In Banks We Trust(ed)

[OriginalPoster]

Ok where was I, O yeah the other sensless scream that you can pay for oil in other currency than USD.

The majority of all international oil trade is done on the NYMEX and the IPE and the futures (contracts) are traded in USD, prove me wrong.

Iran trade some of it's oil in Euro and that is why that other country leader uuuuhh dictator ended up hanging on a rope, yep he traded

oil in Euro's.

Now today I read a very interesting article which I will post after I give a litlle bit of background info regarding me asking you if you were interested in why oil is payed in USD, because if you know that you start to see a bigger picture.

Let's go back to October 1973, remember the Yom Kippur war?

Sadat asked King Faisal to boycot all country's that supported Israel, The saudi's where a bit reluctant so instead increased the price of crude by 70% a few days later and they cut production by 5-10%. A few days later Nixon asked for 2.2 Billion to support the Israelis in their war. As soon as that was known the next day the Saoudis announced a total oil embargo which lated a month or 5. Price of oil in 1970 was about a dollar 40 and 8.30 just 4 years later.

So congress very shocked by the result of the embargo was thinking of getting their hands on their precious oil dollars. So they invent JECOR sort of an economic commision which would try to convince the hous of Saud to invest their dollars in infrastructure. So the Treassury department asks company's like MAIN, Bechtel and a few others to come up with infrastructure plans for Saoudi and an estimate what that would cost but also what the benefits would be.

They proposed them to build refineries so they can get more money, stuff liuke that. But thos echief economist make also a second plan, namely how much money could be earned by US company's. Because the deal was, OK, we will keep you (The saoudi royal family) in power and build your infra structure and such but you need to buy Treassuries in exchange for your oil and then we pay you a nice interest. Sounds good so in the end they signed the contract and we all can see how well that plan worked out.

But now the Saouds are pissed, two reasons, the low price of oil and this whole situation in Gaza. So I expect Obama and his team are going to make some visit's pretty soon.

That's a convoluted way to try to counter the claim that oil could be paid for in any currency. Better to stick to stats about how much oil is sold in USD than to try to tie it into Nixon's response to Isreal being attacked during the Yom Kippor War. .

Edited January 27, 2009 by OriginalPoster

[AlexLah]

I did not say it was the response of Nixon that made oil trade in USD, oil was traded in USD long before that..

I only try to say that they are pissed and with the history of the 74 oil embargo they might repeat the same action?

Anyway they have been saying they want oil to be at least between 60-80 USD if I remember well, they are not getting it and they are pissed and perhaps now they wanna use this Gaza incident to give it a bit of a push? They have also said they are continuing the development of the Oil Dinar and when they do and are succesfull the USD will most likely soon be a forgotten piece of paper.

The Saouds when price of oil was still OK for them they could afford to buy treassuries, now probebly not, so who is hurting who?

I am just trying to understand what game is being played.

If you can help understand by actually contributing something usefull, that would be highly appreciated.

[AlexLah]

Where are the critics that prove I am wrong, huh?

As I said Oil is traded in USD for a reason.

It is for you to find out why, I already know.

So go out and do your research and connect the dot's.

As I know when I tell you , you would not believe me.

So please do some reseach yourself, you will be surprised and finaly understand, what I say is true.

[Naam]

Where are the critics that prove I am wrong, huh? As I said Oil is traded in USD for a reason. It is for you to find out why, I already know. So go out and do your research and connect the dot's. As I know when I tell you , you would not believe me. So please do some reseach yourself, you will be surprised and finaly understand, what I say is true.

signed:

"the one that knows"

[geriatrickid]

AlexLah, your twisted take on the recent Gaza conflict is nowhere near the mark. The fact of the matter is that the Egyptians stood on the sidelines applauding and the Saudis didn't give a dam_n. They both know that Iran is backing Hamas and it was in the their collective interest that Israel do what it had to do and fast. None of the Gulf states really did much aside from make clucking sounds for public consumption. Iran is their enemy. Shiites vs. Sunni and don't ever forget that. Case in point; Egypt turned back an Iranian ship with "Aid" for Gaza yesterday. Egypt also refused to allow the access points on their border to be opened during the conflict. Nothing stopped Egypt from allowing aid convoys. It went in via Israel. Fancy that. The arabs are not all dumb and can think long term. Gaza is technically Egyptian territory in case you forgot. It's just that the Egyptians don't want it back now.

