In Banks We Trust(ed)

[AlexLah]

Thanks for the compliment 12.

I think the picture that Naam posted extremely interesting.

In another thread when the "Crisis" just was announced I said that big banks would start to buy other banks and exactly that happened altough others again ridiculed me. Sometimes/many times using that money that the public borrowed from them, can you not see how insane that is?

So bigger power comes into the hands of fewer very powerfull people, what drives these people wanting to have more and more power?

Somewhere we had a discussion (short one) about population control, again I was ridiculed when I mentioned that there is active campaigns all over the world

to limit or maybe even reduce the number of people on this planet and gues what Mr. Obama in his first days in office signs? A law that allows again sending abortion kits to China or some other counties as well. So when I see that example Naam posted what I see is a buying opportunity, not for me personally as I do not have a lot of cash but for these whacko's that have no problem when people are starving. Lucky for me is that I live in Thailand but I think there are some scary developments in the US, Europe and the UK, think of police state. Next to that we see that we are constantly kept in some state of fear by governments that like to once in a while give us some "shock" Just look at 2008, we got this litlle oil price hike shock and analist predicting it could go up as high as 200-250 USD, then we had our litlle food price hike shock that now also is forgotten and in Sept Oct we had the big shock of the mess we are in now.

I expect a small kind of shock again perhaps somewhere as early as February, maybe they will announce the UK bankrupt, who knows.

As I said they do this to allow change to be made possible to get more control over people. We have already seen that Bush signed one of his last law's about gun regulation. I bet that it would come in pretty nicely if there would bre some kind of Mumbai style event in the US that would make people accept complete ban on guns something like that. So if you look at it, I see more power in lesser hands, more fear creation, more restrictions on peoples behaviour, population control/reduction, privatisation of essential needs (think of water), manipulation of news. Good example is that just recently they admitted the US has been already for 1.5 year in a recession.

So thanks Naam for the picture it will be interesting to see who will eat who.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, the colored circles in the graph in the OP are misleading. However, banks and bankers that we trusted did lose an incredible lot of money. And they, the terribly inept banks and bankers, are still guarding the henhouse.

[geriatrickid]

I am always amazed that some folks think that if they make a statement of alleged "fact" that the rest of us should just put ourselves into blind acceptance mode and nod our heads and utter a collective yes. It would help if there was an actual citation to support these magnificent claims, because the reality says otherwise.

For example I asked myself the question why crime rates in the US are much higher now compared to let's say 20-30 years ago.

Absolute crap. Crime hit its peak in the 80's and early 90's and went into a sharp decline for over a decade. There was a slight increase in 2005-2006 only to have the numbers fall again last year. I suggest you have a look at the published USDOJ numbers. That fall wasn't just in the USA. It was in Canada as well which saw a cumulative drop of 30% and a reduced prison population. The results were due in part to a change in policing methods but more significantly to an overall aging of the population. As that young offender segment grew older, they became less likely to commit crimes. Simple as that.

And then one of the peculior things you will find out is that for example the number of vaccinations to children in the US is about 3 times higher compared to vaccinations in Denmark.

Where did you get your numbers? It seems that the Danish MoH reports differently.

Have a look at the WHO numbers here http://www.who.int/vaccines/globalsummary/...C='dnk'

http://www.who.int/vaccines/globalsummary/...ofileresult.cfm

The rate of immunization for key diseases is similar between Denmark and the USA. In fact, I would go so far as to say the rates are most likely less in the USA once one takes into account the undocumented and illegal population which tends to have lower rates of vaccinations.

Your statements are becoming more and more figments of the imagination as you go on.

If you then look at the contents of these vaccins, I have some serious questions. If you then look at the companies that produces them and the people on their boards again you will find out some very strange things.

Yes? And your point is? Can you give an example? How about trotting out the famous allegation of a link between autism and vaccines? That's a classic. Let's use Denmark for that one. Remember the allegation that Thimerosal in some vaccines was supposed to be the reason why autism was so prevalent. Denmark banned the substance, and yet a decade later autism rates were unchanged or rising. People need a simple answer, a conspiracy answer to explain away the unsettling realities. We all know that as we age, our DNA's ability to repair errors and faulty replications decreases. So what do you expect when people have chosen to reproduce at an older age? Toss in our increased exposure to environmental pollutants and it is to be expected that there will be a greater likelihood of genetic defects in population. And for the icing on the cake, toss in the fact that psychologists are more likely to diagniose autism today than they were back in the 1960's.

