Snap Report From Pattaya's "sister" City

[MeetJohnDoe]

Arrived at Clark from Bangkok on Cebu Pacific yesterday...plane left on time and 3 hours later I was in Angeles

I have not been here in 2 years and there has been allot of continued investment in large new hotels, restaurants, and entertainment spots. The main things I'm noticing is that the bars here are full to the rafters (I could not get a seat in a couple bars and had to leave), whereas Pattaya bars have been near empty since mi-January, after the Christmas/New Years crowds returned home. Most bar drinks are P50-100 or USD 1.00-2.00.

I have always found the shopping at the mall on Clark to be great value...the Caterpillar brand clothes shop has most everything marked down 50% and their steel-toed boots that go for P5-6k are really a good buy for P 2500-3000 (USD 53-63). These are the same quality boots that the Thailand Timberland stores sell for B 5-7k or USD 142-200. Also picked up a nice pair of no-name jeans at an outlet store for P 400 or about USD 8.50.

I know there is always complaints about a lack of good American breakfasts in Pattaya...but not so in Angeles. Being settled by many ex-US Military there is not shortage of good American fry-ups to be had. Real bacon, eggs, and hash browns galore, and even southern style chicken fried steak breakfasts, not to mention French toast, pancakes in both regular and dollar sizes and regular and short-stacks!

Hotels are more expensive in Angeles, than Pattaya, however, with a new place with standard amenities running from USD 50-75 a nite.

One other observation about the Clark SM Mall vs. our new Central Mall. While Central is much more "flash" I find more practical stuff at the SM. Their selection of foods is much more suited to an American's taste and much more variety...heck, there's even a Shakey's Pizza Also a GNC and another health food store, which is a catagory lacking at Central. The Central Department Store itself, however, is much more upscale than the anchor store at SM.

[wileycoyote]

Good report did you fly in with Air Asia ?

Edited February 1, 2009 by wileycoyote

[Baannok]

Good report did you fly in with Air Asia ?

Did you read the first sentence?

[MeetJohnDoe]

Good report did you fly in with Air Asia ?

Did you read the first sentence?

Obviously a speed reader...but has difficulty retaining what was read...no wonder he was always being outwitted by that annoying bird

No, I flew Cebu Pacific Air direct from Bangkok to the new Clark airport in Angeles.

Edited February 1, 2009 by MeetJohnDoe

[Baannok]

Thanks for the report by the way. I'm planning to go in March. May I ask you how much the flight was?

[foxxx]

how would you rate the crime to there vs here? less or just as safe?

[britmaveric]

security with machine guns everywhere - so I suppose that should tell you smth.

[basjke]

security with machine guns everywhere - so I suppose that should tell you smth.

So at least they will take care of your problem if something happens.

[syd barrett]

security with machine guns everywhere - so I suppose that should tell you smth.

Come on, machine guns? The best you will see is aged pump action shot guns and ancient revolvers.......

[PattayaParent]

security with machine guns everywhere - so I suppose that should tell you smth.

Come on, machine guns? The best you will see is aged pump action shot guns and ancient revolvers.......

It's the criminals with the machine guns.

[tropo]

security with machine guns everywhere - so I suppose that should tell you smth.

The don't have machine guns. The are very cheap, single loaded shot guns which hardly ever get used and probably don't even function in most cases. It's all show.

[tropo]

Arrived at Clark from Bangkok on Cebu Pacific yesterday...plane left on time and 3 hours later I was in Angeles

I have not been here in 2 years and there has been allot of continued investment in large new hotels, restaurants, and entertainment spots. The main things I'm noticing is that the bars here are full to the rafters (I could not get a seat in a couple bars and had to leave), whereas Pattaya bars have been near empty since mi-January, after the Christmas/New Years crowds returned home. Most bar drinks are P50-100 or USD 1.00-2.00.

I have always found the shopping at the mall on Clark to be great value...the Caterpillar brand clothes shop has most everything marked down 50% and their steel-toed boots that go for P5-6k are really a good buy for P 2500-3000 (USD 53-63). These are the same quality boots that the Thailand Timberland stores sell for B 5-7k or USD 142-200. Also picked up a nice pair of no-name jeans at an outlet store for P 400 or about USD 8.50.

I know there is always complaints about a lack of good American breakfasts in Pattaya...but not so in Angeles. Being settled by many ex-US Military there is not shortage of good American fry-ups to be had. Real bacon, eggs, and hash browns galore, and even southern style chicken fried steak breakfasts, not to mention French toast, pancakes in both regular and dollar sizes and regular and short-stacks!

Hotels are more expensive in Angeles, than Pattaya, however, with a new place with standard amenities running from USD 50-75 a nite.

