Banks To Protect Atms Against Skimming Scams

[Mali1964]

How incompetent could banks become? Jamming devices?? That would become a bloodbath in Bangkok and other areas with lots of offices and atm's . Nobody would be able anymore to sent wireless data. The banks should simply go for better and thus more expensive atm's that are really protected. In Western europe skimming was a real problem, done by skilled people from Eastern European countries. In South East Asia it is a Malay sport, I bet that you cannot count the number of people who have their creditcard cancelled after paying with it in Malaysia. The proposed solution is again laughable, just like the comment that people can protect themselves. Do we need to inspect the ATM? Do we need to be on the look out for tiny camera's recording our pincode? Come on...

Hi

I have seen something on television about this, it is a copied idea from japan where it seems to be standard that ATM's are equipped with cell phone jammers. I also think it's the wrong thing to do - talk about shopping malls or even 7-Eleven's with attached ATM, people inside will quickly complain when their calls get cut off once they get close to an ATM.

I believe the easiest thing to do is what K-Bank ATM's do (a good many of them at least), they pull the card in veeeeeery slowly and "stuttering" (and also release it in the same way), with the actual reader being deeper inside the machine - this way a skimmer would not be able to read the magnetic strip efficiently.

An even better system would be like a CD-ROM drive - tray opens, put the card inside it, tray closes and the reading happens completely inside the machine. Impossible to get a skimmer attached to such machine, however it would require extensive modification to the ATM.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

That idea of a CD-Rom type drive........is excellent!! It is totally secure for the card to be read...............there is no way the scammers can attach a skimming device.......and following the transaction, the card is delivered safely back to you. If the card is fraudulent..........then it can be confiscated by the machine. It's a great idea.........really! Question is...........who is skilled enough to convince banks................. to actually spend money..................... to safeguard their customers money?

The reason banks would not implement this is vandalism, the tray I'm sure would be snapped off by disgruntled customers not getting there way at the ATM.

[voracious]

In answer to a previous poster: Yes, you do need to look out for cameras and skimmers. Failure to do so may result in your financial loss. I always cup my hand over the keypad when I enter my pin and I always look for suspicious equipment before sticking in my card.

"if it doesn't look right, don't stick it in"

In answer to the other BM who asked what was skimming. The short answer is "any device which is designed to intercept the magnetic code from your card as it enters or leaves the machine"

I'm going to post a few photos that I've found on the internet of skimmers. As you can see, they take many forms.

Be safe!

[Lasic1]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

BANGKOK: -- A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday.

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected.

Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fastdeveloping technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.

-- The Nation 2009-03-10

[Lasic1]

When I come over I use the old fashioned out-moded traveler's checks. Works wonders and I don't mind walking down to a bank or kiosk to cash them. Simple, yet effective and haven't experienced a problem.

Aloha,

Laser

[PhilHarries]

When I come over I use the old fashioned out-moded traveler's checks. Works wonders and I don't mind walking down to a bank or kiosk to cash them. Simple, yet effective and haven't experienced a problem.

Aloha,

Laser

My preferred M.O. also however not so convenient if you live in the country.

Best defence is the two bank accounts, only one has an ATM card and the balance is kept low. But this is not defence against skimming it is merely damage limitation. Not perfect but better than nothing.

[simon43]

My card was skimmed last year at the Bangkok Bank ATM outside 7/11 on Sukhumvit Road, just by Soi 22.

I thought that I was 'streetwise' about these skimmers, but I never spotted anything amiss until the bank called me to cancel my card and inform me of the incident.

Oh - did I get my money (about 100,000 baht) refunded by Bangkok Bank? No, despite police reports of the incident and several meetings with senior bank management, they refused to accept any liability or to refund the money.

But they were kind enough to issue me a new ATM card without having to pay the 500 baht fee....

Simon

Edited March 11, 2009 by simon43

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

It doesn't have to be an actual tray that slides out of the machine, however some such technology. Another one would be a lid that opens, similar to those cash deposit machines or some ATM's money outlet, any system where something opens, card inserted, that "something" then closes and the card disappears inside the machine is safe because a skimmer would have to be installed INSIDE the actual ATM instead of simply stuck to the outside.

A skimmer works just like these swipe-through devices - while inserting the card into the ATM via the slot it goes through the skimmer and a magnetic reader head (similar to the ones inside a tape deck) reads the information on the magnetic strip just like the ATM itself does, only the skimmer stores this information inside a memory chip. An additional camera attached somewhere (or a "lay-on-keypad") records your PIN. And all the crooks have to do is collect their machinery and clone your card, which can then be used anywhere.

