Financial Crisis

[churchill]

I think HFT should be banned / it seems it cannot be regulated and if there is a problem its too late / This will cause the next market crash/meltdown if there is one / Automatic computer trading should be stopped - with each trade needing some form of human input ?

Haldane on HFT’s market-making problem

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/07/08/616451/haldane-on-hfts-market-making-problem/

[churchill]

British Gas raises prices by 18pc

That is a very big increase for most in the UK !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/8625125/British-Gas-raises-prices-by-18pc.html

[ronz28]

State of Minnesota shut down stops pay to government workers, support to the poor and prevents anyone from visiting a state park or other state facility:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#43677905

[Wrong Turn]

^ The State of Minnesota is one of many, many, states that may go broke.

Bankruptcy deals are being done in DC, to get around the legalities.

I see the state of Illinois, as being the first state to go bankrupt within 2 years.

[12DrinkMore]

State of Minnesota shut down stops pay to government workers, support to the poor and prevents anyone from visiting a state park or other state facility:

http://www.msnbc.msn...32619/#43677905

The sheeple look as though they are taking it all in their stride. Maybe they just have not realsied how bad it can get?

Catch the guy "we are living from paycheck to paycheck, like all middle class". I always though that puts you in the working class. I suppose the working class are living from food stamp to food stamp?

And from the UK, Austerity....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011657/Shropshire-Council-sacks-6-500-staff-pay-cut-move.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

A council is firing all 6,500 of its employees, with a promise to re-hire them if they agree to a pay cut. Dismissal letters have been sent by Shropshire Council informing all staff they will lose their jobs on September 30. The letters go on to say employees can return the following day – but only if they consent to a 5.4 per cent salary reduction and changes to sickness benefits and holiday entitlement

Edited July 9, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

http://www.independe...ne-2309902.html

Britain faces an "unprecedented and escalating" housing crisis, charities warned yesterday, with middle-class families at greater risk of homelessness than at any point in the past century.

Geoff Hawkins of Chapter 1 said: "Today, homelessness is no longer confined to the stereotyped image of rough sleepers rehabilitating from lifelong addictions. Instead, we are seeing new groups: the inadvertent victims of the recession that remain too close to either side of the poverty line to qualify for instant and appropriate help. This is one of the most vulnerable sectors, with many forced to seek alternatives, including downsizing into caravans, tents, mobile homes, sofas or even on to the streets."

Haven't been back to Britain for several years. If this report is more than a bit of sensationalism filling in newspaper space, then nasty cracks are beginning to appear.

Leslie Morphy, chief executive of the homeless charity Crisis, said: "The Government must change course before this flow of homeless people becomes a flood. It must legislate to ensure that when someone finds themselves homeless, all councils give the support and emergency accommodation needed, so no one faces the horrors of sleeping in sheds, squats or on the streets."

More taxes then?

[midas]

http://www.independe...ne-2309902.html

Britain faces an "unprecedented and escalating" housing crisis, charities warned yesterday, with middle-class families at greater risk of homelessness than at any point in the past century.

Geoff Hawkins of Chapter 1 said: "Today, homelessness is no longer confined to the stereotyped image of rough sleepers rehabilitating from lifelong addictions. Instead, we are seeing new groups: the inadvertent victims of the recession that remain too close to either side of the poverty line to qualify for instant and appropriate help. This is one of the most vulnerable sectors, with many forced to seek alternatives, including downsizing into caravans, tents, mobile homes, sofas or even on to the streets."

Haven't been back to Britain for several years. If this report is more than a bit of sensationalism filling in newspaper space, then nasty cracks are beginning to appear.

Leslie Morphy, chief executive of the homeless charity Crisis, said: "The Government must change course before this flow of homeless people becomes a flood. It must legislate to ensure that when someone finds themselves homeless, all councils give the support and emergency accommodation needed, so no one faces the horrors of sleeping in sheds, squats or on the streets."

