Goodbye To A One Nice Forum.

[Khun Jean]

I made a decision. And that is to say this forum farewell.

The amount of advertising is getting in the way of what the forum is for (i am not talking about the owner but the users).

On top of that is that every single important topic that would be pinned on any other site disappears on page 50 and further. This last point actually makes me sure this forum is not meant to be informative but more a search till you drop forum (and in this process have the chance to show as much advertisement as possible).

Seeing topics appear again and again is the proof of that. Many posters having good information are tired to provide it every time again.

I will check in once every month to see if something changes for the better, and to see what came of this topic.

Best wishes for all.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Khun Jean

[yabaaaa]

I made a decision. And that is to say this forum farewell.

The amount of advertising is getting in the way of what the forum is for (i am not talking about the owner but the users).

On top of that is that every single important topic that would be pinned on any other site disappears on page 50 and further. This last point actually makes me sure this forum is not meant to be informative but more a search till you drop forum (and in this process have the chance to show as much advertisement as possible).

Seeing topics appear again and again is the proof of that. Many posters having good information are tired to provide it every time again.

I will check in once every month to see if something changes for the better, and to see what came of this topic.

Best wishes for all.

Good luck Jean am sure you will get a load of "bugger off types along next" I get bored with ridiculous arguments sometime and when im there I rarely even look at it.

[AlexLah]

Come on KJ, what kind of attitude is that?

Why not come up with some suggestions on how to improve this forum?

I fully agree that the search function is not helpfull at all but they are busy trying to improve things by asking people to tag content.

I also agree that there should be more sticky's, specially for the Visa and workpermit section.

Advertisements are needed to keep this site up, not many people work for free.

I seldom notice the advertisements and I think the only one I ever clicked was for the Thai language school.

I suggested to make a few sticky's for in the Job and economy section as there is a lot of interest in finance stuff and world events now with the so called crisis but I guess I have to compile a list and then submit for review.

There are many bright minded people on here including you that could come up with very valid suggestions on how to improve the Thaivisa experience.

Let's be constructive!

Kind regards,

Alex

[happylarry]

I can understand your feelings mate after reading a post on here tonight.

Someone simply asking for a lift to see a Rod Stewart concert and then getting moronic comments posted about one of life's true stars. Its pitiful.

HL

[Khun Jean]

I have suggested a few topics to be pinned, will never happen. Anything that is detrimental to sales of houses, visas will not be pinned.

The advertisements are just too much. And they are animated which makes it worse. Loading time of google advertisements is long as are the ones on the top. With the new advertisements placed between posts and the new sidebar i think it is overkill. More screen 'realestate' is reserved for advertisements then for posts. Posts that are the main attraction AND content of this site.

Loading times are ever increasing. It is almost as the rest of the financial markets. It is just too much and it is causing a hyperinflation of advertisements (Money) and a deflation of interesting posts (Assets).

One reason for this topic is to prevent more people turning their backs. I expect people to try to find another source of information which in the end will be the exact opposite what the owners of the site want, i think.

Many people will just not come back and are unnoticed for a long time. I announce it, together with my personal reasons, so that at least it is clear that i move on. If others would do that too i guess it will be a source of information as to why people are leaving.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Khun Jean

[AlexLah]

Yo, KJ, you can turn off the add stuff you know if you are bothered by that.

[Guest Reimar]

All suggestions how to improve the forum are welcome!

But you also should keep in mind that except just a few, the post's are made by the members of this forum which indicates that this forum is mainly build by it's members itself.

Those who are telling that they want to leave the forum because of it's style pp., should also realize that even them's own topics and post a part of that what this forum is today.

A logic consequence would be to improve the forum instead of leave it.

That's just my two Satang's!

Cheers./

[jamesc2000]

This reminds me of the man on the ledge threatening to jump.

If he wanted to he would have done it already!

But they always hang around just talking about why they wanna jump!

[AlexLah]

As I said KJ, please come up with suggestions on how to improve the experience.

Mod's are willing to listen.

Come on!

Alex

[Mobi]

Hi Khun Jean,

I am sorry that you are leaving, as you have been a great contributor to the real estate forums.

