Child Abuse: Can The Police Deal With It?

[chuchok]

I hope you doubters are correct. I don't believe you are though. I've spoken to a few people that have lived here for many years. They all say the same thing ie:Typical MO and behavior of a kiddy fiddler and the extended Thai family.

Somebody mentioned that the poster had bad judgment picking a friend. Well, of all the incidents of this happening, is it not normally a person close to the family that nobody would suspect at all???

Please lets not lets bring our western ideas here. We are not in the west and MANY Thai people will react totally different to how we would.

Many Thai people simple do not have the education and/or understanding of this situation. This happens everyday in this country. How many of us have seen newspaper articles on a Thai abusing a Thai child. Bugger all. Yet it happens more here than it does in England ,Aussie or NZ. When it happens in our countries it is splashed all over the newspaper. Not here.

I knew a Thai lady in NZ that told me a story that left my jaw gaping open. She had a friend living in Thailand. This friend had a boyfriend that was “playing “ with her 14 year old daughter. The mother would not leave the guy or tell anybody about the problem, she just asked him to stop. She was frightened that if she told people ,the bloke would leave her or worse. Her excuse was that she loved him too much!!!!!! <deleted>? As terrible as this sounds, I guarantee that the mother was not well educated and had no idea the harm that was done to her daughter. I also know a lady who had sex with her brother( Alcohol and drugs were involved). This was 15 years ago and nothing was done by the family. Go figure??!!

To react in haste could mean a bullet in the head. How then would the poster be able to look after his wife, children and the poor wee souls that have been molested?

Hopefully Anonymo has taken some advice and has PM’d the people on this forum with a lot more knowledge than I could ever provide. Just because he asked for some advise does not mean he has to respond to any negative posts.

Everybody reacts differently to situations.Personally, if somebody doubted me if I was posting this, I would ask for there address so i could pay them a visit after the problem was over. Some people say nothing.We are all different.

Edited January 22, 2005 by chuchok

[Darknight]

too many gaps, all sound trollish to me, if you google it there are many ways how you can deal with it, why ask here, why has it been going on for so long 

where's darknight 

I'm here, but based on the info i have, there no reasons to assume that anonymus is a troll.

Carry on

[bina]

chuchok,

i agree with you; common and non reported, rather like many ethnic groups in israel where family honour is super important...

i have a man thai friend working in the states and the past few months he has been going crazy: his ex wife has remarried and the daughter (whom this man has only known for one year since he works as migrant worker overseas for 8 yrs w/few breaks in between)who has lived with mom's grandma, is now to live w/mom and new husband and my friend is worried about new husband molesting his 10 yr old..... he brings up his worry constantly when talking with me

up til now the mother has also worked in bangkok and grandma raised Noi; he says this scenario is common and non reported....outsiders should not interfere

my friend here in israel is worried about his kids as wife has told him of man lurking and peeking at evening hours in their house so wife has moved in to mom's house w/kids

i asked why not complain to puu yai baan? he said family will deal by itself....

when in small village near udon thani saw young slightly retarded girl in fields and friend said "pooying mai di" , why... because she 'goes off with the men" (obviously abusing her ), why dont people do an ything??? do what? was the answer..... and the list goes on.....

sometimes have to do things more sublte ways than the american/british hero rushing in to the rescue which might be more damaging in long run....

do gooder social work interference in cultures not your own can cause much more damage and trauma than it seems to you as a rescuer at the time......

the whole reason there is a forum is so poeple can discuss issues with , presumably, english speakers , and this guy probably doesnt have access to other people that are from his background as opposed to thai, so he checks out with folks here before rushing around and making a mess... a sound strategy

[chuchok]

Bina,

Anonymous has done the right thing and removed this person out of the house,so evrybody is hopefully safe. I still hope he gets sorted though.

I read a while ago that Mahidol University did research on this problem.There data came from the Thai mafia..err.... I mean Police.

In Thailand a women is raped on average every hour and 2 children under the age of 15 are raped every hour.

This is what is reported,so who knows what the real figure is.

[kreon]

I hope you doubters are correct. I don't believe you are though. I've spoken to a few people that have lived here for many years. They all say the same thing ie:Typical MO and behavior of a kiddy fiddler and the extended Thai family.

