Legalising prostitution

[singa-traz]

BangkokPost Article: Public to have their say on legalising prostitution

Do you think they will be able to Legalise Prostitution ?

I'm not looking it from a morale perspective, but from a crime fighting perspective:

- make it legal (to cut corruption opportunities)

- regulate and control the trade (Like in Singapore, for example)

- get the Tax $$$ from the business

Maybe with the additional Tax income, they can pay decent wage to the police, so they can reduce their "monthly quota" ...

[buasaard]

I'm in favour but with stiff controls, and stiff punishments for breaking the law.

Another fear, is that there would always be the underground world. Brothels without any form of control, exploitation of the girls. Corrupted police that turn blind.

It is also not easy on the privacy side, think for instance when some girl ask for the passport, or the ID card what do they write on profession? Prostitute?

Bar girls, how would be considered? presently they are not exploited (most of them), which status would they have?

How to organize the bars (as clubs?), because it is unthinkable they regulate prostitution and leave bars outdoor like now.

Organize "red light districts"?

And how many of them are ready to pay taxes?

Provided that all problems would be satisfactorily solved, I'm in favour.

[samuisam]

Great idea - will help stop the women from being exploited with the right laws and union rules in place.

I know it is legal in USA (Nevada), Holland, and Australia and many others - where else?

It was legal in Hawaii until the late 1940's.  But they adopted stringent rules to keep the women downtrodden including making it illegal for them to own land, cars, or even put their money in a bank!

The best law I know of is the one they have in Australia which says that NO MEN MAY BE ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED IN THE PROSTITUTION OF WOMEN EXCEPT AS CUSTOMERS!  (No pimps, brothel owners are women).

[wolf5370]

I think it is the only way to go if the present government are truly intent on cleaning up Thailand's international image. If you close the go-go bars, it goes underground, prices go up, bribes go up, corruption increases. If you make it legal, and do it properly, the 'customers' will move to the safer, cleaner, legal envirnment. Sure, you'll always get the purvies that want that 'something extra', and there will be illegal establishments supplying them, but that, hopefully, will be the minority.

I think a couple of comments from before are excellent - recycle the taxes into the police as wage increases and modernisation to lessen the effect of corruption and the 'no pimps' bit. Make them (the girls) self employed and the legal 'brothels' merely licensed rented accomodation - i.e. they only earn on the rooms, not the girls.

Legalising prositution does so many things. It reduces corruption, allows safety checks (both medical and security), raises taxes, lowers police/court load, improves the image of the country (no more freelances etc), takes the earnings from organised crime, removes the associated risk of 'underworld' dealings from customer and girl, makes it easier to check for illegal sex-workers (children/enforced/alien etc), reduces associated crime (cons, theft, drugs etc), reduces disease (enforced condoms etc) and gives an easy way for establishments/ girls to have licenses revoked and thus be barred from working...the list is endless.

ID cards and visa/passport applications can simply say "Entertainer" or some such thing. :cool:

[parryhandy]

I think it is the only way to go if the present government are truly intent on cleaning up Thailand's international image. If you close the go-go bars, it goes underground, prices go up, bribes go up, corruption increases. If you make it legal, and do it properly, the 'customers' will move to the safer, cleaner, legal envirnment. Sure, you'll always get the purvies that want that 'something extra', and there will be illegal establishments supplying them, but that, hopefully, will be the minority.

I think a couple of comments from before are excellent - recycle the taxes into the police as wage increases and modernisation to lessen the effect of corruption and the 'no pimps' bit. Make them (the girls) self employed and the legal 'brothels' merely licensed rented accomodation - i.e. they only earn on the rooms, not the girls.

Legalising prositution does so many things. It reduces corruption, allows safety checks (both medical and security), raises taxes, lowers police/court load, improves the image of the country (no more freelances etc), takes the earnings from organised crime, removes the associated risk of 'underworld' dealings from customer and girl, makes it easier to check for illegal sex-workers (children/enforced/alien etc), reduces associated crime (cons, theft, drugs etc), reduces disease (enforced condoms etc) and gives an easy way for establishments/ girls to have licenses revoked and thus be barred from working...the list is endless.