However for the device (skimmer) to function the card has to move under the reader head at a certain speed - otherwise you'll get an effect just when the store clerk swipes it through his machine too slow - it just won't work because the device can't read the information. Hence i like K-Bank's ATM's (i'm not a customer of that bank but i use almost only their ATM's) which have this slow insert and eject.

And, of course, if the ATM functions in such a way that inserting the card does not involve any "swiping" movement (i.e. through some sort of slot) it would be impossible to attach a skimmer, which can ONLY work via swiping. Hence my "CD-ROM" idea, it would be 100% safe.

I think it's time to get to the drawing board and then off to the patent office................

Best regards.....

Thanh

[barry]

my tealok and i split 3 accounts: one for her, ome for me, one joint...we use the same ATM at the SCB and even with all that I'll be the first to admit luck still plays a part since technology gets more and more sophisticated all the time

[simon43]

I think it's time to get to the drawing board and then off to the patent office................

Too late - You already put your idea into the public domain

Simon

[diehard60]

I also think it's the wrong thing to do - talk about shopping malls or even 7-Eleven's with attached ATM, people inside will quickly complain when their calls get cut off once they get close to an ATM.

Any mall or 7/11 that did that would get my business. Being forced to listen to the moronic chit-chat of idiots with cell phones attached to their ears in public places is one of the biggest drawbacks of modern technology.

Like smoking, cell phone use should be banned where it is a public health threat.

Well if we are going to go that far then lets stop drinking beer and booze in public places

[john b good]

I guess that thus far I have been lucky.

That said I very rarely ever use my ATM card to withdraw money (or for any other purpose either) from an ATM at a bank.

Maybe once a year if that.

I prefer to use the bank itself which is a little less convenient I admit.

A Marriot Hotel did a fast one on me last year when I paid a deposit on a booking (quoting my card #) The actual total hotel bill was less than the deposit and they swiped the same card again.

Now, yes, you guessed it, the money deducted from my account was the deposit amount and it took me some weeks to have the appropriate credit made into my account. I even threatened them with going straight to William about it.

You can be sure that even in the event of an "honest" mistake here in the realm you will be the victim rather than the beneficiary

Edited March 11, 2009 by john b good

[rotorbreeze]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

BANGKOK: -- A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday.

The community is also considering installing devices that jam wireless signals in areas near ATM machines, to prevent stolen information from being relayed wirelessly, he said. Stickers will help ATM users determine which machine has been protected.

Skimming techniques have been in use for the past few years, though it has become more difficult to come up with protective measures due to fastdeveloping technology. However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.

-- The Nation 2009-03-10

[NanLaew]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

BANGKOK: -- A special device to prevent the theft of information embedded in ATM cards is being installed in more than 30,000 ATM machines nationwide, Phol Thanachote, chairman of the Automated Teller Machines' businesses community, said Tuesday.

However, he said, educated users should be able to protect themselves because they know about the tricks being used by scammers.

-- The Nation 2009-03-10

I've no idea what skimming is and still have no idea after reading all of this thread.

Can somebody please enlighten those of us with no idea or give a link to some explanation?

Sorry, but you seem to be one of the masses of uneducated users and therefore should immediately cut all your plastic money into little bits and stay well away from anything with buttons. In fact they should probably turn off any ATM near you until you leave the vicinity.

Alternately, you can send your uncut plastic money to me along with the PIN's and I will get back to you with the answers you so desperately seek.

Edited March 11, 2009 by NanLaew

[Sir_Sanuk]

I've noticed a few ATMs near me now have a dark green plastic 'mouthpiece' thing over the slot where you insert your card, with a picture of a padlock on them.. does anyone know if these have been installed by the bank or by skimmers?

thanks

[rotorbreeze]

Banks to protect ATMs against skimming scams

I have now gotten an new ATM Card from Siam Commercial Bank, the old one I used a couple times but feel spending a 100 baht for new one will give me peace of mind. I will now not use my debit card near any 7-11 I will go to the closest bank that has upgraded their ATM system to assure it is secure.

[UbonTaz]

Maybe a solution would be to get a personal mobile jamming device. That way you can protect yourself. Also would come in handy in other situations, such as closing down those who insist on long loud mobile phone conversations on buses, trains and other places.

[NanLaew]

I've noticed a few ATMs near me now have a dark green plastic 'mouthpiece' thing over the slot where you insert your card, with a picture of a padlock on them.. does anyone know if these have been installed by the bank or by skimmers?

thanks

Give us a clue here Sir S, where exactly is 'near me' and what bank owns these ATM machines?

