Teak

[tatom]

Well, Ive grown my teak trees and now I want to build with them. Im going to use them as posts for a patio roof. They will sit in the concrete slab.

How do I prepare them? Should I dry them first, should they be treated with something to protect them from rot and insects? Should I remove the bark?

I posted this question on the do-it-yourself section, but got no replys.

[chiang mai]

Well, Ive grown my teak trees and now I want to build with them. Im going to use them as posts for a patio roof. They will sit in the concrete slab.

How do I prepare them? Should I dry them first, should they be treated with something to protect them from rot and insects? Should I remove the bark?

I posted this question on the do-it-yourself section, but got no replys.

Teak contains a natural oil that protects the wood from insects and from rotting, for this reason teak wood should not be dried.

[Sel]

How old are they? Diameter?

I would air dry them for a month or more depending on there size. The old school method for drying in Thailand is to remove the outer sapwood while the tree is still standing and leave for 3 years before cutting.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Sel

[Sel]

Teak contains a natural oil that protects the wood from insects and from rotting, for this reason teak wood should not be dried

The above quote is not true

Edited March 6, 2009 by Sel

[jubby]

Teak contains a natural oil that protects the wood from insects and from rotting, for this reason teak wood should not be dried

The above quote is not true

There's still water in them as well as that Oil. I'd remove the bark and store them for atleast a year. I had one that appeared to go dormant or die, I left it standing for a year in the hope that it would start showing leaves again. I then cut it down and left it for about 6 months.

when the guy cut it into planks it looked about right. I'm certainly no expert though.

[chiang mai]

Teak contains a natural oil that protects the wood from insects and from rotting, for this reason teak wood should not be dried

The above quote is not true

Ok, I'm willing to learn but you have to help a little bit also! Please tell us what is true in respect of teak wood, it's natural oils and the need for drying.

BTW, when I think of drying wood I think of kiln drying or long term exposure to sun/heat over a period of years. The process of allowing the sap to dry out is I believe a much shorter term process.

Edited March 6, 2009 by chiang mai

[Maizefarmer]

There are as many misconceptions about teak as there are varities of teak.

I have a "wild" teak log on the farm (log not tree) - belongs to the old man (long story how he got it) - it measures just under 5' diameter at one end and just under 4' at the other end.

We cut a 6" thick section off one end a few years ago, and from that we cut 5" x 5" squares - across the diameter. Everyone of those squares, from the outermost squares, through the the centre was at least 2x heavier than a piece of 5" x 5" plantation teak of the same thickness, cut from a pole purchased from a dealer - in fact the centre sections were something like 3 or 4 times the mass!

This is the sort of teak that if left to cure & dry out for 6 - 10years after cutting down, will then last a lifetime plus a few. Plantation teak? - its no better than any other Asian plantation hardwood - in fact a can think of at least 2 other plantation grown Asian hardwoods that I would prefer to use before teak - only because I know they have been left to grow for so much longer than the teak would have been left to grow - and cost a lot less than teak.

[slapout]

well Chiang mai did you get the answer you needed? As you probably can see, many of the questions get replies that waltz around simply because the person lacks hands on experience. Teak is and can be dried prior to cutting the tree (griddle), cut and air dried(it will split somewhat) cut and submerged in water, cut and buried in soil, kiln dried, and there are probably more suggestions which will be new to all of us. I have never personally cut and dried any type of teak, but have purchased furniture made from dried teak, shipped to dry climate and it did not split, warp, etc I have purchased teak to use in building a house which after 12 years has not split, etc There are people who do have contact and access to this type of info here in northern Thailand and they can most likely give you some good solid advice.

[GungaDin]

There are as many misconceptions about teak as there are varities of teak.

in fact I can think of at least 2 other plantation grown Asian hardwoods that I would prefer to use before teak - only because I know they have been left to grow for so much longer than the teak would have been left to grow - and cost a lot less than teak.

What are their names?

Thanks.

[chiang mai]

well Chiang mai did you get the answer you needed? As you probably can see, many of the questions get replies that waltz around simply because the person lacks hands on experience. Teak is and can be dried prior to cutting the tree (griddle), cut and air dried(it will split somewhat) cut and submerged in water, cut and buried in soil, kiln dried, and there are probably more suggestions which will be new to all of us. I have never personally cut and dried any type of teak, but have purchased furniture made from dried teak, shipped to dry climate and it did not split, warp, etc I have purchased teak to use in building a house which after 12 years has not split, etc There are people who do have contact and access to this type of info here in northern Thailand and they can most likely give you some good solid advice.

It wasn't actually me that was looking for answers on this although I admit to being somewhat curious as the thread developed - I simply responded to the OP because nobody else had provided any clues to the OP's question so I am happy to have helped.