Somebody mentioned that the poster had bad judgment picking a friend. Well, of all the incidents of this happening, is it not normally a person close to the family that nobody would suspect at all???

Please lets not lets bring our western ideas here. We are not in the west and MANY Thai people will react totally different to how we would.

Many Thai people simple do not have the education  and/or understanding of this situation. This happens everyday in this country. How many of us have seen newspaper articles on a Thai abusing a Thai child. Bugger all. Yet it happens more here than it does in England ,Aussie or NZ. When it happens  in our countries it is splashed all over the newspaper. Not here.

I knew a Thai lady in NZ that told me a story that left my jaw gaping open. She had a friend living in Thailand. This friend had a boyfriend that was “playing “ with her 14 year old daughter. The mother would not  leave the guy or tell anybody about the problem, she just asked him to stop. She was frightened that if she told people ,the bloke would leave her or worse. Her excuse was that she loved him too much!!!!!! <deleted>? As terrible as this sounds, I guarantee that the mother was not well educated and had no idea the harm that was done to her daughter. I also know a lady who had sex with her brother( Alcohol and drugs were involved). This was 15 years ago and nothing was done by the family.  Go figure??!!

To react in haste could mean a bullet in the head. How then would the poster be able to look after his wife, children and the poor wee souls that have been molested?

Hopefully Anonymo has taken  some advice and has PM’d the people on this forum with a lot more knowledge than I could ever provide. Just because he asked for some advise does not mean he has to respond to any negative posts.

Everybody reacts differently to situations.Personally, if somebody doubted me if I was posting this, I would ask for there address so i could pay them a visit after the problem was over. Some people say nothing.We are all different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about this poor bugger, 65+ old farmer, who after many years of warnings, killed his own son, who was continously raping his wife

now here is a soluton to the problem for you

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I hope you doubters are correct. I don't believe you are though. I've spoken to a few people that have lived here for many years. They all say the same thing ie:Typical MO and behavior of a kiddy fiddler and the extended Thai family.

Somebody mentioned that the poster had bad judgment picking a friend. Well, of all the incidents of this happening, is it not normally a person close to the family that nobody would suspect at all???

Please lets not lets bring our western ideas here. We are not in the west and MANY Thai people will react totally different to how we would.

Many Thai people simple do not have the education  and/or understanding of this situation. This happens everyday in this country. How many of us have seen newspaper articles on a Thai abusing a Thai child. Bugger all. Yet it happens more here than it does in England ,Aussie or NZ. When it happens  in our countries it is splashed all over the newspaper. Not here.

I knew a Thai lady in NZ that told me a story that left my jaw gaping open. She had a friend living in Thailand. This friend had a boyfriend that was “playing “ with her 14 year old daughter. The mother would not  leave the guy or tell anybody about the problem, she just asked him to stop. She was frightened that if she told people ,the bloke would leave her or worse. Her excuse was that she loved him too much!!!!!! &lt;deleted&gt;? As terrible as this sounds, I guarantee that the mother was not well educated and had no idea the harm that was done to her daughter. I also know a lady who had sex with her brother( Alcohol and drugs were involved). This was 15 years ago and nothing was done by the family.  Go figure??!!

To react in haste could mean a bullet in the head. How then would the poster be able to look after his wife, children and the poor wee souls that have been molested?

Hopefully Anonymo has taken  some advice and has PM’d the people on this forum with a lot more knowledge than I could ever provide. Just because he asked for some advise does not mean he has to respond to any negative posts.

Everybody reacts differently to situations.Personally, if somebody doubted me if I was posting this, I would ask for there address so i could pay them a visit after the problem was over. Some people say nothing.We are all different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about this poor bugger, 65+ old farmer, who after many years of warnings, killed his own son, who was continously raping his wife

now here is a soluton to the problem for you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is the " old farmer " available for a contract ?

[meemiathai]

Rav, The Doctors comment is "almost" typical. ie: don't get involved, don't get anybody to lose face and the problem will just go away. sad but true.

Not in my (Thai) wifes opinion.

Same mine, but the above does happen and I hazard a guess that it happens more than we really care to think about. I also asked my wife what she would do and she just drew her finger across her throat.... She also agreed that many Thai people will just sweep things like this under the carpet to save face. I asked her why and I got "......because they are stupid and they do not understand the harm they are doing!"