If you cant answer this then sorry, but you seem to be one of the masses of uneducated users and therefore should immediately cut all your plastic money into little bits and stay well away from anything with buttons. In fact they should probably turn off any ATM near you until you leave the vicinity.

Alternately, you can send your uncut plastic money to me along with the PIN's and I will get back to you with the answers you so desperately seek.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Anyone got advice on how to spot or test for a skimming device ?

Is it possible to get an ATM card that can be used before your main card, to test for the presence of an illegal device ?

I guess soem good advice is to use an ATM that is inside a bank - I know this isnt always convenient, but it may reduce the risk.

Also, anyone got photos of the device proposed in this article and how to know if it is genuine - if it is visible that is...

Here's some photos of an ATM skimming device. This is the bad guy - an attached card reader and key pad. It'll clone your card via the stuck on scanner and get your pin number via the stuck on key pad.

Thanks for that Tropo, very helpful.

[rotorbreeze]

When I come over I use the old fashioned out-moded traveler's checks. Works wonders and I don't mind walking down to a bank or kiosk to cash them. Simple, yet effective and haven't experienced a problem.

Even Travel Cheques are not safe... stolen by my x wife, she signed them without a passport just photo copy on mine again stolen... taken to her Kasakorn Bank in Roi Et, manager let her cash 5000$ in one hundreds notes and signature not the same...I have copes on file. I am still going after the bank manager for his fault in allow this to happen. If anyone has documented information on the correct procedure here in Thailand that requires a valid passport and the person signing cheques in front of cashier please reply..rotorbreeze AT usa.net I need this informaton to go after Kasakorn Bank in Roi Et, American express washed their hands of it in a email to me..

[sangfroid]

Why don't they start using eyescan or fingerprint technology, theres many options.

As for many credit cards now theres a digital photo on the card, I understand that doesnt help with internet fraud etc.....maybe people that want to use their credit cards online could go thru an eyescan or something similar.

You think with all the millions in fraud going out the door that things would progress a little quicker in the security dept.

All the millions going out the door are paid for by us the hapless card holder by means of an extra half a percentage point or so on the interest rate we are charged.

[goatfarmer]

Personally, I cover my hand when entering the PIN (even with nobody around), and tend to use the same ATMs all the time so that I'd notice if something was different.

I use my thumb knuckle and thumbnail in combination to enter my pin. The hand covers the keys quite well.

[Lindern]

Having been drained of more than $7000US from Thai ATM machines you would think that Banks would consider putting cam surveillance on ATMS.

It would also help if the police even cared about the crime.

I don't wish that ordeal on even my worst enemy.

[NanLaew]

Regarding jamming of cellphones near ATM's, I think that a couple of banks here do 'one-time PIN' type transactions that require a cellphone to receive a PIN via SMS when transferring between different accounts at different banks. Sometimes that 'slow girl with the cellphone' at the ATM is simply using the services she is paying for. Blocking her cellphone will only make her more slow.

There's the usual good advice here though, including:

Always use ATM's inside or part of a bank building and NOT a hole-in-the-wall type. I do.

Try and use the same ATM and withdraw the same amount each time. I do.

Never use ATM's late at night in remote locations. I don't.

Observe activity around the ATM machine you want to use, if there's anyone obviously just hanging around, don't use it. I wouldn't.

Always keep a minimum balance in the account linked with the ATM card. I do.

Make sure you have your card fraud emergency numbers handy. I do.

Most bank card fraud departments appreciate you calling them to update them whenever you are traveling. Mine does (two different banks in two different countries).

For online users, both VISA and MasterCard use an online verification procedure based on '3-D Secure' that you should register your card(s) with. "Verified by VISA" and "SecureCode by MasterCard" are free services provided by the primary card issuers and supported by a growing amount of online vendors. Your bank that issued the VISA or MasterCard may not have pointed out this feature but you should go online and do it anyway.

One advantage of this card registration is that any goods ordered online can only be delivered to the address linked with the card being used. I was skimmed last year but the fraudulent cellphone and wristwatch purchases ended up being sent to my office; that must have pissed off the scammers! My bank had already stepped in and locked the plastic when a third, much larger transaction raised their security flags. A full refund was in place immediately and a new card issued within 24-hours and after signing the affidavit, the fraud matter was researched and closed within 30-days. All this while I was traveling overseas.

There are absolutely NO guarantees that these services will provide you with 100% security as the card fraud industry is very dynamic. However, like a burglar alarm sticker on a car window, they are an added deterrent to the skimmers and scammers. In the end, it's entirely up to you the customer to avail yourself of the latest protection available. It would appear that most Thai banks do not subscribe to any form of customer protection beyond the bare minimum and seeking redress and refunds is an alien concept here.

