To Dry Or Not To Dry! (cassava)

[xerostar]

I read where the OP has recommended not to dry the Cassava after harvesting.

I must agree - based mainly on logic although I'd like to see a science-based study to prove the practice is a waste of time and money.

If you have freshly harvested Cassava - it has a specific weight which would vary slightly. You get paid the lower price per ton.

If you dry the Cassava it loses water - nothing else! Some have said it loses starch, but I think that is a false assumption.

Carbohydrates don't evaporate!

So after drying you have a much lighter load to take to the factory. You might get paid the higher price, but logically you have

simply made it easier for the factory to process - less energy required to dry the cassava!

I wouldn't mind betting that the end result is less money than if you delivered the undried cassava.

Our family had just harvested a one year crop and got 3.5 tons per Rai. Despite my advice it was chipped and layed out to dry.

The next day it rained buckets. The cassava got wet and required about a week to get it "dry". The factory decided it was not dry enough and paid the "wet price" anyway plus other deductions. What a disaster!

If it had been taken directly to the factory and the lower price accepted, we would have saved ourselves a lot of work, money and worry in handling the stuff.

With a more recent "partial" harvest the same problems occurred again! Much panic and wasted fuel trying to save the stuff.

My Thai family are new to Cassava farming (would you believe!)

So far they have made quite a few mistakes.

First mistake:

Our area is riddled with white ants. The crop was planted last April and was growing well until late 2008 when we noticed white ants attacking most the stems. The plants had a lot of dead leaves near the tops.

I was told that locals use a small dose of "folladarn" when planting each stem. This apparently prevents white ant attack.

I think the white ants were desperate for some water and have attacked the cassava as a last resort while the ground has been dry for several months now.

I intend to try very light irrigation during the dry months to see if that will help.

Second mistake:

In order to supply another block with cassava stems, a crop that was sown last June was recently plundered for the best thick stems. The crop has continued to grow without apparent harm. However due to recent heavy rain, the plants have started a new growth spurt along with heavy growth of weeds (wild mint).

The problem is now we can't spray weed killer because that would kill the plants that were cut for their stems a few weeks ago - since they are only a few inches high!

The only solution would be hand-pulling of all the weeds - a huge task!

Now they want to add to the mistake by early harvesting!

Third mistake:

The BIL insisted on harvesting the barely 9 months old crop of 40 Rai.

He has harvested about 20 Rai and got as expected about 2.5 tons per Rai. The excuse was that he "needed money for food".

I suspect it was to pay some debt because we have paid him wages over the past year for building work.

Nobody has gone hungry I can assure you!

My (English) protests went unheeded - I supplied the tractor, fuel and the fertiliser! (what a sucker ..)

My TW is trying to make the enterprise a "family co-operative", but the wives-in-law are making it difficult.

We have 2 BIL and 4 SIL and about 20 kids to feed plus the 2 SIL's

I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has a business plan that would see all family members given a fair share

of the profits and with the least amount of squabbling.

[teletiger]

My (English) protests went unheeded - I supplied the tractor, fuel and the fertiliser! (what a sucker ..)

My TW is trying to make the enterprise a "family co-operative", but the wives-in-law are making it difficult.

We have 2 BIL and 4 SIL and about 20 kids to feed plus the 2 SIL's

I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has a business plan that would see all family members given a fair share

of the profits and with the least amount of squabbling.

Moving would be number 1 on my business plan! Good luck.

Regards.

[Mikki]

Hi Xerostar. I think that your big problem isen`t to dry or not dry the cassava. You have to much relatives involved in the project. I have started to grow cassava on 50rai in Petchabun and i read what a guy named "Khonwan" wrote about growing cassava and he thinks its not worth to dry it. the risk contra the extra cost

Im sorry to say, but it seems that you have given the family to much "rope" if they harvest when they want some money. You will never get any profit if you dont controll when to harvest and be there yourself is most important. If theres one person you could give the controll to and trust there might be a chance for it to work. And the person must keep a book over expences and work. If not, stop at once.

I have my wife in TH when plant the fields and one bil is in charge of the tractor and taking care of the crop. My mil have been given 5 rai to farm as she pleases on one condition " not to interfere with my wife or my bil" when time to harvest ill go to thailand to supervise it myself

My bil has to keep a book on what he does with the tractor and expences and incomes from working other farmers fields. it might work ill hope and if not ive tolled them not one bath more

Best Regards Mikki

[Maizefarmer]

It comes down to what one intends to do with the cassava: I dry mine because its used in animal feed - and all the cassava i purchase is purchased dry. Thats the only way it can be kept.