More taxes then?

This is so depressing 12D especially the chef Jean Preux where he says former doctors and lawyers are also sleeping rough in Victoria Station.

I haven't been back now for about four years either but I used to make annual visits to UK from Australia during the 1990s-the Thatcher era and there

used to be such a vibrancy there in those days. I don't think I would recognise it now.

[12DrinkMore]

This is so depressing 12D especially the chef Jean Preux where he says former doctors and lawyers are also sleeping rough in Victoria Station.

I haven't been back now for about four years either but I used to make annual visits to UK from Australia during the 1990s-the Thatcher era and there used to be such a vibrancy there in those days. I don't think I would recognise it now.

Must admit, those cases shook me a bit.

It is hard to come to terms with the rise of Asia. Globalisation is a word that few seem to understand.

The world is now a global competitive market for raw material, labour and manufactured goods; the real sources of wealth.

I cannot see any net wealth created in the finance sector, rather it sucks the wealth from the rest and concentrates it in a few pockets. Similarly with real estate, there is no real wealth created by inflating property prices and rents, again it simply sucks out the wealth of the wage earners and business owners and stuffs it into the pockets of the essentially idle rentiers as a form of private tax collection, the bankers and the peripheral parasites such as estate agents and solicitors.

(Whilst I'm on that subject, the UK government, for example, is more like a cancer on the private sector of the economy. No matter how much the private sector complains, the government will still suck even more out of the private sector to feed itself and ensure its own survival until ultimately the host dies. (I don't believe Dawkins has discussed this, but I'm sure he could find some material here)).

On the subject of the financial sector, well, this could disappear from the UK very quickly. Singapore is working hard to set itself up as a major financial centre. And the financial industry, considered so important to the UK, is one of the easiest to remove from the UK tax man. There is an historic link to "the city", that little independent island of the UK with its own police force. But will it continue to be based in the UK based on tradition, or will it swiftly go to more "tax friendly" and lower cost countries? Surely they will continue to threaten the UK government with this.

But back to globalisation. John Smith in Manchester is not competing with Garry Simpson in Liverpool, they are both competing with Sun Lin in Asia, who is possibly more educated and is happy with 25% (be generous here) of what John and Garry are earning. And with that salary he can run a car, buy a house and save money. John and Garry are just scraping by after tax, paying the mortgage/rent/credit card and feeding themselves. The huge social overheads of having swathes of jobsworthies looking after the interests of minority groups, immigrants, idle gits, early public service pensioners, health schemes simply does not exist in Asia. If able, you are expected to work. Full stop.

And this imbalance is now being re-balanced.

And the west will not like it.

Tough shit. Life was not easy for millions of years, no reason why that trend should not continue.

Edited July 10, 2011 by 12DrinkMore

[cloudhopper]

And this imbalance is now being re-balanced.

And the west will not like it.

Yep about 40 years worth. And no one can stop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqsxF_zt700&feature=related

[midas]

Geoff Hawkins of Chapter 1 said: "Today, homelessness is no longer confined to the stereotyped image of rough sleepers rehabilitating from lifelong addictions. Instead, we are seeing new groups: the inadvertent victims of the recession that remain too close to either side of the poverty line to qualify for instant and appropriate help. This is one of the most vulnerable sectors, with many forced to seek alternatives, including downsizing into caravans, tents, mobile homes, sofas or even on to the streets."

here is a good example in USA of what can be done. In the UK the homeless should start looking for empty buildings to occupy as a group

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/05/2995124/a-river-of-refuge-for-the-homeless.html#ixzz1Re2s8NTt

[cloudhopper]

We might all be bit coiners now, or the case for physical currency in a deflationary burst -

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/what-american-bank-run-would-look

[midas]

We might all be bit coiners now, or the case for physical currency in a deflationary burst -

http://www.zerohedge...-run-would-look

Which begs the question: should one apply a 90% discount when evaluating their electronic dollar exposure?

