Financial Crisis

[Naam]

Sorry I try again to explain my point. I agree with the observation that a technological revolution has occurred. Next in my reply I try to point out where this revolution has taken us. The US have outsourced their manufacturing industry to lower wage countries and moved the US to a service based economy. Even services like (some) call centers have been moved outside the US. The big corporations will try and do anything to lower their cost to instigate higher profits.

Do your homework and try to look beyond your little world on the 63 floor.

this thread could have become interesting again. unfortunately meaningful discussions are interrupted by gurus (like you Alex) who are revealing secrets such as "two plus two equals four".

[midas]

The presence of low wage immigrant workers forced to escape from their impoverished countries by the actions of corporate neo-liberalism and corrupt governments shows the true meaning of globalization.

This is not a temporary change the world is going through, It is the result of changes that are as world changing as the industrial revolution was.

This (orchestrated) financial crisis will be used to impose drastic changes in the way (many) people live just like the events of 9/11 were.

When I asked earlier in this thread if people are so confident about being able to re-employ all these people

particularly in USA and UK- then tell me where the job opportunities will be ( because

nothing much is going to improve without that ).

One person said ' financial services ' ...........is that it? Is that the best that these people

can hope ? And why couldn't those financial services be offered online by bright

very motivated English-speaking graduates sitting at their terminals in Delhi or Mumbai

and now able to phone the rest of the world for a few cents ?

[flying]

The government conferred upon Goldman Sachs the power to steal. The only power Goldman Sachs has comes from the government, not the other way around. Goldman also didn't steal anything from from taxpayers - the government is the only one that has that power."

Looks like they will continue to do so.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/business...bama&st=cse

But really is it any wonder?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib....p;cid=N00009638

Does the end justify the means or absolve any of the guilty parties?

Because the Gov allowed it does it make it right/fair?

[flying]

Actually what this thread has sorely missed was a genuine in 'bull' of the economic and financial situation............would be looking pretty good right now.

Why is that?

Is it the 10% unemployment that makes him shine?

Surely it is not the blip in the markets?

[Naam]

Actually what this thread has sorely missed was a genuine in 'bull' of the economic and financial situation............would be looking pretty good right now.

Why is that? Is it the 10% unemployment that makes him shine? Surely it is not the blip in the markets?

"the" markets do not exist Flying. well... perhaps they do exist in the eyes of Bill, Buck, Hank and Joe who for decades thought and still think "the markets" are 401k mutual cum money market funds (and similarly rubbish) and who lately bought a few gold coins which they keep at the bottom of the cookie jar. if you refer to the afore-mentioned the expression "blip" does indeed apply.

fact however is that the markets are extremely diversified and that in many asset classes the "blips" provided opportunities to double, triple or quadruple the amount invested. personally i am looking forward to more of these "blips" but i have a feeling we will see first a rather big blip to the downside.

[flying]

fact however is that the markets are extremely diversified and that in many asset classes the "blips" provided opportunities to double, triple or quadruple the amount invested. personally i am looking forward to more of these "blips" but i have a feeling we will see first a rather big blip to the downside.

Agreed

Also cannot say I begrudge those that take a risk....... a reward.

Of course I also agree we will see the big blip to the downside soon enough.

I was just mentioning that if this rally is what they are calling "the bulls were right" It only means they got a mini rally & it will be short lived at best.

But of course those that move mountains will reap large rewards.

Come this October these days could be called the good old days...or not

Unemployment here is really getting cooking now. Lucky are those getting out of typical type jobs as they are seeing Unemployment benefits extended after their 26 weeks an additional 33 weeks. Good on them

I was thinking about the unemployment here today & how folks say ..."ah but it is a lagging indicator" Now that we look back from our current over 10% spot at the days of 6% when they said the same thing (ah its a lagging indicator)

It takes on a humorous slant.

Edited July 20, 2009 by flying

[midas]

Hi Chaimai

As you are involved in the property market I would be interested in your comments

about what appears to be a relatively recent trend in the UK that I have missed through spending

all my time in Thailand and Australia.

There now seem to be quite a number of " professional traders " with websites that are offering homeowners

the chance to dispose of their property quickly without the need to deal with real estate agents.

This is just one example :-

http://www.ukinstantsale.com/help.php

They all seem to be doing the same -paying between 75 percent to 80 percent of " market value "

Because we've heard so often that banks are not lending, I'm just curious to know where these

companies that seem to be buying so many homes are able to get their funds in this economic climate ?