The Gulf states are still using USD because they hold lots of USD. Have a look at their investments. They used that money to buy stakes in real estate funds and banks in the USA. Screwing with the US economy ends up hurting the arab oil kingdoms' investment portfolios so there is no incentive to do it.

As for your take on Nixon's aid, he only did it because the Soviets were pouring all sorts of aid into Egypt and the US could not afford to lose a foothold in the middle east. Nixon didn't like Israel but he hated commies more. He did get his start with Bobby Kennedy detroying people's lives as part of the Mccarthy witchunt. The coldwar was in full swing in the 70's with the Soviets using their client states as a proxy. Get a grip.

[AlexLah]

I understand all that Geria.

But ask yourself the question.

What would happen if those oil producing country's stopped trading oil and other stuff in USD?

The USD is backed by nothing and so are most of other worthless pieces of paper.

The only reason that USD is used for oil trade is because back in the early 70 s the US made a deal with OPEC to trade oil in dollars.

The US stopped giving back gold in return for their dollars was in 71 when a few country's started asking for real gold in return for those pieces of paper.

The US realised they did not have enough gold in their vaults incase everybody started asking for their gold.

That's why they had to came up with that OPEC deal.

Now we hear that there is a housing/mortgage collapse and they make us believe that that is the source of all evil, I think that is not the full thruth.

Some figures show they have already sort of commited 8 Trillion USD to solve this "crisis" while if you would spend 1.5 Trillion you would solve that mortgage problem.

Why not make it a bit more simple, is this "Crisis" also not related to people asking for their dollars, like China for example and the US not able to give it?

Why is it that we do not know where this first part of most of the 350 Billion went to?

Yes we know that parts of it was used to buy other banks and a lot of the money (they say) is used to "Balance" the books.

Now they are asking for more money and other peeps say that 700 Billion was not enough to save the banks and most likely more is needed.

Then we have a guy that says we are going to do maintanance on roads and bridges and that will save the economy, how in the world will that help an economy?

This whole Gaza nightmare is complicated but why now saudi is strongly demanding "Change" and say it is time for the US to rethink their position, which they have done before in that area. I remember Cheney shaking hands with Saddam and sending the so needed chemicals to exterminate some Kurds.

That boat with aids for Palestine was blocked by Israel not Egypt there is even a video on YT that shows an Israeli ship was crashing into another ship that tried to send aids to Gaza. Why now suddenly Saudi is pressing for change when they did not really did that before so openly.

A lot of people now say that the US illegally invaded Iraq because of oil, I think it was done to try and save their economy, the US that is.

We are not being told the thruth on what is really going on and as an example you can look at the price fluctuation in the price of oil last year.

They told us it was because of supply and demand, total and utter BS as I know now. as I downed the excel file which shows the numbers on world supply and demand, no shocking differences there. It also breaks down how many gasoline and all other stuff that is made from crude was produced and consumed and then you see that actual usage of gasoline in the US for example went down even before the increase in price.

And then you find out that the market was just simply manipulated by a few brokers as they seem to think now.

Remember that story that this UK bank was a few hours away from collapsing because investors wanted their money, that was never told to us before and the guy that told it was being told he was irresponsible.

This is not some kind of fight to prove who is right or wrong I am just asking myself and all of you here to think and perhaps we can see the real thruth of what is all going on here.

To me it is very clear that if the world stopped using USD for trade in oil and such and instead used a basket of mixed currency it would couse the collapse of the US.

If country's started to ask back their dollars it would couse the US to collapse.

As said I once just asked myself the question why oil is traded in dollars and if you follow all the dots, there is so much more to discover, and then you realise that this world is just not as simple as they want to make us believe it is.

