Raising Other's Children

[mbkudu]

I think most here have lost sight of what I was originally seeking an answer to.

I know western men don't mind taking care of other men's children and I know that men and women for that matter leave spouses and kids often.

How do most Thai people, Thai men especially view another man who raises another man's child? I think this cannot be properly answered by Farangs. Ajarn's argument that we cannot generalise all Thais is fair, but like Kat has said, there are certain cultural nuances in all societies that persist.

I do know that there is an aversion to adoption in Thailand. Maybe this is partly an

answer to my own uncertainties. One of my wife's sisters went through countless fertility treatments and thousands and thousands of baht to have a child, only to fail. I asked them, why not adopt, they would not consider it.

Edited January 26, 2005 by mbkudu

[Thaicoon]

I have a Thai stepdaughter she is now 13, she came to the UK when she was 5, my thai family were very, very, happy that i was taking an interest in the childs wellfare, she could only speak Thai and her thai father who is now dead, hopefully gone to ######, he used to mistreat this child very bad, she is now 13 years old and go's to a boarding school in England as a day scholer costing me 12 gran a year, she now speaks fluent english, german and french and is learning spanish, and when she goes back to Buriram in the summer hol's, our thai family are very proud of her and give me great respect for bringing this little girl up so well and giving her a good education, if you marry a thai lady it is for you to bring her children up, especially if she has a bad thai father, as there are a few out there, some of the advise on stickmans site i do not think is true, he is just putting things on, that other people have told him or things that may have happened to himself.

[mbkudu]

I have a Thai stepdaughter she is now 13, she came to the UK when she was 5, my thai family were very, very, happy that i was taking an interest in the childs wellfare, she could only speak Thai and her thai father who is now dead, hopefully gone to ######, he used to mistreat this child very bad, she is now 13 years old and go's to a boarding school in England as a day scholer costing me 12 gran a year, she now speaks fluent english, german and french and is learning spanish, and when she goes back to Buriram in the summer hol's, our thai family are very proud of her and give me great respect for bringing this little girl up so well and giving her a good education, if you marry a thai lady it is for you to bring her children up, especially if she has a bad thai father, as there are a few out there, some of the advise on stickmans site i do not  think is true, he is just putting things on, that other people have told him or things that may have happened to himself.

Hi Thaicoon. So, are you Thai? Just curious. If you are, do you think that your situation is unusual in Thai culture or quite acceptable and viewed as normal in Thai society?

I know that this view I read on Stickman is not his opinion; just another person submitting a story to him.

[Ajarn]

Let me try and start again to try and understand your question and it's point. You've already stated your opinion, so that's not a question. And, no, that is not a flame

Your question was a simple yes or no question, right? Do Thai men......? Right?

I answered sincerely and honestly because you asked for responses. My point was clearly that this is a yes or no question that can have no definitive answer other than my first response (polite, too.)

You seemed quite defensive in your response. and again asked the same yes/no question...

You then had some tiff with chon, and I was confused about that in relation to your question, and your hostile response to Chon. You asked the same yes/no question again. Never one to run away, and still trying to get you to a question that made sense, I gave you the benefit of some doubt, but I still addressed that doubt directly, as I'm inclined to do... It was not a stone being thrown on my part. Just directness. No other agenda or issue on my part. And polite, in my opinion. My response this time was more assertive and confrontive. I was still confused about what you wanted, and I wanted you to get my point. But, my slight frustration showed, because that's what I felt, and that's the way I write. Still no flame or stones from me, in my view. But my apology for my frustration showing maybe too much and that maybe adding to your defensive posture.

Your response was defensive, and maybe hurt. it seemed to me. You twisted my words into a false accusation, But you also started to get more to a point, though it still seemed foggy to me... Then you threw some small stones, which I, again, addressed politely and directly.

And I again pointed out the pointless question you asked. I didn't call it a stupid question, or call you any names. I simply put it in front of you in a direct way, as is usual for me.

You came back with a flame and some confused reasoning about my attitude.

Listen, I don't pretend to know everything and you know that. But I do have 20 years of living and working directly with Thais-mostly in their language. Experience counts for something, in my book. But it's only my experiences and I'm well aware of that. I'm here to learn as much as to teach or support others here. Your experiences are just as valuable as mine. It's just the judgements of our experiences which can be disagreed about, in my view. I have no chips on my shoulder, and I can always back my words. I feel confident in what I say because I know I'm trying to be honest and not trying to hide something. I'm frank about my feelings and life because it feels like the right thing for me to do, and I have no fears from that. I like being honest and of course I believe what I say. I also invite opposing and differing views. Opposing views force me to look again at my view, and again question my motives...good or bad. That's the b&w for me here. Is what I'm saying a reaction to ill feelings (not being 'clean', in my vernacular)? Or, is my heart in the right place, and if so, I'll just continue on that path. Hey, I'm human, too. I have written here with ill feelings on occasion, but I don't get into insult-wars.