I understand how you feel, and I too have felt very frustrated with Thai Visa from time to time.

I too experience "help fatigue" when the same questions on various sub forums come up time and time again, and i have more or less given up replying to most of them. More judicious pinning of information would certainly be an improvement.

As would the search facility - it is absolutely hopeless, as many before me have observed. I don't understand as they have successfully upgraded their site many times over the past couple of years, but still have failed to address this long standing problem.

Most of my issues with Thai visa cannot be discussed in open forum, but I have expressed my opinions very forcefully from time to time in PM's with various Mods. I can't honestly say that it has done much good, and there was one particular occasion when I nearly took the same action as you are now doing, but at least I got replies and was able to hear their side of the story.

So on reflection, I decided to soldier on.

We all understand that it is a commercial operation, but unfortunately most of the people running it are unpaid, (probably un-vetted) volunteers, so it is obvious that there will be inherent weaknesses in administration and management, and IMHO some of the short sighted policies are more of a hindrance to income growth than they (the management) realise.

[JimsKnight]

Well I dislike the new ads below post 1 and 2 with a blazing intensity!

Even my own websites aren't so 'doinky' in this quirky advertising regard.

It's disjointed, uneven and very un-easy on the eye. If there was a linear path to it (like halfway down the page) I think people would have less issue. But having them 'jump' out straight after the top banners isn't very aesthetic.

C'mon George, experimental ads a go-go as it's your castle but this needs adjusting a touch mate

That said I'm not driven to abandoning the forum at such haste.

[Ijustwannateach]

Um, I'm afraid we need to keep the discussion of ad removal out of the public forum.

I agree with KJ that the search function could be improved (the tags may help with that). Thread pinning is up to each individual forum mod; but in many forums if too many threads are pinned it gets annoying as threads slip off the first page more quickly. On the other hand, in the teacher's forum we do a lot of thread merging for topics with similar themes (like questions about qualifications for those who want to start teaching in Thailand). But it's up to the subforum moderators, who are all (as has been pointed out) volunteers.

[Mobi]

Yo, KJ, you can turn off the add stuff you know if you are bothered by that.

Interesting. How do we turn the ads off?

Read my post above.

Right now there are nil ads on my Thai Visa pages. Sometimes I get the sponsor Ad at the top of the page but nothing else, but now I have nothing, just blank spaces where the ads usually appear, and no download time either.

Oh deary deary me. I see my earlier post has been edited. Well if anyone wants to PM me I'll discuss the price of rice with them

Edited February 9, 2009 by Mobi

[JohnJackson]

I made a decision. And that is to say this forum farewell.

The amount of advertising is getting in the way of what the forum is for (i am not talking about the owner but the users).

On top of that is that every single important topic that would be pinned on any other site disappears on page 50 and further. This last point actually makes me sure this forum is not meant to be informative but more a search till you drop forum (and in this process have the chance to show as much advertisement as possible).

Seeing topics appear again and again is the proof of that. Many posters having good information are tired to provide it every time again.

I will check in once every month to see if something changes for the better, and to see what came of this topic.

Best wishes for all.

I hear you dude.

Thing is, you have a responsibility to the people, dont give up because of the pathetic obstacles that are thrown in your way

[Ijustwannateach]

I suppose now would be a good time to remind people that discussion of moderation, etc., will get you in trouble here. If you want a serious discussion of the specific issues KJ raises, and don't want to see the thread closed, don't go there.

Personally, I like KJ a lot and hope he will stick around.

[jcon]

I have suggested a few topics to be pinned, will never happen. Anything that is detrimental to sales of houses, visas will not be pinned.

The advertisements are just too much. And they are animated which makes it worse. Loading time of google advertisements is long as are the ones on the top. With the new advertisements placed between posts and the new sidebar i think it is overkill. More screen 'realestate' is reserved for advertisements then for posts. Posts that are the main attraction AND content of this site.

Loading times are ever increasing. It is almost as the rest of the financial markets. It is just too much and it is causing a hyperinflation of advertisements (Money) and a deflation of interesting posts (Assets).

One reason for this topic is to prevent more people turning their backs. I expect people to try to find another source of information which in the end will be the exact opposite what the owners of the site want, i think.

