Financial Crisis

[cloudhopper]

BTW I'm disappointed that I am not on your Ignore list as well.

I have never put anyone on ignore and never would.

[jazzbo]

The girl that took that Mickey Mouse photo did not provide any enjoyment that day or any other -- I got the T-shirt for opening a Disney Visa account ... Poor .. OK, Says you... and I only for 2 years ever owned a house in USA either ... I am a happy renter ... it is difficult to keep more than one Thai TG if one of them moves in with you.

Whatever the run-up in gold for fundamental reasons, these days it is being supported by suckers or else all those gold firms would pull their ads from FOX News ... that's from a 'poor' guy who worked in advertising.

Apologies to you then, CH but several of the gents on this Forum have done so and like to trumpet it as well.

from Forbes.com 's -- Curtis Hesler -- Make the most out of gold's phenomenal move higher but don't get caught holding the bag when it's time to run (Newsletter at $170 per year)

Edited December 11, 2010 by jazzbo

[flying]

The truly smart guys will have prepared for this possibility and will not need to unload their gold or anything else fast.

Correct..... Although I would just say prepared

The folks I know who have converted a % of their liquid wealth into metals did so as a wealth preservation & only after satisfying other obvious needs/expenses for at least a few years forward.

Folks who need to sell metals to exist probably....

1) Should not have bought or not bought as much

2) May have had a much shorter time frame in mind

But still anyone who bought years ago were preparing well & will not have a problem realizing a nice profit.

Those who could not buy back when due to lack of funds or foresight probably will be worse off in the future with their depreciated currency. Trying to buy from someone who needs to unload fast :lol: Yeah right......

Gold price is gold price. You can get the price of gold any day worldwide. Sell fast or slow the price is the same.

[jazzbo]

I guess you guys are right and all the truly smart fellows just happened to gravitate toward this website.

[12DrinkMore]

About the RRR Rates....the Reserve Requirements Ratio with Western Banks.

Does anybody know what the standard RRR rates are for larger Banks in Europe/US/Australia....more or less?

I ask this because the RRR ratio reserves are raised for the third time in China, up to 18.5 percent; a record high which will be raised up to 23% by 2011.

http://www.reuters.c...&feedName=usdai

LaoPo

They generally operate with a 3 to 10% reserve. But you have to be careful with what the requirement really means.

The banks are not really constrained by the reserve requirement, as if the ratio falls a bit low, then they can borrow the money overnight from Ben or Merv at the discount rate. As this rate is currently pretty close to zero, it doesn't cost them very much, so the UK/US based banks can basically lend as much as they want without worrying about this ratio. We are still propping up the banking system and trying to fire up the economies (and simultaneously alleviate Bernanke's phobia of deflation) with limitless supplies of free money (for the banks; obviously you and me do not have access to this wonderful facility...)

[AlexLah]

And meanwhile banks are betting and earning cash with help of CDS.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/business/12advantage.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

How funny is that?

[LaoPo]

About the RRR Rates....the Reserve Requirements Ratio with Western Banks.

Does anybody know what the standard RRR rates are for larger Banks in Europe/US/Australia....more or less?

I ask this because the RRR ratio reserves are raised for the third time in China, up to 18.5 percent; a record high which will be raised up to 23% by 2011.

http://www.reuters.c...&feedName=usdai

LaoPo

They generally operate with a 3 to 10% reserve. But you have to be careful with what the requirement really means.

The banks are not really constrained by the reserve requirement, as if the ratio falls a bit low, then they can borrow the money overnight from Ben or Merv at the discount rate. As this rate is currently pretty close to zero, it doesn't cost them very much, so the UK/US based banks can basically lend as much as they want without worrying about this ratio. We are still propping up the banking system and trying to fire up the economies (and simultaneously alleviate Bernanke's phobia of deflation) with limitless supplies of free money (for the banks; obviously you and me do not have access to this wonderful facility...)

So, concluding: the ridge the banks are walking on is very very small and the depths gigantic.

Since the money presses are running full time and the banks can get away with it, it seems a scenario for a total collapse.

Seems to me the Chinese are not so dumb and prepare for an eventual worse case scenario with their RRR ratio up to 23% in 2011.

