Thaksin To Face New Corruption Charge Over Improper Bank Loans

[Pierrot]

Fact is Hillary Clinton gave Thailand a miss on her 4 nation maiden tour of Asia

This is an insult to all Thai people, and repercussions will be severe.

I really like your sense of humour

Repercussions will be severe, like ....???? When America sneeze, Thailand reaches for tissues !

[jdinasia]

Woa there boy. Perhaps you'de better post again when you've calmed down a bit. Go and have a nice cup of tea.

and still no magic # ....

[justanothercybertosser]

and still no magic # ....

There is no "magic number", and there is no definition of a "reign of terror". It is infantile semantics trying to score points for a cheap victory, sidelining the issues at discussion.

As it was mentioned - calling Thaksin's rule a "reign of terror" is a very distasteful exaggeration, and disrespects cynically the victims of states that can truly described as reign of terror - places such as Burma and North Korea. Or do you now propose to invent new phrases such as "reign of very evil terror" to describe those in order to justify your assessment of TRT administration?

Harping on about the drug war killings gets rather stale. No government after Thaksin, including the military government, and this one, has shown any real interest in solving the drug war killings. The only thing that has been done was forming a "committee". Solving those killings would be more than uncomfortable for many, and they will fall under the table such as every single of the very similar mass killings in the last few decades here, such as Vietnamese boat people in the 80's, socialists/communists in the 70's, etc.

And many would also call the time the Democrat government has completely ignored the drug problem as a "reign of terror" - the terror where drugs had such a massive hold on Thai society that almost every family was affected. But maybe you don't remember those years because you have not lived in Thailand that long.

But don't worry - these days are coming back, and then maybe you will realize how bad it is when the drugs rule.

The killings and disappearances in the South went on throughout the military installed Surayudh government, and still go on. I would suggest reading the relevant reports such as by Amnesty International and the International Crises Group. The military government has not done anything substantial on these issues, and neither has this government, and will not do either. Mostly, because if you look at the details - the ones responsible for the most memorable events have been firstly military officers, and not Thaksin. One event, the Krue Sue killings, were even ordered by a later PAD sympatisant and close friend of Chamlong Srimuang - Pallop Pinmanee - against direct orders of the TRT government. This is documented and clearly proven.

The topic of this threat, and question at hand, are new corruption investigations, and not the endless tirades about how evil Thaksin was in your view, and justifying this with outlandish exaggerations. The poster who you started this new bickering match has clearly stated that he would not mind to see a full investigation into those loans. What then is your problem? That he does not hate thaksin as singlemindedly as you appear to do?

What one should ask for is impartiality of the law, and that unfortunately is not given by the investigating bodies. Otherwise we would also read about Sondhi's long involvement with Viroj, who was his financial adviser, and the very shady debt relief that was given to Sondhi by Krung Thai Bank.

This, to the sensible observer, stinks of purely politically motivated persecution. Not the actions of a government that pretends to the gullible outsider to be a government of national reconciliation.

Edited February 19, 2009 by justanothercybertosser

[dee123]

And still the Red shirts/Pheu Thai want this corrupt, bent, wayward, untrustworthy, dodgy, unreliable, slimy, arrogant, dishonest, bent, crooked, unscrupulous, debauched, shady piece of refuse back as their leader??

That is why the"Red Shirts" have a split........in allegencies,.....well spotted!

[hammered]

Thaksin to face fresh charge

The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) planned to file a new corruption criminal charge against fugitive deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra, accusing him of damaging the economic system by allowing Krung Thai Bank Public Company Limited to issue large amount of credits when he was a premier, NACC member Klanarong Chantik said on Wednesday. The charge was filed to the Attorney-General before it will be forwarded to the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions for deliberation, he said. Previously, the now-defunct Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) submitted the case to the Attorney-General, but the information were deemed inadequate. A committee was then set up on July 29, 2008 to gather further evidence. The information are now complete, according to

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...ce-fresh-charge

In an another place, another time, I would be hailed a hero

The charges do seem to have a silly titel. However there does seem to be a paperchain to at least Thaskin's son - on svearl fronts - and a witness. This case may actually turn out to be a more evidentially solid one that both thaksin critics have said is needed and Thaksin supporters have said doesnt exist. We will see, but I dont think ths case will be seeing Thaksin of any of his supporters laugh as direct evidence does seem to be there.

