Arrest Warrant Issued For Giles Ungpakorn For Lese Majeste

[Splatter]

Has anyone actually read his book??

If so maybe they can add something to the topic regarding what the offending paragraph etc. actually contained. How did he criticise the monarchy? Did he suggest the monarcjy was behind the coup?

What's the story.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10623213/Excerpt...up-for-the-Rich

[Plus]

On one hand the anti-LM proponents talk about multitude of charges. Ok, that's obvious. But then, why only Giles refuses to accept justice system here? Why all the others, Suwalak, who has been cleared by the courts 18 times, Sondhi who has been sentenced, Jakrapopb - why all the others accept courts authority and have faith in fair trial and justice system?

Giles is the only coward who ran away.

On the subject of his offence - you publish allegations against real people, you'd better be ready to defend them. You can't just wrtie that so and so murdered people, wiped out whole families, you can't just write that such and such was supporting some illegal acts.

If you do - be ready to support your allegations.

Thaksin has been suing people for saying a lot less, lots of others sued people for making baseless accusations. Why does Giles demand that royalty should be refused such legal protection? Why does Giles think he should be free to say whatever he wants without any responsibility.

Coward.

Running away to avoid presenting his case and accuse everyone else from distance? True coward.

Or, perhaps, he realised that there's no substance whatsoever in his allegations and so they are indefensible in court.

Do you really believe what you write ?

If yes, I feel sorry for you.

Compulsive mental delusion is a serious medical condition. Seek professional help .

Could you please raise up your "game" or change your name to something neutral. I don't want to be assossiated with someone like you in any way.

"Minus" could have been such a greast nemesis. Turned out to be a waste.

[Paitip]

Why all the others, Suwalak, who has been cleared by the courts 18 times, Sondhi who has been sentenced, Jakrapopb - why all the others accept courts authority and have faith in fair trial and justice system?

If Sondhi have been sentenced, why is he still walking FREE?

IMHO, I am quite sure they would put Giles in jail, max sentence, and no pardon. Because his thinking is Western, not Thai.

[jayboy]

On one hand the anti-LM proponents talk about multitude of charges. Ok, that's obvious. But then, why only Giles refuses to accept justice system here? Why all the others, Suwalak, who has been cleared by the courts 18 times, Sondhi who has been sentenced, Jakrapopb - why all the others accept courts authority and have faith in fair trial and justice system?

Giles is the only coward who ran away.

On the subject of his offence - you publish allegations against real people, you'd better be ready to defend them. You can't just wrtie that so and so murdered people, wiped out whole families, you can't just write that such and such was supporting some illegal acts.

If you do - be ready to support your allegations.

Why does Giles demand that royalty should be refused such legal protection? Why does Giles think he should be free to say whatever he wants without any responsibility.

Coward.

To be honest I haven't read Giles book (and can't be bothered to do so either) so don't really understand your comments on "murdered people " etc.I do understand he makes a republican proposal which other LM offenders presumably have not.As previously noted it would be impossible for Giles to receive a fair trial in Thailand.You fling around the epithet "coward" without taking into account Giles record of courage over the last two decades.He's silly and misguided I grant you but except in the minds of zealots his alleged offence in the greater scheme of things is miniscule.

[neverdie]

"Minus" could have been such a greast nemesis. Turned out to be a waste

Me actually thinks that 'minus' is sumwun else comin out to annoy u , what other reason would a newbie surface to attack for.

Giles isnt the first fellow to do a runner in recent history & the thais don't seem too efficient in heading out to bring their man back, do they?

Edited March 26, 2009 by neverdie

[clausewitz]

I find it amazing that some contributors here wish to condemn him and his cause of free speech yet wish to engage in free speech themselves online here! Soon there will be no free speech at all in this country as it takes the rapid descent it is into a repressive right wing regime stamping on any dissident words.... are there some who really cannot see that path unfolding?

That is different case. When someone is openly critical of PAD and the last coup and even the people who wrote teh new constitution then they obviously have no understanding of true democracy. True democracy is not about voting and free speech, it is about respecting important people in bangkok- generals and the like.

[sriracha john]

Giles could also easily become a scape goat given he has no political power, he's an independent activist.

But I thought he was part of the Red Shirt Movement. Don't they support his Red Shirt member's views?

[yeti]

Or, perhaps, he realised that there's no substance whatsoever in his allegations and so they are indefensible in court.

