Pondering

[track61]

Now that I have some time, I watch the Discovery channels quite a bit. I have been struck by the horrors we inflict on each other. From street gangs to governments to fanatics with any cause, it seems there is no end to our inhumanity. I understand all the "book" explanations like environment, brainwashing, peer pressure, nationalism, ad nauseam. As the root cause I think these are mostly BS. I've never been, and still aren't, much for religion, but I am beginning to think there is such a thing as just basic evil. Can't decide what form, if any, it takes or how to define or identify it or if it is an innate trait of man or we evolve into it.

What really dumbfounds me, however, is now that our communication/knowledge has reached the current levels, why, after all these centuries of witnessing it, we continue to tolerate evil behaviour. I suspect it is because we see it as too overwhelming to pursue a solution. Funny enough, for a short while after 9/11 I sensed that most of us realized we were all in this together and the world was going to run down at least some of the evil out there. Sadly, it wasn't long 'till we were back just trying not to see it up close.

I now have a headache so the pondering is over.

[samuibeachcomber]

such a thought can do your head in,take it easy.

i think the chinese call it ying and yang.

in this world everything has an opposite,good and bad,right and wrong,etc.hot and cold.

do we have a built in mechanism to know right from wrong?or do we need to be taught it?is our conscience already programmed at birth,or do we need to be taught to have one?as the world grows older do we continually inherit dna defects from our parents?can these be repaired?

maybe i need to chill out,good luck with your pondering!

[NewLifeNY]

Now that I have some time, I watch the Discovery channels quite a bit. I have been struck by the horrors we inflict on each other. From street gangs to governments to fanatics with any cause, it seems there is no end to our inhumanity. I understand all the "book" explanations like environment, brainwashing, peer pressure, nationalism, ad nauseam. As the root cause I think these are mostly BS. I've never been, and still aren't, much for religion, but I am beginning to think there is such a thing as just basic evil. Can't decide what form, if any, it takes or how to define or identify it or if it is an innate trait of man or we evolve into it.

What really dumbfounds me, however, is now that our communication/knowledge has reached the current levels, why, after all these centuries of witnessing it, we continue to tolerate evil behaviour. I suspect it is because we see it as too overwhelming to pursue a solution. Funny enough, for a short while after 9/11 I sensed that most of us realized we were all in this together and the world was going to run down at least some of the evil out there. Sadly, it wasn't long 'till we were back just trying not to see it up close.

I now have a headache so the pondering is over.

For every "evil/bad" story you hear, sad news story you watched, something crazy and unthinkable you witness..for every thing that you think is evil and happens everyday.....well, I believe that there are twice (if not more) wonderful and beautiful things that happen everyday around this crazy/wonderful world we live in....there is always two sides of the coin, maybe at this moment in time you see the glass half empty....take care.

[noahvail]

For every "evil/bad" story you hear, sad news story you watched, something crazy and unthinkable you witness..for every thing that you think is evil and happens everyday.....well, I believe that there are twice (if not more) wonderful and beautiful things that happen everyday around this crazy/wonderful world we live in....there is always two sides of the coin, maybe at this moment in time you see the glass half empty....take care.

Kinda like weighted averages, huh. But when Saddam Hussein's military took 30 seconds to destroy the thousands upon thousands of man-hours that it took to carve that Buddha into the wall of a cliff....I reckon one bad thing can easily negate thousands of good things, but it's rare to see one good thing negate thousands of evil things.

The glass is neither half-empty nore half-full, imnsho. I just reckon there's too much glass for the amount of liquid involved.

But for the original OP, back in the days when I was a therp, I wanted the DSM-V to come up with a new diagnosis: Evil Personality Disorder. Kinda like Antisocial Personality Disorder, only a lot worse. You can come up with your own examples.

/edited for the wrong word. stuff happens.

Edited February 19, 2009 by noahvail

[Yaaklenmai]

Now that I have some time, I watch the Discovery channels quite a bit. I have been struck by the horrors we inflict on each other. From street gangs to governments to fanatics with any cause, it seems there is no end to our inhumanity. I understand all the "book" explanations like environment, brainwashing, peer pressure, nationalism, ad nauseam. As the root cause I think these are mostly BS. I've never been, and still aren't, much for religion, but I am beginning to think there is such a thing as just basic evil. Can't decide what form, if any, it takes or how to define or identify it or if it is an innate trait of man or we evolve into it.