ID cards and visa/passport applications can simply say "Entertainer" or some such thing. :cool:

excellent points and agree on most. but i fear like most things it will not be done properly and legalising it would be used as a way of benefiting certain people.ie what buildings are used, how many, where etc. also financially would the girls be better off ? cant see how bar girls would be better off than they are now.

but agree if done properley with a lot of  forethought and proactive discussion would be the right way to go.maybe looking at places like holland etc first to see how / if their system works and if something similar could be applied to thailand.

[tutsiwarrior]

Anyone that would think that legalising prostitution in Thailand would be more than lip service and less than the creation of another layer of bureaucracy is crazy. The girls probably get better care from their pimps (bar and massage parlor owners) than the government could ever provide. I would say let the proposals be scrutinized by the workers themselves and not allow a corrupt government to further victimize them. Any of you that think that the police will emerge as paradigm of integrity as a result are nuts.

This ain't Amsterdam...it's SE Asia for f**ks sake...

F**king ludicrous...

[Mighty Mouse]

There is a difference between "legalising" and "decriminalising" prostitution.

When you legalise it you are allowing all forms of prostitution to take place anywhere, everywhere and at any time. There is no control.

To decriminalise it you are setting up certain areas where prostitution is allowed but where certain controls are put in place.

For example, you would not allow a brothel to be set up near a school, a place of worship, a residential area etc. etc.

Places deemed to be suitable for prostitution, could be certain massage parlours, go go bars with short time rooms etc.These are licenced by the authorities. Licencee's are required to meet all health care regulations. Such regulations cover, amongst other things, cleanliness of premises and health checks for workers, protection for customers.

Corruption in these places is non existent. There are no pimps.

Taxes are paid.

Any form of prostitution operating outside of these licenced areas, remains illegal.

Prostitution is the worlds oldest profession. To consider legalising it is admitting that it is impossible to stop - a fact.

The Government is saying, "We can't eradicate prostitution so we will do nothing."

To decriminalise it is also admitting that it is impossible to stop BUT by allowing the profession to trade in certain areas with strict controls in place, some form of protection is offered to the community.  The Government saves face.

[buasaard]

ID cards and visa/passport applications can simply say "Entertainer" or some such thing

I think should be more generic."Entertainer" would be too specific and everybody would know what it means.Then also a strict privacy law (but maybe I'm asking too much).

[singa-traz]

There is a difference between "legalising" and "decriminalising" prostitution.

This is what I mean and understand by Legalizing. Right, I should have added "and Regulating".

This is what is done for example in Singapore.

[Butterfly]

Bad idea. Who is going to win in this game ? not the girls, not the farangs but only the government. Eitheir you ban it or you close your eyes on it. Is the government a new pimp ?

make it legal will kill the fun of out of it and makes it too professional and less amateurish. This will also "legalised" the sex tours and I find this sad.

Legalizing will make more people come because it is now "legal" (aka respectable) and Bangkok will seal its bad reputation for a sex place.

Ban it or ignore it. There can only be 2 options.

[shopgurl]

I don't know, I would say I'm for it.  Take some parts of Europe where prostitution is legalized, with the right regulations and guidelines for maintaining both sanitary/hygenic conditions and as well as outlining the rights of those who partake in the business-both direct in indirectly or discreetly.  It's certainly a far better choice then keeping it in the dark and assuming that it isn't part of this country and making guys like that Choowit dude richer.

One's body, one's mind, one's right to choose......

[singa-traz]

Bad idea. Who is going to win in this game ? not the girls, not the farangs but only the government. Eitheir you ban it or you close your eyes on it. Is the government a new pimp ?

What would the girls lose in having it legalised ?

As for the Farangs ... Prostitution is not just Farangs, and again what would the Farangs or Thai customers lose ?