We are talking Lèse Majesté here, not libel. Proving that what you say is true is not a defense against lèse-majesté, and the court will not even let you try. The only thing the court cares about (as this is the way the law is written) is wether what was said was offensive. True or not is not important (actually is it's true your case is probably looking even worst).

And in the recent past everybody knows that the interpretation of what is considered offensive is quite broad.

[TAWP]

Or, perhaps, he realised that there's no substance whatsoever in his allegations and so they are indefensible in court.

We are talking Lèse Majesté here, not libel. Proving that what you say is true is not a defense against lèse-majesté, and the court will not even let you try. The only thing the court cares about (as this is the way the law is written) is wether what was said was offensive. True or not is not important (actually is it's true your case is probably looking even worst).

And in the recent past everybody knows that the interpretation of what is considered offensive is quite broad.

As a sidenote, in many countries (including mine) libel includes saying something about someone that is true if the intent is to embarrass them.

[Electra]

For the benefit of the more obtuse of forum members perhaps it would be pertinent to point out that Giles has quit the country for the very same reason that prevents a full and frank discussion of the topic here at TV.

[marquess]

For the benefit of the more obtuse of forum members perhaps it would be pertinent to point out that Giles has quit the country for the very same reason that prevents a full and frank discussion of the topic here at TV.

Well said!

[samgrowth]

For the benefit of the more obtuse of forum members perhaps it would be pertinent to point out that Giles has quit the country for the very same reason that prevents a full and frank discussion of the topic here at TV.

Well said!

Moderator, pls shut down TV before Mark's LM police come knocking at your door.

Edited March 26, 2009 by samgrowth

[jayboy]

He is also an academic of

there's a reason he's referred to as "former" academic in the thread title...

he resigned last month

I'm guessing from your comment that you may not have much knowledge of university usage

Giles is, was and continues to be an "academic", to use that rather barbarous word, regardless of whether he is employed by a university or not.

[marquess]

I second the above comment, it is pointless trying to discuss this objectively here!

[otherstuff1957]

The political change that the PAD were talking about will not be implemented by the current goverment, because they cannot do it. Things will be shuffled around a bit but essentially all the existing structures are still there. For real change, the society needs a paradigm shift , unfortunately it will be extremely difficult due to brainwashing since birth , but the thing I like about Giles is that he is providing an alternative for real change in society.

Of course, the social elites oppose anything that threatens their hold, this happens in every country in every part of the world, and unsurprisingly Giles has found himself the target of an arrest warrant for challenging the establishment. Of course he won't get a fair trial.

You made some very good points there. If you and the other redshirts would just stop worshiping that gangster Thaksin and his incompetent cronies you could be a real force for positive change in this country.

As for Giles, I would say that some of the things he said in his Red Siam manifesto would be unforgivably insulting to the majority of the Thai people. I think he has burned his bridges behind him.

[henryalleman]

What do you expect from a country who is ranked 124 on 173 in the Worldwide press freedom index?

[sriracha john]

He is also an academic of

there's a reason he's referred to as "former" academic in the thread title...

he resigned last month

I'm guessing from your comment that you may not have much knowledge of university usage

Giles is, was and continues to be an "academic", to use that rather barbarous word, regardless of whether he is employed by a university or not.

you're not familiar with the terminology "former academic"

[sriracha john]

You made some very good points there. If you and the other redshirts would just stop worshiping that gangster Thaksin and his incompetent cronies you could be a real force for positive change in this country.

As for Giles, I would say that some of the things he said in his Red Siam manifesto would be unforgivably insulting to the majority of the Thai people. I think he has burned his bridges behind him.

Which is the point I'm interested in. Where do the Red Shirts stand regarding his points stated in his Red Siam manifesto?

Granted most of the population is not even aware of who Giles is... which belies the Western media reports describing him as "prominent" activist, etc.

but still, even better, provided a copy of his manifesto, in Thai, to Thais you know and just see how they react to his proposals and other things he has to say in it.

Is this what the Red Shirt movement stands for? Do they share the same opinions and goals?

Just where does Giles sit in the grand scheme of things with the Red Shirts?

[samgrowth]

Like his father, Giles can never step Thailand again this life time.

[Ga-gai]

Has anyone actually read his book??

If so maybe they can add something to the topic regarding what the offending paragraph etc. actually contained. How did he criticise the monarchy? Did he suggest the monarcjy was behind the coup?

