. None. Heat shields cover pipes. Edited January 29, 2009 by ajahnlau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynabob Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. why are there so many anti HD people on these forum's,what do you drive,when did you start riding,did HD piss you off,have you ever ridden one,would you know how to ride one.I am really intrigued as to what make's you guy's tick because over the last year all the anti HD post's i have seen are hollow no substance just a childish utterance like your's.I started riding 30yrs ago,the smell of a cold two-stroke on a frosty morning,kickstart's,point's,choke's,no helmet law's,the good time's.In this present economic climate i would have thought customer loyalty a good asset to any company am i wrong.Safe driving and keep your rubber side down and remember.It's better be thought a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt.LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVE'S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynabob Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Perhaps the recession will force them to build decent reliable bikes for change, instead of relying on customer loyalty. why are there so many anti HD people on these forum's,what do you drive,when did you start riding,did HD piss you off,have you ever ridden one,would you know how to ride one.I am really intrigued as to what make's you guy's tick because over the last year all the anti HD post's i have seen are hollow no substance just a childish utterance like your's.I started riding 30yrs ago,the smell of a cold two-stroke on a frosty morning,kickstart's,point's,choke's,no helmet law's,the good time's.In this present economic climate i would have thought customer loyalty a good asset to any company am i wrong.Safe driving and keep your rubber side down and remember.It's better be thought a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt.LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVE'S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeaceBlondie Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 HD has had good quality for over 25 years. But the article in the OP fails to mention that HD has bought motor home companies, makes bomb casings, etc. So it is a conglomerate, although it is mostly The Motorcycle Company. American car and truck makers just reported a 50% drop in sales for February, a cut that may sink one or two of the world's biggest car makers. If Harley only loses 25%, HD will do fine. I bet they have a high profit margin on the wholesale price. And they usually have had too many similar models. I cannot believe the govt. will save Harley, like they did in the mid 1980's with high tariffs against Japanese bikes over 700 cc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybike Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 its funny those bitchin about hd being no good .they seemingly dont go to any bike events in thailand.harleys and choppers are the choice of over 90 % of bikers in thailand , thai bikers wouldnt look at a sports bike twice at an event because there is so many cool one off custom built bikes everywhere to be seen........(i rode sports bikes for years and have nothing against sports bikes ,just sayin it the way it is in thailand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynabob Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 so far i have not seen or heard any media report's about HD looking or needing a bailout and i am sure if there was such a media report it would have been well highlighted to us by now.The situation in 80's was very different,Willie G Davidson had just bought back company from AMF an italian led cosortium that nearly bankrupt HD with the rubbish they made.W G D then put HD share's for sale and guess what customer loyalty emerged and to this very day most of share's remain with orignal buyers,HD were day's away from closure.Look at them now,the annual revenue from merchantise is higer then bike sales,must admit did not know about bomb castings,bet there good.Putting high tax on competive import's would not be tolerated now and rightly so,somehow i think HD are strong enough to see this out.LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kf6vci Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I wish I had put all my money on H-D at their IPO. Incredible graph, despite the drop from 70 to below 9 the last 2 years. What disgusts me is how much their CEO used to get in options - that was scandalous. All those who believbe in this brand and its future have amn alternative to just buying the stock and riding it down. You can sell a put option, writing insurance for scared HOG shareholders @ 7.50. check out the option chain at www.bigcharts.com for symbol HOG Earn a small fee. At some point, that fee was around 10% for a single month (@ 10 with the stock above 10). Those who already own multiples of 100 shares could sell call options and get fee income that way. Work a little, times are tough. Ride on! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 ya HD is crap for the most part. overpriced crap at that. granted the nightrod is a sweet looking bike but that's about it IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 its funny those bitchin about hd being no good .they seemingly dont go to any bike events in thailand.harleys and choppers are the choice of over 90 % of bikers in thailand , thai bikers wouldnt look at a sports bike twice at an event because there is so many cool one off custom built bikes everywhere to be seen........