Financial Crisis

[Naam]

can someone explain to me what sdr's are? some posters are intimating that these could be the new world currency,can anyone explain this to me,and can any of you financial guys tell me the route to how i buy some gold?

For example to buy shares in co. producing gold,or to buy physical gold to hedge against any possible future loss of money held in banks.

any advice/help would be appreciated.

SDRs = Special Drawing Rights

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/sdr.htm

[12DrinkMore]

You took that out of context. I said he is an idiot if he thinks....

the context does not matter. you have been using the expression "idiot" left and right. reading that from somebody who opens a thread (link below) makes me

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Girls-Smalle...ml&hl=girls

[12DrinkMore]

can someone explain to me what sdr's are? some posters are intimating that these could be the new world currency,can anyone explain this to me,and can any of you financial guys tell me the route to how i buy some gold?

For example to buy shares in co. producing gold,or to buy physical gold to hedge against any possible future loss of money held in banks.

any advice/help would be appreciated.

I suppose I am one of those "New Currency" posters. It is far too early to say how this will develop. The important issue is that the USD, being a national reserve currency, is under the control of the world's biggest debtor. Which means that although the US cannot theoretically default, the risk to all the creditors is immense. The Chinese, in particular, are not happy with the current situation. They export solid manufactured goods, comprising labour and material, and receive a bunch of numbers on a bank statement, which cost the US nothing but a small amount of interest, also denominated in USD's and so can be issued at zero cost as well.

Anything which can be issued at zero cost and is subject to the whims of the policiticians and bankers is unlikely to be a long term store of value

But here is the latest from the horse's mouth.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/speeches/2009/090409.htm

Beyond the Crisis: Sustainable Growth and a Stable International Monetary System

Speech by Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund

At the Sixth Annual Bundesbank Lecture

Berlin, September 4, 2009

And the relevant bit is here

Turning to my third question, let me now share some thoughts with you on the international monetary system. By this, I mean the broad set of rules and institutions that govern international payments.

In the wake of the financial crisis, concerns about the current system have once again emerged. Critics have noted that the role of the U.S. dollar may have been seriously undermined by the United States’ economic and financial problems. In particular, they worry that its large fiscal imbalances present serious risks to the value of the dollar, and hence of disorderly adjustment.

I note, however, that the U.S. dollar actually strengthened during the crisis. In my view, this reflects the dollar’s status as an unrivaled safe haven asset.

The question about what shape the international monetary system should take is an important one, and one of the oldest in international finance. As early as the 1940s, John Maynard Keynes proposed the creation of a super-sovereign currency, the so-called “bancor”. More recent proposals call for the creation of a new world reserve currency, possibly based on the SDR—the composite currency issued by the IMF. Another possibility, and perhaps the least unlikely alternative, is for a multi-reserve currency system to emerge, with currencies like the euro, the yen, and even the renminbi serving as co-equal anchors.

It is my sense that this question will be decided over the coming decade, rather than the coming months, based as much on political considerations as economic ones. As the global economy evolves, we are likely to see new currencies rise in stature and international usage, leading perhaps to a system with several co-equal anchor currencies. The international community may even decide that the creation and promotion of a new reserve currency is what would be best, though this would of course require a significant step-up in global policy coordination.

It is my view that the current international monetary system, despite its problems, is working better than is often said. It proved resilient during the recent crisis, and near-term concerns about the dollar can be eased with appropriate policy actions from the U.S. authorities. Indeed, durably anchoring the fiscal, monetary and financial regulatory policies of the main reserve issuer would go a long way towards stabilizing the international monetary system.

But I believe it could be made even more resilient if countries’ appetite for self-insurance—and hence their demand for reserves—could be reduced. This demand, which is expected to rise further in the wake of the crisis, is at the heart of a recurring source of instability of the IMS: it makes it considerably more challenging for the main reserve issuer to achieve fiscal and external balance while providing sufficient safe assets to the rest of the world. (Economists refer to this as the “Triffin dilemma”.) Moreover, large stockpiles of foreign reserves breed uncertainty since the management of these assets could be driven by non-market considerations.

Because self-insurance is costly, reducing the demand for reserves would also deliver dividends to individual countries. By investing in foreign reserves rather than in their own economies, countries with large reserve stockpiles have missed out on potentially high-return domestic investments, like education and infrastructure.