Many people will just not come back and are unnoticed for a long time. I announce it, together with my personal reasons, so that at least it is clear that i move on. If others would do that too i guess it will be a source of information as to why people are leaving.

I share these sentiments. Actually, today after that thread about those ridiculous ads in the first posts, I was peeved - almost to the point of doing what you're doing Jean - saying goodbye forever. Also, it would stop this TV addiction that seems to happen to a lot of people... people need to get out more (myself included), and these recent events just may be the catalyst.

BTW, I've been wondering this for awhile... where are LaoPo and Steveromagnino???? They were very regular posters, esp in the finance section - were they victims of the financial crisis??? Seems like we're losing good members and gaining trolls from "The Nation." I'm not sure that was the best move... soon it'll just be the old hands and newbies, nobody in between...

Anyway, best of luck KJ. Ever heard of the "Not the Nation" website?... if you're looking for an alternative, perhaps, er... I just think I came up with a new business plan...................

[pop_corn]

chok dee!!!

[Khun Jean]

Posts by obnoxious users are easily ignored so that is not a reason at all. I post seldom in 'whatever else that doesn't ft in a category' anyway.

I think with me it is mainly the combination of add placement, topic content and repetitiveness of posts. This all can be managed a lot better in my opinion. Advertisements are necessary as nobody else will pay the bills. However it is in the websites control on how to place those adds and how those adds have to fit in the total design.

As this forum is just a product with some ability to adjust its look it is even more important to consider advertisement placement.

On the forums index page the right hand column is downright a disaster. Forums use a lot of text and that means you will need a lot of horizontal space. If this was in the form of a blog it would be a different story. The layout now does not break that much anymore as before, so that is already better.

When you look at a page (like the one you are looking at know) it is a large block on top with many times an ad that uses a lot of animation.

Right under it is a grayish bar with some highlights that beckon attention. How they will get attention with a blaring add right above it escapes me. The highlights are advertisements. Search is somewhere around in this area, but the area is already 'scanned' and considered an ad area.

The next area is the 'You are loggied in as '. with some menus for your settings and pm's. I know it is there otherwise i would no expect it to be there. Why because the next line is a google ad, follow by a breadcrumb line followed by another block of google ads. And right under it Then you have the Tags line, followed directly by another large block of graphical ads.

The effect is that the whole area from the top to the start of the topic is considered an ad area.

I have to scroll down a whole page view to get to the topic.As i do that i put the topic title as high as possible to get rid of the blinking distractors. From that moment on it gets a little better as finally here is the content. But after one post you get another google ads area. and a pretty large one too. This ad doesn't bother me too much as it is not blinking, or flashy colors.

The most important feature 'search' is very difficult to find. I know where i should expect it, but newer users probably never seen it. I guess a large portion arrives somewhere by doing a search on google. But once arrived not much else is easily found. Even the links to go to the index pages. I believe that content is the biggest attraction so being able to find information quickly would be a reason for people to stay. Once they are used to its format further delving in other forums and topics will happen.

For long time users it is the repetative topics that can be a little too much. But that is part of a forum. A big improvement can be made however by pinning important topics. Some are already done. think about sinsod. But others like house ownership, an area i know something about, is after almost 5 years of repeating questions still not pinned. That gives me the impression that pinning such information is against policy. I care much about that particular topic because i have seen firsthand what disasters can happen when people not have the correct information. I am not the best writer and i sometimes ramble a bit, so i don't expect any of my posts being pinned, but there were a few good posts, even by lawyers that are not pinned. And that is i think not a good strategy.

A lot of posters i got to know are already gone (why?), and a few new good ones arrived. Content will be recycled every month, instead of being finetuned and getting better and more complete. I would like to help people understand more about Thai peculiarities as are many others. Seeing your information disappear never to be found again makes the effort futile. and that is not good for the long term prospects of this site.

Edited February 9, 2009 by Khun Jean

[cloudbusting]

^ Have to agree with all that has been said above.

And the non-forum part of the site is a lot worse.

[Owain]

I made a decision. And that is to say this forum farewell.