What really dumbfounds me, however, is now that our communication/knowledge has reached the current levels, why, after all these centuries of witnessing it, we continue to tolerate evil behaviour. I suspect it is because we see it as too overwhelming to pursue a solution. Funny enough, for a short while after 9/11 I sensed that most of us realized we were all in this together and the world was going to run down at least some of the evil out there. Sadly, it wasn't long 'till we were back just trying not to see it up close.

I now have a headache so the pondering is over.

Are you for real?

[teletiger]

I thought it was the Taleban who destroyed the Buddha statues.

Regards

[Scott]

Take a look at the thread "Jonathan is with me.." Some bad stories do have a happy ending.

[Moothon]

It's all about perception. What seems evil to you might seem needed by another. What you may call a terrorist, their army may call special forces, and visa versa. Since we are all different, some more than others, it will never end, because we all have different perceptions. Self righteous is as self righteous does.....

Pretty simple really.......

[girlx]

hmm i disagree- i think there are pretty universal definitions of "good" and "evil" for the majority of people.

[girlx]

oops double post

Edited February 19, 2009 by girlx

[RakJungTorlae]

It's all about perception. What seems evil to you might seem needed by another. What you may call a terrorist, their army may call special forces, and visa versa. Since we are all different, some more than others, it will never end, because we all have different perceptions. Self righteous is as self righteous does.....

Pretty simple really.......

You are talking about the opposite sides of war. Agreed on the war against terror. But a war against Kim jong ii against the free world? Nar he’s pure evil or a stupid moron.

Girlx- yeah there are nut jobs out there like Charles mansion and other devil worshipers also who sacrifice flesh.( see on the discovery channel) out there.

Yeah the Chinese where pretty right about the yin/yang but yin has 3 letters and yang has 4.

Bizarre.

[Tigs]

I thought it was the Taleban who destroyed the Buddha statues.

Regards

Absolutely correct. Funny how people blamed the Iraqis for all sorts of things they were not involved with and hey look what happened!

[sassienie]

I think you`re feeling down and thinking too much.

Dr Sassienie says; Grab a few thousand baht, go into the town, get pissed, get a pooying takeaway and pack all your troubles in your old kit bag and smile, smile, smile.

If you are in Chiang Mai, pm me and I`ll meet you in town.

[GuestHouse]

Many religions and philosphies hold the view that evil is a force, distinct from individuals - No that an individual is evil, but that an individual is posessed by evil.

How that occurs, or whyt it is so, is debatable, but I personally do believe there is such at thing as evil.

[yabaaaa]

There is no good or bad right or wrong all figments of the human brain. Anyway how is this Thai related?

Guesthouse only u an me here go to bed zzzzzzzz

Edited February 19, 2009 by yabaaaa

[teacup]

The world has always been like this and will always be like this. The only difference now is 24 hour news channels along with the Internet. You hear about everything as and when it happens. This gives the impression that the world has gotten worse.

Would you consider WWI, WWII, the Korean War and the Vietnam War as less violent?

If there are more crimes it's because there are more people.

Look at hard facts before you make a judgment based on impression. When our awareness has hugely increased, as has our fear. That's about it.

And the fact is….over the decade the number of population has grown exponentially, you're bound to find a greater diversity of people and actions

Lastly,…. not until the parents teach the values morals and respect to our children and take responsibility on a personal level,

... sadly nothing will ever change

[slapout]

I see good things everyday here in Chiang Mai, have not seen any, what I consider evil lately. Read about the evil in newspapers etc, but guess that is what sells. I would hope there are millions of people around the world who experience life as I have and do. Mankind seems to define evil in a changing light as we progress through the ages. I doubt that warfare has ever been considered evil by the majority and even the participants, the side effects and aftermath, yes. As guesthouse noted is the individual evil or posessed by evil? Its kind of a mute debate as the result is the same to observers and the victims.

[Briggsy]

Kinda like weighted averages, huh. But when Saddam Hussein's military took 30 seconds to destroy the thousands upon thousands of man-hours that it took to carve that Buddha into the wall of a cliff....I reckon one bad thing can easily negate thousands of good things, but it's rare to see one good thing negate thousands of evil things.

T

Dude, you have seriously been watching too much Fox News. Saddam Hussein was completely against religious extremism as it could have threatened his regime.