[greenhornet]

In reference to technology scammers. One of the easiest and probably common was witnessed while waiting to use an ATM in Bangkok near Sukumvit, A guy in front was using the machine with his 'girlfriend' all over him. She had her mobile behind her back quietly typing in his pin number one handed into her phone while he made the transaction.

cheers Green hornet

[Sir_Sanuk]

I've noticed a few ATMs near me now have a dark green plastic 'mouthpiece' thing over the slot where you insert your card, with a picture of a padlock on them.. does anyone know if these have been installed by the bank or by skimmers?

thanks

Give us a clue here Sir S, where exactly is 'near me' and what bank owns these ATM machines?

One example is the orange Thannachart Bank ATMs in Thonglor... Anyone else noticed this?

Edited March 11, 2009 by Sir_Sanuk

[Cuban]

> Why don't they start using eyescan or fingerprint technology, theres many options.

In which case when the 'system' is hacked and the ATM's log reports that the eyescam (!) or fingerprint was checked OK and that information is compared with your report that the transaction was not made by you - it will be difficult to trust any ATM.

Fingerprints can be copied, there are many real life examples of this being tested in the field. I'm not aware of eyescanners being beaten yet - but the issue of trusting your eyes with an unknown ATM or in an unknown country makes me think that such a system would be difficult to impliment. Having a reader that required close physical contact is simply too dangerous considering the ease with which eye infections can be transmitted. The future urban legends about eye burning lasers installed by terrorists would quickly kill such a system. Once your eyescan is 'recorded' by an ATM - how do you know that it is safely stored and will not be either hacked, stolen or sold? Banks are supposed to be safe secure places, I think we have seen that this is not longer the case. Many banks internationally sub-contract call-center and programming work to countries where there is questionable data security standards, can you know that once scanned the relavent bio-metric data remains secure?

With keypads it's wise to use one hand to cover the other's finger tapping in your PIN. Then when you have finished your transaction, press every other button on the pad - this combats the use of a spray to identify which buttons you pressed.

I arrange my cards in my wallet so that when opening the wallet my name is not easily seen, I understand that the first hack on ATM usage was with someone using a long lens camera to see the PIN being tapped in - now with pin-hole cameras they can be mounted more closely.

The use of wireless jamming is not so wise, many ATMs dotted around Thailand (and other countries) rely on aircard type wireless connections to establish the data connection between the ATM and it's central bank's computers.

In real life small data transmitters operating in different sections of the radio spectrum are available, to be effective you would need to block all RF traffic, simply neither practical or desirable these days.

Having watched a French programme about 'new' Passports the other evening, don't get me started on RF read chips, the designers of these various protections appear to be really stupid considering the speed at which the general public can poke large holes in their 'clever' ideas.

[Captain Haddock]

"For online users, both VISA and MasterCard use an online verification procedure based on '3-D Secure' that you should register your card(s) with. "Verified by VISA" and "SecureCode by MasterCard" are free services provided by the primary card issuers and supported by a growing amount of online vendors. Your bank that issued the VISA or MasterCard may not have pointed out this feature but you should go online and do it anyway."

I tried this yesterday with AirAsia and my Mastercard. I had virtually completed the while transaction when the "Verified by MC" pop-up told me 3 times I had incorrectly filled out the online form - I hadn't, obviously. So the system barred my credit card from using AirAsia. So Nok Air gets my business...

When will banks learn that they have to inform the customer before they do security checks, as they just louse up their own business and lose customers!

[captbob]

Personely i dont trust ATM so i dont use it and never pay with my credit card always go to the bank (inside )and belive it or not in 18 month i was the new owner of 2 washigs machines 3 cloth dryers (Us )5000.oo us of curry powder (england) and over 10000.oo in boat part (france)and no credit card for 6 weeks.....Time of investigation...at the TMB bank Vientiane they say ho sorry probably internet line and I say its your private line you must protect it ho ho sory sory sir its bangkok problem What can i do..i change f*** bank Now its seems ok whit Bangkok bank .f*** them all

[sedeflonga]

I think it is important to know HOW those fraudsters/scammers work.

here more information about it...

Beware of The ATM "Skimmer" Scam!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2430575442900584430

Typical ATM Scam

http://www.utexas.edu/police/alerts/atm_scam/

Debit card thieves get around PIN obstacle

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11731365/

ATM fraud: Banking on your money

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3607110/

[tonykawakawa]

So where on Suk would be an "ideal" location to use the atm?

I usually use the atms located inside of malls (emporium/mbk) or the one that is outside of robinsons next to mcdonalds, but as already mentioned here, some members have had their cards skimmed from these machines.