[Plus]

What one should ask for is impartiality of the law, and that unfortunately is not given by the investigating bodies. Otherwise we would also read about Sondhi's long involvement with Viroj, who was his financial adviser, and the very shady debt relief that was given to Sondhi by Krung Thai Bank.

This, to the sensible observer, stinks of purely politically motivated persecution.

What makes you think that Sondhi't loan was illegal?

In your logic if MUST be declared illegal in the name of "impartiality".

I'll repeat - Sondhi is still fighting his own bankrupcy case that is far from over and could see him lose control of Manager, I believe. Does that sound impartial to you?

[sriracha john]

Another Battle Lost by Thaksin

Finally, the Krung Thai loan scandal is going to the Supreme Court. Five months ago, this could be big headline news. Under current circumstances, it will only mean the next phone-in by Thaksin Shinawatra will sound much more bitter and belligerent.

The case, in which Thaksin and his son Panthongtae are accused of being the influence behind illegal loans extended to affiliates of the Krisada Mahanakhon Group, had seemed to be going nowhere due to reservations from the public prosecutors. The impasse fueled suspicion about connections between the fugitive former prime minister and the Office of the Attorney-General.

Last June, the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) submitted more than 50,000 pages to the Attorney-General's Office seeking to indict Thaksin, son Panthongtae, and some former board members of Krung Thai Bank (KTB) over the alleged loan irregularities involving the Krisda Mahanakorn Group. The prosecutors' reservations stalled the case, and when the AEC became defunct and taken over by the National Counter Corruption Commission, it was tabled for a joint review by the skeptical prosecutors and the NCCC.

So, the most significant thing about the latest development is the prosecutors' green light, after the joint review found enough grounds and additional evidence to pursue the AEC's case. The review process has been overshadowed by other major political developments including Thaksin's conviction in the Ratchadapisek land case, which, in fact, was a lesser case compared to this one.

The charges involve using political influences to grant massive bank loans to unqualified recipients already plagued with non-performing loans. Among suspicious activities are:

1. A loan of 500 Million Baht extended to RK Professional on September 11, 2003.

2. A loan of 9.9 Billion Baht extended to Golden Technology Industrial Park on Sept 11, 2003.

3. A total of 118.5 Million preferred shares worth 1.1 Billion Baht issued by Krisada Mahanakorn which ended up in KTB's hands saw a big drop in value.

The first complaint was lodged by the Bank of Thailand and some KTB executives were implicated. Later, the KTB, under pressure, lodged their own complaint with the AEC against Thaksin, but sparing its own executives and officials.

In an initial probe by an AEC sub-committee, 32 people and five companies were found to be involved in the alleged fraud which reportedly cost the state up to 4.5 Billion Baht.

It might be unnecessary to call this the "last nail in Thaksin's coffin." However, this development only ensures that he will remain on the run, with the chances of getting at least some of the frozen assets back remaining as remote as ever.

- The Nation / 2009-02-20

[ThNiner]

And still the Red shirts/Pheu Thai want this corrupt, bent, wayward, untrustworthy, dodgy, unreliable, slimy, arrogant, dishonest, bent, crooked, unscrupulous, debauched, shady piece of refuse back as their leader??

Perhaps because they are also corrupt, bent, wayward, untrustworthy, dodgy, unreliable, slimy, arrogant, dishonest, bent, crooked, unscrupulous, debauched, shady pieces of refuse.

[Bangyai]

What one should ask for is impartiality of the law, and that unfortunately is not given by the investigating bodies. Otherwise we would also read about Sondhi's long involvement with Viroj, who was his financial adviser, and the very shady debt relief that was given to Sondhi by Krung Thai Bank.