What a scary prospect for Americans

[ronz28]

One of the investment banksters:

http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-streeter-confesses-i-was-paid-millions-at-ubs-and-bear-stearns-for-stealing-and-fronting-a-ponzi-scheme-2011-7

[flying]

Folks have had 3 years to prepare.

I always said CM's crash course among others was a gift

[flying]

You have to laugh as you watch the news these days

regarding the USA debt ceiling. Approaching expiration/default

August 2nd

Actually expired back in May? but, they have been running on

Federal pensions/fumes

But what I find funny is the show they put on...The Democrats & the Republicans

pretending they will not agree to raise it......as if they have that choice.

Yet they argue over silliness like the Republicans saying they want cuts in future spending...

Medicare, Social Security etc.... While the Democrats say they want to raise taxes.

Yet neither solution will so much as scratch the surface of the existing debt.

Neither group ever mentions probably the biggest savings that could slow the debt growth & probably help reverse

existing debt at some point....Things like stopping the Military Industrial Complex or cutting the bloated size of government.......

Ah then again both of those would swell the unemployed ranks massively with angry politicians &

angry young men with guns & explosives...... :lol:

Ok maybe at least stop helping rich bankers get richer?

[lannarebirth]

You have to laugh as you watch the news these days

regarding the USA debt ceiling. Approaching expiration/default

August 2nd

Actually expired back in May? but, they have been running on

Federal pensions/fumes

But what I find funny is the show they put on...The Democrats & the Republicans

pretending they will not agree to raise it......as if they have that choice.

Yet they argue over silliness like the Republicans saying they want cuts in future spending...

Medicare, Social Security etc.... While the Democrats say they want to raise taxes.

Yet neither solution will so much as scratch the surface of the existing debt.

Neither group ever mentions probably the biggest savings that could slow the debt growth & probably help reverse

existing debt at some point....Things like stopping the Military Industrial Complex or cutting the bloated size of government.......

Ah then again both of those would swell the unemployed ranks massively with angry politicians &

angry young men with guns & explosives...... :lol:

Ok maybe at least stop helping rich bankers get richer?

You're a better man than me flying. I gave up on "deficit reduction" talk years ago. Now, to any sane person a deficit reduction might somehow mean debt might be curbed somehow. But in Washington speak, deficit reduction means it is going up slower than before. I got off the bus at that stop.

Edited July 12, 2011 by lannarebirth

[cloudhopper]

But what I find funny is the show they put on...The Democrats & the Republicans

pretending they will not agree to raise it......as if they have that choice.

That's why I don't vote - it just gives them undeserved legitimacy.

Also I find that kilo bars have a zen-like calming effect on any untoward reactions I have watching our parliament of whores in action.

[flying]

You're a better man than me flying. I gave up on "deficit reduction" talk years ago. Now, to any sane person a deficit reduction might somehow mean debt might be curbed somehow. But in Washington speak, deficit reduction means it is going up slower than before. I got off the bus at that stop.

Nah your way ahead of the game lanna

Of course I agree & it is with mild interest that I watch a few minutes in the mornings these days before heading out.

But like you I have slowly withdrawn from the system these last few years. We do plan to move to Chiang Mai where we have a condo

or maybe the country with the family later. But it is like watching a train wreck here in slow motion....well not that slow these days.

I swear on this one house I am building for a customer I have had at least 6 folks stop by asking for work. Starting to look like a depression in motion. Might not seem odd except I am building in the country for this customer & it is very unusual for someone much less 6 show up at various times looking for work 30 miles from town

That's why I don't vote - it just gives them undeserved legitimacy.

Also I find that kilo bars have a zen-like calming effect on any untoward reactions I have watching our parliament of whores in action.

I also did not vote for a long time but will for Ron Paul

I always said if it was truly a democratic process of voting they should add one more check box

labeled NONE OF THE ABOVE

If enough check it then so be it.