Ultimately, just about all casssava is dried - it needs to be for processing (any processing). Its only good wet if its to be used used straight away.

Regards white ants:

Cassava stock should be inoculated prior to planting - read up about it on the net - there are loads of articles - and ensure the stock you purchase is inoculated.

Regards family:

They'll smile nicely and be polite, but it will not earn you any respect from them. Pt your foot down and let them know you're not a soft touch - the smiles will vanish - but you'll earn a grudging respect .... and if it all goes sour - well, you know what side they were coming from to start with, and the sooner you cut them out the deal the better all round it will be.

It gets awkward when the other half doesn't agree - it can be as much a test of her as it can be of the rest of the family (i.e. you'd expect her to support the position you take with respect to supporting extended family members).

[pete_r]

If you sell the cassava to a starch factory, don't chop or dry it. Just bring the whole roots to the factory (clean with as little sand and soil as possible usually gets you a better price).

For anything else, chip and dry.

[Khonwan]

Hi xerostar

This is a good question. And yes, I do advise NOT to dry cassava (it must, of course, be dried but by the purchaser of fresh tubers rather than you). I am currently trying to educate my Thai neighbours on this subject. So why? My science-based reply:

The answer lies mostly in very basic maths. You must first understand by how much 1 tonne of fresh tubers shrinks when dried. 1 tonne (1,000kg) of fresh tubers will provide around 400-500kg of dried cassava (tapioca, “munsen”). The figure cannot be exact since the wetness of the tubers will depend on the time of harvesting. Ask any Thai cassava farmer and he/she should tell you that 1 tonne of fresh tubers is expected to provide 7 hap. 1 hap = 60kg; 7 hap = 420kg. This is, I believe, the best figure for you to assume (without dry-matter testing with a microwave).

Now that we know this, the question whether to sell fresh tubers or dried tapioca is very easy. For simplicity, let’s assume 1 tonne fresh tubers would sell for Bt1,000. The price you must obtain for dried tapioca must be Bt2,381 per tonne (= 1,000/0.42 because only 0.42 tonnes of dried tapioca remains from 1 tonne of fresh tubers).

The middlemen (the cassava driers/traders) advertise their buying price for tubers per tonne but their buying price for dried tapioca is always (at least in my area) per hap. So, in the above example, you would require a dried tapioca price of Bt143/hap (=Bt2,381 / 1,000 x 60). This represents a bare minimum price which doesn’t yet compensate you for your additional costs and risks.

Just to reinforce understanding of the maths before I detail the additional costs, let’s take a real case example based on one of my Thai friend’s recent transaction. The local fresh tuber price was Bt1,400/tonne (this was around a month ago; currently Bt1,550 at my location). My friend decided to chip & dry his tubers to obtain a price of Bt180/hap (=Bt3,000/tonne). He knew that conventional wisdom dictates that 1 tonne of tubers will result in 7 hap of tapioca after drying but he is poorly educated with a very poor grasp of basic arithmetic. Furthermore, the dealers’ use of two different measurement units, i.e. tonnes for tubers and hap for tapioca, serves to ensure greater confusion. Instead of selling 1,000kg tubers for Bt1,400 he spent considerable time and money cutting and drying the tubers to sell the same tubers (the original tonne) for only Bt1,260! Check it out: his tonne is now only 420kg; @180/hap he is only getting Bt3/kg therefore his original tonne worth Bt1,400 will now sell for Bt1,260 (=420kg x Bt3).

Application of the equation above shows that he should have required a minimum price of Bt200 (=Bt1,400 / 0.42 / 1,000 x 60; note that these figures in red are constants).

He did not think this through (and I was unaware of what he was doing), but there was worse to come. Whilst he was visiting me at my home during the evening (neighbouring village), the rain started. His tapioca was still out on the concrete apron. He rushed home and gathered it. He then agreed with his purchaser the price of Bt180/hap as previously offered but with a penalty to compensate the purchaser for the rain damage: 1 hap would now be calculated as 58kg (rather than 60kg),i.e. a penalty of 3.333% (=2/60). Each original tonne (for which he could have received Bt1,400) now achieved only Bt1,218.

The minimum figure I have mentioned only represents the arithmetical result based on moisture loss. To determine a minimum worthwhile price you must consider your additional costs and risks. You will have to utilise labour and fuel and hire a chipper (usually a trailer modified with a cutting disk fitted under a cut-out in the base of the trailer) if you don’t have one. You will then have to spread the chips over a wide area of concrete (you could dry these on compacted dirt but you will normally then incur a dirt penalty). These chips must be frequently turned over to ensure proper drying for 2-3 days of full sun. Throughout this time, you must pray (if you are that way inclined) that it doesn’t rain!