One other observation about the Clark SM Mall vs. our new Central Mall. While Central is much more "flash" I find more practical stuff at the SM. Their selection of foods is much more suited to an American's taste and much more variety...heck, there's even a Shakey's Pizza Also a GNC and another health food store, which is a catagory lacking at Central. The Central Department Store itself, however, is much more upscale than the anchor store at SM.

I've now been in Pattaya for 3 years now after spending 3 years full time in Angeles City. AC may be fun for a visit, but it doesn't compare to Pattaya as a place to live. Pattaya is just about paradise compared to Angeles City despite a few comparitive short comings.

[Cuban]

I have a retired friend from LA, moved to Pattaya a few years ago, tired of it and moved on to Angeles last year. About a month ago he told me that Issan was the place to be - less crime than Angeles where you can't walk the streets at night, even with your own gun.

[BugJackBaron]

How is the , er, dating scene there?

I was there eight years ago and remember the good and cheap food

but was really disappointed with the girls. Here I was, a tourist from Canada with

good means , relatively young and not too bad looking...and none of the girls were

interested! At least none of the lookers.

Seems all they wanted were American GIs or rich Japanese.

Compared to Pattaya I would say its a specialized market...

[Rimmer]

security with machine guns everywhere - so I suppose that should tell you smth.

Come on, machine guns? The best you will see is aged pump action shot guns and ancient revolvers.......

That's not quite true, I was sitting in a bar in Clarke Ave a couple of years back when a police motor bike and side car (steel frame jobbie like we have here) pulled up the two policemen got off and went into a shop leaving their M16s propped up in the sidecar. I'd call those fully automatic weapons.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Rimmer

[unforgiven]

I have a retired friend from LA, moved to Pattaya a few years ago, tired of it and moved on to Angeles last year. About a month ago he told me that Issan was the place to be - less crime than Angeles where you can't walk the streets at night, even with your own gun.

if your sober and hsve a 38 all is good

[Mobi]

Tropo, you may well be right about Pattaya and its environs being a better place to live than Angeles City. When all is said and done, the infrastructure is better, there are many places to go and things to do in and near Pattaya and of course we have the whole of Thailand to travel around and enjoy.

But if we are comparing Pattaya (the area from Beach to 3^rd road) to Angeles City as a venue for sex tourists - let’s face it that’s what most tourists are - then IMHO there’s no contest.

I was in AC last year and here are a few of the pluses:

The girls are generally more beautiful. I have this theory that all the best looking girls in PI gravitate to AC, because outside of that area the quality drops remarkably.

They are generally younger and much higher percentage have no babies, which means their bodies are better. Believe it or not, around 20 % are virgins, but they will still go with you and do everything except let you “penetrate”.

They dress better and are generally better educated and more sophisticated than their Pattaya sisters.

They speak good English.

The bar fines are pretty standard throughout AC, and the girls get 50%. You don’t have to pay them any more (i. e. no stupid negotiations), but most punters give them a small tip.

There is no such thing as short time. If you pay the bar fine the girl will stay with you all night – if you want her to – no arguments.

The bars are all reasonably priced and the beer is very cheap. Most bars are managed by westerners (mainly retired Americans) and they always make you feel welcome and very often buy you at least one drink on the house. (I can’t remember the last time I was bought a free drink in Pattaya). Most bars have pretty good food which is often free in the evenings.

There are no closing restrictions on bars and many operate 24/7 and they are always full of girls.

The hotels are a little more expensive, but excellent value. Rooms are nice, with free condoms and high speed broadband, all the staff speak good English and are very friendly and helpful. The waitresses are lovely – at least they were in my hotel. Food was very good.

For smokers (not me) there are no smoking restrictions.

Yes, there is a lot of violence in PI but I didn’t and hear or see any untoward incidents and felt safe walking around at all hours of the day and night. I understand that The Police keep AC crime free as they want to protect their “investment”.

It’s difficult to think of any negatives – especially as you can now fly directly into Clark, and no longer have that long road journey from Manila.

So if Pattaya wishes to remain as a top tourist venue in this particular sector, then it had better pull its socks up pretty soon, or AC will just take over.

Maybe it’s time for Pattaya to go upmarket?

[Plus]

..complaints about a lack of good American breakfasts in Pattaya...but not so in Angeles. ...

...selection of foods is much more suited to an American's taste and much more variety...

...Most bars are managed by westerners (mainly retired Americans)...

How is it for non-Americans? I, personally, don't care about availability of American food.

[soundman]

Please keep the specifics of the "entertainment" trade comparisson between Pattaya and AC to a minimum, as I will have to remove them from this (interesting) topic.

Thankyou for your co-operation.

