viking639 Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 My thai friend has overstayed her UK Visa and also managed to lose her Thai passport. She is travelling back to Thailand soon but she wants to know, when she gets her new Thai passport, will she be able to travel outside Thailand again in the near future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Moved to here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 For the UK, see also 26.17 - Refusal where the applicant has previously breached the UK's immigration laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceboy Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 It doesn't sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 her exit from the UK is not likely to be recorded in the UK, only return to Thailand, so she can try to "lose" her new passport and apply for yet another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 her exit from the UK is not likely to be recorded in the UK, only return to Thailand, so she can try to "lose" her new passport and apply for yet another one. Oh dear, she is careless, overstaying and "losing" passports left, right and centre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) will she be able to travel outside Thailand again in the near future? Travel outside Thailand again - yes, but depends where. To return to the UK may be tricky for her as she'll, at the very least, have to explain exactly why she overstayed and give (believeable) assurances that she won't do it again if allowed entry. Depending on the exact circumstances (how long she overstayed, etc) she may be barred from the UK for a year or more. Edited February 4, 2009 by paully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 if she looses her new passaport there won't be any record of her overtaying in the UK. she should never admit to overstaying so no need to explain anything on a visa application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hmm. What about the questions: 'Have you been to the UK before?' 'Have you complied with immigration rules on your previous visit(s)?' Could leave the boxes blank on the application form (and therefore not lie), but then the Consulate will want responses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hmm. What about the questions: 'Have you been to the UK before?' 'Have you complied with immigration rules on your previous visit(s)?' Could leave the boxes blank on the application form (and therefore not lie), but then the Consulate will want responses... Leaving them blank would be lying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 reply should be 2 yes - they have a record of issuing the visa, but they don't have recorded return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 if she looses her new passaport there won't be any record of her overtaying in the UK. A couple of years ago an aquaintance of mine was given similar advice. She did not get her visa, indeed she was unable to apply for one. The Thai passport authorities became suspicious and refused to issue her another passport! Even with a new passport her personal details will be on file somewhere in the UKBA from her previous application. There is a possibility that her previous overstay will be discovered by some means, particularly as she will have to obtain a new passport of some kind from the RTE in London before she can leave the UK. Also the application asks about previous passports, answering that she has had two previous ones but lost them both within a short time scale is bound to raise suspicions in any ECOs mind. A previous overstay is not necessarily a bar to recieving another visa, lying on an application is! The only safe way, in my humble opinion, is to tell the truth and hope that they accept her explanation of, and contrition over, past mistakes. One very strong factor in her favour is that she is leaving the UK voluntarily, before she's been caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Going by the book, she should contact the police saying her passport is lost/stolen, then contact the Thai Embassy for a replacement. She should then apply to the UKBA for a replacement visa. This is where she will probably come unstack as she has already overstayed and if/when they have to contact the UK Embassy in Bangkok for visa details, they will discover this. It then depends how long she's overstayed as to what they will do, if anything. The OP doesn't state how long she's overstayed, but it will certainly affect her future visa applications. Might work in her favour if she does something asap and appears to be honest and sorry etc. If she doesn't they may consider her losing the passport to be a bit convenient and may then decide to up the seriousness of the overstay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariner29 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 She has lost all credibility and would have a difficult time applying for another visa. But she did return to her host country which even though late that is in her favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 She has lost all credibility and would have a difficult time applying for another visa. But she did return to her host country which even though late that is in her favour. She hasn't returned to Thailand yet, he said she is travelling back soon. viking639, yes, she will be able to travel outside Thailand again in the near future, but she may find that the UK and some other western countries may need a bit more proof that she will comply in the future as she has received a visa on trust from the UK and then failed to return, plus the loss of the passport may be seen as a feeble attempt at covering this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eff1n2ret Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Going by the book, she should contact the police saying her passport is lost/stolen, then contact the Thai Embassy for a replacement. She should then apply to the UKBA for a replacement visa. The worst possible advice. If such an application is made to UKBA (which she'd have to pay for) it would automatically be refused as being out of time, with no right of appeal, and she would most probably be served with papers as an overstayer and might be detained and removed. All that would be on record, and she would thereafter automatically be refused another UK visa for the next 10years. She should get a new passport, book a flight and leave. If her departure is not recorded, it's up to her what she declares on a future application, but as 7by7 points out, if she's caught in a lie, the same 10-year ban will apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 She should report the passports loss to the police as it is highly unlikley that the RTE will issue her a new one or a travel document without a police lost property report. I agree that making any application in the UK to regularise her status is probably doomed to fail, unless there are circumstances we don't know about, so as soon as she has a new passport or travel document she should leave the UK and return to Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Going by the book, she should contact the police saying her passport is lost/stolen, then contact the Thai Embassy for a replacement. She should then apply to the UKBA for a replacement visa. The worst possible advice. If such an application is made to UKBA (which she'd have to pay for) it would automatically be refused