Do It Or Not?

[bogaty]

I've been teaching in Japan for 7 years now. I spent 3 years in Tokyo before getting sick of the stress of the big city and moved to rural Japan to take a job teaching at a private high school. I've been here for 4 years and it's mostly been good. I get paid 300,000 yen per month (110,000 baht) and they pay for my apartment. I teach 19 45 minute classes per week with a Japanese assistant and I get a total of about 13 weeks off when you add up summer, winter, and spring breaks.

However, the cost of living is high, the amenities in Japan are sorely lacking (things like insulated buildings, schools or apartments with heat, etc.) and my students are pretty much useless, unmotivated lumps.

I've been thinking about making the move to Thailand for the last few years. Over the winter break, I'd lined up some interviews and I've been offered a job in Chonburi. The pay is 34,000 a month plus another 5,000 for housing allowance. 20 classes per week teaching elementary school kids in a full immersion program. I've taught elementary kids before in Korea and it's not exactly my favourite age group to teach, but there is the possibility to transfer to teaching junior high aged kids.

The question is, is it worth it to take the pay cut for the change in lifestyle? I like the quiet life so all I'm really looking for is a job that let's me pay the bills, go to the gym, go scuba diving on the weekends and maybe enjoy the odd weekend out up in Bangkok or Pattaya.

I'd appreciate if anyone could lay out the negatives of taking the position as I have to decide by next Wednesday.

[PeaceBlondie]

You just want us to tell you the negatives? That's easy, but it's not balanced. The pay is enough to survive, but if you have qualifications like B.Ed. and proper certification and solid gold references, you should be getting 50K or more. The kids will be lumps. They may be spoiled if it's a private school or private program, and it's probaby one or the other. Junior high kids aren't lumps, but they're noisy. What is the class size? Thai educators think 31 is a small class, but it ain't when the kids are under the age of 16. I taught 17 year olds this week and they're miles more mature and quiet than the 13's are.

Thai kids haven't been trained to think or work independently. Cheating and copying is rampant and accepted. You probably can't flunk anybody. Academic standards are low or confused, and school administration is usually chaotic, unpredictable, and your contract isn't worth much. It's not Japan.

IJWT is one of the regulars on this forum who's taught in both places. If you just want to get away from cold weather, try Singapore. Thailand is not usually considered a step up in the EFL career world. But if you just want to get away from homophobia, come ahead.

[bogaty]

I'm not too worried about the working conditions. I've taught in various countries for the last 10 years and can adjust. The class sizes are pretty small with 12-16 kids per class, but they are from wealthy families and the other teachers have said they and their parents are pretty whiny.

I'm more interested in the living situation. I've been to Thailand about 15 times, but always as a tourist. I'm basically wondering if living on 34,000 a month is feasible if I don't relish the idea of eating noodles from a stand every day and have to live in fear of turning on the A/C for the last week in case the elec. bill breaks the bank.

[Ijustwannateach]

Bogaty: I did exactly what you're contemplating doing. The short version? If I'd known what I was getting into, I wouldn't have come over. However, now that I've been through the newbie ###### here [it took me 2 years to find a position I could be happy with] , I'm doing much better and I'm (at the moment) glad I did. However, my attitude about it seems to flip-flop about every 6 months. Life here can be a roller coaster.

Economics? If you like cheap Thai food more than you like cheap Japanese food, you'll be doing a bit better here than there. However, if your school doesn't give you a real visa and WP along with the salary, you'll be spending a good 10% of your income on trips and paperwork. Remember that your medical expenses will be higher here and the insurance less or non-existent.

A lot depends on exactly what kind of situation you will be (you think you will be) getting into here. Give me a few more details and questions, or PM me if you like.

"Steven"

[paully]

For Chonburi, that doesn't sound too bad a deal: I should have thought that a 5,000 baht housing allowance should get you somewhere reasonably decent to live in the area (but Pattaya can be more expensive to live in due to the high number of foreign residents). But, you have to remember that, as IJWT and Peaceblondie know all too well, you won't get rich teaching in Thailand. You may not be financially better off than Japan, taking everything into account, probably worse.

The lifestyle here may be more to your liking, but don't expect too much from Thai kids in the intellectual or diligent department: "useless, unmotivated lumps" could easily be applied to some of the kids here in Thailand, if you're in uncharitable mood or having a worse-than-usual day.

[Ijustwannateach]

Don't even bother to leave if they don't give you the papers for the non-imm.-B visa before you come to Thailand- without them, you're resigned *at best* to at least one more trip out of the country 30 days later (or 60 days if you're on a tourist visa). Run away especially quickly if they tell you "don't worry about all that, we'll take care of it." Remember that until your work permit is official, any contract they agree to do with you is worth less than the paper it's printed on.

Ideally, you'd go in on one of your vacations from the Japanese school on a non-imm.B... then see how serious they were about giving you a work permit... if they can't get the paperwork going in a month or so (by the end of your vacation) then head back to the sensible life in Japan. Nope, there's no way to FORCE them to give you the WP or hold them accountable if they don't- catch-22- you have to have the work permit to get Thai labor to be interested in you so that you can take care of the work permit; otherwise you're just an exploited illegal worker!

