10,000 Police, Soldiers, Security Officials Deployed To Keep Security At Government House

[henryalleman]

Someone mentioned "picking the lesser of two evils". We just have different opinions of who the "lesser evil" is. I for one, rather see the Democrats in Power for now.... and no, I am not right wing. I am a socialist and have been saying so many times openly.

Seeing the PAD advocating peaceful civil disobedience, (and pulling it off for the most part), created the spark for future Socialist movements in Thailand.

A step up in your posts - now you are using sophism.

As a self-labeled socialist, you really should think about your political theory in terms of what allies a socialist looks for in a under developed and transforming society (a hint - it is not the feudal forces, just because they are anti-capitalist does not make them your natural allies...). Socialism is not following people that carry the label of socialism, but advocate a political philosophy that is the exact opposite of what socialism stands for (in the "people's language - "you don' know shit").

As to civil disobedience for the most part - you completely ignore clear evidence of numerous acts of violence.

But if it suits your view, why let facts stand in the way?

Just proves that you haven't got a clue about what I am talking about, accusing me of using confusing or illogical arguments in an attempt to deceive. I'm about as plain as you can get, for anyone who has a brain (and I don't mean someone who has swallowed a dictionary ;-)

I have been a socialist since my teens. I have been a Union Member since my teens and I have been a social activist since my teens. I am surprised, that you don't see one of the fastest ways to socialism in this country (or maybe you see it and that is why you are arguing so hard, to stop things from moving in that direction) Somehow, I don't picture you as one who is fighting for the poor masses, but maybe I just don't understand you either.

I was active in a labour Union as an elected representative and fought against social injustice all my life, and I'm not a socialist. In fact socialism is only a word without meaning. I'm old enough to know that since the last 100 years the so called socialist parties betrayed the working class over and over again, and was taking over by some intellectual left wingers who have no clue about the needs of the working class. That's one of the reason that most socialist parties in Europe are in decline and losing election after election.

[kurtgruen]

.... That's one of the reason that most socialist parties in Europe are in decline and losing election after election.

Stupid me, and here I always thought that it's because people are becoming more selfish and greedy ;-)

[animatic]

Of course if Sae Daeng's little night time grenade attacks hadn't driven PAD from GH

And your evidence for this assertion is............. ?

The things I saw and heard in and around that time.

It wasn't rocket science to see it, if you cared to look

without the typical miasma of prepaid biases.

[Steve2UK]

Of course if Sae Daeng's little night time grenade attacks hadn't driven PAD from GH

And your evidence for this assertion is............. ?

The things I saw and heard in and around that time.

It wasn't rocket science to see it, if you cared to look

without the typical miasma of prepaid biases.

Saw/heard what things? And please translate "miasma of prepaid biases" - typical or otherwise.

[DaleBlue]

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has shortened his London visit and would return to Thailand on Friday evening instead of Saturday morning, government spokesman Panithan Wattayakorn said Thursday.

Mr Panithan said the early return has nothing to do with the red-shirt rallies.

Wake up !!!

Maybe he heard rumour that the Red will close the airport of Saturday, so he slip in early.

[Thai at Heart]

Interesting article

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...ed-shirts-wrath

THAI POLITICS

Don't underestimate the red shirts' wrath

[Plus]

It's the second time there's a rumor on TV talk show that Thaksin is dead.

Probably linked to no phone ins for two days.

[brahmburgers]

Interesting article

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion...ed-shirts-wrath

A well written and thought-out article.

Even so:

>>> the red-shirts saw how effective the yellows were in 2008, and are trying to emulate the same PM-ousting dynamic via public demonstrations. They're gaining some momentum, but not enough to get the changes they seek. Last evening, about 7:30 pm in C.Rai, there was a public viewing (at a downtown street intersection) of the TV coverage of the on-going Bkk demonstration. There were about 7 people watching, two wearing red shirts.

The night before, a similar street closing demonstration (TV watching) in early evening, downtown Chiang Mai. Roughly 16 people in attendance, about half wearing red shirts. Without money given to attend demonstrations, turn-out by the red-shirts is paltry

Thai people who want meaningful change - should gear up for the next elections. Do it at the ballot box. Hopefully, Thais will get an election preceded by meaningful campaigning - including civil debates and mature discussion of issues.