[geriatrickid]

What would happen if those oil producing country's stopped trading oil and other stuff in USD?

Nothing. Remember that the US gets most of its oil from its own hemisphere. Canada, Mexico, the Carribean and even Venezuala still welcome USD.

The USD is backed by nothing and so are most of other worthless pieces of paper.

Same can be said about other G7 countries. The USA has the ability to make a recovery. That is not in doubt.

The US stopped giving back gold in return for their dollars was in 71 when a few country's started asking for real gold in return for those pieces of paper.

The US realised they did not have enough gold in their vaults incase everybody started asking for their gold.That's why they had to came up with that OPEC deal.

Other countries did the same and frankly, all that currency is, is an object to facilitate trade. Whether the currency is backed by gold or snotballs, what counts is the country issuing the paper and if that paper can be used to buy other goods and services. Given the choice between chiclets and USD, people will still take USD.

Now we hear that there is a housing/mortgage collapse and they make us believe that that is the source of all evil, I think that is not the full thruth.

Some figures show they have already sort of commited 8 Trillion USD to solve this "crisis" while if you would spend 1.5 Trillion you would solve that mortgage problem.

No argument from me on that.

Why not make it a bit more simple, is this "Crisis" also not related to people asking for their dollars, like China for example and the US not able to give it?

Why is it that we do not know where this first part of most of the 350 Billion went to?

Yes we know that parts of it was used to buy other banks and a lot of the money (they say) is used to "Balance" the books.

No, I think it is more like the 1980's S&L situation so that brokers and investors could make more. Inflate the price of real estate used to guarantee the loan and you can get a bigger loan. Pays a bigger commission to the mortgage brokers. Pays more interest to. Win Win for all of them until the assets are priced too high that debt service is impossible and there is no market for the asset. That's when market adjustment takes over.

This whole Gaza nightmare is complicated but why now saudi is strongly demanding "Change" and say it is time for the US to rethink their position, which they have done before in that area. I remember Cheney shaking hands with Saddam and sending the so needed chemicals to exterminate some Kurds.

Saudi is saying this to stop criticism from radical groups. Saudi Arabia only cares about itself. No different than any other country.

The chemical precursors were sourced from Germany, China and Korea. The USA doesn't export the chemicals into the region. Doesn't make economic sense. Look at the reports. Germany is also the same country that wants to sell nuclear components to Iran.

That boat with aids for Palestine was blocked by Israel not Egypt there is even a video on YT that shows an Israeli ship was crashing into another ship that tried to send aids to Gaza. Why now suddenly Saudi is pressing for change when they did not really did that before so openly.

Wrong event. The boat you refer to was coming from Cyprus and was told by all foreign countries to stay out of a war zone. The boat (actually there are 2 from Iran) I am referring to is as reported by the Iranian news sservice as follows;

Tehran, Jan 27: The Iranian foreign ministry Tuesday summoned the top Egyptian diplomat in Iran to lodge Tehran's protest over what it said Cairo's obstruction in getting Iranian aid to the Gaza Strip, the official agency IRNA reported. The head of the Egyptian interest section in Iran, Amr Ahmed A. Meguid El Zayat, was told that Egypt's rejection to give permission to the Iranian aid ship was "not justified at all", a foreign ministry official said. Iran alleges that Cairo has still not issued the necessary permission for an Iranian ship carrying aid for Gaza to anchor in Egyptian waters.During the 22-day military offensive in Gaza Strip, Iran had urged Egypt to open its borders to help Palestinians collect necessary items. According to reports, an Iranian aid ship has been waiting in the international waters close to Gaza port as well as Egyptian waters for a long time.However, Israeli media reported that Egypt has intercepted an Iranian ship carrying arms for the Islamic Hamas movement that is currently docked in the Red Sea outside the Suez Canal. - IANS

A lot of people now say that the US illegally invaded Iraq because of oil, I think it was done to try and save their economy, the US that is.

