Prime Minister Worries About Thailand Image

[Plus]

Reds are not majority of Thais by any stretch.

[animatic]

Thaksin, and hence the red shirts, fear Kasit as he has extensive connections overseas due to his ambassador roles, plus he is a known enemy of Thaksin; he could well be thinking of cancelling Thaksin's passport soon.

I am sure this figures partly in the equation.

And there is no chance that Red Shirts hold a majority in the country.

Even if 300k show up next rally, that is no majority of 65 million.

They are just another noisy faction fighting for table scraps

and Thaksin's big payday.

[Plus]

Just read about latest Abac poll, 73% want PTP to stay in opposition for a while. Even with possible margin errors it's impossible to dismiss.

Not if you are in love with Thaksin, though.

[Thai at Heart]

Just read about latest Abac poll, 73% want PTP to stay in opposition for a while. Even with possible margin errors it's impossible to dismiss.

Not if you are in love with Thaksin, though.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...inister-country

poll: 64% want govt to administer country

OF BANGKOKIANS

The majority of people living in Bangkok would like the Abhisit Vejjajiva government to continue to administer the country, according to a university poll.

The survey, conducted from Saturday to Monday, assessed opinions of 1,137 people who are over 18 years of age living in Bangkok.

Now this is definitely a case of statistics being used to serve a purpose.

I am not sure that 65% with only a survey in Bangkok could suggest that it is any way representative of how the country feels at all. Don't the democrats get a higher polling than that in elections in Bangkok? I would take that to mean that so far people of Bangkok aren't very enamoured with them at all.

Edited - To insert link

Edited March 24, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Oberkommando]

Auto production down over 50% year on year for February.

Estimates of the economy shrinking some 3% this year, and those are optimistic.

Additionally, according to the article in the Post, unemployment could hit 2 million.

This bad news is strangely conspicuous by it's absence on the News section of this forum though.

The current government will eventually fall victim to the failing economy and their own hubris.

[Old Man River]

Auto production down over 50% year on year for February.

Estimates of the economy shrinking some 3% this year, and those are optimistic.

Additionally, according to the article in the Post, unemployment could hit 2 million.

This bad news is strangely conspicuous by it's absence on the News section of this forum though.

The current government will eventually fall victim to the failing economy and their own hubris.

No, actually, the current government will fall victim to its being a coalition government as is the case with all coalition governments in Thailand. The economy will be the way it is presented to the clueless, but this is a global recession/depression and has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand specific. In Thailand, at the end of the day, it is all about power and money politics.

[Oberkommando]

Auto production down over 50% year on year for February.

Estimates of the economy shrinking some 3% this year, and those are optimistic.

Additionally, according to the article in the Post, unemployment could hit 2 million.

This bad news is strangely conspicuous by it's absence on the News section of this forum though.

The current government will eventually fall victim to the failing economy and their own hubris.

No, actually, the current government will fall victim to its being a coalition government as is the case with all coalition governments in Thailand. The economy will be the way it is presented to the clueless, but this is a global recession/depression and has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand specific. In Thailand, at the end of the day, it is all about power and money politics.

Easy to blame the global situation for Thailand's woes when anticipatory damage limitation could have been applied, instead Thailand shot itself in the foot by having a military coup when the economy was doing fairly well.

Additionally, airport shutdowns, prolonged political unrest and protest, human rights abuses and border tensions with neighbours have all contributed negatively to Thailand's economy and reputation, in tandem with the worsening global situation, and certainly not helping matters.

Thailand has been a basket case since the coup in 2006 with no direction, a poorly performing economy, a greedy elite who refuse to enfranchise the rural masses and now a confusing and contradictory economic policy under a government that seems rudderless, inept and out of its depth, with the focus on an eloquent and educated young man in order to fool the politically naive.

[animatic]

And more than enough people willing to rub salt in the wounds, and divide the country further,

for partisan reasons, rather than contribute to the solutions needed.

[hammered]

Auto production down over 50% year on year for February.

Estimates of the economy shrinking some 3% this year, and those are optimistic.

Additionally, according to the article in the Post, unemployment could hit 2 million.

This bad news is strangely conspicuous by it's absence on the News section of this forum though.

The current government will eventually fall victim to the failing economy and their own hubris.