Now for this bank thing and the panic they are creating there are some serious questions to be made. Why do those banks get help (to pay off their obligations) from us (future) taxpayers if they themselves don't or pay a litlle tax?

You do not find that strange?

What are you babbling about? The banks most certainly do pay taxes and in some countries it is a massive amount of tax. Have you looked at any of the bank financial statements? If the banks are publicly held, as most are, those profits are then paid out as dividends. The shareholders declare the dividends as income and are taxed. What I find strange is how you can spin these stories and try to pass them off as the gospel.

Now another idiot is trying to lay the blame at China, claiming they manipulate their currency. What the heck. we have a document that shows the US has been doing this since at least 1961. Why is the media not telling this to the public?

Hello? What planet do you live on? Even China has stated that the yuan is fixed for a specific reason. Having the yuan undervalued allows China to sell its products overseas. The manner in which it does this complies with IMF rules, but is manipulation nonetheless. I don't think that one has to be a genius to understand why China needs to keep its export economy rolling: Jobs for the millions of workers that would otherwise go without. By keeping the population occupied, it keeps a lid on 10million+ young males without women that would otherwise get antsy.

If you do some research on who owns these banks and how a lot of them are interconnected and those that are on their boards interact with eachother I bet you will have to do some serious eyebrowsing at least. If you then research history and find out how wars are financed and then check who the people behind these banks were, I guess you would not be so surprised anymore.

ooooh, let me guess, do any of these people have big noses and drink the blood of Christian children at easter? How about you name the banks and the people instead of just tossing out these statements? You are aware that if there are overlapping interests at the board level, the board members are not allowed to be present at discussions or votes, right? This was further reinfoced by the changes in regulations in the EU and SOX in the USA. Again, where do you get this nonsense?

A very interesting subject to research is for example, why it is that oil has to be payed in USD?

It doesn't. It can be paid in any currency. However, because of the historic resilience and stability of the USD it made sense to use that currency. Let me guess, the next allegation will be that the US is trying to manipulate oil prices in the middle east, right?

In case you didn't know, the USA gets most of its oil imports from sources in its own hemisphere with Canada being it's number one source, followed by Mexico. Unlike the EU which is largely dependent upon the middle East and Russia for energy, the USA could batten down the hatches and get by with its safe energy suppliers from the Carribean, Mexico and Canada. It would be tough, but the USA would survive.

For this big Ponzi scheme that is about to fail called pension fund and some people stating that it is our own fault, I have never given permission for my money to use to gamble with it. I have payed for years trusting that the money would be saved and get a decent interest rate so that when I am retired MY money would be payed back to me on a monthly base.

Well gues what, it vaporised, thanks, you can find me on that private island I "Invested" in Dubai.

I wouldn't be gloating if I were you considering the fact that the gulf emirates invested heavily in the US and EU banks and real estate markets. They had to put their oil revenues somewhere. Couldn't very well keep it in the drawer you know. What do you think is going on in these oil dependent countries now that oil prices have dropped? it's not just going to mean passing up on a brand new Beemer for little Abdul's 16th birthday.

That Madoff guy still enjoying his expensive wine while sitting in his 40 Million Dollar villa, where is all that money? Why is he allowed to walk around free?

How can he still have money to buy food? Why is nobody asking these kind of questions?

Because he is not a flight risk and he is payingthe expense of his own detention.

The alleged 50billion losses are just that, alleged. The number is derived from the assumption that the assets invested were actually making 10-15% over the years. What counts is the principal. If people received disbursements, i.e. interest payments, which were really a repayment of the actual investments, they have not technically incurred an actual loss. There is pecuniary loss in respect to unrealized gains, but that is a different matter related to the reneging on a contract. The loss will be if the principal is gone, and it isn't gone if it has been paid out to the investors over time. What you conveniently forget is that alot of people made money from the scheme, especially the investment advisers, brokers and even many of the investors themselves. One can lock up Madoff, but there had better be room for the hundreds of others that made it possible. Over the years, multiple investment analysts said what Madoff was doing was impossible, but nobody listened. Those investors were greedy, wanting their 15% returns in a market that was paying 5%.

We read that every seven minutes now a family in the UK is loosing their home, where do they sleep tommorow night?So if you took some time to find out who the people are behind the banks you would understand that this whole situation we are in now is CREATED, to achieve their next goal.As I said before most of what I say you can find out yourself by a bit of digging and then make notes or print out stuff and tie the knots together.