I see various ways to reduce the need for self-insurance. At the country level, sound economic policies clearly can reduce the need for insurance over time as policy credibility is enhanced and confidence in currencies is strengthened. At the global level, we should seek ways to reduce the impact of volatile capital flows and hence their potential to disrupt financial systems. Third-party insurance should in theory be the most efficient alternative, but pricing uncertainties and significant counterparty risks have prevented the emergence of a market for this. Borrowing from a global or regional reserves pool, or through access to a lender of last resort, is in practice the most likely alternative.

Indeed, in recognition of the need to strengthen systemic insurance mechanisms, the international community has taken steps to strengthen the Fund’s role. At its April summit, G-20 leaders called for a near tripling of our lending resources to $750 billion, and over the past year a number of steps have been taken to reform and expand the Fund’s lending facilities.

I believe that the IMF could do even more to support the international monetary system in the future:

• The procedures related to accessing our short-term Flexible Credit Line and other lending facilities could be modified to make this form of insurance more predictable.

• SDR allocations could be made more responsive to global developments and flexible to country circumstances.

• The Fund’s resource base (or insurance pool) could be increased further. Even after its recent tripling, it is still smaller as a share of global GDP—and even smaller as a share of global capital flows—than it was when the Fund was created.

a search for "Triffin's dilemma" provides some more material on this, here is a start

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/...ng/mm_sc_03.htm

And moving off this topic slightly

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

gives the latest US debt down to the penny. But far more amusing, if, in fact, anybody could find 11 trillion USD's of debt amusing, is a link fro that page

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resourc...t.htm#DebtOwner

Catch this in small print at the bottom

How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

Make your check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it is a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G

Bureau of the Public Debt

P. O. Box 2188

Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

Anybody around here wanting to help? Don't all rush at once.

:D

I wonder why it's called dept G (possibly not the busiest department in the US government )?

Maybe because whenever they receive a donation the whole department rolls around the floor "Geeeee, another sucker!"

:D

Edited September 7, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[midas]

Have a look at this clip, that forced vaccination is just a minor issue you have to worry about.

I dont agree with you Alex

When I saw this headline on channelnewsasia ( a reliable source - agree ? ) this morning I started googling about this subject again.

This is conditioning - preselling and what if you just dont want the bl**dy thing..... PLUS i would want to know exactly what is in this

concoction- that is not unreasonable surely ? Everyone is talking about Squaline being in it which attacks the immune system.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp...1003266/1/.html

and then I read this :-

http://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/2009/09/...blocks-planned/

and they are openly advertising for these :-

http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=292

Edited September 7, 2009 by midas

[samuibeachcomber]

thanks 12DM,for attached info.Why am i getting the feeling that the G8 in paticular and the IMF with their SDR's are just printing money that really has no real value.I mean we could all do that if we set up a printing press,but unlike them we would end up in jail.And is all this unearnt money going into circulation going to erode the real value of our money in the future,rendering our hard earned savings as useless as in the weimar republic back in 1923?

[losworld]

What about making Thailand a capital hub or "hubcap" for short? Only problem is they generally fall off and roll into the ditch when they hit a bump.

[badge]

The Shell Game - How the Federal Reserve is Monetizing Debt

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/shell-g...zing-debt/25806

Also this which I have not gotten to yet but may be a good listen

inflation vs deflation Puplava interview

with Robert Prechter

http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-0905-3a.asx

opens in windows media player

Prechter is an idiot if he thinks that interest rates are not controlled by the Fed. What is he thinking ? They have their meetings to decide what to do with interest rates.

Prechter also doesnt seem to understand that a high amount of this debt and derivative paper he is talking about exsists to suppress the price of gold. The Plunge Protection Team does exsist.

All central banks set their own rates. And all central banks FOLLOW the credit markets lead on this rate setting. This is almost 100% reliable.

For example in the USA, the FED FUNDS rate is correlated to short term credit rates(3month TBills); 3month yields go up, the FED decides in their meeting to raise rates.

[flying]

thanks 12DM,for attached info.Why am i getting the feeling that the G8 in paticular and the IMF with their SDR's are just printing money that really has no real value.I mean we could all do that if we set up a printing press,but unlike them we would end up in jail.And is all this unearnt money going into circulation going to erode the real value of our money in the future,rendering our hard earned savings as useless as in the weimar republic back in 1923?