For my part I know very little about teak other than the bits and pieces I have accumulated over time. The most entertaining story I ever heard concerning teak wood was on the Queen Mary when it was being used as a hotel in San Pedro (?) LA. My chum and I took the tour back in the '70's just to see the boat and being British it naturally held much historical and nostalgic interest. At one point we emerged onto one of the decks where a young American college kid was leading a tour group, explaining the various attributes of the ship. As we walked past he started to explain that the decks of the Queen Mary are made of teak wood and this is because teak wood absorbs water so well - in fact he meant to state that teak wood is very dense and thus repels water well. We laughed at the thought of a giant sponge floating in the ocean.

[jubby]

The log I had was from my garden, probably about 15 years old , so still young, not strictly Plantation teak, but I'm sure its that sort of variety. I think the locals call it Golden Teak if that helps. It didn't crack and was as straight as a die and the timber remains so. probably the fact it was left to dry a bit standing because I wasn't sure it was dead helped. It would have made a nice post in my opinion. The grain was definately a bit tighter and more profound than the teak Table (Young Plantation Teak) I'm sat at now.

I would like to know what the other Asian Hardwoods Maizefarmer recommends as I have some space

[somo]

I have some experience in drying out planks of hardwood. I bought the planks for floorboards and they were from a freshly cut tree. I left them for 4 months to dry out and they are fine. In that time they shrank by about 10% from their original size.

As a post they would be thicker so you ma have to leave them for maybe a year or more toavoid shrinkage.

[fruity]

I have some experience in drying out planks of hardwood. I bought the planks for floorboards and they were from a freshly cut tree. I left them for 4 months to dry out and they are fine. In that time they shrank by about 10% from their original size.

As a post they would be thicker so you ma have to leave them for maybe a year or more toavoid shrinkage.

Submerge in pool of water for three months. Nothing else any good!

[Maizefarmer]

Well, Ive grown my teak trees and now I want to build with them. Im going to use them as posts for a patio roof. They will sit in the concrete slab.

How do I prepare them? Should I dry them first, should they be treated with something to protect them from rot and insects? Should I remove the bark?

I posted this question on the do-it-yourself section, but got no replys.

Diameter of these trees/logs? - there is so much variableness in any teak less than 20years old or so that, with out seeing it it is near to impossible to comment accurately on how you should now treat it and look after it: - things like the soil it was grown in, was fertiliser used when growing, was it watered on a regular basis in the first five years or so of growth - all things that can make a world of differance to the teak you now have on hand. i.e. it could be decent quality teak it could be poor quality teak - but start off with density/mass.

Decent teak is going to come in at 600kg plus per cubic meter (the teak log I was talking about in my earlier posting is over 800kg p/cubic meter)

Take a section with known length and known diameter and bark removed (with length and diameter you can calculate the volume) - weigh it. If it works out to less than 600kg per cubic meter I'd go get some old hardwood from a timber yard - as without good drying out you can be sure its going to move quite a bit with a roof load on it at that density. Less than 600, I don't think it has the density to last. Thats your starting point.

... and then again, there are 2 things that none of us in our wise comments have asked you which are important: whats the patio roof weight and what is the proposed cross section of the teak you intend to use to support it - without which, quality of the teak, its density, cured/uncured blah blah, blah blah ... is a moot point.

Easy to come back with an argument supporting its use as it is to say no, don't use it. Personally, if its only a patio upright its been used for, I dont think its going to make much differance one way or the other - so long as the teak cross section is sufficient for the weight of the roof its having to support (whats that - around 4" x 4" or, or should it be 6" x 6" ....., or should it be ????).

No one can say with any accuracy now can they - just too many issues we don't know about. The OP's question was really no more than question about how to treat teak - the patio roof part just served to complicate the matter!

[tatom]

Thanks for all the replys.

My trees are about 8 inches in diamiter. I didnt know if I should remove the bark or not or treat with an insecticide.

The roof is not heavy. After reading all the replys, Im a bit concerned if the posts will shrink or twist. I just wanted to use the teak because its free and Im poor.

Thanks, Tom the OP

[GungaDin]

There are as many misconceptions about teak as there are varities of teak.

in fact I can think of at least 2 other plantation grown Asian hardwoods that I would prefer to use before teak - only because I know they have been left to grow for so much longer than the teak would have been left to grow - and cost a lot less than teak.

What are their names?

Thanks.

BUMP......... AGAIN !

[chiang mai]

There are as many misconceptions about teak as there are varities of teak.

in fact I can think of at least 2 other plantation grown Asian hardwoods that I would prefer to use before teak - only because I know they have been left to grow for so much longer than the teak would have been left to grow - and cost a lot less than teak.

What are their names?

Thanks.

BUMP......... AGAIN !

Hardwood I and hardwood II, Ok?

[Maizefarmer]

Sorry .... sorry ....

1) Merbau - completly termite reistant (lovely colour) - have used it on my floors.

2) Apitong - all the trucks you see with wooden decks - its Apitong (stays straight if it gets wet).

..... and a 3rd one, so long as you know what you are looking for as there are several types of this timber: Meranti - the dark red type.