Your wife is smart. I think she has describe the exact situation here.

"......because they are stupid and they do not understand the harm they are doing!".

I really hope things would be brought to justice here. And examples could be set to warn people from committing the same crimes.

There is still a long way for the Thais to learn to deal with these sorts of issues appropriately.

[astral]

Bina,

Anonymous has done the right thing and removed this person out of the house,so evrybody is hopefully safe. I still hope he gets sorted though.

I read  a while ago that Mahidol University did research on this problem.There data came from the Thai mafia..err.... I mean Police.

In Thailand a women is raped on average every hour and 2 children under the age of 15 are raped every hour.

This is what is reported,so who knows what the real figure is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If this is the case, then why are there not more convictions of Thais for such offenses?

[bina]

Bina,

Anonymous has done the right thing and removed this person out of the house,so evrybody is hopefully safe. I still hope he gets sorted though.

I read  a while ago that Mahidol University did research on this problem.There data came from the Thai mafia..err.... I mean Police.

In Thailand a women is raped on average every hour and 2 children under the age of 15 are raped every hour.

This is what is reported,so who knows what the real figure is.

astral thats not my quote that's chuchok answering me

and obviously why should there be convictions if the families do not cooperate.... did you know that in israeli until recently, young victims of rape had to enter the room w/the perp and touch him and say : this is the man// now how would you convince a victim or family to do that ; in jewish orthodox homes the same scenerio... the family never never gets help neither does the child... just taken care of within the family or for the most part ignored. (lots and lots pf pedophilia among closed orthodox communities but never never never talked about until really really recently....(the children are told that they must be 'seducing' the perp in some way

(i worked for two years as house mother for problem children and dealt with some of this stuff, and here also, family would not come forward, fathers treated daughters as 'breaking family honour' even if girl was raped..... israel is very similar to thailand in that respect, only in past 10-15 yrs things are changing.... but murder based on family honour is still carried out.... as are 'families will take care of problem or not' attitude)

Edited January 23, 2005 by bina

[chuchok]

Astral, this is a slightly edited post from Kat on the subject of prostitution.While slightly off topic, it does give a good idea of the numbers though.

Perhaps kat can let us know why there are too few convictions on rape here.

There is human trafficking in America, in Australia, in Europe, as well as self-selected prostitutes.  I do not advocate viewing all women who work as prositutes as victims.  This is condescending in my view, however, we should be aware of the lack of choices and circumstances that have driven many women to make that "choice".  For some women, it is just a high-paying job in which they exert a gread deal of control.  I think this is the exception in a global sense.

In Asia, without a doubt, you simply cannot separate the prior circumstances regarding a girl's family and status in her decision to become a prostitute.  As I said and backedup in another thread, there is a well established connection between prior sexual abuse and a girls foray into prostitution.  In S.E. Asia, prior sexual abuse accounts for 30-50% of girl children's experience (UN ESCAP 2001/2, among others;  they interviewed more than 10,000 children in mainland S.E. Asia).  However, there is a low report rate of abuse and rape.  There are also ancedotal accounts of girls that have been abused by their families and people in their village before being sent off to brothels as the "chosen" one.  Some people here do not view sexual abuse as such if the girl is no longer a virgin.  It doesn't take a great leap to see a possible significant association between this and prostitution here, expecially given Thailand's past high profile in child prostitution not very long ago.

However, how one thinks of "abuse" or "victimization" is cultural, and has to do with how one views variable sexual norms of a given place.  Therefore, place does matter in terms of enforcement and attitudes.

Already, I am going on too long.  One other thing.  The statistic of 200,000 women is an old statistic that originated with the police approximately around 1992-94.  It was underestimated then (because of not wanting to reveal the real source of the underground economy - read bribes -, and because they surveyed entertainment venues.  It is much higher.  Without a doubt, the number of freelance prostitutes has increased exponentially, and this is much harder to gauge or control.  Therefore, many suspect that the number of child prostitutes has simply shifted after the crackdown of 1996 from entertainment venues to freelance.