This, to the sensible observer, stinks of purely politically motivated persecution.

What makes you think that Sondhi't loan was illegal?

In your logic if MUST be declared illegal in the name of "impartiality".

I'll repeat - Sondhi is still fighting his own bankrupcy case that is far from over and could see him lose control of Manager, I believe. Does that sound impartial to you?

JACT has not stated that the Sondhi loan was illegal ( and neither have I.)

The impartiality of the law and of the investigating bodies is what is being questioned. Surely all questionable loans made by the KT bank should be investigated ? Of those that are being investigated no mention has been made as to whether there have been any repayments. With the Sondhi loan there will never be any repayment as the debt was waved. Surely the flat loss of 1.6 billion baht also warrents being looked into ? Why was the debt not restructured to allow for possible future repayment ?

[ballpoint]

and still no magic # ....

There is no "magic number", and there is no definition of a "reign of terror". It is infantile semantics trying to score points for a cheap victory, sidelining the issues at discussion.

As it was mentioned - calling Thaksin's rule a "reign of terror" is a very distasteful exaggeration, and disrespects cynically the victims of states that can truly described as reign of terror - places such as Burma and North Korea...

There you go again, the self appointed arbiter of what is right and what is wrong. And this time the put down word is "infantile". What is so distasteful about calling Thaksin's reign one of "terror"? I'm sure all the muslims crushed in the truck reassured themselves with their dying breaths and said "well, we may have had it chaps, but at least we can take comfort that we weren't killed by a real tyrant like Stalin". And the innocent victims of the drug war, cowering behind their fridges, or bleeding to death from gunshot wounds? "Thank god I wasn't around under Pol Pot, now that was a real reign of terror!"

I find it extremely distasteful and disrespectful to belittle the thousands murdered at Thaksin's behest by effectively saying they don't count because they were only killed by an apprentice tyrant and not a master. See the difference here? I said "I find it...", not "It is..." It's called stating your opinion as such, rather than pretending your opinion is fact.

[Plus]

JACT has not stated that the Sondhi loan was illegal ( and neither have I.)

The impartiality of the law and of the investigating bodies is what is being questioned. Surely all questionable loans made by the KT bank should be investigated ? Of those that are being investigated no mention has been made as to whether there have been any repayments. With the Sondhi loan there will never be any repayment as the debt was waved. Surely the flat loss of 1.6 billion baht also warrents being looked into ? Why was the debt not restructured to allow for possible future repayment ?

Are you a lawyer? Thaksin, Samak and Somchai had plenty of time, power, and motives to order investigations into Sondhi's dealings with Viroj using any of the agencies at their disposal. If they didn't do anything about his loans then, why do you accuse NCCC of impartiality now?

That train has sailed.

[rixalex]

The problem is JD that when you get excited you indulge in such extravagant hyperbole that you totally devalue the meaning of the words you are using.

Bangyai, there were some on this forum who argued that the taking of the airport by the PAD was an act of terrorism. Did you consider this to be extravagant hyperbole? I'm somehow guessing not - but go on, surprise me.

[Journalist]

That he does not hate thaksin as singlemindedly as you appear to do?

Who, on this forum hates the Great Serpent the most?

eg:

- think about him a lot of the time. <snip>

- have scrapbooks containing cuttings and a life sized effigy

- wake up in the morning thinking of things to say about him, and wondering where he is today

I'd say the biggest serpent-haters are Plus, Sriracha John and Jdinasia, but its hard to choose between them for the gold medal.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Jai Dee
speculation about other posters' sexual-fantasies deleted

[ballpoint]

That he does not hate thaksin as singlemindedly as you appear to do?

Who, on this forum hates the Great Serpent the most?

eg:

- think about him a lot of the time. <snip>

- have scrapbooks containing cuttings and a life sized effigy

- wake up in the morning thinking of things to say about him, and wondering where he is today

I'd say the biggest serpent-haters are Plus, Sriracha John and Jdinasia, but its hard to choose between them for the gold medal.