Edited April 3, 2009 by brahmburgers

[mc2]

instead of the phone ins I think he should get a team together and make a high quality, engaging 1 hour movie/documentry that puts forward the case for him and the reds. Then distribute it free around Thailand, translate in English too.

[Ricardo]

instead of the phone ins I think he should get a team together and make a high quality, engaging 1 hour movie/documentry that puts forward the case for him and the reds. Then distribute it free around Thailand, translate in English too.

This was certainly an effective tactic, for the PAD reporting corruption-allegations in the early days, they even got people to buy the VCDs so that it was self-financing. This helped increase the pressure on Thaksin, who was still trying to squelch the allegations, via the heavily-influenced normal media.

[hammered]

It's the second time there's a rumor on TV talk show that Thaksin is dead.

Probably linked to no phone ins for two days.

More likely thereis osme behind the scenes activity to quieten things down a bit. I have heard a few comments that he seemed drunk on one of the speeches. Dont know as I dont bother watching them myself. He certainly doesnt look very good at the moment. But stress wears people down physically.

[Plus]

I was wondering where Thitinan had disappeared.

Finally he emerges, contradicting himself at every step:

First he states:

"Thaksin ... is increasingly portrayed by the red shirts as a symbol and source of inspiration."

But then tries very hard to prove

"..the growing distance between the red shirts and the fugitive former premier"

Yeah, right.

Thitinan sincerely tries to raise red credibility and genuine grievances, but then admits that they don't have staying power and resilience without being paid.

Afterall, for all his effort, it's still hard to see reds as more than "Thaksin lackeys, manipulated and uninformed".

Thitinan himself writes from the perspective of "countless fence-sitters" and there's nothing new in his presentation. The problem is that there aren't any real "fence sitters" left, those who couldn't see themselves together with PAD still can't find a decent demo to go to, they still stick with Thaksin fans. They've been out there since the coup and the first UDD rallies, and they've been promising to shine through and grow out of Thaksin's slavery for years. Never happened, and probably never will.

For those lost souls the best course of action is to stop talking and form some political party to represent them. Who are they going to vote for if they force elections? Chalerm? Nearly three years of campaigning and they are still on Thaksin's coattails with no legs to stand on, nothing to show.

Pathetic really, for the amount of inspirational articles Thitinan produces, especially for the foreign press.

When PAD was in their shoes the members had Democrats to vote, and officially they campaigned for political reform. What to genuine "reds" propose as a solution? More of Thaksin?

Who can take them seriously?

[h90]

It's the second time there's a rumor on TV talk show that Thaksin is dead.

Probably linked to no phone ins for two days.

Maybe drunk, there are rumors that he drinks sometimes....

[Koo82]

Re. Chamlong - why would anyone dismiss his very public life as Bangkok Governor, leader of Phalang Dharma party, and leader of Santi Asoke sect, and instead define the man by actions thirty years ago no one remembers anymore?

From what I know, our government at least 10 years ago did not approve that Santi Asoke.

Ask any monk and see how they say.

Actually it's the other way round.

Sani Asoke doesn't approve of the majority of monks

as not being true to Budhisim.

But blames the leadership not the individuals.

Court decided that the thing Chamlong practices is not allowed to be called a religion in Thailand.

[Koo82]

Do the Rope-A-DOPE'S know that Kasit isn't with the Finance Ministry, but the Foreign Affairs Ministry?

Your post shows that you're too slow to catch what's going on.

The reds go there to tell Korn stop borrowing money from other countries. They say if 1st dek chai Abhisit and 2nd dek chai Korn can pay those loans, feel free to borrow, but the red government who will be next will not clear those loans.

Koo, you are a misguided woman and I still believe you have som comon sense, but now you lost your sense of reality completely. If a government make a debt or borrowing money abroad, every government after them will pay it back. And you even more unrealistic to believe that the next government will be red and lead by Thaksin.

You realy should wake up and accept that the Thaksin era is over, and will never come back again.