Hey SBC

Have not seen you here in awhile.

I would logically think as you said....

Then again for us here in Amerika it seems all money is fiat debt to begin with since it is borrowed into existence. Others buy some of the debt banking on TPTB will tax the h_ll out of our future earnings & pay them back. Our world here is now just a long term mortgage where we never touch the principal just labor to pay the interest on the debt.

But I also agree in another sense as you suggested that when they increase the money supply our dimes do not become two nickels but one.

They have to steal value from the foolish who thought the right thing to do was save. Seems like a theme has developed here & that is to reward the culprits & penalize the rest.

But then again another 1 million 75 thousand firearms were sold here just in August 09 So it seems folks are not unaware of future problems reaching many levels here.

[12DrinkMore]

thanks 12DM,for attached info.Why am i getting the feeling that the G8 in paticular and the IMF with their SDR's are just printing money that really has no real value.I mean we could all do that if we set up a printing press,but unlike them we would end up in jail.And is all this unearnt money going into circulation going to erode the real value of our money in the future,rendering our hard earned savings as useless as in the weimar republic back in 1923?

That is indeed the big debate. Are we going to have deflation or hyperinflation?

Leaving out the debate about what they are and how can they be meaningfully measured, the question is where is all this fresh money now and where will it go? Bernanke claims that he can beat deflation in any shape or form by pushing and pulling his levers, including the unorthodox ones, and by some direct mechanism the cash is forced into peoples pockets via zero cost credit and spent boosting the economy.

But the forces opposing Bernanke are

1. The banks, who are hoarding the money because they need to prop up their balance sheets and the risk of lending to risky borrowers, plus they have a load of nasty assets on their books not marked to market.

2. The swing in the population's mood from "zero saving and buy on debt" to "pay down debt and save".

And there begins the argument, which hasn't been decided yet.

As regards savings, well, in terms of real estate you can now buy a much bigger house for the same price than a few years ago, same with commercial property and lcd TVs, PCs etc. So in a sense your savings have gained in value. The CPI is hovering around zero, and, coupled with a large number of unemployed / semi employed, there is also no upward pressure on wages. So I can't see where hyperinflation, is about to spring from. I see a long drawn out recession/depression as a much more likely scenario, with a contraction in debt and increased willingness to save for the future.

A bigger factor is the USD, which is looking a bit weak long term. Especially if you rely on USD savings to fund a life in Thailand.

[Naam]

But then again another 1 million 75 thousand firearms were sold here just in August 09 So it seems folks are not unaware of future problems reaching many levels here.

what do these folks plan? will they commit armed robbery in supermarkets when they have no money to pay for groceries or will they eat their firearms?

[Naam]

thanks 12DM,for attached info.Why am i getting the feeling that the G8 in paticular and the IMF with their SDR's are just printing money that really has no real value.I mean we could all do that if we set up a printing press,but unlike them we would end up in jail.And is all this unearnt money going into circulation going to erode the real value of our money in the future,rendering our hard earned savings as useless as in the weimar republic back in 1923?

That is indeed the big debate. Are we going to have deflation or hyperinflation?

Leaving out the debate about what they are and how can they be meaningfully measured, the question is where is all this fresh money now and where will it go? Bernanke claims that he can beat deflation in any shape or form by pushing and pulling his levers, including the unorthodox ones, and by some direct mechanism the cash is forced into peoples pockets via zero cost credit and spent boosting the economy.

But the forces opposing Bernanke are

1. The banks, who are hoarding the money because they need to prop up their balance sheets and the risk of lending to risky borrowers, plus they have a load of nasty assets on their books not marked to market.

2. The swing in the population's mood from "zero saving and buy on debt" to "pay down debt and save".

And there begins the argument, which hasn't been decided yet.

As regards savings, well, in terms of real estate you can now buy a much bigger house for the same price than a few years ago, same with commercial property and lcd TVs, PCs etc. So in a sense your savings have gained in value. The CPI is hovering around zero, and, coupled with a large number of unemployed / semi employed, there is also no upward pressure on wages. So I can't see where hyperinflation, is about to spring from. I see a long drawn out recession/depression as a much more likely scenario, with a contraction in debt and increased willingness to save for the future.