If you want my sources, I'll gladly give them to you but they are scrolled on a notepad that is not with me at the moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Tornado]

Some questions for you Anonymo.

How far do you live from the home of this guy? condo, apartment? how many in the block / street?

Could you actually enter this abode again, either welcomed or not? could you get privacy for 3 minutes?

Are you financial enough to buy a few things = 10,000 baht?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tornado

The family live in a compound (I'm sure you know the style) with many immediate and extended family members - this includes the adult male in question. Only the immediate family are aware of the situation.

I still appear to be respected by the family, they have nearly all agreed that I am right but that I do not understand the loss of face that the family will endure if this is made public.

I visit the family home almost every day even though the atmosphere is very uncomfortable, I do not feel threatened.

I can manage 10,000.

Where is this going?

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I imagine Tornado is thinking of a HIT.

And... sorry to say this.... but you are sounding like a TROLL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, a troll eh A hit?

Anonymo, you didnt answer my questions as I asked them and in context what I was alluding to, it was important you did.

anyway, what I was stumbling about trying to assertain was if you could place a video camera in the house legally by being welcome/getting permission by another occupant, you then would have some proof to back up your allegations.

That was another reason I asked how far you lived from the family as a remote camera can be fitted within minutes and you need to be in range to record this atrocity.

I realise the children should be removed as quick as possible, but without proof you look like a trouble maker.

Anyway, I will steer clear of any more trolling and let Ravisher the casino manager help you.

Good Luck.

[Neeranam]

That was another reason I asked how far you lived from the family as a remote camera can be fitted within minutes and you need to be in range to record this atrocity.

Seems like a good idea to me.

[kat]

Anonymo:

I PM'ed you with a list of numbers. Please let us know how it goes.

Chuchok:

Very thoughtful comments.

Edit: One other thing - an answer to your question above: Compensation.

And of course, the other dynamics which were already discussed.

Edited January 23, 2005 by kat

[bina]

ravisher u are such a cynic.....and if it was a troll, at least we discussed something more wieghty than who has the 1000 post etc....... :

[anonymo]

A large ISO 9000+ Hospital should have this sort of facility. Probably in their Peadatrics department.

My ex dealt with this sort of situation. When children start talking about specifics in this subject, thet obviuosly they have not normally been exposed to it is a "Very strong sign", firstly they have knowledge you weld never expect them to have and secondly, they are trying to "Talk themselves better"

Good luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks - I think my doctor is in an ISO900X hospital - making the call now.

Would you be prepared to tell me if your ex was able to deal with the situation succesfully?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And YOUR doctor said don't get involved? Great doctor you have! So you are trying another 'doctor' not another hospital??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have found a paediatrician who seems to be sensitive to the situation and sensible in approach.

[anonymo]

I’m afraid to say this Anonymo, I think your doctors advice “Don’t get involved” may be the best.

The family is dealing with this in their way from what you are saying and the pervert concerned is temporarily, hopefully permanently, out of the scene now. He too will have lost a lot of face and may wish to stay out of the scene in the future.

I also see the families concerns for saving face. This means a lot to them and in some situations, if they feel you are interfering and causing that loss of face to happen, your good intentions/commendable actions may turn them against you. Even though you are married and part of the family, you are still not “Thai”.

Your comments “I visit the family home almost every day even though the atmosphere is very uncomfortable, I do not feel threatened.” suggest to me the family want to deal with this problem their way.

By all means get some help from a counselor for the children involved, but I am concerned if the authorities do get involved, the situation will get out of hand and the children will suffer.

May I suggest you sit back for a while, calm down a bit and see what action the family takes before jumping in head first.

Whatever you decide, I wish the best for the children.

NL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The family do seem to have dealt with the removal of the offender.

I have pretty much decided that if he remains removed then I will not involve the authorities.

My main preoccupation now is to have the girls cared for physically but most importantly phsychologically.

[anonymo]

Well in all fairness to 'anonymous' this is a fairly heavy thing to have on your chest and apeaking to other falang in a forum like this and asking for help may be the way he deals with it emotionally, plus getting some advice at the same time.

As for the fact he was 'lurking' on the forum he may well have just been online but not actually at the computer, as I am often.