I accept that you say Khun T will never come back again. But he's coming back or not doesn't depend on you and other yellow posters in this forum.

Why do people talk about him every minute? Over? Yes. News about him is all over this forum.

Let me post again here for the 2nd time. Nuttawut joked:

Democrat Party Spokesman said on:

Monday: we're not scared of Khun Thaksin

Tuesday : we're not scared of Khun Thaksin

Wednesday: we're not scared of Khun Thaksin

Thursday: we're not scared of Khun Thaksin

Friday: we're not scared of Khun Thaksin

[cmsally]

I was wondering where Thitinan had disappeared.

Finally he emerges, contradicting himself at every step:

First he states:

"Thaksin ... is increasingly portrayed by the red shirts as a symbol and source of inspiration."

But then tries very hard to prove

"..the growing distance between the red shirts and the fugitive former premier"

Yeah, right.

Thitinan sincerely tries to raise red credibility and genuine grievances, but then admits that they don't have staying power and resilience without being paid.

Afterall, for all his effort, it's still hard to see reds as more than "Thaksin lackeys, manipulated and uninformed".

Thitinan himself writes from the perspective of "countless fence-sitters" and there's nothing new in his presentation. The problem is that there aren't any real "fence sitters" left, those who couldn't see themselves together with PAD still can't find a decent demo to go to, they still stick with Thaksin fans. They've been out there since the coup and the first UDD rallies, and they've been promising to shine through and grow out of Thaksin's slavery for years. Never happened, and probably never will.

For those lost souls the best course of action is to stop talking and form some political party to represent them. Who are they going to vote for if they force elections? Chalerm? Nearly three years of campaigning and they are still on Thaksin's coattails with no legs to stand on, nothing to show.

Pathetic really, for the amount of inspirational articles Thitinan produces, especially for the foreign press.

When PAD was in their shoes the members had Democrats to vote, and officially they campaigned for political reform. What to genuine "reds" propose as a solution? More of Thaksin?

Who can take them seriously?

Maybe you would care to provide a source for the quotes, so we could read in whole.

The only article I have seen recently, (not by Thitinan, but quotes Thitinan) is as follows:

IPS News - Back to Street Protests

The author of the article (Marwaan) is the FCCT President

[Plus]

The link is in the first post on this page. How could you miss it?

[Plus]

From that Markan Markar Markow [sp?] article:

‘’The stakes are the highest. Mentioning the two privy councillors means this is a new ball game,’’ says Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political scientist at Bangkok’s Chulalongkorn University. ‘’This is the first time that the privy councillors have been dragged into politics so openly.’’

Oh the art of story telling!

As if attack on Prem's house two years ago that left 200 policemen injured never happened and no one has ever heard that Prem was behind the coup.

For the rest of the country this "bombshell" was a flop. Chinese firecrackers have bigger effect.

[Steve2UK]

The link is in the first post on this page. How could you miss it?

[cmsally]

The link is in the first post on this page. How could you miss it?

Hardly obvious was it, considering the author wasn't mentioned in the original post. It would be simple etiquette to mention when extracting the quotes.

Incidentally I don't think the quotes and your summary provide a valid precis of the article.

It seems to suggest that there might be factions within the UDD that would hijack the attacks on the establishment.

It seems to suggest that these attacks are necessary to keep momentum up but it is in Thaksin's interests to take them so far.

Thitinan would seem to be aware that there are others who would like to go further.

Incidentally I would agree with him and I do see possibilities of a deal - but we may find Mr. Suthep being somewhat sidelined this time. I think he botched it the first time.

[h90]

Re. Chamlong - why would anyone dismiss his very public life as Bangkok Governor, leader of Phalang Dharma party, and leader of Santi Asoke sect, and instead define the man by actions thirty years ago no one remembers anymore?

From what I know, our government at least 10 years ago did not approve that Santi Asoke.

Ask any monk and see how they say.

Actually it's the other way round.

Sani Asoke doesn't approve of the majority of monks

as not being true to Budhisim.

But blames the leadership not the individuals.

