Traffic Chaos In Bangkok As Protesters Close Main Roads

[mdechgan]

H90, There is no doubt, whatsoever, that many of the Reds are being paid and bused in by organizers. Anyone living in Bangkok who travels the city can see the buses. In one, relatively small area, I counted 74 large buses last week.

What I thought was interesting was the amount of people who come from Bangkok and surrounding areas. This isn't the "army" of hard working farmers that the Red's organizers want to make it out to be.

The reports were:

8th: 100.000

9th: 30.000

10th: 10.000

that does not mean that there aren't 50.000 still in Bangkok but instead of demonstrating they may meet friends, sanook somewhere etc etc which sounds perfect probable with the idea that they are not interested in politics, just their bus goes back tomorrow.

10.000 also sounds probable for the real believer.

no way it is the uprising of the enslaved poor against the capitalists. At least it doesn't look like that.

From the live television videos 10,000 is really pushing it. I don't think there are that many around the victory monument currently. It is really sparse, well compared to yesterday. Maybe they all moved to Pattaya but reports only state about 2,000 people.

The nation reports that the protesters will disperse and return to the government house at 5pm because it is no longer a strategic location due to the holiday. Looks like the PM made some good quick decisions.

[sriracha john]

PAD was able to get thousands for months....red shirts are down to a few within 48 hours.... given the claims of Rainman et al that there is this 60% support for Thaksin (an opinion) , it seems remarkable that they would lose steam so quickly.

Perhaps because the red shirts have to go to work? I can't think of any average Thai citizen that can afford to sit around the government building for months without having to go to work.

"Months" is nothing... they're ready for a year...

Red Shirts vow prolonged anti-government protest

BANGKOK, March 26 (TNA) - Anti-government protesters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Thursday vowed to continue their protest at Government House for at least one month.

UDD core key leader Jatuporn Prompan, also a member of parliament from the Opposition Puea Thai Party, said that the group’s rally would be prolonged for at least one month, and that the group has sufficient capability and could sustain the protest up to one year if they wish.

Edited April 10, 2009 by sriracha john

[Old Man River]

As an aside it would be interesting to see how many the Dems could turn out if they called a demo, which I hope they wont. They never even organised for the PAD, and early in Thaksin's troubles called off the only demo they were going to call.

There is no demonstration in the cards for the Democrats. This is contra to what Abhisit and his advisers believe in. They are handling this professionally. You won't see police armed with explosive gas cannisters blowing up Thai citizens nor organized groups with shovels and golf clubs. That was the way the previous government responded.

[h90]

H90, There is no doubt, whatsoever, that many of the Reds are being paid and bused in by organizers. Anyone living in Bangkok who travels the city can see the buses. In one, relatively small area, I counted 74 large buses last week.

What I thought was interesting was the amount of people who come from Bangkok and surrounding areas. This isn't the "army" of hard working farmers that the Red's organizers want to make it out to be.

The reports were:

8th: 100.000

9th: 30.000

10th: 10.000

that does not mean that there aren't 50.000 still in Bangkok but instead of demonstrating they may meet friends, sanook somewhere etc etc which sounds perfect probable with the idea that they are not interested in politics, just their bus goes back tomorrow.

10.000 also sounds probable for the real believer.

no way it is the uprising of the enslaved poor against the capitalists. At least it doesn't look like that.

From the live television videos 10,000 is really pushing it. I don't think there are that many around the victory monument currently. It is really sparse, well compared to yesterday. Maybe they all moved to Pattaya but reports only state about 2,000 people.

The nation reports that the protesters will disperse and return to the government house at 5pm because it is no longer a strategic location due to the holiday. Looks like the PM made some good quick decisions.

Well 1000 at Victory monument, 2000 in Pattaya, 1000 stuck somewhere between.

Makes 4000. Are there any other places they still control? Or is it that: 4000 people?

[sriracha john]

just watched the footage of this,the reds just walked forward, including women, and the army/police backed off, no violence at all.