Again, the USA didn't need Iraq's oil. Only 16% of US oil supplies come from the Gulf State regions. What does it take to get this ,myth debunked. The majority of Iraqi oil was secured under long term contracts to Korea, India, China and other countries like Jordan and Syria. Several EU countries had purchase agreements notably Italy and Germany.

We are not being told the thruth on what is really going on and as an example you can look at the price fluctuation in the price of oil last year. They told us it was because of supply and demand, total and utter BS as I know now. as I downed the excel file which shows the numbers on world supply and demand, no shocking differences there. It also breaks down how many gasoline and all other stuff that is made from crude was produced and consumed and then you see that actual usage of gasoline in the US for example went down even before the increase in price.

And then you find out that the market was just simply manipulated by a few brokers as they seem to think now.

Yes and no. The Chinese and Indian demand is way down. Look at Potash, cement and steel demand. It's fallen too because China's economy is cooling down.

Remember that story that this UK bank was a few hours away from collapsing because investors wanted their money, that was never told to us before and the guy that told it was being told he was irresponsible.This is not some kind of fight to prove who is right or wrong I am just asking myself and all of you here to think and perhaps we can see the real thruth of what is all going on here.

It is no one's interest to announce an imminent bank collapse as it only causes a panic run on the bank which would then guarantee the collapse. Better to have Central Bank and other banks try to fix it first.

To me it is very clear that if the world stopped using USD for trade in oil and such and instead used a basket of mixed currency it would couse the collapse of the US.

If country's started to ask back their dollars it would couse the US to collapse.

As said I once just asked myself the question why oil is traded in dollars and if you follow all the dots, there is so much more to discover, and then you realise that this world is just not as simple as they want to make us believe it is.

The USA will not collapse any time soon barring a catastrophic natural disaster or war. For all those predicting the collapse of Uncle Sam, you'd better hope not, since it is the economy that pumps alot of the foreign aid, that is there when countries like Pakistan have catastrophic earthquakes etc. If the USA falters, say hello to dealing with Chinese, Russian and Iranian interests that will run free. Whatever the faults of the US system are, at least they can have peaceful change in governments and at least there is some measure of response in crisis. What do you think is going on in China now to those that are complaining as in this forum? Mr. Putin's cronies haven't been nice to dissenters either. Sorry, but no matter how imperfect the system is now, I'll deal with it vs. the alternative.

Edited January 28, 2009 by geriatrickid

[AlexLah]

Again Geria for example the Gaza aid trying to be delivered by boat was rerouted to Egypt and then send on trucks to the border.

Where they sat in the burning sun, waiting to be allowed to go in. Some trucks were allowed to pass and they were mostly medicines.

Food was not or partly allowed to go in, you know why?

Because it was not packed according Israeli standards.

Again I say we are not being given the full and thruthfull picture of many events through the controlled propaganda called MSM.

This thread that Naam started by posting a picture of a distorted reality is one of those examples.

And that is why I was so happy Naam posted this, it shows even Naam sometimes get a bit confuzzled.

Same as blaming the Chinese for cheap goods and manipulation of currency (which almost every nation does) does this idiot understand what the percentage is of stuff imported into the US comes from China? And why the US changed from an exporting country to an importing country? Does he understand that his comment could worsen the diplomatic relation between China and the US?

Have a read, article from 2001: http://larouchepub.com/other/2001/2803_import_bubble.html

So many times people just point their finger and try to blame it on someone or something that they just forget what the root cause is that created this so called crisis, they just ask for a quick solution without understanding what created it.

[jcon]

Simple, just follow the rabbit.

I KNEW IT!

I even posted it before, but for some reason it was deleted - I knew you were the type Alex. The type who gets off to the Wacho bros, and has wet dreams over the Matrix Trilogy and V for Vendetta... now it's confirmed.

So now can you please start talking about the Rothschilds, etc.? I'm waiting to hear some Illuminati rubbish because the rubbish you're posting here now is getting really old - like another member has already said.