What's the story.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/10623213/Excerpt...up-for-the-Rich

"A Coup for the Rich" by Giles Ji Ungpakorn.......???

Wasn't the whole thing around Thaksin that his political party was a party led by the already rich who only wanted the best for Thailand? The "best for Thailand" then turned out to be the "best for Shinawatra". Those redshirts seems to have a problem with democracy as well. The roots of the political problems in this country is pure greed. It's not about political goal or visions. Being a politician in this country is equal to becoming rich or richer by all the money one can make on corruption. I would like to know if there is a single Thai politician that is not corrupted. And it's not as easy as only getting the votes by saying "-I'm not corrupted". The citizens are not interested in that, especially not those on urban countryside since they give away their vote for a couple of hundred Bahts. Corruption is not only by the rich. It's also among the poor. It's the theme that is infecting this whole country. I truly can't see any way how this country one day would become corrupt-free. It's in the blood.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Ga-gai

[Plus]

Or, perhaps, he realised that there's no substance whatsoever in his allegations and so they are indefensible in court.

We are talking Lèse Majesté here, not libel. Proving that what you say is true is not a defense against lèse-majesté, and the court will not even let you try...

Or, so you think that LM protects the monarchy only from offensive comments, not from baseless accusations presented in the polite manner?

Giles has been going about this boogey man of political prosecution for ages, now there was a chance to prove that it exists, and he run away.

He didn't attend even the first hearing, didn't even listen to charges, yet screamed of unfair trial.

In the same book he writes about Sorayud's role in 1992 massacre, he has witness accounts and media stories as his sources. The LM passage, on the other hand, has no basis whatsoever. Academically it's just unacceptable, making up stories without any supporting evidence.

Perhaps this exposure of his intellectual bankrupcy would have been more damaging than fleeing to his reputation. Good for him.

Someone here said that he has "western" thinking. I don't know, things must have changed back there. In my days communist ideology and Marxist class struggles were dead and their ardent followers considered as freaks, in the same league as fruitarians and scientologists.

[Oberkommando]

On one hand the anti-LM proponents talk about multitude of charges. Ok, that's obvious. But then, why only Giles refuses to accept justice system here? Why all the others, Suwalak, who has been cleared by the courts 18 times, Sondhi who has been sentenced, Jakrapopb - why all the others accept courts authority and have faith in fair trial and justice system?

Giles is the only coward who ran away.

On the subject of his offence - you publish allegations against real people, you'd better be ready to defend them. You can't just wrtie that so and so murdered people, wiped out whole families, you can't just write that such and such was supporting some illegal acts.

If you do - be ready to support your allegations.

Thaksin has been suing people for saying a lot less, lots of others sued people for making baseless accusations. Why does Giles demand that royalty should be refused such legal protection? Why does Giles think he should be free to say whatever he wants without any responsibility.

Coward.

I don't blame him for doing a runner.

Da Torpedo was denied even basic legal representation for months while also being denied bail.

The game is rigged and the dice are loaded.

[KhaoNiaw]

Someone here said that he has "western" thinking. I don't know, things must have changed back there. In my days communist ideology and Marxist class struggles were dead and their ardent followers considered as freaks, in the same league as fruitarians and scientologists.

Marxist thought has never left the academic forum and in Giles' analysis there were valid points. However, he doesn't seem able to broaden and develop his thoughts to cover the realities of the situation and it leaves it all far too limited. Agree that he sometimes tries to base claims on evidence that is flimsy at best.

I was discussing Giles and his flight with a very earnest Brit at work, all for Giles and his fight for democracy, but who thought I was blackening the man's name by suggesting he was a Marxist! I shouldn't believe all that his enemies say about him!

Edited March 26, 2009 by KhaoNiaw

[yeti]

Or, perhaps, he realised that there's no substance whatsoever in his allegations and so they are indefensible in court.

We are talking Lèse Majesté here, not libel. Proving that what you say is true is not a defense against lèse-majesté, and the court will not even let you try...

Or, so you think that LM protects the monarchy only from offensive comments, not from baseless accusations presented in the polite manner?

Giles has been going about this boogey man of political prosecution for ages, now there was a chance to prove that it exists, and he run away.

He didn't attend even the first hearing, didn't even listen to charges, yet screamed of unfair trial.