The amount of advertising is getting in the way of what the forum is for (i am not talking about the owner but the users).

On top of that is that every single important topic that would be pinned on any other site disappears on page 50 and further. This last point actually makes me sure this forum is not meant to be informative but more a search till you drop forum (and in this process have the chance to show as much advertisement as possible).

Seeing topics appear again and again is the proof of that. Many posters having good information are tired to provide it every time again.

I will check in once every month to see if something changes for the better, and to see what came of this topic.

Best wishes for all.

That is how forums tend to work. If every good subject was pinned then you would have to wade thru 50 pages of the pinned stuff before you get to anything else. Advertising is a apart of every forum as well although not really liked it is up to the owners if they want to make money or not. Anybody could run a forum without adverts it is not that expensive to run but the need for money normally transcends that.

[TomBrown]

Sorry to read you are thinking of leaving the forum Khun Jean. Well as you said, do log in once in a while if you feel like it. Take care mate.

As the opportunity has now presented itself;

I also feel the same way with regard to several points made under this topic.

Something that really annoys me is when I 'eventually' find content / topic that relates to the same issue or problem I have, at the end is a promise from a forum member to follow up once done / experience / etc, but then I notice the date was a couple of years ago and there is no follow up, that sucks.

Searching takes so much time to find what I want to know. Sometimes I have just plodded on with life without getting the answer, even though I know it must be in the forums somewhere, which has ended up negatively impacting on my situation in Thailand, but as some might say; you get what you pay for and ThaiVisa is free.

Personally I find many 'animated' graphics annoying and distracts the eye from reading the forum content, though pressing the [Esc] key stops them animating, so that's not that much of a problem :-)

Here's a suggestion; can't someone with know-how create a dynamic Flash or even static graphic chart relating to the usual visa questions based on all the 'useful' content already hidden in the forum pages? There are some things I still want to know, but fed up trolling the pages. I do see the same questions being asked time and time again, contributing to the watering down of the effectiveness of the search results, when really they could be directed to a dynamic flash page that could guide users through what they need based on what they already have, especially with visa related stuff. [Please select your visa type, is a 1 / 2 / 3 / 6 / 12 month visa, do you have a Thai bank account, etc etc., based on your answers you need the following... can also read the following topics...] If that were in place, lots of dud posts could certainly be removed.

Maybe the mods can get together and come up with some layouts that meet the web site's needs and get the users to vote on which they would feel most happy with. After all it's user generated content, so why shouldn't the users have a say.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that.

[GungaDin]

I'm not up on terms used but if http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/ is regarded as the "Index" page,

it's a disaster, a dog's dinner is an understatement, & I avoid it like the plague.

I have never seen such a mess on ANY forum "index".

[JetsetBkk]

I'm not up on terms used but if http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/ is regarded as the "Index" page,

it's a disaster, a dog's dinner is an understatement, & I avoid it like the plague.

I have never seen such a mess on ANY forum "index".

Do you know that you can collapse the major forum sections, so that all you see is:

Visa & Immigration Forums

Thailand News

General

Business in Thailand, Jobs in Thailand

etc.

You can then expand the section you're interested in.

Also, there is a lot of good, but possibly out of date, information here: http://www.thaivisa.com

Just hover your mouse over the links at the very top and you get drop-down menus and sub-menus. I don't think most people know that it's there!

[JetsetBkk]

...this forum is not meant to be informative but more a search till you drop forum ....

Have you tried the "Google Custom Search" box at the top left of each page?

It's just like Google and is infinitely better than Invision's Search button.

[jcon]

Yo, KJ, you can turn off the add stuff you know if you are bothered by that.

Interesting. How do we turn the ads off?

Read my post above.

Right now there are nil ads on my Thai Visa pages. Sometimes I get the sponsor Ad at the top of the page but nothing else, but now I have nothing, just blank spaces where the ads usually appear, and no download time either.

Oh deary deary me. I see my earlier post has been edited. Well if anyone wants to PM me I'll discuss the price of rice with them

I sent u a PM Mobi, but I guess you're asleep, as should I be... but I figured out what you were talking about and now I don't get a headache everytime I look at the TV pages.... wow, what a difference. No moving images, no flashing sunbelt stuff, no sweet massage girls ads, nada.... ok I guess I'll stick around some more Thanks Mobi.