I am hoping to see this resolved while following the situation and action is now definatly called for so please tell us what you have achieved so far anon and what your next step is?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Shola - progress is being made (I hope you can see this from my other replies) and I think that after today I will not be posting any more in this thread but there are a few people who I will remain in contact with as their advice and information provided has been invaluable.

[anonymo]

I hope you doubters are correct. I don't believe you are though. I've spoken to a few people that have lived here for many years. They all say the same thing ie:Typical MO and behavior of a kiddy fiddler and the extended Thai family.

Somebody mentioned that the poster had bad judgment picking a friend. Well, of all the incidents of this happening, is it not normally a person close to the family that nobody would suspect at all???

Please lets not lets bring our western ideas here. We are not in the west and MANY Thai people will react totally different to how we would.

Many Thai people simple do not have the education  and/or understanding of this situation. This happens everyday in this country. How many of us have seen newspaper articles on a Thai abusing a Thai child. Bugger all. Yet it happens more here than it does in England ,Aussie or NZ. When it happens  in our countries it is splashed all over the newspaper. Not here.

I knew a Thai lady in NZ that told me a story that left my jaw gaping open. She had a friend living in Thailand. This friend had a boyfriend that was “playing “ with her 14 year old daughter. The mother would not  leave the guy or tell anybody about the problem, she just asked him to stop. She was frightened that if she told people ,the bloke would leave her or worse. Her excuse was that she loved him too much!!!!!! &lt;deleted&gt;? As terrible as this sounds, I guarantee that the mother was not well educated and had no idea the harm that was done to her daughter. I also know a lady who had sex with her brother( Alcohol and drugs were involved). This was 15 years ago and nothing was done by the family.  Go figure??!!

To react in haste could mean a bullet in the head. How then would the poster be able to look after his wife, children and the poor wee souls that have been molested?

Hopefully Anonymo has taken  some advice and has PM’d the people on this forum with a lot more knowledge than I could ever provide. Just because he asked for some advise does not mean he has to respond to any negative posts.

Everybody reacts differently to situations.Personally, if somebody doubted me if I was posting this, I would ask for there address so i could pay them a visit after the problem was over. Some people say nothing.We are all different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Chuchok.

[Jockstar]

Hey anonymo. I havent posted in this thread but have been following it. You say that the family have removed this guy from the family unit. Where is he now? You say that you are happy with that. This is good. But please dont let this go. Tell the authorities. He WILL do it again. Get this sicko locked up if possible. I work with kids and if i ever thought anyone was doing things to them. God help the fiddler. Anyway mate look after these kids. They will love you so much for it. But i would try and get this ######er done. Either by the law or other means. Good luck mate. Do let us all know how things go from here.

[anonymo]

Hey anonymo. I havent posted in this thread but have been following it. You say that the family have removed this guy from the family unit. Where is he now? You say that you are happy with that. This is good. But please dont let this go. Tell the authorities. He WILL do it again. Get this sicko locked up if possible. I work with kids and if i ever thought anyone was doing things to them. God help the fiddler. Anyway mate look after these kids. They will love you so much for it. But i would try and get this ######er done. Either by the law or  other means. Good luck mate. Do let us all know how things go from here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your post Jockstar.

The offender is still in the same town which is not acceptable, if I did say that I was happy with it then I mis-typed.

My priority was to have him moved away from the immediate vicinity and focus on the girls - I have no idea what psychological effect this experience will have on them, this is beyond anything that I have ever had to deal with before, but I do know that they need help to deal with it and I am working hard to find the right people to do this.

Once I am happy that all has been done that can be done to help the girls then I will get on with dealing with the offender.

The situation is complicated - no surprise there - there are many factors that I have not posted and find hard to detail. Having said earlier in this discussion that I will not post again on this subject I now think that I will spend some time in the future trying to explain the whole situation - I'm sure that the people who have helped me, the doubting Thomas's and other people finding themselves in a similar situation in the future may appreciate as full a story as I am able to provide.

Thanks for your good wishes.

[Jockstar]

Hey anonymo. I havent posted in this thread but have been following it. You say that the family have removed this guy from the family unit. Where is he now? You say that you are happy with that. This is good. But please dont let this go. Tell the authorities. He WILL do it again. Get this sicko locked up if possible. I work with kids and if i ever thought anyone was doing things to them. God help the fiddler. Anyway mate look after these kids. They will love you so much for it. But i would try and get this ######er done. Either by the law or  other means. Good luck mate. Do let us all know how things go from here.