A bigger factor is the USD, which is looking a bit weak long term. Especially if you rely on USD savings to fund a life in Thailand.

neither can i!

[Abrak]

But then again another 1 million 75 thousand firearms were sold here just in August 09 So it seems folks are not unaware of future problems reaching many levels here.

what do these folks plan? will they commit armed robbery in supermarkets when they have no money to pay for groceries or will they eat their firearms?

There must at least be the possibility that they plan to shoot themselves....

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

But then again another 1 million 75 thousand firearms were sold here just in August 09 So it seems folks are not unaware of future problems reaching many levels here.

what do these folks plan? will they commit armed robbery in supermarkets when they have no money to pay for groceries or will they eat their firearms?

There must at least be the possibility that they plan to shoot themselves....

I think the banks are most likely on top of the list for grocery money.

[CoffeeCorner]

Put the guns away

Recovery has started

7 September, 2009

The UK’s economy will grow next year, according to the latest British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) Economic Forecast.

September’s forecast shows that despite a further downward revision in GDP expectations for this year, the BCC is more upbeat about economic growth in 2010, and has reduced its forecast for peak unemployment.

The main features of the BCC forecast are:

• The UK will see a large GDP decline of 4.3% in 2009, followed by positive growth of 1.1% in 2010 and 1.9% in 2011. In June we predicted a 3.8% GDP fall for 2009 and a small 0.6% increase in 2010.

• The current recession - recording peak to trough declines of 5.5% - is much worse than the recession of the early 1990s. However, it is less severe than the early 1980s recession, when GDP recorded cumulative falls of 6.0%.

• Further big increases in unemployment are expected, but at a reduced pace. Unemployment is likely to rise from 2.43 million to a peak of just over 3 million, or 9.6% of the workforce, in mid-2010. In June we predicted unemployment would hit 3.2 million.

• Public sector borrowing is forecast to total some 12.5% of GDP in 2009-10 and 2010-11. Public sector debt is set to rise to dangerous levels in the next few years, in excess of 80% of GDP.

• The BCC believes that the MPC will use the full £175 billion allocated to the Quantitative Easing (QE) programme. Another increase in the size of the programme, to at least £200 billion, will probably be needed to ensure that the economy does not falter.

[12DrinkMore]

So, you think that the banks have been quietly dumping toxic assets onto the taxpayer, rebuilding their balance sheets and promising not to bring the economy into the next crisis? Well, our favourite bankers have come up with another "securitisation product".

And guess what? The bastards will be collecting on you when you die.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business...tml?_r=1&hp

The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash — $400,000 for a $1 million policy, say, depending on the life expectancy of the insured person. Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.

And here the gruesome details

To help understand how to manage these risks, Ms. Tillwitz and her colleague Jan Buckler — a mathematics whiz with a Ph.D. in nuclear engineering — traveled the world visiting firms that handle life settlements. “We do not want to rate a deal that blows up,” Ms. Tillwitz said.

The solution? A bond made up of life settlements would ideally have policies from people with a range of diseases — leukemia, lung cancer, heart disease, breast cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer’s. That is because if too many people with leukemia are in the securitization portfolio, and a cure is developed, the value of the bond would plummet.

Might be a few moral hazards lurking in this lot.

Ciba-Man : "Hey, Obe1knobe, we've just discovered a cure for lung cancer, the peeps will live on for another decade"

GS-Man : "Sorry guys, can't let you put this on the market"

Obe1knobe + Ciba Man : "Oh why?"

GS-Man : "Well, it would cut our bonuses"

GS-Man : "But you don't happen to have few virulent strains of that 2009 pig flu hanging around the lab, do you?"

Undeterred, Wall Street is racing ahead for a simple reason: With $26 trillion of life insurance policies in force in the United States, the market could be huge.

How much of that 71,000 USDs per man. woman, child is funded? Is this another black hole coming along?

[lannarebirth]

Wow! Speechless.

[12DrinkMore]

Put the guns away

Recovery has started

-and bring out the cannons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...rn-1783011.html

"The UK economy faces serious challenges that could limit the pace of recovery in the next few years, including: overly indebted consumers, high unemployment, a fragile banking sector, persistent weakness in bank lending, weak growth in the eurozone, and most importantly, the need to slash government borrowing and curtail debt. These problems will inevitably dampen UK growth prospects for a considerable period."

