Financial Crisis

[Naam]

@lindayueh

'EC President Barroso: EU was unprepared for scale, depth of crisis'

your smiley indicates that you too have used the last several months of the crisis to make some real dough, right Churchill? may i assume you also bought some EU financials which went up 50% or did you just stick to gold which didn't yield a copper penny but lost?

Edited February 28, 2012 by Naam

[churchill]

@lindayueh

'EC President Barroso: EU was unprepared for scale, depth of crisis'

your smiley indicates that you too have used the last several months of the crisis to make some real dough, right Churchill? may i assume you also bought some EU financials which went up 50% or did you just stick to gold which didn't yield a copper penny but lost?

Not as clever as you Naam .. I don't trade short term and stuck with pm's .. & Today Silver looks like leading the way . .

This seems like money and time well spent !!! or an excuse for another buffet ......

'@lindayueh

Euro leaders to briefly meet on March 1 to name Van Rompuy as official leader of euro summits.'

Edited February 28, 2012 by churchill

[Naam]

Not as clever as you Naam .. I don't trade short term and stuck with pm's ..

quite often i wish i was as rich as some people who can afford to stick to "PMs". must be a nice feeling to pay the electricity bill, booking a flight or buying steaks in Foodland by simply rubbing a "PM"bar.

oh well, perhaps in my next reincarnation...

[lannarebirth]

Good Read of one possible (likely?) outcome, complete with some historical case studies:

http://www.johnmauldin.com/images/uploads/overmyshoulder/February-2012-Eurozone-Breakup.pdf

[Naam]

Good Read of one possible (likely?) outcome, complete with some historical case studies:

http://www.johnmauld...one-Breakup.pdf

a must read!

[midas]

must be a nice feeling to pay the electricity bill, booking a flight or buying steaks in Foodland by simply rubbing a "PM"bar.

At least while he can rub it there is considerably less

likelihood of it " vanishing " or even " apparently vanishing "

[lannarebirth]

Good Read of one possible (likely?) outcome, complete with some historical case studies:

http://www.johnmauld...one-Breakup.pdf

a must read!

Extremely well researched paper IMO. It is by far the best thing I've read on the "nuts and bolts" of what a currency breakup could mean. When you break things down into this level of detail it makes things seem less daunting, though I'm not sure participants will feel likewise.

Edited February 28, 2012 by lannarebirth

[Wrong Turn]

Durable good consumption (stuff that lasts 3 years or more such as washers, dryers, etc) fell 4% last month.

This is the largest drop in 3 years.

Source: CNN cable. (I know it sux).

Folks, I firmly believe the US will see reduced growth and a technical recession (2 quarters of neg growth) or a non-technical recession (anemic growth, continued high unemployment, stagnant and declining wages, drops in consumption spending b/c of high gas prices.

Gas prices are already hitting $5 per gallon in CA and FL, and the Iran dillemma has not kicked off in earned yet, with sanctions hitting hard in a couple month (and the possibility of a strike).

I suppose I'll stay in South East Asia for another year.....

[flying]

Good Read of one possible (likely?) outcome, complete with some historical case studies:

http://www.johnmauld...one-Breakup.pdf

Still reading it Thanks

Very well put together & explained in an easy format

Did have to laugh when I saw this though....

The breakup of the euro would be an historic event, but it would not be the first currency breakup ever

They could have said if it did not eventually breakup/fail it would be the first fiat that did not fail/breakup

Edited February 28, 2012 by flying

[flying]

A report came out from the ECRI yesterday, forecasting another recession. The ECRI does have a consisten track record. It's calling for a US recession by Fall. On another note, American consumer CC debt is on the rise again.

Credit Card Debt Nears Toxic Levels

In line with something I have read from a cyclist for some time now.

His claim is all the governments massaged rhetoric is to keep folks from getting spooked &

pulling their cash & stashing it in their mattress.