(i rode sports bikes for years and have nothing against sports bikes ,just sayin it the way it is in thailand) can't say i totally agree, yes a lot of HD at the events but my sportbike (and everyone else's who rode up with me) got a hel_l of a lot of attention at a couple shows this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2oDunc Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 HD's are not my cup of tea but you have to admire the company. It has over the years built up a customer base which any motorcycle company would love. They have got a lot better over the last few years and It still puts its customers wishes first. Long may it continue. It would be such a loss to motorcycling in general ! But!!!!! I still prefer the Triumph and she still has 3 lovely chrome pipes with not a bit of blue anywhere ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 but you have to admire the company. It has over the years built up a customer base which any motorcycle company would love. ya very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynabob Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) ya HD is crap for the most part. overpriced crap at that. granted the nightrod is a sweet looking bike but that's about it IMO yet again another childish utterance with nothing to back it up,i have never met you in person but i would assume you have a small head.I.E. distance from brain to mouth to short.to refer to another persons ride as crap is pure ignorance and bad manner's but what do you expect from a pig only a GRUNT. H20dunc,i thought you said you rode a triumph,maybe in name.Triumph owner's(me too 1976 750cc T140e)did not embrace the tripple's,they were often compaired to the 750f1 mainly die heart's.I know they were a real eyecatcher and very reliable saw one in douglasville GA in 1994 purple and white with a solo seat and mini apes,fantastic. Edited March 7, 2009 by dynabob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 ya HD is crap for the most part. overpriced crap at that. granted the nightrod is a sweet looking bike but that's about it IMO to refer to another persons ride as crap is pure ignorance and bad manner's jesus dude...a bit sensitive are we? hd riders blindly defend it as if it were something more than a motorcycle. i said "for the most part" didn't i? no specific reference to YOUR bike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2oDunc Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dynabob, The triple I'm talking about can in no way be compared to the F1. 2,300cc of British engineering excellence. The Rocket 3. An astounding bike in every respect. I've had a lot of bikes, in all genres and the rocket 3 takes the crown hands down. I was never a die hard British bike fan till the Rocket. Had an 850 Norton Commando and loved it but it was hard work and a few old BSA's I used to take to the shows. You have to admire the engineer going to his boss and telling him he wanted to build a 2,300cc bike, and the boss for saying " go for it " Years ago I enjoyed my R1's and ZZR's had my time on XTZ tennere's, Africa twins etc. my old classics like the Kawasaki ZiB which was the most beautiful bike to look at but the Rocket just suited both me at the time and Thailand. Saying that the sound of a HD has a music all of its own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynabob Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Damm getting old,i think i had the pleasure of seeing one in phuket about 18 months ago it was on display with a trumpet scrambler in big twin now motorcycleworld both new,excellent man.When marc told me cc i remember saying how compact the motor was in frame,i had no idea triumph was at that level of excellance.Should have known,no way would you drive across us twice on a 750 trident and tell anyone nice touch on new basic model's 500,750,900s.They put FI in old style carb housing and the bikes look really well, colours impressive.watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I agree with the attitude that Harley really needs to update their stuff. Going with a wider "Vee", OHV, and losing some pork would do wonders for the brand. It would bring the engine up to date, which has for too many years relied on torque. I don't think going a Ducati-wide 90 degrees is the answer, but maybe mid 70 degrees will still keep both cylinders visible and yet produce the power the bikes deserve. Oh, and getting a wider range of products would be nice also--as Peace pointed out there's a lot of overlap and not too much to differentiate the models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I got nothing against the HD company or the bikes but I take issue with the Australian importer gouging buyers on the exchange rate. A US$11,000 Harley at the HD website with an Aussie sticker price of Au$29,000 when the exchange rate is over 80% is wrong. And the exchange rate was over 80% for a long time. I don't know the factory gate price, but we can as an exercise work on Au$13750 per bike. Add 500 for freight cost, 500 for the ADR compliance cost, 500 for import duty cost, a wholesale margin of 2750 and a retail margin of 5400 plus GST 2340 we are looking at 25,740 plus the delivery fee rort, stamp duty and reg. The wholesale price (whatever it is) being lower again just makes the whole thing worse. And makes the importer look like the pr1ck he is! Ps: when the Aussie was over 90% in 2008 the price gouging was extreme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathfultalon Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 its funny those bitchin about hd being no good .they seemingly dont go to any bike events in thailand.harleys and choppers are the choice of over 90 % of bikers in thailand , thai bikers wouldnt look at a sports bike twice at an event because there is so many cool one off custom built bikes everywhere to be seen........(i rode sports bikes for years and have nothing against sports bikes ,just sayin it the way it is in thailand) can't say i totally agree, yes a lot of HD at the events but my sportbike (and everyone else's who rode up with me) got a hel_l of a lot of attention at a couple shows this year. I know that isnt true, I had people pointing and staring at my sports bike in Phuket. And there are pleanty of them running around. I think as long as it looks sharp and sounds good people will be interested no matter what badge si on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyR1 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I know that isnt true, I had people pointing and staring at my sports bike in Phuket. And there are pleanty of them running around. I think as long as it looks sharp and sounds good people will be interested no matter what badge si on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynabob Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 why so surprised of course people want to see jap engineering and tech,at it's best,some of the electronic's on these sport's bike's is mind blowing,aerodynamics,what amaze's me everytime,how they manage to fit the engine so tightly into frame,not a inch wasted.rode an XT for a long time i loved that bike even after it put me in hospital for 3months and if i did not have my HARLEY DAVIDSON i would have a african twin.Don't worry after a while you get used to all the attenion.LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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