Thanks for your post Jockstar.

The offender is still in the same town which is not acceptable, if I did say that I was happy with it then I mis-typed.

My priority was to have him moved away from the immediate vicinity and focus on the girls - I have no idea what psychological effect this experience will have on them, this is beyond anything that I have ever had to deal with before, but I do know that they need help to deal with it and I am working hard to find the right people to do this.

Once I am happy that all has been done that can be done to help the girls then I will get on with dealing with the offender.

The situation is complicated - no surprise there - there are many factors that I have not posted and find hard to detail. Having said earlier in this discussion that I will not post again on this subject I now think that I will spend some time in the future trying to explain the whole situation - I'm sure that the people who have helped me, the doubting Thomas's and other people finding themselves in a similar situation in the future may appreciate as full a story as I am able to provide.

Thanks for your good wishes.

You're a good man. look after those kids. Good luck mate.

[ZOVOX]

Hey anonymo. I havent posted in this thread but have been following it. You say that the family have removed this guy from the family unit. Where is he now? You say that you are happy with that. This is good. But please dont let this go. Tell the authorities. He WILL do it again. Get this sicko locked up if possible. I work with kids and if i ever thought anyone was doing things to them. God help the fiddler. Anyway mate look after these kids. They will love you so much for it. But i would try and get this ######er done. Either by the law or  other means. Good luck mate. Do let us all know how things go from here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your post Jockstar.

The offender is still in the same town which is not acceptable, if I did say that I was happy with it then I mis-typed.

My priority was to have him moved away from the immediate vicinity and focus on the girls - I have no idea what psychological effect this experience will have on them, this is beyond anything that I have ever had to deal with before, but I do know that they need help to deal with it and I am working hard to find the right people to do this.

Once I am happy that all has been done that can be done to help the girls then I will get on with dealing with the offender.

The situation is complicated - no surprise there - there are many factors that I have not posted and find hard to detail. Having said earlier in this discussion that I will not post again on this subject I now think that I will spend some time in the future trying to explain the whole situation - I'm sure that the people who have helped me, the doubting Thomas's and other people finding themselves in a similar situation in the future may appreciate as full a story as I am able to provide.

Thanks for your good wishes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anonymo, i think you've handle the situation well and done the right thing in a very difficult situation. Your priority now is the well being of the kids. As for going after the individual further, in the west, i wouldn't hesitate to go to the authorities, but here in Thailand it is different - i wouldn't do anything unless you know the right people to protect yourself.

[kat]

.....and if it was a troll, at least we discussed something more wieghty than who has the 1000 post etc....... :

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Ravisher: I tend to agree with Bina's quote above. I also do not think Anonymo is a troll. The fact that any poster is not on for 24-36 hours simply means that they are most likely out taking care of other things. And in Anonymo's case, there were obviously quite a lot of things that needed immediate attention.

Hey anonymo. I havent posted in this thread but have been following it. You say that the family have removed this guy from the family unit. Where is he now? You say that you are happy with that. This is good. But please dont let this go. Tell the authorities. He WILL do it again. Get this sicko locked up if possible. I work with kids and if i ever thought anyone was doing things to them. God help the fiddler. Anyway mate look after these kids. They will love you so much for it. But i would try and get this ######er done. Either by the law or  other means. Good luck mate. Do let us all know how things go from here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for your post Jockstar.

The offender is still in the same town which is not acceptable, if I did say that I was happy with it then I mis-typed.

My priority was to have him moved away from the immediate vicinity and focus on the girls - I have no idea what psychological effect this experience will have on them, this is beyond anything that I have ever had to deal with before, but I do know that they need help to deal with it and I am working hard to find the right people to do this.

Once I am happy that all has been done that can be done to help the girls then I will get on with dealing with the offender.

The situation is complicated - no surprise there - there are many factors that I have not posted and find hard to detail. Having said earlier in this discussion that I will not post again on this subject I now think that I will spend some time in the future trying to explain the whole situation - I'm sure that the people who have helped me, the doubting Thomas's and other people finding themselves in a similar situation in the future may appreciate as full a story as I am able to provide.