Maybe you need to ask, who on this forum has reason to hate him the most? Those with family members or friends killed in one of his crackdowns? Those affected by his goverment's bird flu cover up, something almost forgotten here? Or those just fed up with his attempts to stir up trouble in a time the nation needs to be concentrating on the global economic crisis?

[Plus]

- think about him a lot of the time. <snip>

- have scrapbooks containing cuttings and a life sized effigy

- wake up in the morning thinking of things to say about him, and wondering where he is today

How did you come up with this stuff yourself?

[Samuian]

Usually coercion for loans is done by telephone, and the person asking for the help would just say that he was being an advocate for the case to approve the loan.

No, that is not how it usually works. Usually, there is money involved.

Explains why "Yaowapa" the fugitives sister is nicknamed: "Ms.30% cash on hand"!

or Ex-minister Sudarat: "Ms. 20%"...

9.9 Billion....

100 Million of taxes here...

the Themasek deal there...

and a couple a truck load's still pending...

It comes evident why he "loved Thailand" so much!

Edited February 20, 2009 by Samuian

[rixalex]

I'd say the biggest serpent-haters are Plus, Sriracha John and Jdinasia, but its hard to choose between them for the gold medal.

Bringing to attention the misdeeds, irregularities and illegalities of the snake's reign of terror (or perhaps you feel more comfortable with "mild terror"?) is easy work.

Defending the snake - now there's a thankless task. I think any award giving therefore should highlight the work of just such a sorry individual.

(of course the only problem will be identifying who's who, as they seem to have a habit of changing their names - my vote goes to sunrise07, or whatever he calls himself these days?)

[ballpoint]

I'd say the biggest serpent-haters are Plus, Sriracha John and Jdinasia, but its hard to choose between them for the gold medal.

Bringing to attention the misdeeds, irregularities and illegalities of the snake's reign of terror (or perhaps you feel more comfortable with "mild terror"?) is easy work.

Defending the snake - now there's a thankless task. I think any award giving therefore should highlight the work of just such a sorry individual.

(of course the only problem will be identifying who's who, as they seem to have a habit of changing their names - my vote goes to sunrise07, or whatever he calls himself these days?)

Not to mention the special award for defending him while at the same time vehemently denying they support him

[Jai Dee]

OK folks... enough of the flaming and speculation about other ThaiVisa members and back on topic please.

[sriracha john]

OK folks... enough of the flaming and speculation about other ThaiVisa members and back on topic please.

Thank you, Jai Dee... I will have to say that the below innovative flame was a first for Thaivisa as far as I know.

This post has been edited by Jai Dee: Today, 2009-02-20 14:41:26

Reason for edit: speculation about other posters' sexual-fantasies deleted

[hammered]

In the meantime we have a case involving a paper trail to Thaksin's son and a witness. From whatever perspective people come this is clearly a more definitve case which I am sure few would argue shouldnt see its day in court.

[Samuian]

In the meantime we have a case involving a paper trail to Thaksin's son and a witness. From whatever perspective people come this is clearly a more definitve case which I am sure few would argue shouldnt see its day in court.

Will the witness soon, be "on an unknown location"?

the way Kornthep Wiriya, aka "Shipping Moo" went?

This guy won't testify in any case anymore..... and that was ONLY about 100 Mill. tax evasion..

[hammered]

In the meantime we have a case involving a paper trail to Thaksin's son and a witness. From whatever perspective people come this is clearly a more definitve case which I am sure few would argue shouldnt see its day in court.

Will the witness soon, be "on an unknown location"?

the way Kornthep Wiriya, aka "Shipping Moo" went?

This guy won't testify in any case anymore..... and that was ONLY about 100 Mill. tax evasion..

Of course that is a concern.