[Mobi]

How is it for non-Americans? I, personally, don't care about availability of American food.

It's fine. My hotel served a really good buffet breakfast (all eggs and other stuff cooked fresh while you wait) up to 11.00 am and they had 24 hour a la carte breakfast on the menu which contained everything you can imagine. American - English - Irish - take you choice. Plenty of economically priced restaurants on the strip as well.

[TJAN]

Tropo, you may well be right about Pattaya and its environs being a better place to live than Angeles City. When all is said and done, the infrastructure is better, there are many places to go and things to do in and near Pattaya and of course we have the whole of Thailand to travel around and enjoy.

But if we are comparing Pattaya (the area from Beach to 3^rd road) to Angeles City as a venue for sex tourists - let's face it that's what most tourists are - then IMHO there's no contest.

I was in AC last year and here are a few of the pluses:

The girls are generally more beautiful. I have this theory that all the best looking girls in PI gravitate to AC, because outside of that area the quality drops remarkably.

They are generally younger and much higher percentage have no babies, which means their bodies are better. Believe it or not, around 20 % are virgins, but they will still go with you and do everything except let you "penetrate".

They dress better and are generally better educated and more sophisticated than their Pattaya sisters.

They speak good English.

The bar fines are pretty standard throughout AC, and the girls get 50%. You don't have to pay them any more (i. e. no stupid negotiations), but most punters give them a small tip.

There is no such thing as short time. If you pay the bar fine the girl will stay with you all night – if you want her to – no arguments.

The bars are all reasonably priced and the beer is very cheap. Most bars are managed by westerners (mainly retired Americans) and they always make you feel welcome and very often buy you at least one drink on the house. (I can't remember the last time I was bought a free drink in Pattaya). Most bars have pretty good food which is often free in the evenings.

There are no closing restrictions on bars and many operate 24/7 and they are always full of girls.

The hotels are a little more expensive, but excellent value. Rooms are nice, with free condoms and high speed broadband, all the staff speak good English and are very friendly and helpful. The waitresses are lovely – at least they were in my hotel. Food was very good.

For smokers (not me) there are no smoking restrictions.

Yes, there is a lot of violence in PI but I didn't and hear or see any untoward incidents and felt safe walking around at all hours of the day and night. I understand that The Police keep AC crime free as they want to protect their "investment".

It's difficult to think of any negatives – especially as you can now fly directly into Clark, and no longer have that long road journey from Manila.

So if Pattaya wishes to remain as a top tourist venue in this particular sector, then it had better pull its socks up pretty soon, or AC will just take over.

Maybe it's time for Pattaya to go upmarket?

Its nearly the same as good Old United States.Only more virgins.

[tropo]

I went past the allowed number of blocks of quoted text, so I've changed to a colour coded format within your quote. My replies are in red.

Tropo, you may well be right about Pattaya and its environs being a better place to live than Angeles City. When all is said and done, the infrastructure is better, there are many places to go and things to do in and near Pattaya and of course we have the whole of Thailand to travel around and enjoy.

But if we are comparing Pattaya (the area from Beach to 3^rd road) to Angeles City as a venue for sex tourists - let’s face it that’s what most tourists are - then IMHO there’s no contest.

I was in AC last year and here are a few of the pluses:

You have made many incorrect assessments in regards to life in AC. Having spent 5 years there part time and 3 years full time and being a member of several AC message boards I have a lot experience with this topic.

The girls are generally more beautiful. I have this theory that all the best looking girls in PI gravitate to AC, because outside of that area the quality drops remarkably.

The most beautiful girls gravitate to Manila, Makati and Quezon City to "work". The girls you're seeing in the new mega-bars such as Atlantis are imports from Manila. Generally provincial girls gravitate to AC to find a foreigner to marry. The quality of girls is consistant throughout the Philippines except they don't dance in bikinis outside of the bar districts. I spend a few months every year in provincial areas of the Philippines and I can tell you that there plenty of lookers everywhere...you just have to imagine them in a bikini with makeup under dim lighting.

They are generally younger and much higher percentage have no babies, which means their bodies are better.

They are probably 5 to 10 years younger on average than Pattaya bargirls, averaging 18 - 22 mostly. Used to be 15 - 22, but they've tightened up on underage girls over the last 5 years. 25 is considered old for a bargirl in AC.

If we're comparing gogo girls, there are a lot more fat girls in AC than in Pattaya. Their diet is not as good and consists of far more fat. In my assessment the Pattaya gogo girls have better physiques overall.

Many of these girls have babies. This is often kept secret as not all girls display signs of childbirth. The birth rate amongst young Filipina is phenominally high.

Believe it or not, around 20 % are virgins, but they will still go with you and do everything except let you “penetrate”.