Edited July 20, 2009 by midas

[midas]

Chaimai

I even noticed on that website in the previous post they say

say this to win business

The property market is about to fall, maybe even crash. I want out instantly

Many people believe that this is about to happen. If you do too then please pick up the phone and call UK Instant Sale. Don't get stuck with your property for years in a slump. Be rid of it instantly.

So where are they going to get funds to be able to hang on " for years in a slump " ?

[flying]

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-ne...anks-could-fail

US Sen Bunning: FDIC's Bair Said Up To 500 More Banks Could Fail

By Jessica Holzer, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Chairman Sheila Bair believes up to 500 more banks could fail, a U.S. senator said Bair told him in a recent meeting.

"She told us that unless something dramatic happens, we could lose up to 500 more banks," Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., said Thursday at a hearing of the Senate Banking Committee on the foreclosure crisis.

Bunning said Bair made the remarks in a recent meeting.

"That means that people who make mortgages in local places .... people that could really help in a foreclosure will not be there," Bunning said.

-By Jessica Holzer, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9228; jessica.holzer@ dowjones.com

[AlexLah]

[midas]

If this is the new " normal " = no quick rebound in spending = not enough salary for a mortage = painfully slow housing recovery

Recession forces a million to work part-time

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...-part-time.html

[Chaimai]

<br />Chaimai<br /><br />I even noticed on that website in the previous post they say<br />say this to win business <img src="style_emoticons/default/huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /> <br /><i><br /><b>The property market is about to fall, maybe even crash. I want out instantly</b><br /><br />Many people believe that this is about to happen. If you do too then please pick up the phone and call UK Instant Sale. Don't get stuck with your property for years in a slump. Be rid of it instantly.</i><br /><br />So where are they going to get funds to be able to hang on " for years in a slump " ? <img src="style_emoticons/default/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Sounds like fairly despicable marketing to me - playing on people's fears. Scaremongering is now a major UK industry and some people are getting rich out of it. Reminds me of an old boss who wanted to put an open coffin in our banking hall to encourage customers to take out wills - a brilliant piece of marketing, but insensitive and wholly inappropriate for a bank in the mid 1980's.

Response to earlier question to follow soon.

[AlexLah]

Snip:

Now White has been proved right -- to an almost apocalyptical degree. And yet gloating is the last thing on his mind. He, the chief economist at the central bank for central banks, predicted the disaster, and yet not even his own clientèle was willing to believe him. It was probably the biggest failure of the world's central bankers since the founding of the BIS in 1930. They knew everything and did nothing. Their gigantic machinery of analysis kept spitting out new scenarios of doom, but they might as well have been transmitted directly into space.

A bit long but interesting article: http://www.spiegel.de/international/busine...,635051,00.html

[AlexLah]

2 pounds of frozen meat for a little over a million dollars?

http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/contrac...&primeid=27

I thought my Kobe beef was expensive..........

[AlexLah]

ooooops, sorry for above post.

They actually purchased a lot for the emergency food program.

USDA BUYS FROZEN HAMS:

The Agricultural Marketing Service of the U.S. Department of

Agriculture today purchased 760,000 pounds of ham products at a cost of approximately $1,191,000. These purchases were made with funds authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. This product will be used for distribution in the Emergency Food Assistance Program. Details of today's purchase follow:

Pork Pounds Awarded Prices No. of Bids

Product Inv. No. 047 Accepted

2-LB Ham, Sliced, Frozen 760,000 $1.5400-$1.5900 1 of 2

[Chaimai]

Chaimai

I even noticed on that website in the previous post they say

say this to win business

The property market is about to fall, maybe even crash. I want out instantly

Many people believe that this is about to happen. If you do too then please pick up the phone and call UK Instant Sale. Don't get stuck with your property for years in a slump. Be rid of it instantly.

So where are they going to get funds to be able to hang on " for years in a slump " ?

Thanks for the question.

I had never heard of this outfit but my first reaction was "ambulance chasers". A quick search at Companies House reveals the following:-

Name & Registered Office:

UK INSTANT SALE LIMITED

84 BOOKERHILL ROAD

HIGH WYCOMBE

BUCKS

HP12 4EX

Company No. 06277083

More interestingly:-

Accounting Reference Date: 30/06

Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2008 (DORMANT)

Next Accounts Due: 31/03/2010

Last Return Made Up To: 12/06/2008

Next Return Due: 10/07/2009 OVERDUE

i.e. a dormant company as 30th June 2006 and overdue in submitting it's 2009 Annual Return. I have not bothered to pay GBP 3.00 to look at their filed accounts as I am certain that there is more meat on a butcher's knife.