Supporters of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra knock a riot policeman down as they break through the security cordon near the venue of the 14th ASEAN Summit and Related Summits in Pattaya April 10, 2009. Anti-government protesters converged on the Thai beach town of Pattaya on Friday with plans to disrupt an Asian summit as part of efforts to try to force Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to step down.

REUTERS

Anti-government demonstrators try to march through police lines as they converge on the 14th ASEAN Summit in Pattaya, Thailand, on Friday April 10, 2009. Hundreds of anti-government protesters have gathered outside the Asia summit venue, saying they will enter the complex unless the Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva resigns.

AP

Supporters of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra break through a cordon of riot policemen near the venue of the 14th ASEAN Summit and Related Summits in Pattaya April 10, 2009. Anti-government protesters converged on the Thai beach town of Pattaya on Friday with plans to disrupt an Asian summit as part of efforts to try to force Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to step down.

REUTERS

Edited April 10, 2009 by sriracha john

[balou]

i have a friend who's working in a factory in Bangkok (Rangsit), she saw UDD people coming and proposing 200 Baht a day to join protesters.

Seems that some of the "today" red was certainly yellow yesterday. But i heard that yellow was paying uo to 450 a day.

amazing Thailand!

this will never end like this.

Election???? same shit, they buy votes 500 baht...never ending story.

[rainman]

Well my imports and exports came in and went out during this week of airport seizure. So please put some light on where the 90 billion got lost and which part of the airfreight makes a 4.7 Trillion Baht per year to loose 90 billion in one week. (and we are not speaking about tourists we speak about logistics at the airport minus Express Services which worked almost normal).

You should probably go tell the Bank of Thailand, who put the report on the losses together, how much they did and how much they didn't loose. They could probably learn quite a bit from you (<- sarcasm)

[hammered]

Supporters of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra knock a riot policeman down as they break through the security cordon near the venue of the 14th ASEAN Summit and Related Summits in Pattaya April 10, 2009. Anti-government protesters converged on the Thai beach town of Pattaya on Friday with plans to disrupt an Asian summit as part of efforts to try to force Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to step down.

REUTERS

Anti-government demonstrators try to march through police lines as they converge on the 14th ASEAN Summit in Pattaya, Thailand, on Friday April 10, 2009. Hundreds of anti-government protesters have gathered outside the Asia summit venue, saying they will enter the complex unless the Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva resigns.

AP

Supporters of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra break through a cordon of riot policemen near the venue of the 14th ASEAN Summit and Related Summits in Pattaya April 10, 2009. Anti-government protesters converged on the Thai beach town of Pattaya on Friday with plans to disrupt an Asian summit as part of efforts to try to force Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to step down.

REUTERS

This is rapidly reaching the point of dispersal and the demonstrators must realise this. One push into the hoteland you have a situation where foreign leaders are at risk. There will inevitably be only one repsonse to that in any country in the world. I hope the redleaders are mindful of this and can keepcontrol.

[mdechgan]

As an aside it would be interesting to see how many the Dems could turn out if they called a demo, which I hope they wont. They never even organised for the PAD, and early in Thaksin's troubles called off the only demo they were going to call.

There is no demonstration in the cards for the Democrats. This is contra to what Abhisit and his advisers believe in. They are handling this professionally. You won't see police armed with explosive gas cannisters blowing up Thai citizens nor organized groups with shovels and golf clubs. That was the way the previous government responded.

I like how the current government is handling the situtation. Let the reds play, the government has to work. Prolong and last out as long as possible until the holidays, then lets see what happens because the red's demands are just unacceptable. Pursue the leaders and mr. t through legal and diplomatic means, extradite him through an emissary convoy, and pursue warrants through the courts. It will become obvious very soon which side is trying to do what. Work through the government or cause as much havoc as possible including insurrection.

[asean]

All they seem to be asking for is a new election so the people can decide. One man one vote. The last 3 or 4 pm's were not voted in by the people. So what if the majority vote wins? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Maybe i am really missing something here.