His claim is Parabolic Debt is coming & will cause an unavoidable collapse of the current monetary system

Also states 2013 is the end of the FED's 100 year mandate. His claim is don't worry about a recession

as we will have a full blown depression much worse than the so called Great one

[Naam]

must be a nice feeling to pay the electricity bill, booking a flight or buying steaks in Foodland by simply rubbing a "PM"bar.

At least while he can rub it there is considerably less

likelihood of it " vanishing " or even " apparently vanishing "

Midas,

once in a while (is once a year too much to ask?) i would like to hear a comment from you which is relevant to the posting you are replying to. it would be also interesting to concentrate more on actual prevailing facts instead of "future likelihoods".

[midas]

must be a nice feeling to pay the electricity bill, booking a flight or buying steaks in Foodland by simply rubbing a "PM"bar.

At least while he can rub it there is considerably less

likelihood of it " vanishing " or even " apparently vanishing "

Midas,

once in a while (is once a year too much to ask?) i would like to hear a comment from you which is relevant to the posting you are replying to. it would be also interesting to concentrate more on actual prevailing facts instead of "future likelihoods".

I don't know about you but I cant think of anything more relevant than bankers working in collusion with abhorrently

corrupt politicians on both sides of the pond who willingily condone a degree of criminality that

would make even the Gambino family envious .

And now even prominent investors in Japan have been well and truly Fukushimad.

How can there be a viable business environment without TRUST ?

Edited February 29, 2012 by midas

[craigt3365]

Greek Bailout Package Explanation:

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village.

The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.

Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a 100 Euro note on the desk,

telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, grabs the E100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the E100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the E100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.

The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the E100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the E100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the E100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything.

No one earned anything.

However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works

[IMA_FARANG]

Greek Bailout Package Explanation:

It is a slow day in a little Greek Village.

The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.

Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a 100Euro note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, grabs the E100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.

The butcher takes the E100note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer.

The pig farmer takes the note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.

The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes theE100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.

The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him "services" on credit.

The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the E100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the E100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the E100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything.

No one earned anything.

However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works

---------------------------------

craigt3365

I know you meant that as a joke, a funny story.

Unfortunately you forgot the beginning of the real story.

The rich German was a banker. His bank got the 100 Euro from the EU taxpayers to cover their "losses" on their "loans" to Greece. That's why he had the 100 Euro when he arrived at that small village in Greece.

And here's the real ending to that story.

When he left with his original 100 Euro, he went back to Germany.

He deposited it in his German bank...and that bank used it to "bailout" the Greek government...not the Greek people...their GOVERNMENT.

Now that government "owes" that German bank more interest on that same 100 Euro that was re-borrowed (is their such a word?) by the Greek government.

So now they need more EU taxpayers money...to give back to German and French banks...(the U.K. is #3 on the list of lenders) to "repay" Greek debt.

Am I the only person who sees this as a great money-making scam by the banks?

Edited February 29, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[lannarebirth]

Here's a question I've never seen addressed. I guess we know that the major holders of bad debt in Europe are "German, French and UK banks" We know they leveraged it to the hilt. What I'd like to know is who's money is it really?

Most banks have "trading desks" where supposedly they work to create profits on behalf of the bank and those who have trading accounts with that bank. Who are they? Are they pension funds? Trusts of rich families or royalty? Other funds who may be overseas? Banks are merely corporations. Here today and gone tomorrow. Who's money is it really?

[Orac]

Here's a question I've never seen addressed. I guess we know that the major holders of bad debt in Europe are "German, French and UK banks" We know they leveraged it to the hilt. What I'd like to know is who's money is it really?

Most banks have "trading desks" where supposedly they work to create profits on behalf of the bank and those who have trading accounts with that bank. Who are they? Are they pension funds? Trusts of rich families or royalty? Other funds who may be overseas? Banks are merely corporations. Here today and gone tomorrow. Who's money is it really?

Surely this is the nub of the problem. It is money that the bank created out of thin air via the concept of fractional banking and didn't actually exist before.