Happy digging.

As sorry as I am for a family that will lose it's home, maybe just maybe, some of those people should never have borrowed so much money to begin with. There is an old fashioned philosophy that some of us have of living within our means and not buying everything possible on credit. I never put out the millions for a condo on Phuket because I didn't want to tie up all my money or to be forced to have to get a mortgage. I made do with a crappy little condo rental instead. Maybe it's not impressive, but dam_n if I'm not debt free with money in the bank.

It seems to me that President Obama is quite the old time conservative when he says we should start taking responsibility for ourselves, our decisions and our actions. It's a good philosophy, instead of the old find someone toblame for our own stupidity, greed and avarice.

Also seems to me that the only thing that you dug was a hole for your conspiracy theories. Can you dig it?

[Naam]

i very much enjoyed reading your excellent rebuttal Geriatrickid!

[Naam]

That is exactly what the original graph shows: market obvioulsly had believed the banks will do well, that's that big bubble. How they did - is that small pupil at the bottom of the market's previous belief.

Not wishing to be pedantic, but the original image is not a graph. The market and investors have been misinformed as the banks have hidden the truth about how much Sh*t They were in. So I agree with you to an extent.

Look at HSBC, Now half the MC it was, but if you look at the image it appears to have lost about 80% of its value. The small bubble bears no relationship to the large bubble.

optically the graph is indeed wrong. i forgot to point that out. the "designer" made the mistake to depict values using as a ratio the diameter of the circles which is misleading. circle areas should have been used instead. nevertheless, it's the numbers that count. i did not verify them but i have no reason for doubts.

[flying]

i very much enjoyed reading your excellent rebuttal Geriatrickid!

I did too but...........

The point about Madoff I disagree with big time.

It is a digital world. Leaving him out with access to such things is like leaving a

sniper loose on bail but giving him access to rifles.

Also I have no problem with locking him up along with the *hundreds of others*

This is a big problem here. All the bullsh!t positioning. Wrong is wrong no need for all the games. He is the one who admitted early on yes?

These days a person can be caught with the smoking gun & still it takes time & money to hand out justice. ( if you fit into that slow to receive justice category )

of course. Yet they jail the ones not in the club or the ones that lack the secret decoder ring in a heartbeat. Bull !

[OriginalPoster]

i very much enjoyed reading your excellent rebuttal Geriatrickid!

I did too but...........

The point about Madoff I disagree with big time.

It is a digital world. Leaving him out with access to such things is like leaving a

sniper loose on bail but giving him access to rifles.

Also I have no problem with locking him up along with the *hundreds of others*

This is a big problem here. All the bullsh!t positioning. Wrong is wrong no need for all the games. He is the one who admitted early on yes?

These days a person can be caught with the smoking gun & still it takes time & money to hand out justice. ( if you fit into that slow to receive justice category )

of course. Yet they jail the ones not in the club or the ones that lack the secret decoder ring in a heartbeat. Bull !

As I recall, it took about 3 years after Bernie Ebbers's fraud at Worldcom was apparent before he was convicted, and for a good part of that he was out free uncharged with any crime. The Madoff case is actually moving quite quickly in comparison. It's not exactly true that Madoff is "walking around free" though, and not at all true that he is living in a "villa". He is under house arrest in what is no doubt a luxious apartment that he owns in the Upper East Side of NYC, which might a far cry from Rykers Island but saying that he's living in a "villa" is intentionally misleading. He's not out gallivanting around living the high life. It doesn't sound too likely that he's going to be able to sneak out of his apartment and flee the country.

Edited January 26, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[geriatrickid]

The point about Madoff I disagree with big time.

It is a digital world. Leaving him out with access to such things is like leaving a

sniper loose on bail but giving him access to rifles. Also I have no problem with locking him up along with the *hundreds of others* This is a big problem here. All the bullsh!t positioning. Wrong is wrong no need for all the games. He is the one who admitted early on yes? These days a person can be caught with the smoking gun & still it takes time & money to hand out justice. ( if you fit into that slow to receive justice category )

of course. Yet they jail the ones not in the club or the ones that lack the secret decoder ring in a heartbeat. Bull !

How about something we all agree on: What he did is wrong. I hope he is put away for a long time and rots in Sing Sing. He's scum & filth.