In short they are a low-level bunch of opportunists praying on those in difficult circumstances. Only if you were in deep cr4p would you contact these people. Even then I would suggest that going to auction would get you a better market price.

Everything has a value and they would seek to buy low (from desperate sellers) and sell high(er). Probably purely speculative, cherry-picking the weakest sellers.

There are always funds available to finance these operations. Cash is king, and it will buy more property now than 12 months ago and more than in 12 months time (in my opinion ).

In short these people are (legitimate) scammers, looking to take advantage of the vulnerable. They are not accountable to any particular body i.e. the FSA and even estate agents have their own association and code of practise.

[Chaimai]

If this is the new " normal " = no quick rebound in spending = not enough salary for a mortage = painfully slow housing recovery

Recession forces a million to work part-time

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...-part-time.html

I think we all agree that this will be a slow recovery. Like it, or not, the UK (and elsewhere) is such a property-based economy. Confidence and activity in that sector MUST (imho) be restored to underpin anything like a recovery.

I remain convinced that there is a decent sized demand for housing but (lack of) availability of credit will hamper recover. Two reports below highlight the issues (note that a 48% decline can become a 17% increase - now that is my sort of positive 'spin' )

Gross mortgage lending jumps 17 per cent

20 July, 2009

Gross mortgage lending in June was an estimated £12.3 billion, a 17% increase from £10.5 billion in May and a 48% decline from £24.8 billion in June 2008, according to new data from the Council of Mortgage Lenders.

Gross lending in the second quarter of 2009 totalled an estimated £33.3 billion, unchanged from the first quarter, which was the lowest quarterly reading since the first quarter of 2001.

CML economist, Paul Samter said: “The pick-up in June’s lending largely reflects seasonal factors, and these may well support lending volumes at moderately higher levels over the rest of the summer. But the combined effects of the restricted nature of mortgage funding, reduced number of active lenders, weak labour market and limited consumer demand are likely to hold back any significant and underlying improvement. Our forecast for gross mortgage lending of £145 billion this year is unchanged."

<H1 style="MARGIN: auto 0cm">Banks to blame for low lending figures</H1>20 July, 2009

Peter Bolton King, chief executive of the National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA), reacting to the Council of Mortgage Lender's lending figures for June, released earlier today, comments:

"I am not surprised to see lending down by 48% from this time last year, as the banks continue to stifle the recovery of the housing market. Our research has shown that currently one in four people recognise the banks as the biggest barrier to the property market at present.

"When prospective buyers are granted a mortgage in principle they are then faced with further difficulties in actually getting the banks to release the funds. A number of NAEA members across the country are reporting complications for homebuyers who have mortgage approval but are unable to obtain the funds from the lenders. We believe this is due to the banks limiting the amount they are prepared to lend on any given day.

"There are plenty of prospective homebuyers out there, but the banks are once again acting as an impediment to the market. Whilst we don't endorse the reckless lending we were seeing 18 months ago, the current situation is farcical and does nothing to improve the housing market and indeed the wider economy."

[flying]

Martin Armstrong has a new paper out....

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17502333/The-Gol...-Real-Dark-Pool

Not surprisingly it is on Goldman Sachs.

They are getting the attention these days aren't they?

On a side note I hate this new scribd format so many are using now.

Edited July 20, 2009 by flying

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Tennessee Ernie Ford (would have) said it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj01Sqi0zic...feature=related

Edited July 21, 2009 by BEENTHEREDONETHAT

[midas]

These people have adopted Thailand's tactics............revenue falls so increase the liabilty for those remaining

Revealed: taxman is £22bn out of pocket

...........................dramatically increasing the likelihood of large-scale tax rises and spending cuts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...et-1754390.html

[samuibeachcomber]

ooooops, sorry for above post.

They actually purchased a lot for the emergency food program.

USDA BUYS FROZEN HAMS:

The Agricultural Marketing Service of the U.S. Department of

Agriculture today purchased 760,000 pounds of ham products at a cost of approximately $1,191,000. These purchases were made with funds authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. This product will be used for distribution in the Emergency Food Assistance Program. Details of today's purchase follow:

Pork Pounds Awarded Prices No. of Bids

Product Inv. No. 047 Accepted

2-LB Ham, Sliced, Frozen 760,000 $1.5400-$1.5900 1 of 2

sounds like they are getting ready forthe inevitable

[midas]

ooooops, sorry for above post.

They actually purchased a lot for the emergency food program.