Thanks for your good wishes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anonymo, please do keep us informed. And I think I included a similar plea in my PM, because these cases are important to document, and file in the collective memory so that people understand how cases like this exist.

I'd also like to add, that although the tendency toward violence is understandable, don't do it. You are a foreigner here, you will never win on that road. If you somehow are removed from the situation, it will be even worse for those girls.

I'm not a psychologist, but it is common knowledge among anyone that knows anything about sexual abuse that there are long-term rammifications. Trust and physical boundaries have been violated. If they do not receive good counseling or support, they would grow up thinking it's their fault, develop very distorted or unhealthy physical boundaries, learn to suppress and disassociate very core elements of their personal selves, and most likely have serious intimacy issues for the rest of their adult lives. And no, it is not a coincidence that many women involved in sex work also display many of these characteristics. There is a well-established link between prior sexual abuse and sex work.

[bina]

anonono:

i also live in a very small village situation which has had more than one case of sexual or other abuse... the perps still live here as they are members and members of extended families, and removing one person destroys the delicate makeup and attitude of their family members etc.... in both cases, social workers were used (those that are used to dealing w/kibbutz culture, social aspects etc).... the perps were both one time offenders( one mentally ill and now has to be accompanied by guardian 24 ours a day i.e. parents or case will go to police-- that is our 'puu yai baan's' stipulation; the other is a father (well spoken well liked bla bla in the beginning the older folks were in major denial that this wasnt happening. )

the sanctions that the other village members did both tacit and explicit are punishment for every minute of this man's life, but also for his family and his children ..

as kat knows, these situations are very sensitive and our first reaction is not always the best reaction...every kibbutz has a person who is esentially the 'puu yai baan' and he/she handles each situation according to what needs to be done....not always to my american western tastes

never ideal especially for the victims; but here the victims and the perps get professional help from the community... have some cases where family has up and left which is traumatic since we are 'closed' communities and it isnt just moving house, but leaving a life style, extended family etc....

as kat has said, every culture has its own aspects and ways sometimes tacit and subtle for dealing with things....

well rather long, things are always simpler to those not involved directly or dont have all the details in the picture..it just seems so similar to where i live in a small intense community.. so good luck there is always a n arguement about 'the good of the children' between removing them or the perp from the house vs. remaining as a 'family' unit of one sort or an other.... any way......

[jef]

On a more serious note... where is anonymo? I don't see him here for about 30 hours...

Wonder if he's keeping us wondering... how this saga will end... or if he met a nasty end himself? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I was anonymo I would not post here anymore.

Please Ravisher, tell me with what did you help the two little girls improving their wellbeing?

As a little boy I was a victim off a paedophile, any action to remove a suspected person from doing more harm is positive.

[sriracha john]

Not normaly a cyinc... but, you are 100% right about this being more interesting. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

          I may be wrong, but still something does not gell for me. Perhaps it was in the 'answers' anonymo 'chose' to answer and those he chose to 'ignore'.

But I have to be true to myself and to you guys, and say what I think at the time. And, I am still not convinced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There it is... based on posting times there is the irrefutable, overwhelming, and conclusive evidence that Ravisher is the one that is a troll. It was almost a full 27 hours between his postings.

In the future, Ravisher, consider doing us ALL a favor and keep your snap judgements to yourself... WE don't need YOU to be so "true" to us, ok?

[Darknight]

Not normaly a cyinc... but, you are 100% right about this being more interesting. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

          I may be wrong, but still something does not gell for me. Perhaps it was in the 'answers' anonymo 'chose' to answer and those he chose to 'ignore'.

But I have to be true to myself and to you guys, and say what I think at the time. And, I am still not convinced.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There it is... based on posting times there is the irrefutable, overwhelming, and conclusive evidence that Ravisher is the one that is a troll. It was almost a full 27 hours between his postings.

In the future, Ravisher, consider doing us ALL a favor and keep your snap judgements to yourself... WE don't need YOU to be so "true" to us, ok?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here , Here....

As this thing has run it's course and is sliding down hill.

anymo can open another one on the current or updated situation.

/topic closed