However, as mentioned upstairs, he is confined to his apartment under the watch of 2 security guards, has an anklet bracelet to monitor movements, has lost the use of a computer & phone, cannot send anything or call out unless it's screened and has to clear his leaving the apartment with the court. I'd venture, that Mr. Madoff may be in a gilded cage, but he is certainly more restrained than most gang leaders or mafia bosses are in US prisons.

Besides, the last thing the state of NY needs is having some inmate stick a shiv into Madoff's back just for the fame of it. I'd also suggest that the treatment extended is ensuring that Madoff cooperates and helps the regulators unravel the fraud. If Madoff clammed up it would take an army of expensive auditors to sort it out

Mr. Madoff hasn't commited a violent crime, nor has he been convicted. He can't flee with that monitoring, so I'd venture he's safer under these conditions than in a prison which would cost the state what? 40-50,000 USD per annum, vs the $100,000+ Madoff has to come up with from friends and family. (All his identified and declared assets have been seized or frozen.)

So, I'd say, hold our collective noses because the guy will do hard time. The feds just need time to get this figured out first to prevent someone else from doing the same crap.

[flying]

How about something we all agree on: What he did is wrong. I hope he is put away for a long time and rots in Sing Sing. He's scum & filth.

However, as mentioned upstairs, he is confined to his apartment under the watch of 2 security guards, has an anklet bracelet to monitor movements, has lost the use of a computer & phone, cannot send anything or call out unless it's screened and has to clear his leaving the apartment with the court. I'd venture, that Mr. Madoff may be in a gilded cage, but he is certainly more restrained than most gang leaders or mafia bosses are in US prisons.

Besides, the last thing the state of NY needs is having some inmate stick a shiv into Madoff's back just for the fame of it. I'd also suggest that the treatment extended is ensuring that Madoff cooperates and helps the regulators unravel the fraud. If Madoff clammed up it would take an army of expensive auditors to sort it out

Mr. Madoff hasn't commited a violent crime, nor has he been convicted. He can't flee with that monitoring, so I'd venture he's safer under these conditions than in a prison which would cost the state what? 40-50,000 USD per annum, vs the $100,000+ Madoff has to come up with from friends and family. (All his identified and declared assets have been seized or frozen.)

So, I'd say, hold our collective noses because the guy will do hard time. The feds just need time to get this figured out first to prevent someone else from doing the same crap.

Thanks that is some info I did not know.

has lost the use of a computer & phone

As for the other stuff wellllllllll

You know things like the shiv...Bernie is never going to that type of jail I guarantee 100% He will make some deals & trades & end up in a carpeted room for sure. Also considering who he screwed on the outside he may be much safer on the inside of a Club Fed. He even screwed Spielberg for gods sake...He could be killed by a light sabre wielding Chubaka

To say he has not committed a violent crime may not be 100% accurate either.

Some of the older folks who thought they were set for life now may have to find work at a time when finding work may be harder than finding a 40 year old virgin

So that will have an effect on those folks. Many had everything with him & yes they probably knew something was fishy as he always did so well. Soooo maybe they had it coming. But what you said about Sing Sing? I wish it was Singapore they sure punish a thief.

[AlexLah]

OK, since I like to make myself a bit more clear.

With the example of the difference in the number of vaccinations given to children from different country's.

And please reasd my response. I never said that a higher rate of crime is or could be caused by that.

If you are trying to find out you need to check the differences between all kind of possibilities.

Therefore is stated: One of the things I found strange is the difference isn vaccinations and the stuff that goes in it.

I did not know that and just found out while trying to look at things differently.

US gets 36 jabs, Denmark 12.

You yourself suddenly come up with autism, where did I ever mention autism?

Further research is being asked for by scientist.

Quote: It is entirely possible, but

not yet studied by the CDC, that a child's immune response, inhibited by the

elevated mercury levels from thimerosal-containing vaccinations, has less

ability to respond to the measles virus in the MMR vaccine. This might be

an explanation for the presence of measles virus cultured from the brains

and guts of 80 percent of autistic children. However, we are grateful for

their epidemiological research and hopeful that it will spur the absent and

yet much needed biological mechanism research here in the United States.

I just gave an example of things I find interesting to find out.

Like this:

Or this:

Or this:

And stated somewhere on a long report they state that from the latest statistics crime could be on the rise again.

OK, enough of that as it is not relevant to Naams picture and Madoff.

You are right by saying that money is not destroyed, it has been transferred, but for his victims it is sort of vaporised no?