[12DrinkMore]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...y-printing.html

Apart from the rest, which is also worth a read.

"The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

"He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin.

Well put.

[Abrak]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...y-printing.html

Apart from the rest, which is also worth a read.

"The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

"He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin.

Well put.

Well I wonder if things will work out that way. Maybe I guess but just maybe.

When someone is spending tomorrow's money today, it is possible that they will learn it wasnt their money but somebody elses. Its a bit like banks turning round and saying that people were foolish to buy at the top of the market only to learn they were foolish enough to lend.

'What gets lent, gets spent.' Ancient proverb from Abrak, father of two.

[AlexLah]

I dont agree with you Alex ohmy.gif

When I saw this headline on channelnewsasia ( a reliable source - agree ? ) this morning I started googling about this subject again.

This is conditioning - preselling and what if you just dont want the bl**dy thing..... PLUS i would want to know exactly what is in this

concoction- that is not unreasonable surely ? Everyone is talking about Squaline being in it which attacks the immune system.

Oh my holy mosy nosey Midas, can you imagine those evil banksters betting on your life knowing that the eaters of the pig will possibly die by the pig (flu) after receiving their flu jabs?. And when you refuse you will be fined and/or be put in some kind of isolation center and be injected anyway.

Midas I can tell you that in my home country at least you are not forced to take the jab, and I have seen some reports that a large part of nurses and doctors refuse to take it. Remember a few months back that this company Baxter or something send contaminated samples to Europe for testing?

They tried on a few homeless Polish people and they died....... (If I remember well).

As you might be well aware of it Midas and other very well respected members, contributors and readers of this historical topic, the US (not only) has a bit of a history experimenting on it's citizens so I would not be surprised if they would like to try again. And yes these facts are very well documented so no conspiracy theory this time.

I mentioned a while ago a possible solution to the crisis just as a teaser (plan remember? Then look at the warnings given, they say that the young and elderly are at most risk to catch the flu, (Do I hear a bell ringing).

OK enough fear mongering. You talk about conditioning, are you aware how the people in the US (and other parts of the world) have been conditioned over the last 90 years? And if you are able to connect the dots, can see that it all contributed to the mess we are now in?

The following docu is a long one but for sure will reveal what tricks/strategies have been used to manipulate the mind of many and change a society from a buy what is needed to a buy what is wanted/desired culture.

I suggest you down the docu (Just open part 2,3 and 4 in a new window and press the play button, once it start play press pause)) and watch one part (one hour) a day (there are four parts) so the info can sink down and you can reflect (do I say that right)?

I can assure you after watching it, you most likely will look at things in a very different way.

A warning!

Some parts show a few graphic images of war atrocities.

I believe this docu is essential viewing for all of us that are either reading or contributing to this thread.

Why? I will not explain, you will understand once you finished.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151#

Take care all!

[flying]

But then again another 1 million 75 thousand firearms were sold here just in August 09 So it seems folks are not unaware of future problems reaching many levels here.

what do these folks plan? will they commit armed robbery in supermarkets when they have no money to pay for groceries or will they eat their firearms?

Seems most folks just foresee a coming general disorder. A disorder sizable enough to not want to place all their faith in someone else coming to rescue them.

Remember those numbers are based on NIC numbers meaning applied for permits & guns acquired. The folks you mention dont apply for purchases

Edited September 7, 2009 by flying

[flying]

Well I wonder if things will work out that way. Maybe I guess but just maybe.

When someone is spending tomorrow's money today, it is possible that they will learn it wasnt their money but somebody elses. Its a bit like banks turning round and saying that people were foolish to buy at the top of the market only to learn they were foolish enough to lend.

'What gets lent, gets spent.' Ancient proverb from Abrak, father of two.

What gets lent to USA gets interest,

Debt collectors may use more than a phone to pester the spenders.

Funny though that it is the Chinese that are having to quote the founding fathers to our govt. Goes well with the China flag flying at the white house. I mean since they are the 1st lien holder & all

Pretty shameful actually this current state of affairs. I am not sure that is what you meant but it seems the standard lack of morals answer these days. Along the lines of well the bank was foolish to lend it to me ( buy into my promise to repay )

[sokal]

The Shell Game - How the Federal Reserve is Monetizing Debt

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/shell-g...zing-debt/25806

Also this which I have not gotten to yet but may be a good listen

inflation vs deflation Puplava interview

with Robert Prechter

http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2009-0905-3a.asx

opens in windows media player

Prechter is an idiot if he thinks that interest rates are not controlled by the Fed. What is he thinking ? They have their meetings to decide what to do with interest rates.