Differing views teach me, for I am a student here, too. I've learned so much from this place, and it is my hope I'm able to repay my lessons learned with something of value I can offer someone else. I'm not asking for accolades. Just honest and reasonable discussions. Strange (to me) questions can throw me off balance sometimes though.

I'm really trying to be the best person I can in my final years. I will continue to make mistakes, and I will continue to try to make amends when mistakes are made, In this little exchange of ours, I fully accept my responsibilty for my words, but not for your own mistaken interpretations of my words. I certainly could have been less assertive and confrontive with you. That's the downside sometimes for my 'cut to the chase' style.

Anyway, no hard feelings on my part. I'd still like to get more into your issues...

Is what you're thinking about like how these guys are treated by the courts in various countries?

In those kinds of cases, it seems that the Thai father rarely has to pay his accounts... Even in marriage, the laws favor the man. If the women screws around, even once, the man can divorce her, no problem. But if the man screws around, the woman must prove 'ongoing support' of a mistress if she wants to take any legal action like divorce. It stands to reason that these same attitudes would be a part of child-custody issues, but I'm just assuming this. I'd be interested in experiences of others in this regard...

[mbkudu]

Let me try and start again to try and understand your question and it's point. You've already stated your opinion, so that's not a question. And, no, that is not a flame 

Your question was a simple yes or no question, right? Do Thai men......? Right?

I answered sincerely and honestly because you asked for responses. My point was clearly that this is a yes or no question that can have no definitive answer other than my first response (polite, too.)

You seemed quite defensive in your response. and again asked the same yes/no question...

You then had some tiff with chon, and I was confused about that in relation to your question, and your hostile response to Chon. You asked the same yes/no question again. Never one to run away, and still trying to get you to a question that made sense, I gave you the benefit of some doubt, but I still addressed that doubt directly, as I'm inclined to do... It was not a stone being thrown on my part. Just directness. No other agenda or issue on my part. And polite, in my opinion. My response this time was more assertive and confrontive. I was still confused about what you wanted, and I wanted you to get my point. But, my slight frustration showed, because that's what I felt, and that's the way I write. Still no flame or stones from me, in my view. But my apology for my frustration showing maybe too much and that maybe adding to your defensive posture.

Your response was defensive, and maybe hurt. it seemed to me. You twisted my words into a false accusation, But you also started to get more to a point, though it still seemed foggy to me... Then you threw some small stones, which I, again, addressed politely and directly.

And I again pointed out the pointless question you asked. I didn't call it a stupid question, or call you any names. I simply put it in front of you in a direct way, as is usual for me.

You came back with a flame and some confused reasoning about my attitude.

Listen, I don't pretend to know everything and you know that. But I do have 20 years of living and working directly with Thais-mostly in their language. Experience counts for something, in my book. But it's only my experiences and I'm well aware of that. I'm here to learn as much as to teach or support others here. Your experiences are just as valuable as mine. It's just the judgements of our experiences which can be disagreed about, in my view. I have no chips on my shoulder, and I can always back my words. I feel confident in what I say because I know I'm trying to be honest and not trying to hide something. I'm frank about my feelings and life because it feels like the right thing for me to do, and I have no fears from that. I like being honest and of course I believe what I say. I also invite opposing and differing views. Opposing views force me to look again at my view, and again question my motives...good or bad. That's the b&w for me here. Is what I'm saying a reaction to ill feelings (not being 'clean', in my vernacular)? Or, is my heart in the right place, and if so, I'll just continue on that path. Hey, I'm human, too. I have written here with ill feelings on occasion, but I don't get into insult-wars.

Differing views teach me, for I am a student here, too. I've learned so much from this place, and it is my hope I'm able to repay my lessons learned with something of value I can offer someone else. I'm not asking for accolades. Just honest and reasonable discussions. Strange (to me) questions can throw me off balance sometimes though. 

I'm really trying to be the best person I can in my final years. I will continue to make mistakes, and I will continue to try to make amends when mistakes are made, In this little exchange of ours, I fully accept my responsibilty for my words, but not for your own mistaken interpretations of my words. I certainly could have been less assertive and confrontive with you. That's the downside sometimes for my 'cut to the chase' style. 