[h90]

Well my imports and exports came in and went out during this week of airport seizure. So please put some light on where the 90 billion got lost and which part of the airfreight makes a 4.7 Trillion Baht per year to loose 90 billion in one week. (and we are not speaking about tourists we speak about logistics at the airport minus Express Services which worked almost normal).

You should probably go tell the Bank of Thailand, who put the report on the losses together, how much they did and how much they didn't loose. They could probably learn quite a bit from you (<- sarcasm)

well, some people are simply not smart enough to understand what political motivated studies mean.

[mdechgan]

Well 1000 at Victory monument, 2000 in Pattaya, 1000 stuck somewhere between.

Makes 4000. Are there any other places they still control? Or is it that: 4000 people?

I wonder where everyone went. Its not even raining yet. What are the current numbers at the government house?

Out of the 70,000 taxis only a couple hundred blocked the streets. I was expecting much worse.

[h90]

All they seem to be asking for is a new election so the people can decide. One man one vote. The last 3 or 4 pm's were not voted in by the people. So what if the majority vote wins? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Maybe i am really missing something here.

In Thailand people vote for parties and not for PM, so they all were not direct elected.

the 3 last one were elected within the parliamentary rules. That the elections are all dominated with massive vote buying makes that all a joke.

Let them serve the time they are elected for...

[rainman]

well, some people are simply not smart enough to understand what political motivated studies mean.

Since you can't back your claims, that no money was lost during the airport occupations, with facts, you may as well call the others stupid.

The economic losses are not just goods shipped through airplanes. They are tourists that have canceled their trips, lost investor confidence, canceled business deals, airlines suing for damages, import/export companies suing for damages, Thai jobs lost and much more.

[h90]

Well 1000 at Victory monument, 2000 in Pattaya, 1000 stuck somewhere between.

Makes 4000. Are there any other places they still control? Or is it that: 4000 people?

I wonder where everyone went. Its not even raining yet. What are the current numbers at the government house?

Out of the 70,000 taxis only a couple hundred blocked the streets. I was expecting much worse.

yes surprisingly low numbers, I expected at least 20.000?

[rainman]

UDD just announced that they concentrate around government house for now and return after Songkran.

[Lami]

I think the Reds are doing Thailand a favour.

Their presence helps obscure the industry base of the town to which the "world leaders" have been invited to meet .

[hammered]

All they seem to be asking for is a new election so the people can decide. One man one vote. The last 3 or 4 pm's were not voted in by the people. So what if the majority vote wins? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Maybe i am really missing something here.

All the recent PMs bar Surayud were voted in by parlaimentary system. People elect their MPs and the MPs then choose the PM. Samak, Somchai and Abhisit were all chosen this way which is a standard internationalparlimentary selection of PM procedure. The size of party of the PM is irrelevent as long as a majority of the peoples duly elected representatives vote for the PM. Same the world over in parliamentary systems.

The elected PM idea is based on a presidential system which Thailand doesnt have.

[mdechgan]

All they seem to be asking for is a new election so the people can decide. One man one vote. The last 3 or 4 pm's were not voted in by the people. So what if the majority vote wins? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Maybe i am really missing something here.

I don't think the constitution allows the people to directly elect the PM. The people vote for the party's number and MPs. At the end of the day the majority of the house elects and chooses the PM. Doesn't neccessarily mean the party with most seats are automatically in power. Its the main coalition that's in power. So a party with most votes doesn't neccessarily mean they have their PM in power. Sometimes a smaller party can become PM if they have enough coalition parties join them like the democrat party when the Newin faction joined the party. There was talk though of Chalerm or even Banharn obtaining the seat through internal side deals.

The last election was really confusing. When I went there, there two ballots, and on one ballot you could actually choose 2-3 MPs.

[jbowman1993]

well, some people are simply not smart enough to understand what political motivated studies mean.

Since you can't back your claims, that no money was lost during the airport occupations, with facts, you may as well call the others stupid.

The economic losses are not just goods shipped through airplanes. They are tourists that have canceled their trips, lost investor confidence, canceled business deals, airlines suing for damages, import/export companies suing for damages, Thai jobs lost and much more.

