How Many Bargirls In Bkk/thailand?

[meemiathai]

This sentence on its own does not make sense. You did not say anything that has proved "sex work has been on the increase since 1997", did you?

Think you have to be thick to debate if numbers haven't increased since 97!

I think one has to be thick to think that this is anything about the actual numbers having increased or not.

[kat]

Its really hardy to quantify- you have people constantly in/out of the trade. Its like asking someone how many crumbs in a loaf of bread?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know, right - will that be whole grain or white bread? Even the definition of sex work is tenuous here.

I think one has to be thick to think that this is anything about the actual numbers having increased or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why, Meemia? Even though actual numbers are hard for anyone given the research topic, no one is debating the fact that numbers have actually increased.

Are you?

[meemiathai]

I am getting dizzy and speechless.

Too much computer I supposed.

[kat]

oh, man, Ravisher did you just pull out that tired old parable about the "Indecent Proposal" scenario? The thing about this example, is that it is a "parable" and not a real occurrence.

For that matter, how many straight men would sleep with another man for 1 million dollars?

edited because I can't spell to save my life sometimes; ok most of the time.

Edited January 19, 2005 by kat

[britmaveric]

oh, man, Ravisher did you just pull out that tired old parable about the "Indecent Proposal" scenario?  The thing about this example, is that it is a "parable" and not a real occurrence.

For that matter, how many straight men would sleep with another man for 1 million dollars?

edited because I can't spell to save my life sometimes;  ok most of the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Million dollars and no memory of it????

[LaoPo]

I wonder what % of women would do it for a million dollars, if they were positive nobody would ever find out? Sure not ALL women would do it... but it's got to be in the high 90's that would.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question is Ravisher....

How many men are there in the world willing to spend 1 million dollars to 'it' ?

[meemiathai]

For that matter, how many straight men would sleep with another man for 1 million dollars?

I will!

[kat]

Good night, gentlemen. I'm getting kicked out of this internet place.

sleep.

[LaoPo]

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is true I wonder (apart from the 'money involved) why so many University-students are involved in the sex business. Is there an explanation?

Are they 'thrilled', excitement maybe or do they do it because it's a kind of 'fashion' on the Universities to make some extra money this way?

Who are the 'clients', Thai or Farang, or both?

Can I assume that most University-students are from middle to upper class families? If so, I can hardly believe that they are raised in their families with this kind of 'morality' so they must 'learn' this when attending the University, or am I completely wrong?

[chanchao]

Never trust a statistic that originated in Thailand. 30-50% is just silly. 3-5%, sure, even 10%, depending how/who you count: whatever.

[meadish_sweetball]

Pretty pointless to argue about unreliable statistics.

Even if the number of prostitutes has not increased, there are still many girls (and probably a few boys too) who would not have been there today if they had had a decent choice to start with.

That is where we should start the discussion too... if we have a desire to change anything, that is. I have had this discussion far too many times already though, I think I will ask to be excused.

[TizMe]

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

97.3% of all statistics are unreliable.

[TizMe]

Estimates of the number of sex workers in Thailand are subject to wide variation. The most reliable suggestion is that there are between 150,000 and 200,000 sex workers

Boonchalaksi, Wathinee and Philip Guest (1998) ‘Prostitution in Thailand’ in Lim, L.L. The Sex Sector p.160

[kat]

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is true I wonder (apart from the 'money involved) why so many University-students are involved in the sex business. Is there an explanation?

Are they 'thrilled', excitement maybe or do they do it because it's a kind of 'fashion' on the Universities to make some extra money this way?

Who are the 'clients', Thai or Farang, or both?

Can I assume that most University-students are from middle to upper class families? If so, I can hardly believe that they are raised in their families with this kind of 'morality' so they must 'learn' this when attending the University, or am I completely wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on what I hear from reliable unpublished sources many of the male and female university students are freelance. There are alot of hidden venues for "elite" Thai men that serve up uni students like a buffet.

Never trust a statistic that originated in Thailand.  30-50% is just silly.  3-5%, sure, even 10%, depending how/who you count: whatever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't argue this statistic, because as I said, I heard it second-hand and have been unable to verify it independently.

However, if you think 30-50% is silly just because of the high proportion, then you will most likely dismiss a lot of good and reliable research on Thailand and SEA that is unflattering. In that case, the research is not at fault. Sometimes the truth really is hard to believe.

If you are familiar with reliable estimates and multiple sources on other issues such as locally-based sexual abuse and other family dysfunctions, 30-50% would cease to be "silly".

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

97.3% of all statistics are unreliable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whereas the personal biases of people are 100% predictable. Not all statistics are made the same.