Yes they have this statement that shows the annual increase was a safe 5-12 % or something. So where is it?

They also have now installed a few cameras as they found out he transferred some money even when under surveilance.

Calculate the cost of all of that, guards, cameras, people to check the camera images. What a waste.

And then somewhere you read that his victims might be able to get compensated with help of bail out money.

Good for them but not really fair I think.

Now some of banks are asking again for more money, I wonder what they are gonna do with it, invest in ather banks again as some did the first time?

And as for those big coorperates and banks going offshore for a reason which is now not so secret anymore.

[OriginalPoster]

As for the other stuff wellllllllll

You know things like the shiv...Bernie is never going to that type of jail I guarantee 100% He will make some deals & trades & end up in a carpeted room for sure. Also considering who he screwed on the outside he may be much safer on the inside of a Club Fed. He even screwed Spielberg for gods sake...He could be killed by a light sabre wielding Chubaka

That's why I'm not so sure that his prior wealth and connections are going to get him a soft deal. I'm sure he's not going to end up spending his time in Supermax, but it seems as if Madoff screwed over about half of the alleged members of the Illuminati. It's hard to believe that he has many friends left who will be pulling strings for him, more likely there are powerful people with a vendetta against him.

[12DrinkMore]

I expect a small kind of shock again perhaps somewhere as early as February, maybe they will announce the UK bankrupt, who knows.

Been there already.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...s-collapse.html

The most frightening sentence was "the Treasury was preparing for the banks to shut their doors to all customers, terminate electronic transfers and even block hole-in-the-wall cash withdrawals".

[flying]

Been there already.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...s-collapse.html

The most frightening sentence was "the Treasury was preparing for the banks to shut their doors to all customers, terminate electronic transfers and even block hole-in-the-wall cash withdrawals".

You know a month or tow ago I asked in some UK type banking post if folks there were afraid about the banks.

That is what I meant...I wondered if folks were starting to use alternatives like home safes or bury etc. Also if more were buying some gold or silver.

[AlexLah]

Scary indeed, and also to see that one guy is trying to inform the public about the dangers and another guy saying that is irresponsible behaviour.

How can such guy say that?

So he thinks it is better that people at a certain moment will not be able to get money from an ATM and buy food and stuff incase indeed the bank collapses as a result of big depositors taking out their cash. Why not instead limit for a short period the amount of cash that could be withdrawn and work on a solution.

But no, we the sheeple have no right to know the thruth.

[AlexLah]

Geria as to people getting foreclosed, in your very simplistic view it is all because people were just not being responsible.

Yes, that might be the case for a lot, but not all.

You see if you want to buy a house you go to some firm which either gives free advice or charges a bit and these people

expect some good intelligent advice from that "Financial Expert" right?

So I have appointment with expert I show my salary statement and ask, can I buy this house without a problem.

Well lot's of magic formulas and ok there we have it some kind of solution with fixed and non fixed rates, adjustable ones

and all kind of other boobaa. Yes the expert says it ok for you to buy this house.

So partly blame on this expert partly blame on the customer.

But you have any idea who the people where/are that are responsible for making that possible?

Are you familiar with The Community Reinvestment Act and do you know who filed a lawsuit agains Citi to force them make these bad loans?

Obama, Barack H. (Illinois)

FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000

Do you know about Acorn?

Watch this video and tell me who is talking here about responsible behaviour in the midlle of the subprime meltdown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FewmvkaTXHU&eurl

Obama saying that it started as a good thing that they introduced regulation that would allow people to buy a house

that they could previously not afford to.

So there you have a guy that in his speech talks about responsible behaviour......tsssk tssssk.

That is what I mean with sometimes you need to digg a litlle deeper to get closer to the truth.

O yeah, and I thought they were in Afghanistan for that guy that lives in those caves, and now it is all about energy safety?

Weird....

[Naam]

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - Bank of America played a role in Merrill Lynch's controversial decision to pay $4 billion in bonuses in December, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.

Bank of America had said the payment of $4 billion in compensation in a fourth quarter in which Merrill suffered $15 billion in losses was sanctioned by John Thain, Merrill's chief executive.

The FT reported that Thain, who left the firm last week, had at least two conversations with Banc of America's chief administrative officer, J. Steele Alphin, before a December 8 board meeting at which Merrill's bonus payments were approved.