What about the possible effect on corruption ?

Is the government a new pimp ?

Legalising and Regulating does not mean the government would own and operate it ...

make it legal will kill the fun of out of it and makes it too professional and less amateurish. This will also "legalised" the sex tours and I find this sad.

You mean, Sad ... it will kill the fun out of the Sex Tour ... ?

Legalizing will make more people come because it is now "legal" (aka respectable) and Bangkok will seal its bad reputation for a sex place.

Prostitution is legal in Singapore. Does it affect Singapore reputation, does it bring more tourists ?

As for the Reputation of Bangkok/Thailand ... Always get a big smile, when I tell someone that I lived a few years in Thailand.

Ban it or ignore it. There can only be 2 options.

... ... Santhip or Mekong ...

[wolf5370]

Sorry singa-traz I dissagree - it's definitly Mekong. Oh, I agree with the rest of your comments thouigh.

[Butterfly]

Bad idea. Who is going to win in this game ? not the girls, not the farangs but only the government. Eitheir you ban it or you close your eyes on it. Is the government a new pimp ?

What would the girls lose in having it legalised ?

As for the Farangs ... Prostitution is not just Farangs, and again what would the Farangs or Thai customers lose ?

What about the possible effect on corruption ?

Is the government a new pimp ?

Legalising and Regulating does not mean the government would own and operate it ...

make it legal will kill the fun of out of it and makes it too professional and less amateurish. This will also "legalised" the sex tours and I find this sad.

You mean, Sad ... it will kill the fun out of the Sex Tour ... ?

Legalizing will make more people come because it is now "legal" (aka respectable) and Bangkok will seal its bad reputation for a sex place.

Prostitution is legal in Singapore. Does it affect Singapore reputation, does it bring more tourists ?

As for the Reputation of Bangkok/Thailand ... Always get a big smile, when I tell someone that I lived a few years in Thailand.

Ban it or ignore it. There can only be 2 options.

... ... Santhip or Mekong ...

Cute. Mekong of course. You can choose 1 option but have 2 options to choose from ? still following me or are you under the table already ?

Girls would need to pay taxes (read less income) and that make technically the government a pimp. Don't know what a pimp is ? look it up

sad... yes... sex tours will become professionals and organized from overseas and advertised without shame. I think the fun of Bangkok is to have a "colorful scene" of amateurs in multiple locations, spread out all around the city in different avenues and colorful places. Instead they will want to put all the girls in "close bars" or in MP. Go see Soi 33 (Japanese Karaok bar) for a preview of what to come. Overpriced girls, old and ugly with huge bar fines. A place for the stupid suckers. I think Nana and PatPong is much more colorful and interesting.

The farangs will get "what they pay for". Professional service until the end. No BS or bar girl stories. That will be missed.

Want to give the impressions of stopping prostitution ? shutdown all the Massage Parlors. There are a disgrace and I won't miss them.

Singapore is different. The city is boring and prostition is so "controlled" that it barely exists and the scene is not interesting. They could have 1000 girls in Singapore, I wouldn't go there. The prostitution scene here is "different" from other countries. It is not as "professional" as other RL districts and that's why it's so interesting. I would never go in another RL district in another country, because it's just boring. But drinking and having fun in Nana is definitely different than just "booking" girls. If it was turned into a huge "legal" MP place, I will stop going there for sure. The sex is not everything, the scenery is.

[TizMe]

amateurs

I think your definition of amateur must be a bit different than mine..

[tutsiwarrior]

I am confused...a number of posters have referred to legalised prostitution in Singapore. Last I heard was that S'pore is the same boring pile of (clean and not smelly)shit that it always has been. If anyone knows where to get laid in S'pore please advise for the next time I unfortunately happen to land there. Malay girls?...Chinese girls?...Indian girls?...bar fines and etc...Please email so that ths forum cannot be accused of promoting SE Asian immorality.

Hula, hula Orchard Road baby...I like you maybe...

[Butterfly]

amateurs

I think your definition of amateur must be a bit different than mine..