I’ve no interest in trying to work out what those costs and risks should amount to in compensatory terms but I know you are not going to see it reflected in the price you will receive. I explain to my farmer friends here that my cassava processor friends here are delighted when their farmer friends do all the chipping & drying work (which they would otherwise have to do) for nothing, and very often at a charge.

Spread the word to your Thai farmer friends and family! Help them do the maths! Don’t expect that they will remember the maths – most will not: tell them to consult you each year for your free and accurate advice that will really save them.

I too have experience in drying cassava (as seen in my photo in my OP in the pinned thread), but only for feed to my cattle (years ago). As a cash crop, sell the fresh tubers.

Xerostar, I can’t help you with your white-ant problem – I’ve never experienced it.

With regards to your “second mistake”, I can find no mistake. There is nothing wrong with cutting the stems of mature cassava for replanting then leaving the tubers to resprout. This is, in fact, the norm in the case of two-year cycle crops. Cassava lends itself to this practise since, with the loss of the food-manufacturing tops (the tree/leaves) the plant uses some of its stored nutrients in its tuber until sufficient regrowth of the tops occurs. During this period, the tuber loses some starch. I think I’m right in saying that it normally takes 3 months (with rainfed or piped irrigation) for the losses to recover – I allow 6 months for my 2-yr cycle crops before harvest, i.e. would cut the 12 month old stems for replanting then harvest the tubers 6 months later.

You ought to be able to carefully spray under these new re-sprouts with paraquat if they are a few weeks old and a few inches high. I would advise doing so with a hand-pumped backpack sprayer rather than a motorised version. Actually, this raises a point of interest for me. As per my pinned OP, I have not previously used glyphosphate as a weed control for cassava but intend to start doing so in the future within 3 days of planting. I will now also consider spraying glyphosphate within three days of cutting the stems as described above, whereby the tubers are left to resprout. I know that the glyphosphate is safe for the original setts (the cut/planted stems) but I’m not sure what effect it would have on the tubers, if any. The obvious benefit, of course, is easier weed control. I’ll look into this but would also appreciate any views/comments on this from anyone.

With regards to your “third mistake”, xerostar, many Thai farmers harvest after 9 months (many before). But yes, the longer the better (up to 18 months in terms of starch percentage). “Money for food” were that genuine could, of course, be taken care of by harvest of just a couple of rai or so – easy done. My guess would be that they have a government or village loan that was due for repayment – more honest communication with you may have led to an alternative and better solution. If you are supplying the majority of the inputs at no cost to them (I think that’s what you mean), then you ought to be in control – the mistake therefore appears to be your lack of control/management: look to yourself.

Regards

Khonwan

[slapout]

Khonwan; You must have the patience of job to help and successfully explain this to the locals. Good on you.... I have noticed the different measurements for a single crop is used quite frequently here by middlemen and have come to the conclusion that it is another way to screw the uneducated/ unknowing farmer. If you can get past the offending middleman and get to his buyer you can do okay. We found this on dried lamyai one year by going to Chinese buyer. He has since disappeared from the scene??? Rice and garlic are other crops that different measurements and moisture come into play and most of the Thai farmers in our area (older of course) have no clue so just take what they are offered.

[soidog2]

We live in a cassava growing area, and grow it on well over a hundred rais, always sell it the day it was picked.

The only people selling dried cassava, are the children and grandmothers that go and pick the harvest leftovers from the fields.

It seems you’re getting a much higher price , it’s an illusion and terrible waste of labor.

The rest , like somebody else said , only one person can and needs to be in charge, that be you !

Regards

PS do not use " Folidol", a dangerous chemical.

As for feeding your extended family, this is what I did with mine.

On land that we own, ( my wife & me )

Each bread winner in my immediate family gets to rent a parcel for a nominal rent of 1000 baht per rai. per year.

They keep all the profit , make all the decisions, on 20 /25 Rai at the village level, it’s a decent income for them.

In turn they feel good, don’t need to ask for hand outs, I feel good, nobody asking for hand outs!

[xerostar]

Thanks to everyone for the encouraging replies!

I have made a new rule - telling my TW that every expense must be written down in a book from now on.

I told her I'm no longer interested in paying for anything unless they follow my rules.

One BIL who is a good worker already takes care of the tractor and does give it regular maintenance so I will get him

to keep a book on all expenses and income from working neigbouring properties. The other BIL drives the tractor too.