USDA BUYS FROZEN HAMS:

The Agricultural Marketing Service of the U.S. Department of

Agriculture today purchased 760,000 pounds of ham products at a cost of approximately $1,191,000. These purchases were made with funds authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. This product will be used for distribution in the Emergency Food Assistance Program. Details of today's purchase follow:

Pork Pounds Awarded Prices No. of Bids

Product Inv. No. 047 Accepted

2-LB Ham, Sliced, Frozen 760,000 $1.5400-$1.5900 1 of 2

sounds like they are getting ready forthe inevitable

Yeah in the FEEMA camps there will cries " oh no not ham again "

[flying]

This is pretty funny & should come as no surprise since the banks right hand rarely knows what the left is doing....

Wells Fargo Sues Self, Hires Different Lawyers To Respond

from the you-can't-make-this-up dept

Ah, the nuttiness of our legal system. Reader Bettawrekonize sends in the news that Wells Fargo has sued itself in a foreclosure dispute:

In this particular case, Wells Fargo holds the first and second mortgages on a condominium, according to Sarasota, Fla., attorney Dan McKillop, who represents the condo owner. As holder of the first, Wells Fargo is suing all other lien holders, including the holder of the second, which is itself.

And, of course, being on the receiving end of a lawsuit, the bank has hired some lawyers (different than the ones it hired to file the lawsuit) to respond:

Wells Fargo hired Florida Default Law Group., P.L., of Tampa, Fla., to file the lawsuit against itself.

And then Wells Fargo hired another Tampa law firm -- Kass, Shuler, Solomon, Spector, Foyle & Singer P.A. -- to defend itself against its own lawsuit, according to court documents.

Wells Fargo's defense lawyers even filed an answer to their client's own complaint.

"Defendant admits that it is the owner and holder of a mortgage encumbering the subject real property," the answer reads. "All other allegations of the complaint are denied."

Isn't it great to know that, post-bailout, banks aren't wasting all that taxpayer money we gave them?

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090713/0133235525.shtml

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/a...argo-bank-sues/

Edited July 21, 2009 by flying

[BlackJack]

In 1912, a special subcommittee was convened by the Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee, Arsene P. Pujo. Its purpose was to investigate the "money trust," a small group of Wall Street bankers that exerted powerful control over the nation's finances. The committee's majority report concluded that a group of financial leaders had abused the public trust to consolidate control over many industries. The Pujo Committee report created a climate of public opinion that lead to the passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914.

I guess what we are seeing now is common criminal behavior in that if at first you dont succeed try try again.

Keep the heat up on central bankers every way you can and in time maybe the people can slay Goliath Sachs.

sign the pledge or send letters demanding reform - dont be an armchair politician or financial adviser - do something.

[midas]

ooooops, sorry for above post.

They actually purchased a lot for the emergency food program.

USDA BUYS FROZEN HAMS:

The Agricultural Marketing Service of the U.S. Department of

Agriculture today purchased 760,000 pounds of ham products at a cost of approximately $1,191,000. These purchases were made with funds authorized by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. This product will be used for distribution in the Emergency Food Assistance Program. Details of today's purchase follow:

Pork Pounds Awarded Prices No. of Bids

Product Inv. No. 047 Accepted

2-LB Ham, Sliced, Frozen 760,000 $1.5400-$1.5900 1 of 2

sounds like they are getting ready forthe inevitable

A reporter tested the market and found wheras this purchase by Department of

Agriculture works out at $ 1.56 per pound the reporter was quoted $0.80 cents per pound.

Still doesnt matter its not their money

[AlexLah]

The spokesman at the Department of Agriculture Mr. D. Head, answered that the price paid for premium grade ham was calculated by using the F.P.I index, (Future Price Inflation). The actual delivery of the ham will take place somewhere in the beginning of 2010 the spokesman stated.

[teletiger]

The spokesman at the Department of Agriculture Mr. D. Head, answered that the price paid for premium grade ham was calculated by using the F.P.I index, (Future Price Inflation). The actual delivery of the ham will take place somewhere in the beginning of 2010 the spokesman stated.

"Head" of Dept of Agriculture admits 50% inflation over next 6 months!!

"Heads will roll" says White house.

Pork always was a Washington favorite. What does the "D" stand for....dead?

Regards.

[AlexLah]

Dick......

[Abrak]

Dick......

Its the reporter who is a &lt;deleted&gt; - cant even report the trade properly.

[teletiger]

Are we all sitting down?

"The total exposure of the US government to the financial crisis could hit $23.7 trillion (£14.3tn), according to a watchdog report."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8160282.stm

Regards.