Obviously you have never been in the hand of a pro  

[TizMe]

Obviously you have never been in the hand of a pro  

Pro: Someone that gets paid for it.

Amateur: Someone that does it for pure enjoyment or love..

Give me an amateur anytime. You can have the Pros, but then maybe the only way you can get is to pay for it.

[singa-traz]

... ... Santhip or Mekong ...

Cute. Mekong of course. You can choose 1 option but have 2 options to choose from ? still following me or are you under the table already ?

Sorry, I don't post and drink at the same time.

Girls would need to pay taxes (read less income) and that make technically the government a pimp. Don't know what a pimp is ? look it up.

The concern you show over the Thai Goverment image really honor you ...

But between one that choose to close the eyes, and one that who decide to actualy regulate the trade, I would rather choose the later.

sad... yes... sex tours will become professionals and organized from overseas and advertised without shame. I think the fun of Bangkok is to have a "colorful scene" of amateurs in multiple locations, spread out all around the city in different avenues and colorful places. Instead they will want to put all the girls in "close bars" or in MP. Go see Soi 33 (Japanese Karaok bar) for a preview of what to come. Overpriced girls, old and ugly with huge bar fines. A place for the stupid suckers. I think Nana and PatPong is much more colorful and interesting.

It would be a shame to advertised for Sex Tour ... you look more concern about the possible increase in price for the service ... you mean, Sex Tour would make it no longer affordable ... is that really your concern ?

The farangs will get "what they pay for". Professional service until the end. No BS or bar girl stories. That will be missed.

Want to give the impressions of stopping prostitution ? shutdown all the Massage Parlors. There are a disgrace and I won't miss them.

I don't think the objective is to stop prostitution, even with the big news about closing MP.

I see that as a way to cut opportunity of corruption for some of the police force. If it is the business is legal, why would they need to pay the police ?

Of course, paying the Tax man would need to be cheaper than the police.

Would it be right things to do, to actively curb corruption in the police force ?

Singapore is different. The city is boring and prostition is so "controlled" that it barely exists and the scene is not interesting. They could have 1000 girls in Singapore, I wouldn't go there. The prostitution scene here is "different" from other countries. It is not as "professional" as other RL districts and that's why it's so interesting. I would never go in another RL district in another country, because it's just boring. But drinking and having fun in Nana is definitely different than just "booking" girls. If it was turned into a huge "legal" MP place, I will stop going there for sure. The sex is not everything, the scenery is.

I don't see why the scenary would need to change, even if it become a legal business. You could still keep the bar girl discussion, if you want to ... eh, if customer wants it, he is the king, right ?

... but you may drop your concern in the suggestion box ...

As for Singapore, I agree, the city is boring ... but at the same time, drinking in Nana is as just boring to me.

[Butterfly]

Obviously you have never been in the hand of a pro  

Pro: Someone that gets paid for it.

Amateur: Someone that does it for pure enjoyment or love..

Give me an amateur anytime. You can have the Pros, but then maybe the only way you can get is to pay for it.

Explain to me how an Amateur Prostitute would not get paid and do it only for pure pleasure ? are you drinking already ? or is it too early ?

Do you understand what I meant by Amateur here ?

[Butterfly]

I don't think the objective is to stop prostitution, even with the big news about closing MP.

I see that as a way to cut opportunity of corruption for some of the police force. If it is the business is legal, why would they need to pay the police ?

Of course, paying the Tax man would need to be cheaper than the police.

Would it be right things to do, to actively curb corruption in the police force ?

Legalising Prositution is making the government a pimp. End of Story. Any government, not only the Thai government in this specific case. Ban it completely or close your eyes. Why is it so hard for some to understand this ?

Cut corruption of the police force by legalising prostitution ? Are you still on the Kool Aid ? don't you think the police will find another way to "protect" the bars from "unlikely" fire  and still get paid for protection against those "unlikely" events ? Police corruption will keep happening because the police WANTS to be corrupted. What part of the corruption process you didn't understand yet ?