Don't you believe it! Although there are a fair number of cherry girls, you'll never know for sure who's telling you the truth. They often use the cherry girl excuse to avoid going with a punter. They apparently get checked for cherry once every 3 months, which allows them to work for quite awhile as cherry girls even if they are not. 20%...no way. It may seem that way late at night in some bars when all the non-cherries have gone barfine leaving only the cherries to stay and dance.

They dress better and are generally better educated and more sophisticated than their Pattaya sisters.

In reality what is considered good dress is a personal thing, but I find Pattaya girls are usually better dressed as they have access to far more cheap fashion clothing thanks to markets on just about every street corner and being older they are more fashion aware.

Most of the bargirls in AC have a very low education and the majority have never been to high school. Even if they have, it's probably only 1st or 2nd year. Most of these girls are dropouts from school as their families didn't have enough money to educate them..

They speak good English.

Many girls cannot speak much English due to their elementary only education and their young age. I've met many girls who could not speak any English at all. On a side note, my gf's parents in the Philippines cannot speak a word of English. Her brothers and sisters are also unable to converse in English. Most of the bargirls cannot speak much English when they first arrive in AC.

The bar fines are pretty standard throughout AC, and the girls get 50%. You don’t have to pay them any more (i. e. no stupid negotiations), but most punters give them a small tip.

This is actually quite an unfair comparison because the girls make a pittance compared to Pattaya bargirls. It's quite sad actually because AC dancers make around 150 pesos per night (3000 pesos per month) dancing compared to a minimun of 8,000 baht (10,800 pesos) per month for Pattaya dancers. Their take out commission is only about 25% of that of Pattaya girls. Not all bars pay the 50% commission. Most bars even charge the dancers for their outfits.

Yes, they are cheap in comparison...but this is not a good thing, it's just worse exploitation of the poor.

(This punter used to tip 500 - 1000 pesos)

There is no such thing as short time. If you pay the bar fine the girl will stay with you all night – if you want her to – no arguments.

This is simply not true. One of the most common gripes amongst punters these days is girls skipping (running) and/or not performing their "duties". Many girls are looking for short time or say they'll stay long time and then make an excuse and skip.

The bars are all reasonably priced and the beer is very cheap. Most bars are managed by westerners (mainly retired Americans) and they always make you feel welcome and very often buy you at least one drink on the house. (I can’t remember the last time I was bought a free drink in Pattaya). Most bars have pretty good food which is often free in the evenings.

Some bar may put on some free snacks, but calling these good food is a bit of a stretch. I wouldn't eat it.

There are no closing restrictions on bars and many operate 24/7 and they are always full of girls.

There's only one bar I know of which operates 24 hours - The Dollhouse. After 5am when all the other bars are closed the girls left in the Dollhouse are pretty rough. I spent many a sunrise in that bar.

Yes, there is a lot of violence in PI but I didn’t and hear or see any untoward incidents and felt safe walking around at all hours of the day and night.

There a terrific amount of street crime in AC and walking around at night is risky. I've had a cellphone snatched and a gun pulled on me..right outside a restaurant. I know people who were held up at knife point...one in the daytime. People are commonly mugged down the dark side streets at night. There are drive by shootings. One quite recently. You really should start reading the news to find out the true story.

I understand that The Police keep AC crime free as they want to protect their “investment”.

The police are part of the problem. They set foreigners up with drugs, underage girls etc and scam them for money...big money. There used to be tourist police, but this service was discountinued last year due to lack of funds. The police commit more crime than anyone else and they are not a presence on the streets at night. They hang out at their barracks thinking of ways to make money.

It’s difficult to think of any negatives – especially as you can now fly directly into Clark, and no longer have that long road journey from Manila.

So if Pattaya wishes to remain as a top tourist venue in this particular sector, then it had better pull its socks up pretty soon, or AC will just take over.

Pattaya is a tourist resort. AC has never been and never will be a tourist resort. It's the exclusive domain of sex-tourists. How many tourist families and females did you see there? None at all, I'm sure....they don't go there and they never will. You'll occasionally see some lesbos hitting the bars.

AC is a few streets with bars and that's it...nothing more.

Maybe it’s time for Pattaya to go upmarket?

It already is going upmarket. Didn't they just open a 6 floor shopping mall?

Have a look at some photos from 30 years ago and make the comparison. If you saw photos of AC 30 years ago you would hardly notice any changes at all. You wouldn't even recognise Pattaya from 30 years ago.

Edited February 2, 2009 by tropo

[soundman]

And after that rather enlightening & comprehensive report, topic closed as I really don't see that there is much more to be discussed about AC on Thai Visa without bending and breaking the forum rules.