There's no union or labor law here to protect farang... it's quite easy to fire a farang.... let's see, other things I wish I had known... Italian food isn't as good or as cheap here as in Japan... the baked stuff is better there too...

that's about it, as far as generalities go. Ask some more questions and I'll do my best to answer!

"Steven"

[bogaty]

They promised a work visa and medical/dental insurance. No more than 20 classes per week, 8-4 Mon to Fri and participation in special trips/events on weekends.

I've gota fair amount of cash socked away from my work here, so getting rich is not a worry.

The job is an English Immersion program run through a university but the students are elementary, junior high, and high school age. They want me to teach elementary, but I'd prefer to teach junior high despite talking with the other farang teachers who work there, all of whom say that there's a lot more work involved with the junior high kids. It's not only teaching English, but other courses as well. They provide a Thai translator for each class to explain the meta-language to the kids.

Overall, the job sounds OK, I'm just wondering what kind of pitfalls there are living there long term with such things as finding an apartment, getting a car and licence, insurance, dealing with local gov't, corruption issues concerning rent, and a bunch of other stuff that's slipped my mind right now.

[sriracha john]

The job is an English Immersion program run through a university but the

is that Burapha U?

[astral]

I wonder if you will get a work permit on such a low salary.

5000 baht will not get you much of a house or apartment in this area.

The reasonable miniumum is 10-15,000.

You may be able to live in the salary, but it leaves little for emergencies, medical insurance, and annual holiday, etc

[Ijustwannateach]

They promised a work visa and medical/dental insurance.  No more than 20 classes per week, 8-4 Mon to Fri and participation in special trips/events on weekends. 

I've gota fair amount of cash socked away from my work here, so getting rich is not a worry.

The job is an English Immersion program run through a university but the students are elementary, junior high, and high school age.  They want me to teach elementary, but I'd prefer to teach junior high despite talking with the other farang teachers who work there, all of whom say that there's a lot more work involved with the junior high kids.  It's not only teaching English, but other courses as well.  They provide a Thai translator for each class to explain the meta-language to the kids. 

Overall, the job sounds OK, I'm just wondering what kind of pitfalls there are living there long term with such things as finding an apartment, getting a car and licence, insurance, dealing with local gov't, corruption issues concerning rent, and a bunch of other stuff that's slipped my mind right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

20 classes per week is a *lot*. They're not quiet and pliable as most Japanese classes are. You can have serious monkey-control problems. It's good that they're promising a Thai "assistant." Hold them to it, and make sure the Thai assistant is also responsible (at least partly) for discipline. Make sure this understood at the beginning so that if your Thai assistants start mysteriously disappearing or do nothing to help, that your complaints will be taken seriously.

Make sure it's understood that during school holiday/closures you are both a) paid, and on holiday. No summer "English" camps in the middle of the break, no seminars in Thai with all your faculty buddies at a dirt-cheap resort in Hua Hin, no unpaid months. If they reply that "that's the way we do it with the Thai teachers," remind them you are not a Thai teacher. It would be best to write these things into your non-contract [which is not a contract until you have the non-imm B visa, the teacher's license, the work permit, the visa extension, and the tax certificate].

You write about a "work visa." Unlike Japan, there is no such thing here as a work visa. You get a non-immigrant "B" visa, which covers a variety of sins, and then enter the country and go through a tremendously painful teacher's license and work permit application. Without the non-imm. B you cannot get the work permit. There is another thread in this section where I discuss the "paper trail" for teachers; I'd highly recommend you check that (and every other thread in this section) before making any jumps over. Schools here are notoriously slow and unreliable in getting the papers straight- and since you have no *legal* contract until you have the papers [an important point to remember- NONE Of your school's promises have any legal weight until THEY help you get the papers from the government, should they choose to do so!] you are basically leaving a lot to trust. Numerous teachers have been burned on this issue, including myself at several schools here with people I knew before I came over and thought were my friends.

I cannot emphasize too much- you MUST get the non-imm. B before arriving in Thailand, otherwise you will be forced to do visa runs to Laos or Penang within a month or so, probably at your expense. If they're not willing to get the paperwork straight from the beginning, they probably won't do it later, either. I think that should be your biggest immediate concern, before coming over. If your school says "just come on a tourist visa," dump them and start over or you'll be sorry. Trust me, I know.

You say money's not a concern- but for how many years will you need to supplement a 34K income by, say, 10-20K a month from your savings? I think you'll be looking for other work once you're here.

Your other concerns (house, car, etc.) are relatively minor, I feel. The bureaucracy and entrenchedness factors are much lighter here- you don't necessarily need official sponsorship for a place to live (even on a tourist visa!). I know many more drivers here than I did in Japan. Good private insurance can be expensive and is relatively poor in benefits, but it can be had (though you'll be spending a hefty chunk of that 34K on it, along with your car insurance and other payments). Make sure the insurance the school's offering amounts to more than "you can get free aspirin in the nurse's office." I'd suggest you look over on ajarn.com where they have an insurance article at the top of the page at the moment.

Many of your "lifestyle" questions can also be answered by reading other sections of this forum; this section is devoted more to teaching and related paperwork issues.

"Steven"