On top of that...thinking about it: most families in China have a "pot" with saved money, whether in cash or gold (fast increasing gold sales in China) since every single Chinese saves money and at least up to 30% or more from his weekly/montly income.

It's funded into the culture: SAVE MONEY!

That culture of saving money is long forgotten in many western countries with all their credit cards, loans and top mortgages.....

LaoPo

Edited December 12, 2010 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

A Secretive Banking Elite Rules Trading in Derivatives

By LOUISE STORY

Published: December 11, 2010

On the third Wednesday of every month, the nine members of an elite Wall Street society gather in Midtown Manhattan.

The men share a common goal: to protect the interests of big banks in the vast market for derivatives, one of the most profitable — and controversial — fields in finance. They also share a common secret: The details of their meetings, even their identities, have been strictly confidential.

Drawn from giants like JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, the bankers form a powerful committee that helps oversee trading in derivatives, instruments which, like insurance, are used to hedge risk.

In theory, this group exists to safeguard the integrity of the multitrillion-dollar market. In practice, it also defends the dominance of the big banks.

The banks in this group, which is affiliated with a new derivatives clearinghouse, have fought to block other banks from entering the market, and they are also trying to thwart efforts to make full information on prices and fees freely available.

Banks' influence over this market, and over clearinghouses like the one this select group advises, has costly implications for businesses large and small, like Dan Singer's home heating-oil company in Westchester County, north of New York City.

This fall, many of Mr. Singer's customers purchased fixed-rate plans to lock in winter heating oil at around $3 a gallon. While that price was above the prevailing $2.80 a gallon then, the contracts will protect homeowners if bitterly cold weather pushes the price higher.

But Mr. Singer wonders if his company, Robison Oil, should be getting a better deal. He uses derivatives like swaps and options to create his fixed plans. But he has no idea how much lower his prices — and his customers' prices — could be, he says, because banks don't disclose fees associated with the derivatives.

"At the end of the day, I don't know if I got a fair price, or what they're charging me," Mr. Singer said.

Derivatives shift risk from one party to another, and they offer many benefits, like enabling Mr. Singer to sell his fixed plans without having to bear all the risk that oil prices could suddenly rise. Derivatives are also big business on Wall Street. Banks collect many billions of dollars annually in undisclosed fees associated with these instruments — an amount that almost certainly would be lower if there were more competition and transparent prices.

More:

http://www.nytimes.c...ml?ref=business

LaoPo

[teletiger]

Love watching this circus. The NYSE is the high-diver, climbing the 50 metre ladder.....and he's going to dive into a 10 inch bucket. This should be good. "Give the boy a chance.....pour another 10 mls in the bucket" is the cry, as he climbs ever higher. He's wearing golden trunks, but he'll shed them half way down, as they fill full of poo, when he realises the enormity of the task.

Talking of poo....where's Herr Naam? Did he expose himself at the rotary club again, or has he popped..... I was trying to link 'popped clogs and clogged pipes.....but nothing works. Well, here's hoping it's nothing but a well deserved holiday....and the object of his ire is still blushing.

'And yes I can take the piss, as we're brothers in mortality.

Regards.

[LaoPo]

A Secretive Banking Elite Rules Trading in Derivatives

By LOUISE STORY

Published: December 11, 2010

http://www.nytimes.c...ml?ref=business

LaoPo

Today, is the MOST READ -top 2- article in the New York Times...says something.

LaoPo

[flying]

China says inflation up 5.1 percent in November

[waza]

Housing boom over as values fall

• David Nankervis
• From: Sunday Mail (SA)
• December 12, 2010 12:32AM

ADELAIDE'S median house price has fallen by $8000 since hitting a record high this year, the latest sales figures show.

Did anyone hear a pop?

[flying]

Housing boom over as values fall

• David Nankervis
• From: Sunday Mail (SA)
• December 12, 2010 12:32AM

ADELAIDE'S median house price has fallen by $8000 since hitting a record high this year, the latest sales figures show.

Did anyone hear a pop?

Maybe not as bad as the US

(Reuters) - Homes in the United States were expected to lose more than $1.7 trillion in value during 2010, exceeding their $1.05 trillion loss in 2009, as foreclosures accelerated, real estate data firm Zillow Inc said on Thursday.