In the same book he writes about Sorayud's role in 1992 massacre, he has witness accounts and media stories as his sources. The LM passage, on the other hand, has no basis whatsoever. Academically it's just unacceptable, making up stories without any supporting evidence.

Perhaps this exposure of his intellectual bankrupcy would have been more damaging than fleeing to his reputation. Good for him.

Someone here said that he has "western" thinking. I don't know, things must have changed back there. In my days communist ideology and Marxist class struggles were dead and their ardent followers considered as freaks, in the same league as fruitarians and scientologists.

It "protects" the monarchy from everything, even worthy criticism.

You say there was a chance to prove what he says: no there was not, as none of his arguments would have been admissible for a LM case.

The only way to prove that LM is a tool used to stifle freedom of expression would have been to be jailed. I understand him for not risking that.

[yumidesign]

Has anyone actually read his book??

If so maybe they can add something to the topic regarding what the offending paragraph etc. actually contained. How did he criticise the monarchy? Did he suggest the monarcjy was behind the coup?

What's the story.

my goodness you do not worry about facts and objective comments here just make up a story and go for it.......

[Johpa]

Running away to avoid presenting his case and accuse everyone else from distance? True coward.

Or, perhaps, he realised that there's no substance whatsoever in his allegations and so they are indefensible in court.

Or perhaps he realized there was no substance to the charges but since the charges were able to be filed there would clearly be no defense, no ability to disprove false charges.

But looking back, unlike politically powerful politicians accused of lese majeste, academics have chosen to exile and continue to publish rather than spend all their energies and finances fighting these trumped up political charges. Even Achaan Sulak Srivaraksa, a conservative royalist, was once forced to flee into exile on similarly trumped up political charges. Achaan Sulak did eventtually end his exile and returned and we can only hope that Achaan Giles will do the same in the future.

Achaan Giles continues to publish and make his case. There is a recent interview with him over at New Mandala. You might not agree with his politics, but one thing is for certain, he his no coward.

As for the cowards, it is Thai Visa where cowardice is displayed on a daily basis, from posters like myself who hide in anonymity to the admins who, for self-preservation of advertising income, prevent discussions that at least Achaan Giles has the kallam to take on directly. You want cowards, look in the freaking mirrors.

[Plus]

...there would clearly be no defense, no ability to disprove false charges.

Oh, another Giles style conjecture.

You might be surprised, but in real life there IS defence in Thai justice system.

I don't know what is "false" about the charges - Has he not published a book? Has he not mentioned the monarchy there? Has he not say that the King did something unconsitutional? What is false about it? It's all out there, black on white, links are all over the thread.

Real academics would have defended their theories and conclusions. Real academics would have presented sources and evidence to support their line of thought.

Marxism might be still alive in academia. Giles is also a political leader of a marxist party and most of the time he confuses his academic role with activist role.

Nutcase tried to arrest GW Bush once, for christsakes.

In the UK it would have been eccentic curiosity. One of those wacos who preach aliens and crap. Elsewhere he'd be a clear mental case.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Plus

[jackspratt]

In the UK it would have been eccentic curiosity. One of those wacos who preach aliens and crap. Elsewhere he'd be a clear mental case.

Maybe so, maybe not.

But what is he in Thailand (if he were here)? - someone liable to years in jail, for speaking his mind on a matter that is subject to repressive laws being used for political motives.

If I were in his shoes, I would go for the eccentric, waco (sic), mental case alternative.

[jayboy]

Elsewhere he'd be a clear mental case.

As to who exactly is showing signs of being a "mental case" (the absurd charges of cowardice, the denial of what the vast majority know to be true. the overexcited and shrill tone) I leave to forum readers to decide.It's odd how discussion of this sensitive subject prompts otherwise fairly normal people to take leave of their senses.

Hats off to Johpa by the way -a welcome and refreshing expression of honesty

[Plus]

My comment that Giles is mental was related to a post earlier that said he doesn't fit in Thailand because he has a western mindset, not to his book or current charges.

Another, unrelated point is that Giles, the seld proclaimed progressive leftist, has no qualms in sharing a stage with the likes of Chalerm, who was personally among the police, watching the crowds incited by Samak going on a rampage and murdering and burning students alive. Now they are both in the same political alliance. Marriage of convenience, huh?

What does all this tell about his political or academic integrity?

As for being coward - he is no Galileo, Galileo at least tried to defend himself.