Prechter also doesnt seem to understand that a high amount of this debt and derivative paper he is talking about exsists to suppress the price of gold. The Plunge Protection Team does exsist.

All central banks set their own rates. And all central banks FOLLOW the credit markets lead on this rate setting. This is almost 100% reliable.

For example in the USA, the FED FUNDS rate is correlated to short term credit rates(3month TBills); 3month yields go up, the FED decides in their meeting to raise rates.

Yes but the fed buybacks and QE effect these rates.

[flying]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...y-printing.html

"Gold is definitely an alternative, but when we buy, the price goes up. We have to do it carefully so as not to stimulate the markets," he added.

The comments suggest that China has become the driving force in the gold market and can be counted on to

buy whenever there is a price dip, putting a floor under any correction

[Naam]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

"Gold is definitely an alternative, but when we buy, the price goes up. We have to do it carefully so as not to stimulate the markets," he added.

The comments suggest that China has become the driving force in the gold market and can be counted on to buy whenever there is a price dip, putting a floor under any correction

"we normally buy by tip-toeing into the markets when the Europeans are on lunch break, the Americans drive to work steering their cars with a knee because one hand is needed to hold the doughnut, the other hand a plastic cup containing light brown water and the Japanese are frolicking in bars after office hours. after we bought gold without having stimulated the markets we do the Rumpelstilzchen (aka Rumpelstiltzken) dance in Tiananmen Square."

[Misty]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...y-printing.html

Apart from the rest, which is also worth a read.

"The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

"He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin.

Well put.

Well put, and interesting quotations. And yet perhaps there's a little bit more to that story:

"Chinese banks lent Rmb7,370 billion of local currency loans in the first half, a figure equivalent to 45 per cent of half-year gross domestic product, according to BNP Paribas, which said it knew of no other economy that had created credit on such a scale since the second World War." - Irish Times 21 Aug 09

"China's top banking regulator on Sunday warned of the risks from surging bank lending, singling out the dangers of unhealthy growth in the property market....His warning comes after June's lending figures hit 1.53 trillion yuan (223.9 billion), higher than analyst expectations. The figure pushed the accumulative first-half new yuan loans by Chinese banks to 7.37 trillian yuan ($1.1 trillion), far exceeding the government's 5 trillion yuan minimum target for the entire year. " - Reuters 19 Jul 09

"After losing almost three-quarters of their value between late 2007 and the end of 2008, (Chinese) shares have gone back on the rampage. They are up by more than 70% this year, and that encompasses a wrenching 15% decline since late July....The market’s remarkable rise comes with enough caveats to suggest it is priced as much by madness as by reason....Of even greater concern is that much of the market’s strength may be the result of the abundant money sloshing around China, rather than a fundamental change in profit expectations.....More controversially, there is widespread speculation that the tidal wave of bank lending initiated by the government as part of its stimulus plan has made its way into the stockmarket...." - The Economist, 27 Aug 09

Cheers, Misty

[cloudhopper]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...y-printing.html

Apart from the rest, which is also worth a read.

"The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

"He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin.

Well put.

Well put, and interesting quotations. And yet perhaps there's a little bit more to that story:

"Chinese banks lent Rmb7,370 billion of local currency loans in the first half, a figure equivalent to 45 per cent of half-year gross domestic product, according to BNP Paribas, which said it knew of no other economy that had created credit on such a scale since the second World War." - Irish Times 21 Aug 09

"China's top banking regulator on Sunday warned of the risks from surging bank lending, singling out the dangers of unhealthy growth in the property market....His warning comes after June's lending figures hit 1.53 trillion yuan (223.9 billion), higher than analyst expectations. The figure pushed the accumulative first-half new yuan loans by Chinese banks to 7.37 trillian yuan ($1.1 trillion), far exceeding the government's 5 trillion yuan minimum target for the entire year. " - Reuters 19 Jul 09