[BlackJack]

Wasn't Citi the largest recipient of bailout cash? Not sure but I think they were. Surprise, the government just got fully paid back and earned over 25% on their 45 billion investment. If the the US bailed out more companies like Citi we wouldn't have a deficit and we could keep supporting the little men that can't support themselves.

Give it up Midas. Your rants are getting long in the tooth.

if you think the bailout was billions then I am sorry to tell you that you are wrong

the public was told billions when in fact it was a monster far bigger than they told the public

they still have not told the truth and Wikileaks will put out the docs early next year to prove the nonsense the banks and the FED got up to

the spin doctors of the USA are masters but Wikileaks is bringing their own doctors in now so LOOK OUT

I was referring to Citi - not the complete bailout. Can't wait until "Wikileaks" tells us all how it really went down - "yawn". I'll just make up my own mind and let certain TV tellers of the future keep calling it wrong. I see some of them have now jumped on the gold band wagon which should put fear in minds of other investors that hold gold.

I've bored of this site again. I don't consider myself superior to the average guy but this site is crawling with nuts. Time for me to disappear for a while and have fun in the real world. The world where individuals create wealth, enjoy themselves, and don't fantasize about economic collapse and anarchy.

arghhhh - vanity my favourite sin

[jazzbo]

... they (the American public) still have not told the truth ... But you can read the Truth here on TV.com and the Truth shall set you free.

[BlackJack]

you want the truth

well u cant handle the truth

US: Federal Reserve forced to reveal jaw-dropping statistics. When Americans were outraged at $700 million bank bailout, it really was $12.3 TRILLION. Much of it went to foreign banks and large corporations who owed money to banks. This is perhaps the biggest theft in all history, and no one has been brought to justice. This analyst thinks the Wikileaks scandals have been used to distract attention from the legalized plunder.

from unfiltered news

[flying]

FED rates remain unchanged 12-14-2010

FED: Recovery slower than expected

FED: Growth too slow to dent unemployment

FED reaffirms commitment to buy 75 BILLION in bonds per month through mid-2011

Bernie Madoff was small potatoes compared to this steal from Peter to pay Paul ponzi.

Edited December 14, 2010 by flying

[flying]

Want To Ruin Your Own Country? Assume Your Banks’ Liabilities

When the Global Financial Crisis hit in late 2008, the governments took over the liabilities of the financial sector—and in the two years since that terrible, terrible decision, that single move has turned what was once a problem of financial sector insolvency into a problem of sovereign nation insolvency:

The Icelanders recognized that their right hand—their banking sector—was gangrenous: So they cut it off. A lot of tears, a lot of short term agony—but the rot was cut off.

The Irish? They tried to save their gangrenous hand back in 2008—so then over the next two years, their whole arm has now turned gangrenous.

Full Post At Link Above

Edited December 15, 2010 by flying

[AlexLah]

Phase 6 has started,those of you that were thinking it would not happen, think twice.

http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/

[12DrinkMore]

Hi Alex,

From the UK....

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-your-right-to-protest-is-under-threat-2162493.html

From the FED, if you are seriously bored....

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/z1.pdf

"Growth of Domestic Nonfinancial Debt" (strange term "nonfinancial debt" it refers to "non-financial industry debt")

The summary page is the most accessible. It clearly shows that households and businesses have been paying off debt since the crisis started and that only the massive increase in government spending has kept the total debt mountain growing, preventing the whole Ponzi scheme from collapsing (yet).

[AnnyLing]

Phase 6 has started,those of you that were thinking it would not happen, think twice.

Greek citizens do not riot because of the reasons you mentioned. They riot because they dont want to pay the price for decades of carefree good life, taxevasion, taxcheating, retiring at age 58, and in many cases even earlier. But theres no way out for them. Those who danced in summer instead of taking care of their fields and harvest in fall will suffer or starve in winter.

[AlexLah]

Phase 6 has started,those of you that were thinking it would not happen, think twice.

Greek citizens do not riot because of the reasons you mentioned. They riot because they dont want to pay the price for decades of carefree good life, taxevasion, taxcheating, retiring at age 58, and in many cases even earlier. But theres no way out for them. Those who danced in summer instead of taking care of their fields and harvest in fall will suffer or starve in winter.

Dear Anny,

London and Moscow are not cities in Greece, France and Italy are not Greek islands.