Bank of America told the FT there were conversations about the bonus payments prior to the pay-outs.

"We never said we didn't talk with them about it. But, in the end, it was their decision and they informed us of it," the company said.

Bank of America could not be immediately reached for comment.

[AlexLah]

So whe have Obama stating, First it did look good, (to have people that could not affort a house) now with the new regulation look good.

There are two possibilitys, Either Obama had no idea that lending money on 5 times annual salary is not a good thing to do.

Ore you have Obama that understands that lending 5 times annual salary to buy a house is not so good.

But whatever thought, he still went pushing it.

If he had no idea, I just wonder what qualifications you need to become a president.

If he had, I just wonder why he did that while knowing it would be a disaster.

Please give me an explanation.

Alex

[flying]

So whe have Obama stating, First it did look good, (to have people that could not affort a house) now with the new regulation look good.

There are two possibilitys, Either Obama had no idea that lending money on 5 times annual salary is not a good thing to do

Im sure everyone myself included was awars that it was dumb to do NINJA loans.

That aside that You Tube video with Obama saying that is really a stupid setup.

He said What STARTED out as a good thing

Then the nuts trying to make that something it isn't then cut all the rest of his speech out.

What the heck is wrong with someone saying the idea to get folks into their own homes started out as as good thing?

Dont twist it all up .....That is all he said.

I am not saying he will be a good prez who knows but this kind of stuff is so Rush Limbaugh

[AlexLah]

And that is exactly what I posted Fly.

What STARTED as a good thing.

Read my post.

So when was it that he found out it was going bad?

I do not say he will be a bad or a good president, I just want you all to know that there are other factors involved and many times things are not what they seem.

Fact is that they forced regulation through that allowed this 5 times annual salary calculation to be used to get peeps in their own homes.

Before it was 2.5 times.

To simply say that it is peoples own mistake is just silly and ingnorant.

And I do not twist things up, I am just asking a very simple question.

Do you think the people that voted for this, knew what the consquences could be.

Please try to answer this question.

[geriatrickid]

Flying, an excellent answer. You nailed it.

However, after contemplating the matter while sitting on my special moonbeam focusing chair, I saw the light. Would you like me to try and find some Lyndon Larouche material and fashion an aluminum foil hat to facilitate your absorption of the "truth"? Perhaps if I attach a propellor to the top it will blow the "knowledge" into your ears so that you will become enlightened too.

[flying]

And that is exactly what I posted Fly.

What STARTED as a good thing.

Read my post.

So when was it that he found out it was going bad?

I do not say he will be a bad or a good president, I just want you all to know that there are other factors involved and many times things are not what they seem.

Fact is that they forced regulation through that allowed this 5 times annual salary calculation to be used to get peeps in their own homes.

Before it was 2.5 times.

To simply say that it is peoples own mistake is just silly and ingnorant.

And I do not twist things up, I am just asking a very simple question.

Do you think the people that voted for this, knew what the consquences could be.

Please try to answer this question.

Sorry but he said " What STARTED OUT as a good thing"

You said "First it did look good"

Those are two very different things in English language

When someone says What started out as a good thing. They mean it had a good intention but went in another direction.

When someone says First it did look good means it was carried out as written but they were wrong it was a bad thing.

I am not the one to speak for him but I believe he meant it started as a good/nice thing to help folks into homes. It was then twisted into ARM & NINJA loans to every tom dick & harry.

Hence the mess

Lastly we should remember it was the shoe catcher who was president then.

So your question has no answer that should be directed at the current president/janitor who is hoped to clean up previous pigs mess.

As for me I never voted per say for everyone to get loans but as a contractor I sure as he!l knew tis would happen. So for your question I would say yes of course they knew when they passed it this would happen.

I remember years ago saying.............. How can banks do this dont they know these folks will default? Dont they know these prices are inflated to unrealistic levels? Dont they know these homes are not worth these prices?

Dont they know when the prices come back to planet earth they will be the ones holding the keys to all the homes folks walked away from? Due to negative equity or loss of jobs.

Yeah I tend to think the only person who did not know these simple truths was rip van winkle

Edited January 27, 2009 by flying

[flying]

Flying, an excellent answer. You nailed it.

However, after contemplating the matter while sitting on my special moonbeam focusing chair, I saw the light. Would you like me to try and find some Lyndon Larouche material and fashion an aluminum foil hat to facilitate your absorption of the "truth"? Perhaps if I attach a propellor to the top it will blow the "knowledge" into your ears so that you will become enlightened too.