Aeon Flux was on UBC yesterday - another favorite for conspiracy guys, right? Oooh 'Goodchild' sounds so much like 'Rothschild' doesn't it? What genius screenplay and direction - not. You were glued to the set, weren't you? Oh and what's that movie where Christian Bale is a "Cleric?" That's gotta be up there on your list of faves along with Neo et. al. Tell me I'm wrong.

GeriatricKid, I do quite enjoy your posts in rebuttal to conspiracy rubbish. Plalex - go wash 'Bimmie,' you've got too much time on your hands

No need to delete this post because I know PlAlex and he knows me (though he doesn't know it...), so it's not flaming. So it's all in good fun ja Alex? back to my tin-foil now...

[AlexLah]

Jcon it is all fine you know, I am not a guy that starts to be angry and flame whenever I post some unbelieveble stuff and other peeps try to rebuke.

I am just trying to see the thruth.

A very simple example is that the media started out to blame this whole crisis on House owners, yes many peeps got a house based on unrealistic calculations, so therefore I pointed out who made that possible.

Only blaming peeps that wanted to buy a house that they could not afford. This kind of thinking is a very simplistic one, don't you agree?

It is fact that congress wanted to make this happen, get more people in a house which they origanally could not afford.

Firs we where told it was all about the bad house morgage, now it extended to CDS, which many peeps do not undertand or even know of.

This is all fact, why are people like yourself are denying this?

There is no conspiracy theory here, they are facts.

Why you not show me that congress did not pass a law that allowed and pushed banks to give loans to people that could not afford it.

Why you not show me that Obama did not support this?

Why you not show me that in 1971 the US did not cancelled the Gold relation with the USD?

Why you not show me that the US did not made an agreement with OPEC to trade Oil in Dollars?

Again, as I said, we us sheeple are not being told the truth

We are here to find out what is really happening.

[Orac]

What would happen if those oil producing country's stopped trading oil and other stuff in USD?

Nothing. Remember that the US gets most of its oil from its own hemisphere. Canada, Mexico, the Carribean and even Venezuala still welcome USD.

GK/Alex,

There are many conspiracy theories floating around and I have always viewed them sceptically. It would be nice to think that there is some shadowy being/group (or even country) with a masterplan behind everything and therefore somebody was in control and everything happened for a purpose (I have similar views on organised religion but thats another subject!) however I do not think we are as lucky as that and the problems out there are caused by mans own short term greed and stupidity, however, one that regularly crops up that I have never been able to get my head round is the oil trading.

The comment on where the US gets its oil is not really the pertinent question here but how other countries aquire it and how the transaction works. IF oil is only/mainly traded in USD how does a 3rd country buy it ie. if Belgium (random pick!) buys some oil and has to pay in USD for it where do they come from - since they cannot issue their own USDs they must surely get them from the USA in some way.

I would be interested in knowing if the USD is dependent/affected by these oil trades by 3rd countries and how it could be affected if anyone decided to rock the boat and use a different currency thus reducing the demand for USD - as far as I can tell Iraq tried (look what happenned there) and Iran (public enemy number one!).

Thanks

Orac

[AlexLah]

Hi Orac,

Thanks for your reply.

I also have the same question.

Do other non Dollar countries first have to convert their currency to Dollar to be able to buy oil on the futures marketl?

Ore do they have some kind of special account with a bank that takes care of that?

I really do not know, but maybe I think I know.

I am not a conspiraqcy guy you know, just try to find out the truth.

[Orac]

Do other non Dollar countries first have to convert their currency to Dollar to be able to buy oil on the futures marketl?

Ore do they have some kind of special account with a bank that takes care of that?

I am sure there is an expert out there that can put us straight!

I really do not know, but maybe I think I know.

Maybe you should try changing your tag line to this - you might get a little less flack!

Cheers

Orac

[geriatrickid]

Again Geria for example the Gaza aid trying to be delivered by boat was rerouted to Egypt and then send on trucks to the border.Where they sat in the burning sun, waiting to be allowed to go in. Some trucks were allowed to pass and they were mostly medicines.Food was not or partly allowed to go in, you know why? Because it was not packed according Israeli standards.