We are not truly free without even considering the electoral college & how it all works we are given

choices of which is the least worse. Or like what I mentioned earlier...Do you want higher taxes or less SS benefits

that we already paid for? Crap like that. Never a true choice of responsible ideas.

Edited July 13, 2011 by flying

[midas]

new greenshoots !!........well according to the National Retail Federation

way of thinking

Shoplifting: Is It Good for the Economy?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43713848/

[cloudhopper]

Well everything else from there appears to be toxic so why not ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-13/china-cities-sell-land-at-winnetka-values-with-bonds-seen-toxic.html

[cloudhopper]

Good interview re European debt crisis.

[midas]

new greenshoots !!........well according to the National Retail Federation

way of thinking

Shoplifting: Is It Good for the Economy?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43713848/

bullish ?

15 Examples That Show Many Americans Have Become So Desperate That They Will Do Just About Anything For Money

Even police officers are committing desperate acts these days.A Chicago Police officer stole $50,000 from his ailing elderly father to pay off his bills and gambling debts and unsuccessfully attempted to swipe his dad’s retirement savings by impersonating him

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/15-examples-that-show-many-americans-have-become-so-desperate-that-they-will-do-just-about-anything-for-money

[lovetotravel]

new greenshoots !!........well according to the National Retail Federation

way of thinking

Shoplifting: Is It Good for the Economy?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43713848/

bullish ?

15 Examples That Show Many Americans Have Become So Desperate That They Will Do Just About Anything For Money

Even police officers are committing desperate acts these days.A Chicago Police officer stole $50,000 from his ailing elderly father to pay off his bills and gambling debts and unsuccessfully attempted to swipe his dad's retirement savings by impersonating him

http://theeconomicco...thing-for-money

and gambling debts

A bit more to this than just the economy, me thinks.

[midas]

new greenshoots !!........well according to the National Retail Federation

way of thinking

Shoplifting: Is It Good for the Economy?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43713848/

bullish ?

15 Examples That Show Many Americans Have Become So Desperate That They Will Do Just About Anything For Money

Even police officers are committing desperate acts these days.A Chicago Police officer stole $50,000 from his ailing elderly father to pay off his bills and gambling debts and unsuccessfully attempted to swipe his dad's retirement savings by impersonating him

http://theeconomicco...thing-for-money

and gambling debts

A bit more to this than just the economy, me thinks.

me thinks the same as you

[ronz28]

U.S. Downgraded to 'Near Junk' by Weiss

http://econmatters.visibli.com/share/6e1g5P

Who dat?

[lannarebirth]

U.S. Downgraded to 'Near Junk' by Weiss

http://econmatters.v...om/share/6e1g5P

Who dat?

Meet Martin Weiss:

http://blogs.moneyandmarkets.com/martin-weiss/

I'm assuming you know who this is:

http://www.standardandpoors.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobheadername3=MDT-Type&blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobheadervalue2=inline%3B+filename%3DUnitedStatesofAmerica_AAAA_7_14_11.pdf&blobheadername2=Content-Disposition&blobheadervalue1=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobheadername1=content-type&blobwhere=1243932109521&blobheadervalue3=UTF-8

[ronz28]

U.S. Downgraded to 'Near Junk' by Weiss

http://econmatters.v...om/share/6e1g5P

Who dat?

Meet Martin Weiss:

http://blogs.moneyan...m/martin-weiss/

I'm assuming you know who this is:

http://www.standarda...dervalue3=UTF-8

Yes, I did see the negative watch on the US from S&P but I don't recall reading Weiss before today. He's a little out there on a limb from current thinking. However, I am disgusted with the Republican insistence on not rolling back the tax rates for millionaires and billionaires and keeping the tax breaks that allow GE and Exxon, etc. to pay no taxes. I don't even like the fact that half of the tax filers pay no federal income taxes at all regardless of income level. Too many deadbeats if US wants to participate in world leadership.