[singa-traz]

Legalising Prositution is making the government a pimp. End of Story. Any government, not only the Thai government in this specific case. Ban it completely or close your eyes. Why is it so hard for some to understand this ?

Cut corruption of the police force by legalising prostitution ? Are you still on the Kool Aid ? don't you think the police will find another way to "protect" the bars from "unlikely" fire  and still get paid for protection against those "unlikely" events ? Police corruption will keep happening because the police WANTS to be corrupted. What part of the corruption process you didn't understand yet ?

Most Probably, the corrupted police, will look for alternative source of revenu. The process cannot be done overnight, but Legalisation of Prostitution will have some effect on corruption.

The amount of money that Mr Chewit claimed to have given to some members of the police force are quite huge ... you can buy a lot of extinghisher for less than that ... extorcing from an illegal business is one thing ... getting it from a legitimate one is another.

Can the Thai government has the will and power to fight corruption ?

Legalising Casino would be the next thing to think about.

As for understanding the corruption process ... I don't limit myselft to this, but also try to see how it can be broken.

[MaiChai]

There was such a fuss about 4 years back when they introduced new laws making it illiegal; everyone was taking the moral high ground saying how pleased they were that it was made illegal. Now they only want to legalise it so they can tax it. Makes it so convenient to brush under the carpet all the high morals when the government wants to make money. Just goes to show how two faced politicians, etc, can be. Prostitution will never be stopped; however, most Thais I know would not want it legalised. It something most Thais don't want to see, or certainly don't want in their faces.

[samuisam]

these girls have been propping up the thai economy for years and should be treated as the valuable assets they are.

the customers should pay the tax, if any, not the girls.  the taxes should pay for educational grants, retirement benefits, union establishment, health care, disease prevention, child welfare, and such.

in fact the taxes could be paid by businesses located near or profiting from, these girls.

in fact, tax incentives should be afforded the women for bringing in capital.  they should not be taxed.

[wolf5370]

Mai Chai, whatever the 'real' reasons for legalising it (taxes), if its knock-on effect is so positive and bring so many potential benefits, why fight it?

Samuisam, you say the punters should pay the taxes, not the girls. Well they would wouldn't they? The girls charge their fee plus tax, the punter pays the total. The charge though is from the girl's income (PAYE if employed or Income Tax if self employed).

'Bring in the capital' does not help the country if it is illegitimate - that is, going to the underground. It helps the economy if the girls pass the taxes back to the Gov. and that they spend/save their legitimate earnings in LOS. The underground bosses have offshore, tax free, bank accounts. Where is the country's benefit?

I have seen no real viable arguement against this proposal except that "it will not be done properly" or that "it is being done for the wrong reasons". We can't assume the former, and should not care less of the latter.

And to say that legalising it will make it 'in your face' is somewhat confusing. With licensed premises, the Gov. can decide locations (away from schools, religious buildings etc). The girls would be brought 'in-house' and not cruise or hangout at every bar and cafe. I feel this is less 'in your face' than the current situation.

Maybe those that partake just can't see it - just as smokers can't smell the tobacco smell that hangs on to their clothing and breath.

[sam77]

Yes butterfly, to legalize prostitution it's mean government will took over pimps and law enforcers

I think legalized sex workers will help them better than anythings else, since I born there.....er....many years ago, prositutions are already there, the only people to profits from sex industry are pimps and law enforcers, the loosers, sex workers.

beside of goverment be able to collect tax revenue, the patronizers might be able to get rating from goverment like Soi Cowboy had a C rating, Pat pong got B, etc.

[sonthaya]

Let the girls do their "thing" it's good for the Thai economi.

[Padkapow Guy]

Help fight prostitution make them give it away!

[mbkudu]

I think it may be a grand idea but Thailand (Thai people) will never allow it because it would be a big, "Loss of face," for them on the international scene. Europeans and Americans don't take face and reputation as seriously as Thais do.