No, actually, the current government will fall victim to its being a coalition government as is the case with all coalition governments in Thailand. The economy will be the way it is presented to the clueless, but this is a global recession/depression and has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand specific. In Thailand, at the end of the day, it is all about power and money politics.

Easy to blame the global situation for Thailand's woes when anticipatory damage limitation could have been applied, instead Thailand shot itself in the foot by having a military coup when the economy was doing fairly well.

Additionally, airport shutdowns, prolonged political unrest and protest, human rights abuses and border tensions with neighbours have all contributed negatively to Thailand's economy and reputation, in tandem with the worsening global situation, and certainly not helping matters.

Thailand has been a basket case since the coup in 2006 with no direction, a poorly performing economy, a greedy elite who refuse to enfranchise the rural masses and now a confusing and contradictory economic policy under a government that seems rudderless, inept and out of its depth, with the focus on an eloquent and educated young man in order to fool the politically naive.

In actuality the economy had already started going south before the coup (2005) according to Economist data and then pretty much stayed around that level until the world economy went down.

[Plus]

Thaiatheart, I read about ABAC poll result mentioned in another article, you gave us Dusit poll results, and the questions are different.

If you go with the poll you quoted here, only 17.3% want a house dissolution and new elections, the main item on Red agenda. See how little support it gets?

All other people show varying degrees of support for the government, support for the opposition is expressed through this number - 17.3%.

Don't despair, though, 17% means majority in Koospeak.

Thailand shot itself in the foot by having a military coup when the economy was doing fairly well.

No, Thailand lived without the proper government, parliament or the Senate for most of 2006.

It shot itself in the foot when Thaksin refused to listen to the public demands, it was all downhill since.

Or it can be argued that Thailand shot itself in the foot when they elected him against all advise, because the outcome was predictable. Greedy capitalist gets the power - how else was it going to end?

[Steve2UK]

Thaiatheart, I read about ABAC poll result mentioned in another article, you gave us Dusit poll results, and the questions are different.

If you go with the poll you quoted here, only 17.3% want a house dissolution and new elections, the main item on Red agenda. See how little support it gets?

All other people show varying degrees of support for the government, support for the opposition is expressed through this number - 17.3%.

Don't despair, though, 17% means majority in Koospeak.

Thailand shot itself in the foot by having a military coup when the economy was doing fairly well.

No, Thailand lived without the proper government, parliament or the Senate for most of 2006.

It shot itself in the foot when Thaksin refused to listen to the public demands, it was all downhill since.

Or it can be argued that Thailand shot itself in the foot when they elected him against all advise, because the outcome was predictable. Greedy capitalist gets the power - how else was it going to end?

Polls are just polls - and any attempt to interpret them clearly depends on knowing the questions asked and the demographic polled (not least to make it clear that, in one, only Bangkokians were polled).

It would be helpful - not to mention obvious common sense - if all people posting references to poll results included a link to where the poll details (or at least a report based on them) can be found.......... and not just say "I read about x where it said y" to cherry-pick the bit(s) they like for their agenda.

[catmac]

And more than enough people willing to rub salt in the wounds, and divide the country further,

for partisan reasons, rather than contribute to the solutions needed.

Strange to see someone who applauded PAD and the military whilst they dismembered the elected government and sowed division and chaos throughout the land, now demanding that everyone should be quiet for the sake of Thailand!

Remember the old saying "As you sow, so shall you reap"!

[Oberkommando]

In actuality the economy had already started going south before the coup (2005) according to Economist data and then pretty much stayed around that level until the world economy went down.

The Thai economy grew by 4.5% in 2005, and was affected by rising oil prices and the Tsunami.

[animatic]

And more than enough people willing to rub salt in the wounds, and divide the country further,

for partisan reasons, rather than contribute to the solutions needed.

Strange to see someone who applauded PAD and the military whilst they dismembered the elected government and sowed division and chaos throughout the land, now demanding that everyone should be quiet for the sake of Thailand!

Remember the old saying "As you sow, so shall you reap"!

Corrupt and ineffectual, vs competent and functional.

Which to replace... ooh tough call.

NOT.

Replace the one on the way out for it's own malfeasances in office,

and leave working the one that is actually functional.

People see right thought your ideological biases,

and that they don't reflect problems to be dealt with on the ground in real time.