If Congress doesn't get this resolved next week or sooner interest rates will go up for the US Government due to lower credit ratings and then every new or resetting loan, swap, etc. in the US to anybody, corporation, State, municipality,etc. for whatever will have a higher interest rate/cost than need be were it not for the Republicans failing to raise revenues on a timely basis. Like they say... pay me now or pay me a lot more later.

Edited July 15, 2011 by ronz28

[craigt3365]

Yes, I did see the negative watch on the US from S&P but I don't recall reading Weiss before today. He's a little out there on a limb from current thinking. However, I am disgusted with the Republican insistence on not rolling back the tax rates for millionaires and billionaires and keeping the tax breaks that allow GE and Exxon, etc. to pay no taxes. I don't even like the fact that half of the tax filers pay no federal income taxes at all regardless of income level. Too many deadbeats if US wants to participate in world leadership.

If Congress doesn't get this resolved next week or sooner interest rates will go up for the US Government due to lower credit ratings and then every new or resetting loan, swap, etc. in the US to anybody, corporation, State, municipality,etc. for whatever will have a higher interest rate/cost than need be were it not for the Republicans failing to raise revenues on a timely basis. Like they say... pay me now or pay me a lot more later.

This is from CNBC on Weiss:

Weiss was quick to add that while the rating seems weak, the debt situation is not in a danger zone that would trigger panic, noting that there was still broad market acceptance for Treasurys.

The grade reflects the U.S. massive debt burden, low international reserves and the volatility in the American economy, he said.

Weiss Ratings based its score purely on statistics, and does not take into account qualitative factors such as political stability.

I agree with you regarding being mad at the politicians. I read a NY Times article last week that this "negotiating" over the debt ceiling is all about the 2012 elections. Obama agreeing to cuts to show he can handle the deficit reduction. The republicans showing how they can balance things without raising taxes. Ughhh....

[flying]

The truth is now it does not matter how mad you are at which politicians.....

They are all to blame as they all spent like drunken sailors money they did not have.

It is too late & I doubt it is a great idea to give any of the drunken sailors more money in the form of more credit.

Crash broken this mess of a so called system once & for all. It is inevitable anyway & the sooner we get started with the new the sooner the ruins to the right of us will have lost sight of us.

Penalize the millionaire & billionaires all you want what will it mean? 30-90 billion $USD per year

Whoop De Doo....Now what is the problem number we are working on? 14 Trillion....

How much do they want to raise it with another boost to the drunken sailors credit card? 2 maybe 4 TRILLION more?

Dont be mesmerized by the political dog & pony show it means SH!T when the reality of the problem has light shined on it.

Edited July 16, 2011 by flying

[12DrinkMore]

We haven't been here for a while, but the FDICK is still handling failed banks at a steady rate, but they don't hit the headlines anymore.

http://www.fdic.gov/...d/banklist.html

50 odd banks since January. How many banks are there left in the States, seems like an infinite amount.

Crisis over?

I reckon if you can't run a bank at a profit then you are utterly unemployable anywhere.

I've just read Roger Bootle's book "Money for Nothing". I don't agree with a chunk of what he wrote, but maybe he might have revised his ideas in the last seven years since it was published. However the chapter where he reckons that most of the "financial advisors" and "fund managers" are due for signing on to the unemployed register did strike a note. What do these guys do? If they are taking a couple of percent cut to pay themselves but fail to beat the average (and how indeed can they all beat the average???) then <deleted> are they being paid for at all?

Their pay and bonuses should go to the customers who actually have the capital.

Now this could get a little painful for UK inc. as manufacturing is down to 12% of GDP, the public burden is over 50% and financial services takes a big chunk of what's left. If you view financial services as a cancer, sorry, I'll tone it down, as a leech, simply creaming off a percentage of of their customers' money then a substantial reduction of this has to take place.