Court decided that the thing Chamlong practices is not allowed to be called a religion in Thailand.

Is it? I thought it is just not accepted as Thai Buddhism. I don't think a court can decide what is allowed to be called religion and what not?

Or am I wrong?

[Plus]

Real thing?

>>>

Stop being so anal about not providing exact url with every quote.

My post was right below Thaiatheart's link to the article and I assumed members checked it out. And if they didn't, it's not my fault, don't complain about "not being obvious" if you skip on linked articles.

[Plus]

Officail members of the Sangha have a special legal status in Thailand, when Santi Asoke was excluded, they lost those rights, but that didn't make them non-religion or non-buddhists.

I think they can't collect alms like "real" monks, and they can't shave their eyebrows. On the other hand they can apply for passports and travel in and out of the country without asking for a special permission from Buddhist authorities.

[Wolfie]

What right you have: Privy Councillor Pichitr asked Thaksin

Privy Councillor Pichitr Kullavanijaya Friday asked former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra what rights he has to avoid his jail term.

"The former prime minister has been sentenced to imprisonment but he would not accept the punishment. I would like to know what privilege he cited [to avoid the jail term]," Pichitr said.

The privy councillor said Thaksin had also mentioned the monarchy improperly several times but he had not been taken legal actions against.

Pichitr also asked why Thaksin had not been taken legal action against for laundering his money in Cayman Islands.

He said the Privy Council was united regarding its stand towards Thaksin.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...r-Pichitr-asked

Not wise to make an enemy of the Privy council

[kurtgruen]

Re. Chamlong - why would anyone dismiss his very public life as Bangkok Governor, leader of Phalang Dharma party, and leader of Santi Asoke sect, and instead define the man by actions thirty years ago no one remembers anymore?

From what I know, our government at least 10 years ago did not approve that Santi Asoke.

Ask any monk and see how they say.

Actually it's the other way round.

Sani Asoke doesn't approve of the majority of monks

as not being true to Budhisim.

But blames the leadership not the individuals.

Court decided that the thing Chamlong practices is not allowed to be called a religion in Thailand.

I'm not a religious person (Personally, I think that Religion is the Opium of the People), but I have read a bit about Thai Buddhism and also a little about Santi Asoke, who Khun Chamlong is part of. If I was buddhist and had to choose between the two, I would be a Santi Asoke follower, as I believe follows the teachings of buddha more, than the "State Religion" does. Anyways, these are only my personal opinions and I know that religion is a very touchy subject in Thailand and I don't mean to be offensive in any way.

As for Khun Chamlong, as I mentioned, I am not religious at all, but I deeply respect the Man. His views differ from mine, on a few issues, but I think the man has a genuine concern for the poor and humanity. (as do some followers of many religions, a quality I do acknowlege and respect)

[Insight]

^^ A saying about stones and glass houses comes to mind. Where this tit-for-tat will end is anyone's guess.

(Edit - this is in response to Wolfie's posted article)

Edited April 3, 2009 by Insight

[Plus]

http://notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=755

Let's see how many people complain about this link, it extensively quotes Thitinan, too.

[Koo82]

He received his passport:

[sriracha john]

NICARAGUA

CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based upon the Constitution of Nicaragua.

BY BIRTH:

Child born within the territory of Nicaragua, regardless of the nationality of the parents.

Exception: Children of foreign officials serving international organizations or their own

countries, unless the parents choose to solicit Nicaraguan citizenship for the child.

Child born to unknown parents, found within the territory, until parentage becomes known.

BY DESCENT:

Child born abroad, one of whose parents is a citizen of Nicaragua.

Child born abroad, whose mother or father was formerly Nicaraguan, if the child applies for

citizenship after reaching the age of majority.

BY NATURALIZATION:

Child of foreign parents, born on a Nicaraguan boat or airplane, if the parents apply for

naturalization of the child.

Child born abroad, whose mother or father was formerly Nicaraguan.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP: NOT RECOGNIZED.

http://www.opm.gov/extra/investigate/IS-01.pdf

[sriracha john]

Child born to unknown parents, found within the territory, until parentage becomes known.

Was this the basis he used?