"After losing almost three-quarters of their value between late 2007 and the end of 2008, (Chinese) shares have gone back on the rampage. They are up by more than 70% this year, and that encompasses a wrenching 15% decline since late July....The market’s remarkable rise comes with enough caveats to suggest it is priced as much by madness as by reason....Of even greater concern is that much of the market’s strength may be the result of the abundant money sloshing around China, rather than a fundamental change in profit expectations.....More controversially, there is widespread speculation that the tidal wave of bank lending initiated by the government as part of its stimulus plan has made its way into the stockmarket...." - The Economist, 27 Aug 09

Cheers, Misty

Yeah there's a lot of other little facts that Uncle Cheng forgot to mention too like their mercantilist bargain with corrupt US policy makers (who are propping up the US markets with printed USD the same way the PRC is propping up their markets with printed Yuan). The US and China are both going to go down big time when the same economic bed they've been secretly sharing caves in.

Another great rant from my man Karl - http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archive...gs-Part-II.html

[sokal]

When the Chinese speak, maybe it is worth listening to.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economi...y-printing.html

Apart from the rest, which is also worth a read.

"The US spends tomorrow's money today," he said. "We Chinese spend today's money tomorrow. That's why we have this financial crisis."

Yet the consequences are not symmetric.

"He who goes borrowing, goes sorrowing," said Mr Cheng.

It was a quote from US founding father Benjamin Franklin.

Well put.

Well put, and interesting quotations. And yet perhaps there's a little bit more to that story:

"Chinese banks lent Rmb7,370 billion of local currency loans in the first half, a figure equivalent to 45 per cent of half-year gross domestic product, according to BNP Paribas, which said it knew of no other economy that had created credit on such a scale since the second World War." - Irish Times 21 Aug 09

"China's top banking regulator on Sunday warned of the risks from surging bank lending, singling out the dangers of unhealthy growth in the property market....His warning comes after June's lending figures hit 1.53 trillion yuan (223.9 billion), higher than analyst expectations. The figure pushed the accumulative first-half new yuan loans by Chinese banks to 7.37 trillian yuan ($1.1 trillion), far exceeding the government's 5 trillion yuan minimum target for the entire year. " - Reuters 19 Jul 09

"After losing almost three-quarters of their value between late 2007 and the end of 2008, (Chinese) shares have gone back on the rampage. They are up by more than 70% this year, and that encompasses a wrenching 15% decline since late July....The market's remarkable rise comes with enough caveats to suggest it is priced as much by madness as by reason....Of even greater concern is that much of the market's strength may be the result of the abundant money sloshing around China, rather than a fundamental change in profit expectations.....More controversially, there is widespread speculation that the tidal wave of bank lending initiated by the government as part of its stimulus plan has made its way into the stockmarket...." - The Economist, 27 Aug 09

Cheers, Misty

I am not sure what your point is. The US is the one that is trying to start another asset bubble, hence the 0% interest rates and Q easing.

[midas]

I can tell you that in my home country at least you are not forced to take the jab,and I have seen some reports that a large part of nurses and doctors refuse to take it. Remember a few months back that this company Baxter or something send contaminated samples to Europe for testing?

They tried on a few homeless Polish people and they died....... (If I remember well).

As you might be well aware of it Midas and other very well respected members, contributors and readers of this historical topic, the US (not only) has a bit of a history experimenting on it's citizens so I would not be surprised if they would like to try again. And yes these facts are very well documented so no conspiracy theory this time.

I just wanted to know where my own government ( Australia ) was with all this. It says it

is bound to “ make every effort to implement the measures recommended by WHO ”.

as is every member of WHO.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18015582/H1N1-Va...r-Aus-2nd-draft

this sounds like the deal with the banks i.e. “ heads I win –tales you lose ”

1. Baxter Pharmaceutical given contract worth $7billon for the vaccine

2. Many confirm it has not been properly tested!

BUT

3. Baxter Pharmaceutical - has been given legal immunity from any deaths or

adverse effects – doesn’t seem very fair ?

http://www.ktradionetwork.com/tag/baxter/

[Naam]

yada, yada, yada... why the big hoo-hah? everybody knows about the Bilderbergs' conspiracy to illuminate... ahmmm... i mean kill 25% of the world's population by the engineered H1N1 virus and another 25% by forced vaccinations with a killer vaccine. the remaining 50% will be enslaved and will spend the remainder of their natural life in labour camps. and there is nothing we can do about it!