as being out of time, with no right of appeal, and she would most probably be served with papers as an overstayer and might be detained and removed. All that would be on record, and she would thereafter automatically be refused another UK visa for the next 10years. She should get a new passport, book a flight and leave. If her departure is not recorded, it's up to her what she declares on a future application, but as 7by7 points out, if she's caught in a lie, the same 10-year ban will apply. If you read my post it wasn't giving advice. If I was offering advice I'd put, "I would..." or "I would advise...". I said, "Going by the book", ie this is what she should do if she wants to do everything legally, but she is in the UK illegally anyway. Normally, people have nothing to fear and should go by the book as they need a valid passport and visa to remain in the UK and won't have overstayed. This person has overstayed and then lost her passport. I think that to get a new temporary or emergency passport from most embassies you HAVE to first report it to the local police. Most embassies require a police reference number to issue an emergency travel doc. The problem is that the police could take it upon themselves to phone the UKBA up, unlikely, but they could. Also, people are now having checks done on their passports as they leave the country. Ok, not everyone has their passport & visas examined thoroughly, but they do check some passports as you leave. I have had my passport checked at Heathrow and my passport checked and car searched once when I left the country on the channel tunnel train. So she will have to gamble that she can (a) get a passport without reporting to the police and ( leave the country without having her passport checked. Whatever she chooses to do she will run the risk that her overstay will be discovered and none of us know how long she has overstayed, so we can't speculate on potential problems. It may be that her initial visa was for 6 months and she's been here a number of years, in which case it's a bit more serious than a couple of weeks overstaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Going by the book, she should contact the police saying her passport is lost/stolen, then contact the Thai Embassy for a replacement. She should then apply to the UKBA for a replacement visa. The worst possible advice. If such an application is made to UKBA (which she'd have to pay for) it would automatically be refused as being out of time, with no right of appeal, and she would most probably be served with papers as an overstayer and might be detained and removed. All that would be on record, and she would thereafter automatically be refused another UK visa for the next 10years. She should get a new passport, book a flight and leave. If her departure is not recorded, it's up to her what she declares on a future application, but as 7by7 points out, if she's caught in a lie, the same 10-year ban will apply. If she applies for another UK visa and has got the other one recently, her biometric data will be on the Embassy system and they'll have a record of her past visa, so if she doesn't declare it, they'll know she's lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansgti Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 My thai friend has overstayed her UK Visa and also managed to lose her Thai passport. She is travelling back to Thailand soon but she wants to know, when she gets her new Thai passport, will she be able to travel outside Thailand again in the near future? She can get a new passport in the uk after reporting the old one lost or stolen at the police station in the area where she lost it. She should then leave on her own accord not waiting to get arrested and deported. She can try again for a new visa again with all supporting evidence in the British Embassey Bangkok. If she has good supporting evidence and tells the truth she should get another visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 We have been concentrating on another UK visa, maybe a bit too much. Viking, you asked when she gets her new Thai passport, will she be able to travel outside Thailand again in the near future? The simple answer is, yes. Assuming she has a valid passport she will be able to travel outside Thailand. Travel to a country that does not require Thais to have a visa should present no difficulty. However, if she needs to apply to any country for a visa then her UK history may cause her a problem; but not as big a problem as lying about it and getting caught in that lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 tells the truth Yes, that's usually the best advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maizefarmer Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 ... the problem here folks - and this is from the horses mouth (i.e a Consular Section employee): The nice clean new passport in the hands of an applicant who has "lost" their previous passport (which is what happens to conceal the Thai re-entry stamp following return from the UK - overstay or no overstay), is always a red flag - especially if its been issued to replace a lost/missing passport that would overwise still be valid i.e. within the 5year lifespan of Thai passports. The first port of call for the Clearence Officer? (through the liason officer - and all the UK embassy consular sections have a liason officer) - ask Thai Immigration for the applicants border entry/exit records. Game up! While it is correct that on the UK side there is currently no direct way to link an overstayer between a previous and subsequent visa application (so long as they have not come to attention for any other reason while overstaying), come application for the subsequnet visa, the above is "but one of a 101 different indicators" which attract the attention of processing staff, and lead to further enquiries been undertaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boggzzy Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 if she looses her new passaport there won't be any record of her overtaying in the UK.she should never admit to overstaying so no need to explain anything on a visa application are you guys for real..... have you never heard about computers or airline manifesto's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 While it is correct that on the UK side there is currently no direct way to link an overstayer between a previous and subsequent visa application (so long as they have not come to attention for any other reason while overstaying), come application for the subsequnet visa, the above is "but one of a 101 different indicators" which attract the attention of processing staff, and lead to further enquiries been undertaken. as you have probably read, boggzzy, computers or airline manifestos are not used for as often as you think on a routine basis - the might be used by the special branch (terorism) or customs (drug smuggling), but not the emmigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinclapham Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 her exit from the UK is not likely to be recorded in the UK, only return to Thailand, so she can try to "lose" her new passport and apply for yet another one........an old trick, and unlikely to work, because al records are kept.... Airline will inform immigraton of her departure from the uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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