Hey Rainman,

If that's you in your avatar picture, with that beautiful chick, why are you spending so much time talking on this forum about Thaksin. Go be with your hot woman! Your priorities are slightly ass backwards imo...

[TAWP]

All they seem to be asking for is a new election so the people can decide. One man one vote. The last 3 or 4 pm's were not voted in by the people. So what if the majority vote wins? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Maybe i am really missing something here.

You have probably missed that the PM is never ever elected by the people, he is always selected by the parliament. That is how the system works in most countries.

[bertlamar]

PAD was able to get thousands for months....red shirts are down to a few within 48 hours.... given the claims of Rainman et al that there is this 60% support for Thaksin (an opinion) , it seems remarkable that they would lose steam so quickly.

Perhaps because the red shirts have to go to work? I can't think of any average Thai citizen that can afford to sit around the government building for months without having to go to work. The people that sat around for PAD where either the homeless trying to get free food and shelter or high class Thais who could afford not to go to work for several months.

Use a bit of common sense, please.

COmmon sense suggests a lot of people could take a day off, given that for many officials, today was a day off....and given the large number of supporters that people keep claiming the red shirts had, to run in shifts...but they couldn't even last a few hours, and now the whole thing has supposedly been called off since they simply don't have the numbers they need. Certainly the taxi drivers taking a few hours off to block the roads don't seem to have a problem. I worked with people in the yellow shirts camp and they used to work then head to the protest and head home again; red shirts also have a shift system no doubt, but had hoped to probably get bus loads to come in, like they did in 2005 at the parks and so forth to show support for their hero. The reds I saw in the last 24 hours were not 'average citizens'; most of the red and yellow shirts, let's face it, are supporting people with a screw loose.

The red shirt leaders recognise the aim of what they tried to do, to disrupt and present massive numbers, a ground swell of support like in the Philipines when they overthrew Marcos.....simply hasn't happened as so that's why they are blamuing the media.

Oldmanriver; thanks, your link to me at least shows that most of the support is rural from the north and the northeast...as you would discover had you spent time on the ground yesterday or speaking to the protestors. Not much support down south, or in the capital, but there are probably plenty of Bangkokians also... just nothing close to a majority of the city (as was the case for the yellow shirts, who also recognised a vocal, but very small minority out of the 62 million people in this country).

The yellow shirts started off very mildly, then it escalated a lot once the police were shown to be killing them, the government tried to clamp down on them; that's what led to the crazy airport situation; a game of oneupsmanship.

This time the current government have been smart enough to learn from Somchai's numerous mistakes; the redshirts also have learned something but have a much more thuggish element to their approach which is not surprising given the lese majeste and intimidation tactics they have shown already since what 2005 onwards; hard to be surprised really.

Edited April 10, 2009 by bertlamar

[h90]

well, some people are simply not smart enough to understand what political motivated studies mean.

Since you can't back your claims, that no money was lost during the airport occupations, with facts, you may as well call the others stupid.

The economic losses are not just goods shipped through airplanes. They are tourists that have canceled their trips, lost investor confidence, canceled business deals, airlines suing for damages, import/export companies suing for damages, Thai jobs lost and much more.

Please point me to where I told that no money was lost!

just the numbers are nonsense. Take a calculator and a statistic sheet of Thailand.

lost investor confidence??? After military coup, Samak and Somchai???

Canceled businesses: I didn't hear of any, because of a 2-3 day delay, but there might be a few.

Please point me to an article about the airlines/import/export companies suing Thailand.

I don't doubt the canceled tourist trips and loose in confidents of Tourists.

[stingray]

When willit end?

So long as someone pays daily money to protesters (doesn't matter wich color they are), it will never end. We had four construction workers. They told us yesterday that they will not come work for the next four days, because someone offered them over 1000 Baht per day to go for rallies. I don't know if this is true, but this is what they told us.

[rainman]

Hey Rainman,

If that's you in your avatar picture, with that beautiful chick, why are you spending so much time talking on this forum about Thaksin. Go be with your hot woman! Your priorities are slightly ass backwards imo...