However the renewed vigour with which the shipping moo case is being pursued with will probably serve as a warning. In the real world of politcs we can almost certainly surmise that the big players know why shipping moo was killed and by whom on whose oreders. There may even be evidence or winesses. Mind you if the KTB case does the job so to speak in changing the politcal landscape then there may be less desire to vgorously push the shipping moo case. Hypothetically within a real politik framework speaking.....

[Bangyai]

Are you a lawyer? Thaksin, Samak and Somchai had plenty of time, power, and motives to order investigations into Sondhi's dealings with Viroj using any of the agencies at their disposal. If they didn't do anything about his loans then, why do you accuse NCCC of impartiality now?

That train has sailed.

On March 12th 2008, The AEC moved to appoint an investigative panel to probe Thaksin, his wife , his son and Krung Thai Bank officials over loans extended to the Krisada Mahanakorn group .This was a little after Samak came to power.

It was the Bank of Thailand who filed the original complaint ( while Surayud was at the helm ) and this was carried over into the Samak administration. The ASC previously submitted the case to the Attorney General but the information was deemed inadequate. A commitee was set up on July 29th ( during Samaks turn ) to gather further evidence.

I imply impartiality by the NCCC because they are the ones planning to file the new charges.

[hammered]

Are you a lawyer? Thaksin, Samak and Somchai had plenty of time, power, and motives to order investigations into Sondhi's dealings with Viroj using any of the agencies at their disposal. If they didn't do anything about his loans then, why do you accuse NCCC of impartiality now?

That train has sailed.

On March 12th 2008, The AEC moved to appoint an investigative panel to probe Thaksin, his wife , his son and Krung Thai Bank officials over loans extended to the Krisada Mahanakorn group .This was a little after Samak came to power.

It was the Bank of Thailand who filed the original complaint ( while Surayud was at the helm ) and this was carried over into the Samak administration. The ASC previously submitted the case to the Attorney General but the information was deemed inadequate. A commitee was set up on July 29th ( during Samaks turn ) to gather further evidence.

I imply impartiality by the NCCC because they are the ones planning to file the new charges.

It was interesting that during the Samak/Somchai tenures the Thaksin cases with the weakest evidence seemed to make it through the AG to court while the ones with stronger evidence didnt. Well actuallythinking about it in the real world ofpolitcs that isnt surprising at all as it would have looked very suspicious if all had failed to make it....

[Bangyai]

The problem is JD that when you get excited you indulge in such extravagant hyperbole that you totally devalue the meaning of the words you are using.

Bangyai, there were some on this forum who argued that the taking of the airport by the PAD was an act of terrorism. Did you consider this to be extravagant hyperbole? I'm somehow guessing not - but go on, surprise me.

Actually, I wouldn't object to you using the term hyperbole . Where's the terror ? But I think you'll find I never used the term myself. I prefered the term ' holding the govournment to ransom ' which I felt was more accurate.

[jdinasia]

The problem is JD that when you get excited you indulge in such extravagant hyperbole that you totally devalue the meaning of the words you are using.

Bangyai, there were some on this forum who argued that the taking of the airport by the PAD was an act of terrorism. Did you consider this to be extravagant hyperbole? I'm somehow guessing not - but go on, surprise me.

Actually, I wouldn't object to you using the term hyperbole . Where's the terror ? But I think you'll find I never used the term myself. I prefered the term ' holding the govournment to ransom ' which I felt was more accurate.

Sadly you never gave us your answer for the magic number!

justanothercybertosser made a cute argument that there was not definition etc ... then went on to say Thaksin didn't fit the definition

You know Thaksin's regime qualifies as a reign of terror ... extra-judicial killings .. the people in the South etc etc

I am glad to see more cases brought up against Thaksin (but I am thinking he'll try and stay away from the country for years and years .... at least 10, rather than come back. After all can you see any court in Thailand offering bail when he has already skipped bail after a conviction?)