[ShugNorris]

I'd imagine it costs an absolute fortune to host this site and the forums and I'm sure TV dont only want to recouperate server costs with the amount of time always put in to the site.

Of course threads of the same subject come up a lot! There are tens of thousands of members!

Getting so irritated by a post on the internet by a username is quite pathetic in my opinion, you've said your piece and have had people showing you they care ... If every user decided to express their ailments in their own topic (and thus adding to the very problem you complain about) then I'm sure it would be hel_l for the moderators anyway.

I appreciate you've been a member a lot longer than me and I dont mean any disrespect to you personally but normally if you, or anyone else posts a message, they get it answered...

- Shug

[wontok]

We used to have the lofi version which was great for those of us on slow connections, and was free of distractinfg flashing images etc. This went off the air some time ago, with software issues being blamed. I notice that many other fora that use the same software as Thaivisa currently have lofi versions up and running - is there any chance we can have ours back?

[JacknDanny]

Um, I'm afraid we need to keep the discussion of ad removal out of the public forum.

I agree with KJ that the search function could be improved (the tags may help with that). Thread pinning is up to each individual forum mod; but in many forums if too many threads are pinned it gets annoying as threads slip off the first page more quickly. On the other hand, in the teacher's forum we do a lot of thread merging for topics with similar themes (like questions about qualifications for those who want to start teaching in Thailand). But it's up to the subforum moderators, who are all (as has been pointed out) volunteers.

Can you kindly point me in the direction of where in the forum rules, it states that ad removals or discussions of ads affecting the site, cannot be discussed?

From my point of you I understand that the owners of this site are not a charitable organisation, and it is a fine balance between making money and keeping everybody happy.

It would be impossible to run this site without advertisers and advertisments. However I have noticed a spike in annoying adverts recently, with all these flashing lights etc, etc. Apart from anything else it makes the loading of the pages very very slow, and in my opinion detracts from what I thought was the purpose of the site, ie information and sharing of views.

Swings and roundabouts, I'm afraid.

[RakJungTorlae]

This reminds me of the man on the ledge threatening to jump.

If he wanted to he would have done it already!

But they always hang around just talking about why they wanna jump!

yeah lol. but im waiting and hopeing for him to jump!!!!

[sbk]

Um, I'm afraid we need to keep the discussion of ad removal out of the public forum.

I agree with KJ that the search function could be improved (the tags may help with that). Thread pinning is up to each individual forum mod; but in many forums if too many threads are pinned it gets annoying as threads slip off the first page more quickly. On the other hand, in the teacher's forum we do a lot of thread merging for topics with similar themes (like questions about qualifications for those who want to start teaching in Thailand). But it's up to the subforum moderators, who are all (as has been pointed out) volunteers.

Can you kindly point me in the direction of where in the forum rules, it states that ad removals or discussions of ads affecting the site, cannot be discussed?

From my point of you I understand that the owners of this site are not a charitable organisation, and it is a fine balance between making money and keeping everybody happy.

It would be impossible to run this site without advertisers and advertisments. However I have noticed a spike in annoying adverts recently, with all these flashing lights etc, etc. Apart from anything else it makes the loading of the pages very very slow, and in my opinion detracts from what I thought was the purpose of the site, ie information and sharing of views.

Swings and roundabouts, I'm afraid.

7) Spam, flooding, commercial or for-profit advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and similar solicitations are also inappropriate and not allowed on thaivisa.com. Any member who might violate this prohibition will be banned from these forums and this site. Membership is at the will of thaivisa.com. Our contracts with our advertisers prohibit comments with regard to advertisements which appear on our forums. Such comments should not be posted and will be removed. Please don't drop promotional urls, signature files, or specifics that would lead people to your site.

And while it does not specifically state ad removal, as you are well aware, it is not free for george to run this site, he must pay for the servers etc etc etc. To block ads is to say, essentially, that you want him to pay for everything, you want a say in how its run and yet you are unwilling to help him out by allowing ads.