I'm keeping an eye on Forex on one screen, while posting on ThaiVisa on the other. My wife is supervising the construction of our new kitchen. I've got my priorities straight, don't worry

[mdechgan]

All they seem to be asking for is a new election so the people can decide. One man one vote. The last 3 or 4 pm's were not voted in by the people. So what if the majority vote wins? Isn't that what democracy is all about? Maybe i am really missing something here.

All the recent PMs bar Surayud were voted in by parlaimentary system. People elect their MPs and the MPs then choose the PM. Samak, Somchai and Abhisit were all chosen this way which is a standard internationalparlimentary selection of PM procedure. The size of party of the PM is irrelevent as long as a majority of the peoples duly elected representatives vote for the PM. Same the world over in parliamentary systems.

The elected PM idea is based on a presidential system which Thailand doesnt have.

During the last election the majority of seats went to the PPP. But during exit polls the majority would have chosen Abhisit over Samak for PM.

[edwardmoulton]

I am glad to see that the BBC is upping it's coverage of events with a front page entry on the right for the events. I emailed them yesterday to ask why they had not updated their coverage for a while and to point out that their focus was just on Thaksin not the fight for democracy. I am sure I was not the only one but glad to see that now they are clearly stating the facts and what the whole issue is about -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7993322.stm

Clear video there too.

[edwardmoulton]

well, some people are simply not smart enough to understand what political motivated studies mean.

Since you can't back your claims, that no money was lost during the airport occupations, with facts, you may as well call the others stupid.

The economic losses are not just goods shipped through airplanes. They are tourists that have canceled their trips, lost investor confidence, canceled business deals, airlines suing for damages, import/export companies suing for damages, Thai jobs lost and much more.

Please point me to where I told that no money was lost!

just the numbers are nonsense. Take a calculator and a statistic sheet of Thailand.

lost investor confidence??? After military coup, Samak and Somchai???

Canceled businesses: I didn't hear of any, because of a 2-3 day delay, but there might be a few.

Please point me to an article about the airlines/import/export companies suing Thailand.

I don't doubt the canceled tourist trips and loose in confidents of Tourists.

h90, with the greatest of respect I think you totally underestimate the damage done! Wow.... It was a catastrophe and the effects are still not totally revealed. Wait a couple of months and you will see desperation here and yes, not all as a result of the airport closure - global economics and the other shortcomings in Thailand too like un-educated workforce, corruption and lagging infrastructure etc but a big chunk is the airport closure!!!

[hammered]

well, some people are simply not smart enough to understand what political motivated studies mean.

Since you can't back your claims, that no money was lost during the airport occupations, with facts, you may as well call the others stupid.

The economic losses are not just goods shipped through airplanes. They are tourists that have canceled their trips, lost investor confidence, canceled business deals, airlines suing for damages, import/export companies suing for damages, Thai jobs lost and much more.

Please point me to where I told that no money was lost!

just the numbers are nonsense. Take a calculator and a statistic sheet of Thailand.

lost investor confidence??? After military coup, Samak and Somchai???

Canceled businesses: I didn't hear of any, because of a 2-3 day delay, but there might be a few.

Please point me to an article about the airlines/import/export companies suing Thailand.

I don't doubt the canceled tourist trips and loose in confidents of Tourists.

h90, with the greatest of respect I think you totally underestimate the damage done! Wow.... It was a catastrophe and the effects are still not totally revealed. Wait a couple of months and you will see desperation here and yes, not all as a result of the airport closure - global economics and the other shortcomings in Thailand too like un-educated workforce, corruption and lagging infrastructure etc but a big chunk is the airport closure!!!

Consdiering that the Thai economy is so export driven that will be the main significant cause of Thailands to come economic problems. Things like the airport occupation are minor in comparison. If events get out of habd at Pattaye today that will impact Thailand too but nothing compared to global realities

[jamesjdaly]

Hey Rainman.......are your fingers not sore typing all that &lt;deleted&gt; about the red coats (sorry, shirts)?!!