[justanothercybertosser]

There you go again, the self appointed arbiter of what is right and what is wrong. And this time the put down word is "infantile". What is so distasteful about calling Thaksin's reign one of "terror"? I'm sure all the muslims crushed in the truck reassured themselves with their dying breaths and said "well, we may have had it chaps, but at least we can take comfort that we weren't killed by a real tyrant like Stalin". And the innocent victims of the drug war, cowering behind their fridges, or bleeding to death from gunshot wounds? "Thank god I wasn't around under Pol Pot, now that was a real reign of terror!"

I find it extremely distasteful and disrespectful to belittle the thousands murdered at Thaksin's behest by effectively saying they don't count because they were only killed by an apprentice tyrant and not a master. See the difference here? I said "I find it...", not "It is..." It's called stating your opinion as such, rather than pretending your opinion is fact.

According to this 'logic' we will have to call the UK under Blair a "reign of terror" because one Brazilian man was mistakenly shot by overzealous police officers.

Throwing around with superlatives may be reassuring, but i puts this debate into a very low intellectual level. I would suggest spending some time in countries that are real "reigns of terror", maybe that would bring you people back down to reality.

At whose "behest" these victims of the drug war were shot is still obscure, and to find out what may have happened at the time might require the ability to think outside the box instead of just conveniently howling with the wolves.

[ballpoint]

There you go again, the self appointed arbiter of what is right and what is wrong. And this time the put down word is "infantile". What is so distasteful about calling Thaksin's reign one of "terror"? I'm sure all the muslims crushed in the truck reassured themselves with their dying breaths and said "well, we may have had it chaps, but at least we can take comfort that we weren't killed by a real tyrant like Stalin". And the innocent victims of the drug war, cowering behind their fridges, or bleeding to death from gunshot wounds? "Thank god I wasn't around under Pol Pot, now that was a real reign of terror!"

I find it extremely distasteful and disrespectful to belittle the thousands murdered at Thaksin's behest by effectively saying they don't count because they were only killed by an apprentice tyrant and not a master. See the difference here? I said "I find it...", not "It is..." It's called stating your opinion as such, rather than pretending your opinion is fact.

According to this 'logic' we will have to call the UK under Blair a "reign of terror" because one Brazilian man was mistakenly shot by overzealous police officers.

Throwing around with superlatives may be reassuring, but i puts this debate into a very low intellectual level. I would suggest spending some time in countries that are real "reigns of terror", maybe that would bring you people back down to reality.

At whose "behest" these victims of the drug war were shot is still obscure, and to find out what may have happened at the time might require the ability to think outside the box instead of just conveniently howling with the wolves.

From the IHT at the time...

"At the behest of Thaksin's government, local authorities hurriedly drew up blacklists of suspected drug dealers. Bangkok then gave provincial governors and police chiefs short deadlines to clear names from the list. The interior minister threatened retaliation against local officials who did not produce results, driving home the point by citing the way a former king dealt with unresponsive officials: "The king had them all beheaded.""

and ""In this war, drug dealers must die," Thaksin has said."

This is heading off topic, so that's all I'm going to say.

[sriracha john]

The Attorney-General will conclude an investigation over alleged corruption by fugitive premier Thaksin Shinawatra in a case related to a loan issued by the state-owned Krung Thai Bank.

Regarding the alleged corruption of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra in a case related to a 9.9 Billion Baht loan that Krung Thai Bank granted to affiliate companies of the Krisada Mahanakorn Group, Deputy Attorney-General Waiyawut Lortrakul revealed that the Attorney-General's Office will deliberate an investigation report on the case submitted by the National Anti-Corruption Commission for more than one week.

The prosecutor will then decide whether the agency will indict Thaksin and forward the lawsuit to the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders.

The Attorney-General's Office will reportedly arrange a meeting on February 23 to consider the investigation report.

The now-defunct Assets Examination Committee had resolved to file charges against three groups of individuals for the alleged bank fraud. They are politicians led by ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, bank lenders including Krung Thai Bank's executive board members and senior officials, and borrowers including R.K. Professional Company, Golden Technology Industrial Park, and Krisada Mahanakorn Public Company.

- TOC / 2009-02-20