[12DrinkMore]

Here's a question I've never seen addressed. I guess we know that the major holders of bad debt in Europe are "German, French and UK banks" We know they leveraged it to the hilt. What I'd like to know is who's money is it really?

The trite answer is the money belongs to the banks and the debts belong to us.

I have been trying to find the answer to this question for some while. So far I cannot find a definitive answer.

I believe the following is along the correct lines.

The banks are required to keep reserves at the central banks in relation to the debt they have created. This is defined by the capital adequacy ratio. Any reserves over and above this amount the banks can either lend to other financial institutions (because they are a bit short of the capital adequacy requirements) at the overnight rate, or purchase other stuff such as government bonds.

If these bonds took a haircut, then it would eat into the banks' own capital, which could collapse the system.

To fix this we have another chunk of change being thrust up into the system

http://www.bloomberg...-estimated.html

Against collateral the banks can take on a loan from the ECB at 1% (pity this privilege is not extended to industry, where it might really do something for the economy) and this cash can then also be used to buy government bonds, effectively supporting the bond market and driving the yield curve down. This injection of EUR serves. IMO, two main purposes

1. Drive down the cost of borrowing for the PIGIES

2. Enable cash-strapped banks to temporarily exchange long term asset holdings to meet short term cash requirements, further supporting the asset prices by preventing forced sales.

Now to the funny money bit.; we all know that banks create most of the money in the world through issuing debt by simply crediting an account with a couple of keystrokes. The question is, can a bank credit an internal account the same way, which could then be used to buy government bonds? Somehow I doubt that this is legal. But could say the investment arm of a bank ask for a loan at favourable terms and then buy government bonds? Is this then possible? Just how many shenanigans are there?

I don't know.

But disregarding that last speculative bit, I think the banks have invested their own surplus reserves in the higher yielding bonds of the PIGIES and might go insolvent if the PIGIES don't cough up in full. This in turn will hit all the other institutions, including the pension schemes, who have money in the stock markets.

Doubtless they also have money in the bond market, but that is not the question you asked.

Edited February 29, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[12DrinkMore]

Here's a question I've never seen addressed. I guess we know that the major holders of bad debt in Europe are "German, French and UK banks" We know they leveraged it to the hilt. What I'd like to know is who's money is it really?

Most banks have "trading desks" where supposedly they work to create profits on behalf of the bank and those who have trading accounts with that bank. Who are they? Are they pension funds? Trusts of rich families or royalty? Other funds who may be overseas? Banks are merely corporations. Here today and gone tomorrow. Who's money is it really?

Surely this is the nub of the problem. It is money that the bank created out of thin air via the concept of fractional banking and didn't actually exist before.

1. Fractional banking where a percentage of depositors' cash is held as a reserve, is not what we have, contrary to popular opinion.

2. See my post....

[flying]

This whole thing is worth watching but especially from 3:48 onwards...IMHO

[midas]

This whole thing is worth watching but especially from 3:48 onwards...IMHO

I keep worrying if he keeps this up if he risks being assassinated

Ron Paul Defeats Obama In Head To Head Polling

( Rasmussen's 2012 Presidential Election Matchups )

[ronz28]

This whole thing is worth watching but especially from 3:48 onwards...IMHO

That's a classic clip. Despite the excellent arguments made, Gold started selling off right after this. Probably a veiled bankster threat to show everyone that nothing short of an exorcism will get them to behave.

[midas]

world currency

" But if you want to erase the debt will reset the value of the euro and the dollar together and in this way will create a new currency, which will enter the market, will eliminate all simple values and will stay just the titles property! All paper money, all bonds will have no value! Not in their interest to have a replacement value! This is the world's coup, to turn off their own debts and bankruptcy China, India, Russia together and everyone else. "

Edited March 3, 2012 by midas

[flying]

world currency

From the beginning I had thoughts that TPTB may want ultimately a world currency..

But the more I looked the more I realized they already do have it through Central Banks & their swapping.But still

the erasing/resetting of debt could be another reasons at some point?