Regarding your comment on Greece, I see a lot of young people on the street. How could they have been benefiting for decades?

You are missing the trend here, people are fed up with all the greed and corruption within governments and their tax money being given to the banks and investors that made bad bets.

It will get worse as it now becomes clear what really happened and bits and pieces of this 'truth' are being unveiled.

Another 'crisis' is brewing and again you will hear that they never saw it coming.

I have been saying from the beginning of this so called crisis that we were not being told the truth and many said I was one of those conspiracy nut cases.

And I am saying now, the worst has yet to come.

[flying]

Another 7 banks bite the dust today here in the US of A

Brings the total to 161 for 2010

Plus the 140 for 2009

[BlackJack]

looks like silver will rise after JP looses out on its shorting of the market

so they move into copper and control something like 90% of the warrants on it

so they loose on the silver as they have been to be shorting it and then corner the copper market

so i suppose this is hedging

my bets are on gold and silver still

[AnnyLing]

Regarding your comment on Greece, I see a lot of young people on the street. How could they have been benefiting for decades?

AlexL,

most of those young people benefitted indirectly because their parents benefitted. But whether they benefitted or not does not matter. Protests, riots, hurling Molotov cocktails and the like is futile and will not solve their problems. citizens of highly indebted countries will suffer for years to come whether via austerity measures, reduced social spending or higher taxes. Bankers and politicians in prison or hanging from gallows will not return the money which was wasted.

[flying]

Bankers and politicians in prison or hanging from gallows will not return the money which was wasted.

But it will curtail their enjoyment of it

[AlexLah]

Regarding your comment on Greece, I see a lot of young people on the street. How could they have been benefiting for decades?

AlexL,

most of those young people benefitted indirectly because their parents benefitted. But whether they benefitted or not does not matter. Protests, riots, hurling Molotov cocktails and the like is futile and will not solve their problems. citizens of highly indebted countries will suffer for years to come whether via austerity measures, reduced social spending or higher taxes. Bankers and politicians in prison or hanging from gallows will not return the money which was wasted.

It doesn't matter if the money was wasted or not. The question is why the working class should pay for the stupid decisions made by bondholders and banks. They are the ones loaning money and assume a risk. Look at Iceland were they said no to helping out the investors/banks. I turned out to be a good decision as they are now back growing their economy.

What would help as well is to bring those people and companies that caused all of this crap, into court and charge them with fraud and other related issues.

But so far I have not seen much of that. In fact, nothing much has been done to re regulate the banking industry.

This is why people all over the world are getting mad and riot. Why is nobody been held responsible for causing this "crisis" as it is now very clear what caused it.

[AlexLah]

Another example how to get away with fraud.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2010/12/20101217214642321106.html

Hang those people.

It is disgusting.

[AnnyLing]

It doesn't matter if the money was wasted or not. The question is why the working class should pay for the stupid decisions made by bondholders and banks. They are the ones loaning money and assume a risk. Look at Iceland were they said no to helping out the investors/banks. I turned out to be a good decision as they are now back growing their economy.

The banks cheated bondholders and investors. And you find that okay Alex ?

[midas]

This is why people all over the world are getting mad and riot. Why is nobody been held responsible for causing this "crisis" as it is now very clear what caused it.

You don’t even have to riot – you can get into trouble for just sitting down in a peaceful protest

At the end of the day it is only money – but how much is your freedom worth ?

Alex you have always said look at history. Some people have half joked about comparing USA with the fall of the Roman Empire but if you really analyse the events in Rome to now the similarities are spooky.

Rome was a republic at first. There was freedom and things went well. That's why they expanded. And, then, when freedom started to fall apart, that's when they became an empire. They went from freedom to feeding people to lions for sport.

There are signs of erosion of freedom EVERYWHERE ……………..

The Ontario Legislature passed a regulation on June 2nd, 2010 that empowered police to arrest anyone near the G20 security zone who refused to identify themselves or agree to a police search. The regulation was designed to expire on June 28th, 2010, one day after the end of the G20.This special regulation was never debated in the Legislature and wasn't officially published in the Ontario Gazette until July 3rd!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jILTt0-YZvk&feature=player_embedded#at=737

Edited December 20, 2010 by midas