[GungaDin]

Thanks MF.

Some botanical names and comments here if anyone is interested.

[jubby]

Thanks again Mazefarmer and Gunga Din.

Just need to find a source of Saplings.

[GungaDin]

Your best source should be the gov't agencies, Forestry etc.

Keep us updated.

[dotcom]

As an aside. I bought a lovely bedside table at a furniture show. Turns out it was made of "young teak". The bugs really enjoyed it. I took it to a furniture shop (factory) to see if it could be saved. The guy told me no & that there was zero teak in their factory for just this reason.

I had a replacement made of Mai Mac-kaw which is doing nicely & will never have bugs. As GB knows I paid 8500 for the new one. But it will last a lifetime & looks fabulous.

At Seri are a few furniture shops selling tables desks etc made of Golden Teak. They seem to suffer no ill effects.

[Maizefarmer]

The statement "Teak" by its self, can be very misleading - and no more so than in the "land of smiles"

A pretty reliable indicator of the quality of the teak you have (before buying):

- take a small sample of whatever the piece is you are thinking of buying, say about 10cm cubed - weigh it and work out what it would weigh if it was 1 cubic meter. You're half way there - but only half way.

The important part is to work out what percentage of that figure is moisture.

Here's how - the old microwave trick - its not 100% accurate, but its darn well good enough.

Chop the sample up, and/or break it up as much as you can and stick all the pieces in a bowl in the microwave - medium heat for 5 - 10min - weigh again to see if the weight has reduced -back into the microwave.

Keep a record each time you recycle it thorugh the microwave - keep doing till the weight stops reducing, or slows down to a fraction of a percentage per heating cycle.

If the pre-post heating mass of the sample has changed by no more than 8% max, and the weight figure you have equates to 700kg's or more per cubic meter, you have a pretty decent piece of teak (its density is well in what is accepted as been good quality mature teak - so long as that density is not made up of more than 8% max mositure - which is exactly what the case would be if it was immature/undried or uncured teak been passed off as mature teak)).

Whats the accuracy of the above test? - between 3% - 5% - plenty accurate enough.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[teletiger]

Here's an interesting teak growing project. http://tropicalhardwoods.com/index.html

To stay on topic, they dry their cut teak in solar kilns..

Regards

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I agree with Fruity, if you have a pond put it in the pond for several months. When you take it out all the sap will be gone and you don't have to worry about termites etc. Did that with Mango in Australia and it worked well. The Japanese bought huge amounts of Northwest US pine and stored it in lakes, keeps indefinitely.

[Maizefarmer]

I agree with Fruity, if you have a pond put it in the pond for several months. When you take it out all the sap will be gone and you don't have to worry about termites etc. Did that with Mango in Australia and it worked well. The Japanese bought huge amounts of Northwest US pine and stored it in lakes, keeps indefinitely.

2 things about putting the timber in water - first assumed, second an absolute need.

1) that the timber is dense enough to start with - esl its going to roll around on the surface alternating between wt and dry

2) cold water is need to do this - I don't know the actual temp, but real cold is the oprative word here I beleive - and I don't believe there is water in Thailand anywhere near cold enough - and most certainly not at the surface anywhere.

Japs did indeed do it with pine - and there are still timber companies "harvesting" hardwoods from the Great Lakes that has lain there since the timber logging days of 1800's - preserved next to perfectly (and very valuble stuff) because it was dense to sink to start with, has had no bugs, no sunlight, and most importnat of all - that great preserver: icy icy cold water.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[GungaDin]

TaTom.

Please check your private messages.

[linnarr]

Thanks for all the replys.

My trees are about 8 inches in diamiter. I didnt know if I should remove the bark or not or treat with an insecticide.

The roof is not heavy. After reading all the replys, Im a bit concerned if the posts will shrink or twist. I just wanted to use the teak because its free and Im poor.

Thanks, Tom the OP

Tatom,

My father's in Teak business and I have asked him about this. He said to use it as the post, the teak should be about 25-30 years old, but you are going to use it as the patio post so if the roof is not too heavy it should be alright, well, depends on how many posts you are going to use to support the roof as well. To treat it, just cut it down and leave it to dry out for 4-6 months, the bark will come out that's no problem. There are some treatments for the post but you can do that later when your patio's done.

The very important thing is, before cutting the trees down, you have to ask for the permission from the government even it's your own teak wood. That's the law and very strict one!

Good luck.

[tatom]

linnar,

Thanks. Ive noticed the bark is already pulling away from the wood. The roof will not be too heavy for the posts.

As for notifying the law, Ive heard it had to be done. Also, I heard you must notify them when you plant them .

Looks like it will be nice looking posts, very straight.

[GungaDin]

Somehow my link got stuffed up.

re Thai hardwoods and their Botanical names (Apitong etc)

I hope this works: http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/good_wood/imp_avd.htm

cheers

gd