I woulds rather look towards actively saving the future

than dwell myopically in your ineffectively governed past.

[kurtgruen]

When it comes to the importance of Thailand to the World Community, I would just like to remind everyone of the importance of Vietnam to the US, during the Vietnam War. The US, during that time, supported any puppet dictator, good, bad, effective, ineffective, in South Vietnam.

The West will continue to do so in "Strategically located areas" such as Thailand. Do they care who is in power....probably not, as long as their interests are protected. Do they care what people in Thailand want....not likely. The West wants a Western friendly government. Beyond that, I don't think that too many people care about what happens in Thailand. (Most people don't even know where Thailand is, or think that Thailand and Taiwan are the same).

So this paranoia about how the World views a few people in red shirts, in a Country they know nothing about and which they really don't care about, to me is just a bunch of hot air.

Yes, businessmen, tourists and Expats in Thailand are concerned...yes, some Thai People are concerned, but no, the World will not remember this 5 year from now...most people, who watch the news in the US or Canada, won't even remember it a week from now.

After all, Thailand is a very small Country, with not much international importance, aside from it's startegic location. Without these Red or Yellow shirt demonstrations, most people in the World would only know it by name.

Sad to say, but what put Thailand on the map was the Vietnam War the Tsunami and the PAD protests.

Before my first trip to Thailand in 2000, I had no idea, where exactly it was located, never heard of Thaskin or any other Thai Politician before and had no idea about anything Thai, except for hearing the words "Thai Sticks"a lot, in Canada, when I was a teenager ;-) I suppose I should feel bad about that, but then again, most Thai people I talked to, have no idea where Canada is, don't know the Capital of Canada, don't know where any of the Countries in Europe are located and so-on.

I'm really not that important...and neither is Thailand. In a few years, most people won't even remember the protests here. Thaksin's name will be forgotten, farmers will still be farmers and greedy people will most likely still be greedy. With luck, there will be a little bit less corruption and a little more transparancy, as time goes on.

Personally, I like the new Prime Minister, but to each his own. I don't have a crystal ball and cannot see the future, but I can look at the past and see that Thaskin was not an honest man. Good riddance, I say ;-)

As I said during the Pad Protest in the past....hope this all ends peacefully and hope that nobody gets hurt.

Cheers

[samgrowth]

Thaksin, and hence the red shirts, fear Kasit as he has extensive connections overseas due to his ambassador roles, plus he is a known enemy of Thaksin; he could well be thinking of cancelling Thaksin's passport soon.

I am sure this figures partly in the equation.

And there is no chance that Red Shirts hold a majority in the country.

Even if 300k show up next rally, that is no majority of 65 million.

They are just another noisy faction fighting for table scraps

and Thaksin's big payday.

You are right. Even if you have 30 million red shirt jaming the Govt house, it is still not a majority (out of 65 million total population). However, it will only take 3,000 red-shirt (or any color for that matter) to shut down the airport again. Now, let's see who is talking.

[dreidcs2]

Other then Political worries, what about the long gone smiles from the land of the smiles?

Every time i return to Thailand, i can see a lower numbers of smiles, and i have also noticed some Thai people dislikes of farangs...what happened with this beautiful place?

[kurtgruen]

It seems that there isn't too much interest in these demonstrations anymore. The Thai People I have talked to, over the past week, pretty much all said that they want all these demonstrations to end and that they are tired of all this red shirt - yellow shirt stuff. Nobody seems to think that anything will or has changed. They all believe that the Government will be corrupt and self serving, no matter who is in power. A few of them said, that they are getting really tired of all the protesting. Some mentioned people getting paid to go from Chiang Dao to Chiang Mai, to attend the rally at 700 year stadium a few days ago. Some went, to get the money, but nobody I know went to Bangkok afterwards.

I would think that this protest, like all the other red shirt protests, will fizzle out within a few days. Thaksin doesn't have the military behind him and he doesn't have the support of the people anymore, now that the people see the Democrats handing out money and continuing populist programs. People will support those who will give them freebees ;-)

I think foreigners talk about this issue a lot more than Thai People. Nothing will change for the poor either way...the rich will continue to be corrupt and get richer on the back of the poor and the poor will stay poor, oppressed by loan sharks (20% interest per month) and kept at a low level of real knowledge, by keeping the education level in public schools low.