Same as blaming the Chinese for cheap goods and manipulation of currency (which almost every nation does) does this idiot understand what the percentage is of stuff imported into the US comes from China? And why the US changed from an exporting country to an importing country? Does he understand that his comment could worsen the diplomatic relation between China and the US?

Have a read, article from 2001: http://larouchepub.com/other/2001/2803_import_bubble.html

Please tell me this is all just a wind up and that you are not serious. As soon as you reference Lyndon Larouche, the convicted felon, no one is going to take you seriously.

If you want to take hints on integrity and honesty from someone with convictions for obstruction of justice, tax evasion and fraud (including indictments and allegations for mail fraud, credit card and fraudulent loans), I don't think Lyndon is the one to ask. Isn't this the guy that went from being a violent Trotskyite, to self avowed fervent Marxist to one that now claims that only he with his recycled faciast views can save the world? If I am not mistaken, he is also the one with the position that the British control the jews who in turn control the banking system and the Queen is their puppet. I think somewhere in the mix is something about the Pope and primitive asian cultures. Whatever the nonsense is, it's garbage, but he gets a gold star for being ahead of his time with his emphasis upon recycling.

Good gravy. For the umpteenth time, the Egyptians have no part of this aid thing. It's not because they are cruel or zionist, but because they dislike Hamas and don't want to have the territory and all of its problems end up back in their laps. No aid went to Egypt ok? There was no burning sun. Have a look at the average historical temperatures. Lows of 10 to highs of 15. Hardly burning. Is it so hard to look something up before you regurgitate propaganda? Or are you inventing this stuff as you go along?

The historic levels of US imports and exports were always close to each other.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statis...rical/gands.txt

The trade deficits support the position that when there has been an imbalance, it has been due to an increase in the cost of fuel imports. Canada is the USA's largest trading partner and it's most important economic ally. However, it's that reliance on Canadian energy imports and raw materials that is bloating the trade deficit. It would be a lot bigger if Canada wasn't the biggest consumer of American products. Having a trade deficit with Canada is hardly an issue of national security since almost all of Canada's major industries are linked back to the USA through various investments and holdings. Factor in the trading relationship with Mexico and the deficit grows bigger. But again, Mexico for all intents and purposes is a key ally and hardly a worry in terms of hostile action. The difference here though is that US goods can flow freely into Canada and to a lesser extent Mexico. This is not possible with protectionist China, hence the trade imbalance with China.

China's key exports of clothing and Walmart quality goods flow out of factories alleged to use very cheap labour. China has fsubsidized the export surge by refusing to allow the yuan to float like other currencies. If the yuan freed up, it is highly likely several Chinese banks would collapse and factories would close, spewing millions of unemployed workers back into the community. The Chinese trade policy doesn't just affect the USA but is a major detriment to other Asian countries like Thailand that have to compete with it. The west has to approach the Chinese dilemma cautiously because too much of a jolt to China would result in economic disaster and civil unrest, which in turn would have an impact on the west.

Edited January 29, 2009 by geriatrickid

[flying]

Please tell me this is all just a wind up and that you are not serious. As soon as you reference Lyndon Larouche, the convicted felon, no one is going to take you seriously.

If you want to take hints on integrity and honesty from someone with convictions for obstruction of justice, tax evasion and fraud

Couple of things not that they matter

These days I wouldn't say any priors automatically make you ineligible.

Obviously our government feels the same way.....

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=86219

Timothy Geithner? Now Treasury Secretary.........hahahahahah

Then also you have folks that are probably closer to being a true patriots locked up for many of the things you describe above. Because many times those things sited are in fact trumped up charges. It is well know & proven that in this Freedom of Speech society there are limits to what you can say & what you refuse to say. Many brilliant thinkers are behind bars

On the other hand you were all for leaving Bernie Madoff out on bail? No Fraud..Tax Evasion or Obstruction there?

Not consistent Dude

Like I said I am not saying it matters to me but when I saw that I did wonder.

Lastly the man Alex is referencing seems to be one Richard Freeman who wrote that info ( I have not read ) Not the Lyndon Larouche you mentioned. I think it was just his site.