One thing for certain is they are all reaching boiling points now. Interest alone is unserviceable & collapse or major change seems imminent .

Then again they have continued to surprise me even with the controlled decent so far

[Naam]

world currency

" But if you want to erase the debt will reset the value of the euro and the dollar together and in this way will create a new currency, which will enter the market, will eliminate all simple values and will stay just the titles property! All paper money, all bonds will have no value! Not in their interest to have a replacement value! This is the world's coup, to turn off their own debts and bankruptcy China, India, Russia together and everyone else. "

...and the roof of your house will be leaking, the slaves you were lusting for escaping, your good looking wives and concubines will abandon you, only the ugly ones will stay, wild boars will plough the fields where you grow potatoes and vegetables, elephants will ravish your rice paddies, the exquisite wines in your cellar will turn to vinegar, your money will be worthless because only bitcoins will be accepted for payments...

[midas]

world currency

" But if you want to erase the debt will reset the value of the euro and the dollar together and in this way will create a new currency, which will enter the market, will eliminate all simple values and will stay just the titles property! All paper money, all bonds will have no value! Not in their interest to have a replacement value! This is the world's coup, to turn off their own debts and bankruptcy China, India, Russia together and everyone else. "

...and the roof of your house will be leaking, the slaves you were lusting for escaping, your good looking wives and concubines will abandon you, only the ugly ones will stay, wild boars will plough the fields where you grow potatoes and vegetables, elephants will ravish your rice paddies, the exquisite wines in your cellar will turn to vinegar, your money will be worthless because only bitcoins will be accepted for payments...

you left out the bits about no more food stamps for 45 million hungry people in USA and the collapse of the great pension Ponzi

[midas]

Bleakest of views from the shopfronts

" THE Australian retail sector is in trouble like it's never been before. Not even in the dark days of the 1990 recession.

That should have been made blindingly clear when Woolworths, our biggest and most successful retail group, unveiled on Thursday its first drop in profit in nearly 20 years.

This story is repeated, with varying degrees of intensity, across all retail.

The casualty list is long and growing. From women's fashions - one of the mainstays of shopping - to housewares and home furnishings, to the big department stores.

Sales are struggling, profits are plunging, jobs are being slashed and names are disappearing from high streets and shopping centres."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/terry-mccranns-column/bleakest-of-views-from-the-shopfronts/story-e6frfig6-1226288297664

[midas]

Geithner arrested?

Judge Napolitano testifies of Treasury Secretary and Federal Reserve-insider Timothy Geither’s arrest in this 4-minute corporate news show.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/geithner-arrested-116-major-bank-resignations-what-the-finance-is-this.html

[Naam]

Geithner arrested?

Judge Napolitano testifies of Treasury Secretary and Federal Reserve-insider Timothy Geither’s arrest in this 4-minute corporate news show.

accused forging food stamps?

[ronz28]

Geithner arrested?

Judge Napolitano testifies of Treasury Secretary and Federal Reserve-insider Timothy Geither’s arrest in this 4-minute corporate news show.

http://www.washingto...ce-is-this.html

There was no such arrest- that's total BS. No news or secrets here. Just Fox "news"/propaganda Republican political wet dreams. Real disclosures were in the news back then and later... http://www.bloomberg...id=a__.69Q8BR04 I didn't like it then or now but it was a US gov. deal with the knowledge and consent of FED chairman Bernanke per this article and my recollection from reading articles at the time was that then Republican Secretary of Treasury Paulson, President Bush, etc.were totally aware and approved of this too. No way Mr. Geithner did this on his own. Fox propaganda can't rewrite history, its already documented. Edited March 7, 2012 by ronz28

[ronz28]

Rupert and his propaganda empire employees are the ones continuously in the real news for being arrested on various charges in multiple countries.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/murdoch-journalists-tried-to-take-own-lives-after-bribery-arrests-20120307-1uix9.html