Sure you got the right guy here?

I dont recall answering anything esoteric

[geriatrickid]

Oh I know what you think, but resistance is futile. Sure you are logical and coherent now, but after you read enough of the conspiracy theorists and proponents of mumbo jumbo, you will appreciate the aluminum foil outerware. Besides, considering the state of FX and the banking system, I bet there's a future for aluminum foil.......somewhere....

With my pay freeze and 20% decline in pay due to FX, I'm ready to believe in something simple.

prozac, anyone got some extra prozac....

[jubby]

Prozac !?

You can find it in the drinking water in the UK. Put there by the Government as part of some conspiracy theory to control the masses or just due to the amount of it consumed by the Happy subjects of her majesty. ;-)

[flying]

Oh I know what you think, but resistance is futile. Sure you are logical and coherent now, but after you read enough of the conspiracy theorists and proponents of mumbo jumbo, you will appreciate the aluminum foil outerware. Besides, considering the state of FX and the banking system, I bet there's a future for aluminum foil.......somewhere....

With my pay freeze and 20% decline in pay due to FX, I'm ready to believe in something simple.

prozac, anyone got some extra prozac....

Oh Lordy Mama you lost me

Dont feel bad its not hard to do!

Hey I could go for a prozac....You know I was at the doctors

for my wifes green card stuff & I saw in a magazine.

You wont believe it...or maybe you will...?

They are giving Prozac to the troops in Iraq

They said it is the first war that they are fighting depression before they

even get home. Wow

Anyway............ You could be right & I am so happy I will be back in TL for a couple of months.

I need outa here so badly.

You talk about a pay freeze? Man Im self employed & it is January you know what that means?

In the USA it means bend over...General Excise? 4% of what you made

Fed Income? Who knows 20%?

State Income? Im afraid to look.

What do I get for it nuthin!

Yeah pass the prozac buddy!

BTW your avatar? My fav guy in the Hobbit

Then again I was an Archer for years.

C-ya!

Swadee pimai

Edited January 27, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

I'm ready to believe in something simple.

prozac, anyone got some extra prozac....

no need for Prozac. simple straight Black Label (no ice!) is just fine

[AlexLah]

Simple, just follow the rabbit.

[Pakboong]

As Mark Twain observed: "A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain."

[lannarebirth]

As Mark Twain observed: "A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain."

That's pretty good. On gold mines he noted: "A gold mine is a hole in the ground with a liar standing out in front of it".

[AlexLah]

Ok where was I, O yeah the other sensless scream that you can pay for oil in other currency than USD.

The majority of all international oil trade is done on the NYMEX and the IPE and the futures (contracts) are traded in USD, prove me wrong.

Iran trade some of it's oil in Euro and that is why that other country leader uuuuhh dictator ended up hanging on a rope, yep he traded

oil in Euro's.

Now today I read a very interesting article which I will post after I give a litlle bit of background info regarding me asking you if you were interested in why oil is payed in USD, because if you know that you start to see a bigger picture.

Let's go back to October 1973, remember the Yom Kippur war?

Sadat asked King Faisal to boycot all country's that supported Israel, The saudi's where a bit reluctant so instead increased the price of crude by 70% a few days later and they cut production by 5-10%. A few days later Nixon asked for 2.2 Billion to support the Israelis in their war. As soon as that was known the next day the Saoudis announced a total oil embargo which lated a month or 5. Price of oil in 1970 was about a dollar 40 and 8.30 just 4 years later.

So congress very shocked by the result of the embargo was thinking of getting their hands on their precious oil dollars. So they invent JECOR sort of an economic commision which would try to convince the hous of Saud to invest their dollars in infrastructure. So the Treassury department asks company's like MAIN, Bechtel and a few others to come up with infrastructure plans for Saoudi and an estimate what that would cost but also what the benefits would be.

They proposed them to build refineries so they can get more money, stuff liuke that. But thos echief economist make also a second plan, namely how much money could be earned by US company's. Because the deal was, OK, we will keep you (The saoudi royal family) in power and build your infra structure and such but you need to buy Treassuries in exchange for your oil and then we pay you a nice interest. Sounds good so in the end they signed the contract and we all can see how well that plan worked out.

But now the Saouds are pissed, two reasons, the low price of oil and this whole situation in Gaza. So I expect Obama and his team are going to make some visit's pretty soon.