Edited January 29, 2009 by flying

[flying]

Ok staying on Topic now about In Banks We Trusted.....

This guys art cracks me up at least these banking ones do.

If your easily offended I wouldnt look at his site though as it does have some

terrible things too.

Edited January 29, 2009 by flying

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Here’s a little statistic that will make your blood boil. Citigroup paid out over $30 billion in compensation last year and has a market cap now of $15.26 Billion!

<deleted>

http://jontaplin.com/2009/01/20/bank-failure/

And they plan on giving them more $$

[lannarebirth]

Here's a little statistic that will make your blood boil. Citigroup paid out over $30 billion in compensation last year and has a market cap now of $15.26 Billion!

<deleted>

http://jontaplin.com/2009/01/20/bank-failure/

And they plan on giving them more $$

If that weren't galling enough, Citigroup has received multiples of its market cap in TARP funds, yet it has not wiped out its common shares or bondholder obligations. They seem to have carte blanche and a blank check to do as they will.

One thing to note however. Many mutual funds, hedge funds have bylaws whereby they can not own stocks priced under $5 or $10. If they don't get C up soon, institutional investors will have to get out.

Edited January 29, 2009 by lannarebirth

[geriatrickid]

Some of the bonuses need to be put in perspective. In many cases they were contractually agreed to. Bank employees that received bonuses included low paid clerical staff. There is a significant savings attached to paying a bonus in lieu of a salary . Most FIs do not pay benefits based upon the bonuses so payroll costs can be contained. The discussion should differentiate questionable agreements that allowed a turd like Merrill Lynch's Thain walk away with a $58million bonus vs Suzy the clerk that received $2,500. to round up her $22,500. salary.

The average lifespan at an investment banking desk is limited. There are just so many 70 hour weeks the kids can work before they burn out. The majority of investment bankers that sit in front of those multiple screens work long hours and forgo social lives, families and the good life. It's why they are predominately male and young. The money paid recognizes the fact that they often perform the work of 2-3 people.

Discretionary bonuses can be avoided in troubled times, but if an employee has the bonus clause that says if your unit makes $XX and meets specified goals then it has to be paid. Even where I work, I have been under a pay freeze, which is discouraging. However, I am given an incentive that says if I have achieved certain productivity results then I get paid a bonus. If they didn't reward me with that, I'd drag my ass or accept one of the job offers I have received.

[meom]

AlexLah, your twisted take on the recent Gaza conflict is nowhere near the mark. The fact of the matter is that the Egyptians stood on the sidelines applauding and the Saudis didn't give a dam_n. They both know that Iran is backing Hamas and it was in the their collective interest that Israel do what it had to do and fast. None of the Gulf states really did much aside from make clucking sounds for public consumption. Iran is their enemy. Shiites vs. Sunni and don't ever forget that.

Hamas is actually Sunni and get most of their backing from Saudi except for their military offshoot which is supported by Iran.

[Naam]

(Reuters) - Government officials seeking to revamp the financial bailout have discussed spending another $1 trillion to $2 trillion to help restore banks to health, the Wall Street Journal said, citing people familiar with the matter.

The paper said the Barack Obama administration could announce its plans within days but has not yet determined the final shape of its new proposal, and the exact details could change.

The administration is also seeking more effective ways to pump money into banks, and is considering buying common shares in the banks, according to the paper.

A Treasury spokeswoman told the paper that "while lots of options are on the table, there are no final decisions" on what she described as a "comprehensive plan."

"The president has made it clear that he'll do whatever it takes to stabilize our financial system so that we can get credit flowing again to families and businesses," she told the paper.

The U.S. Treasury has already disbursed nearly $294 billion from the government $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP to shore up the banking system and faltering U.S. automakers. Billions more have been pledged for particular uses.

A Treasury spokeswoman did not immediately respond to a Reuters email seeking comment that was sent after normal business hours.

The WSJ said another way being considered for the government to inject money into banks is the purchase of convertible bonds, in which the government would be paid interest now but have the option to get common equity later.