The poor do seem to like that they still have the 30 Baht Program, that they are getting free Uniforms for their children (which is always a big expense at the beginning of the school year) and I have heard some positive comments about the added Pension money. Some where concerned that the 2000 Baht handout, was only for people with regular jobs, who are already in the tax system, therefore not giving most of the poor any of it. Overall though, people seem to like "Mark"

I think the most important thought on most peoples minds right now, is the King's health and well being. Everybody loves the king and wants him to get well. Other issues don't seem to be as important to the poor Thai People I know.

Long live the King

[sbk]

Lets not bring the Royal family into a political discussion please. It is not appropriate and is against forum rules. Regardless of intent.

[hammered]

Kurtgruen thanks for a report from Chaing Dao. My wife's mostly lower Northern based family also harbour similar thought to what you report. Mostly apolitical and want to get on with life. Interesting to hear what normal apolitcal Thai people think.

[bungy007]

Other then Political worries, what about the long gone smiles from the land of the smiles?

Every time i return to Thailand, i can see a lower numbers of smiles, and i have also noticed some Thai people dislikes of farangs...what happened with this beautiful place?

'Mass consumerism'! Up until the 90s Thais generally led a modest life and governed by the lovely traditions of their culture which have been forged over centuries. Then came the jobs from the west as our companies sold out our livelyhoods in the west to replace us with cheaper labour to boost their profit margins. From then on it was all downhill as word spread around the realm and more and more Thais got stuck into 'aquistions' and neglected their traditions.

Now, its all slipping away! Tourism, which was spurred by the backpackers, was snubbed in favour of wooing the middle classes. These are now facing their own challenges at home as well as educated enough to see the disparity between civil rights and consumer protection at home and in Thailand. The constant boat sinkings, drownings, murders, fires, false arrests, night life crackdowns, which have become a feature of Thailand have turned off those with money to spend. A well earned holiday should be a pleasure and not a constriction/threat.

The FBA has also produced a massive negative effect in the business world as companies are looking to move to vietnam etc to try to operate on a semblance of a level playing field. Of course, this means massive job losses in Thailand and consqently a big good-bye to shopping in the mall, eating fast food, the latest nokia and driving a merc/bmw or a japanese car/pickup/motorbike/van (all of which Thais have come to define themselves by).

Furthermore, the visa laws have tightened up considerably, people are really unsure of their ability to satisfy the immigration requirements which are changed ad nausem on nothing more than a whim. As a consequence, it creates doubt in the real estate market and toursits/expats switch to renting rather than purchasing (denying the country of millions and millions of baht from outside its borders). We can't even own a house, for goodness sakes!

There is more but I think you get the gist.

[Plus]

People I know don't give a fuc_k one way or another anymore.

I've even seen two drunken men discover that they belong to different color shirts. Nothing happened. They just don't talk about it.

Red folks I know feel sympathetic, and one even went to the rally yesterday, but it's nothing like frenzy of the past year, pre-conviciton Thaksin, when they were full of hope and couldn't stop talking about it.

Yellow shirts seem to be genuinely bored and indifferent.

Caught a glimpse of goings on at the Govt house on TV. Nothing much, crowds are really thin.

It won't last beyond Monday.

[clausewitz]

Furthermore, the visa laws have tightened up considerably, . As a consequence, it creates doubt in the real estate market and toursits/expats switch to renting rather than purchasing (denying the country of millions and millions of baht from outside its borders). We can't even own a house, for goodness sakes!

There is more but I think you get the gist.

Your conclusion seems based on a false premise. In 1999 the government drastically softened the real-estate law. Prior to that if a foreigner married a Thai woman she lost the rights to own land. Now she is allowed to own any type of real-estate.

[hammered]

Thanong in his Nation blog talks of the situation being delicate and division in the military:

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/thanong/2009/03/27/entry-2

Could a march on Prem's house pressage a military move and if so by who? Worrying but the rumours are around. Hopefully they wont come to anything as this would be the last thing the country needs.

[kurtgruen]

We can't even own a house, for goodness sakes!

Yes we can, but maybe your Thai princess has told you otherwise ;-)

[animatic]

You can own a building,

just not the land it sits on.