Estimates of the number of sex workers in Thailand are subject to wide variation. The most reliable suggestion is that there are between 150,000 and 200,000 sex workers

Boonchalaksi, Wathinee and Philip Guest (1998) ‘Prostitution in Thailand’ in Lim, L.L. The Sex Sector p.160

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As we stated earlier on this thread, numbers have increased since 1998. Secondly, you should check the source/reference of Boonchalaski, Wathinee, and Guest's "suggestion". This is a number that was promoted by the police department in 1994, which only counted the number of prostitutes at entertainment venues, and one in which the police had several reasons to minimize.

[kat]

Pretty pointless to argue about unreliable statistics.

Even if the number of prostitutes has not increased, there are still many girls (and probably a few boys too) who would not have been there today if they had had a decent choice to start with.

That is where we should start the discussion too... if we have a desire to change anything, that is. I have had this discussion far too many times already though, I think I will ask to be excused.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can sympathize with your point of view, but how do you go about changing things when you start from a place of denial in the first place? Either you don't want things to change, or your ego is invested somehow in the findings. I am not necessarily asking you this question.

In terms of decent choices, I agree with you. But I think that would also mean putting an end to the abominable wage suppression in this country, which would mean the end of "paradise" for many different sectors, including the expat one.

[LaoPo]

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

97.3% of all statistics are unreliable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about this 97.3%...is that reliable ?

[Scallywag]

Never come across a Thai woman that said NO, had to work at the price sometimes, paid over the top for a Black and White but just had to have it, walking around Moobiecon, 2 hours for 4,000 baht and 18 yrs old.

[LaoPo]

Kat: I read your comments on Jan. 20th at 17.38.29 but it was too long to quote here again.

Isn't it hard to understand why Thai University students would present themselves (or have) on a plate to the 'elite' Thai (men, I suppose)?

Some more than 2 1/2 decades ago on my first trip to TH I saw 2 old Thai guys 'slurping' their dinner, whilst on the other table there was an old Mama San with 2 very young girls; both parties didn't even look at each other; When dinner was finished the men went through a door and the Mama San and girls followed....

I know: 'old story' but these girls were not students by all means.

What I am finding so difficult to understand is the 'business' at Thai Universities; is it only money or some sort of fashion, thrill, excitement?

Aren't the parents of these students aware of this 'situation' and don't support them with enough money..?

OK, ok, I know, all over the world a certain % of students do the same, but not in these large numbers as discussed before.

But middle to upper class girls (and boys).......?

LaoPo

[kreon]

a Thai study that stated up to 30-50% of Thai unviersity students were involved in sex trade (but I heard of this second-hand).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is true I wonder (apart from the 'money involved) why so many University-students are involved in the sex business. Is there an explanation?

Are they 'thrilled', excitement maybe or do they do it because it's a kind of 'fashion' on the Universities to make some extra money this way?

Who are the 'clients', Thai or Farang, or both?

Can I assume that most University-students are from middle to upper class families? If so, I can hardly believe that they are raised in their families with this kind of 'morality' so they must 'learn' this when attending the University, or am I completely wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think it is because they are bored with the young thai lads(see thai soapies)

as a farlanf and lover of young females, i have almost always dated 18-25yrs old students, here in thailand, france, australia, singapore etc.

they seem to like older persons because of the mental support they often dont get from their own parents, we are wel educated, have/had succesful businesses and/or are financially stable, we have gloab life experiences to talk about and they believe, combined with their studies, that they can gain from that in

funny part is they come from all walks of life, and often after they complete their studies, get a job and get married and have kids

prostitutes, i dont know, they do this out of their own free will, often they dont want money as they have it themselves, and if they dont like it they can move on

youd be suprised at the introductions i often get

Edited January 21, 2005 by kreon

[kat]

From what I understand LaoPo, it is a combination of financial need for some, but mostly a desire to keep up on the consumer fashions and maintaining face, or status. There is also a history of student concubinage up to this day with other institutions. For legal reasons, you'll have to figure out the rest.

As Kreon mentioned, as well as others, an older partner here is a sort of status symbol. It is also not culturally taboo because of the patron/client orientation to most relationships.

Like I said, I heard of the student study second-hand, from a Thai university-educated femal friend who has no reason at all to fabricate. But there have been other reports of this both informal and formal that indicate numbers are higher than what most would consider usual. I've also heard through the grapevine that there is a sort of "syndicate" of professional (edit: professional as in non-sex work) women here who moonlight as "freelancers" in a very organized fashion, but this is heresay. It is very hard to confirm.

Edited January 21, 2005 by kat

[Pink Mist]

I think the question has been answered in one way or another and this is really way off topic now, so it's closed.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think the question has been answered in one way or another and this is really way off topic now, so it's closed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank God for that Blonco.

[Pink Mist]

you could see where it was heading

[dr_Pat_Pong]

you could see where it was heading

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You and I could carry out a survey but I guess that mightn't overly thrill Missus Blonco