Convincing them to not dry the cassava has already met with skepticism.

I fear their mathematics (or logic) is not up to scratch.

I will need to find a starch factory first and then arrange transport.

The locals seem to believe it is not allowed to go direct to the factory for fear of angering the local middle men!?

Are there any opinions on this?

That idea about renting a parcel of land to each breadwinner sounds very good - I will see what we can do with that.

I can see the advantages in making each one independent. The lack of independence at present leads to dissatisfaction

and mistrust of each other.

I only arrived on the property a few weeks ago and have been busy with our new pool (priorities wrong?)

Since I last posted, I went for a long walk around the property (100 Rai) with my BIL.

There are more problems!

The white ants have attacked the base stems on 60% of the cassava as I reported earlier.

Recent strong winds have caused most of these stems to break off at ground level.

Our property is on a hill facing south west.

Some areas look like a battle field with dead and dying cassava branches all over the place!

The next problem is the extreme soil erosion.

Gulleys have formed over the years and even contour ploughing has failed to prevent major creeks from forming

and sending all our topsoil (containing fertiliser) down to the neighbour who is no doubt gleeful of the yearly gifts we send.

I have obtained the telephone number of the Thai Agriculture Extension and told my wife to call and get some help.

I believe they have experts who can assist - anybody had experience with these people?

[xerostar]

I checked the prices being paid by local middlemen in Bo Yang, Sawang Arom, Uthai Thani.

0.9 Baht per kg tubers (900 Baht/ton)

- which I find astonishing considering some posters mention 1,400 or even 1,500 Baht per ton

3.4 Baht per Kg dry chips (3,400 Baht/ton)

Cost to dry chips 0.11 Baht per Kg (110 Baht/ton)

So end price for dry chips = 3.29 Baht per Kg or 3290 Baht per ton

The factors I see that cause the farmer to dry the chips instead of hauling fresh tubers to a starch factory are:

a) Conveniently situated middlemen (no need for heavy transport)

low price paid for tubers - better price per Kg for chips - (The major problem here)

c) long distance to Starch factory - need for heavy transport vehicle

d) Hauling small quantities of tubers to the starch factory would be uneconomical?

Possible factors?

e) Starch factory refusing to take small loads or deal with farmers?

f) Starch factory working with the middlemen to control prices?

I would like to find the nearest starch factories but have no idea where to look.

Long term, if we can get a good price from a starch factory I would consider buying a truck.

We could hire the truck out (with our driver) to other farmers in the area to take tubers to the factory.

[soidog2]

Ok it works like this;

I suppose you & wife own the 100 rai , yes ?

# 1 priority , get the land under control . plow , subsoil, dig, whatever you need to stabilize it.

Ask around if termites are a common problem , if yes, treat the entire parcel now and before you plant again.

Where we are, termites do attack but rarely.

# 2 If you have a hundred rai to plant , stagger the timing to three periods to maximize cash flow and minimize onetime expenses.

# 3 Income from 100 rais do not justify owning a truck or tractor for that matter unless you are prepared to deal with the heavy maintenance and the logistics of having them hired out every day.

Generally, you will always be dependent on transportation; the truck driver will usually go to the place that pays the most at that given time.

The driver is your middle man, he sells directly to the processors, when he returns should give you a slip with what he received.

From that he will deduct the labor & transportation, rest net to you.

The people that drive around and buy the dry stuff are mostly small time dealers , don’t worry about them.

No it does not pay to drive & sell small quantities. I still don’t understand why you would full around with that stuff.

This year you missed it but ASAP go to your nearest branch of the Agriculture bank, sign up for an account, ask when to register for the government guaranteed price next year, they will tell you where to sell , what to do ETC. ( not really you , the wife )

This year the price is extremely low because of reduced demand due to the world economic slump.

Up to last, week the guaranteed government price was around 1.8 baht, run out of money and stopped.

Next year might not be any better but in the long run is a good business..

Shop around; you should be able to get about 1.1 baht in the open market right now.

regards

[thaiyes]

For erosion control on hilly land we use grass strips that are never plowed. Find the place where the water normally flows and erodes and plant a permanent grass strips there. You might even mix grass seed with Sesbania to get it up and growing fast, then the grass will take over after the Sesbania gets harvested.

[soidog2]

For erosion control on hilly land we use grass strips that are never plowed. Find the place where the water normally flows and erodes and plant a permanent grass strips there. You might even mix grass seed with Sesbania to get it up and growing fast, then the grass will take over after the Sesbania gets harvested.

Excellent advice !