The Buddha cliff face statue was destroyed by the Taleban.

You wouldn't be related to George W Bush, would ya?

[Pierrot]

Yeah the Chinese where pretty right about the yin/yang but yin has 3 letters and yang has 4.

Bizarre.

They are Chinese words, therefore I don't think the english spelling is really relevant.

阴 阳 look better, isn't it ?

PS : Don't ask me more, I don't write Chinese, I just asked my assistant to translate to see how it looks in Chinese

[altman]

interesting subject and one i have have also been thinking about.

i do not know if evil exists, (i think that it does), but i do know that until we can define what is right and wrong we will have a difficult time recognizing it.

many people use phrases such as 'do the right thing', 'the difference between right and wrong', but how many people can actually sit down now at their computer and write out their own personal definition of what is right and what is wrong? without an agreed on definition everything else is subjective and meaningless to a universal discussion.

my definition, which may not be correct but is one that comforts me when i have to make difficult choices, is:

a thing is right which does the greatest good to the largest number while doing the least harm to the fewest.

having formed a definition we can then make choices about our own particular behavior based on that definition. and after a consensus of behavior has been formed it may be possible to look back on evil as a thing of the past.

but first we need to be able to actually agree on a definition of 'right' and 'wrong' so that we can all agree that this thing is good and that thing is bad. until then we will continue to repeat the mistakes of the past and perpetuate evil.

and as a note on the yin yan of it all. i think every decision or choice can ultimately be broken down to a choice of one thing or another. when we start to compromise our basic belief in right and wrong then we enter into a grey area where morals, values, judgments, and ethics soon become mired in new definitions of what is fundamentally right and fundamentally wrong.

so, once we have our definition and reduce our choices to those which are either right or wrong, we can start to make a new world based on reason, compassion, and humanity. leaving the world of fear, greed, and aggression behind.

[NewLifeNY]

I thought it was the Taleban who destroyed the Buddha statues.

Regards

It was...duh!

[NewLifeNY]

It's all about perception. What seems evil to you might seem needed by another. What you may call a terrorist, their army may call special forces, and visa versa. Since we are all different, some more than others, it will never end, because we all have different perceptions. Self righteous is as self righteous does.....

Pretty simple really.......

You are talking about the opposite sides of war. Agreed on the war against terror. But a war against Kim jong ii against the free world? Nar he's pure evil or a stupid moron.

Girlx- yeah there are nut jobs out there like Charles mansion and other devil worshipers also who sacrifice flesh.( see on the discovery channel) out there.

Yeah the Chinese where pretty right about the yin/yang but yin has 3 letters and yang has 4.

Bizarre.

I thought it was Charles MANSON...I didnt know he lived in a MANSION.....

[track61]

"i do not know if evil exists, (i think that it does), but i do know that until we can define what is right and wrong we will have a difficult time recognizing it."

I see where you are coming from, however I think there is a very large difference between wrong and evil.

But, believing perception of these concepts is in play seems absolute BS to me. I mean, was Hitler, Pol Pot, Jim Jones, etc. etc. wrong, evil, or defined by individual perceptions?

How about flying passenger planes into buldings? Where does that line up.

The tone of this thread does shed a little light on our unwillingness to confront "evil" though.

[JoeThePoster]

I watch the Discovery channels quite a bit. I have been struck by the horrors we inflict on each other.

Whatever you do, don't switch to Cartoon Network (or Animax), absolutely shocking - the horrors Jerry inflicts on Tom, for example.

[Pierrot]

"i do not know if evil exists, (i think that it does), but i do know that until we can define what is right and wrong we will have a difficult time recognizing it."

I see where you are coming from, however I think there is a very large difference between wrong and evil.

But, believing perception of these concepts is in play seems absolute BS to me. I mean, was Hitler, Pol Pot, Jim Jones, etc. etc. wrong, evil, or defined by individual perceptions?

How about flying passenger planes into buldings? Where does that line up.

The tone of this thread does shed a little light on our unwillingness to confront "evil" though.

What about Hiroshima ? On the one hand the bomb stopped the war, on the other hand ....

I chose not to post pictures of the victims, but people interested can google the subject, it really makes you think.

Edited February 20, 2009 by Pierrot

[track61]

Maybe Hiroshima is a perfect example of "the lesser of two evils"????????

[slapout]

Reckon it depends on who is asked and who is responding (if this were put in question form)