Anyway, no hard feelings on my part. I'd still like to get more into your issues...

Is what you're thinking about like how these guys are treated by the courts in various countries? 

In those kinds of cases, it seems that the Thai father rarely has to pay his accounts... Even in marriage, the laws favor the man. If the women screws around, even once, the man can divorce her, no problem. But if the man screws around, the woman must prove 'ongoing support' of a mistress if she wants to take any legal action like divorce. It stands to reason that these same attitudes would be a part of child-custody issues, but I'm just assuming this. I'd be interested in experiences of others in this regard...

Ajarn, I am assuming that you are directing this post at someone else other than me. Am I correct?

[Thaicoon]

No i am not Thai, i am a Brit, and yes if i were a Thai this situation is unusual in Thai culture, as how many Thais from a small village in Essarn could give this child a good education like i am doing, are you thai.................

[mbkudu]

No i am not Thai, i am a Brit, and yes if i were a Thai this situation is unusual in Thai culture, as how many Thais from a small village in Essarn could give this child a good education like i am doing, are you thai.................

Of course I am not Thai. That is why I have started this thread; to get a better understanding of how Thais feel about this.

[Ajarn]

Ajarn, I am assuming that you are directing this post at someone else other than me. Am I correct?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

mbkudu, correct. Sorry for the confusion- and the long, mostly off-topic post. I'm usually less wordy

[Ajarn]

I have a Thai stepdaughter she is now 13, she came to the UK when she was 5, my thai family were very, very, happy that i was taking an interest in the childs wellfare, she could only speak Thai and her thai father who is now dead, hopefully gone to ######, he used to mistreat this child very bad, she is now 13 years old and go's to a boarding school in England as a day scholer costing me 12 gran a year, she now speaks fluent english, german and french and is learning spanish, and when she goes back to Buriram in the summer hol's, our thai family are very proud of her and give me great respect for bringing this little girl up so well and giving her a good education, if you marry a thai lady it is for you to bring her children up, especially if she has a bad thai father, as there are a few out there, some of the advise on stickmans site i do not  think is true, he is just putting things on, that other people have told him or things that may have happened to himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've really gone the extra mile for your kid and your family, and you deserve all the respect you get. I hope that your experience will encourage someone else to do the right thing, too.

[Thaicoon]

I have a Thai stepdaughter she is now 13, she came to the UK when she was 5, my thai family were very, very, happy that i was taking an interest in the childs wellfare, she could only speak Thai and her thai father who is now dead, hopefully gone to ######, he used to mistreat this child very bad, she is now 13 years old and go's to a boarding school in England as a day scholer costing me 12 gran a year, she now speaks fluent english, german and french and is learning spanish, and when she goes back to Buriram in the summer hol's, our thai family are very proud of her and give me great respect for bringing this little girl up so well and giving her a good education, if you marry a thai lady it is for you to bring her children up, especially if she has a bad thai father, as there are a few out there, some of the advise on stickmans site i do not  think is true, he is just putting things on, that other people have told him or things that may have happened to himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've really gone the extra mile for your kid and your family, and you deserve all the respect you get. I hope that your experience will encourage someone else to do the right thing, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks ajarn, I appreciate your post, have a good day.

[Spee]

I am also wondering how Thais view the Farang man who helps raise his wife's child from her previous marriage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My case certainly can't be generalized, but .... My fiancee's daughter has never known a father, with her biological father having been killed in a car crash only a few months after she was born.

With respect to the Thai friends and family, I haven't seen or met anyone who thinks that my becoming her stepfather is a bad thing. They can see that I care for her almost as much as I care for her mother. As for anyone who isn't friends or family, then their opinions don't mean much, just as in the western world.

When she innocently grabs my hand and calls me "Papa" or pulls me down so that she can give me a kiss on the cheek, well I'm sorry, but no amount of social stigma or funny looks can replace those precious moments or the wonderful feeling that she gives me.

I'll help to raise her as if she is my own, and anyone (Thai or falang) who doesn't like it can ... as one other poster so eloquently put it ... piss off.

Chok dee Mbkudu! I hope you find the same happiness and things work out well for you!

[ZOVOX]

When she innocently grabs my hand and calls me "Papa" or pulls me down so that she can give me a kiss on the cheek, well I'm sorry, but no amount of social stigma or funny looks can replace those precious moments or the wonderful feeling that she gives me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know exactly what you mean. To the OP, forget what anybody else thinks - just do what you feel is right !

[Pie Boy]

'Raising other's children' - although I am not my childrens biological father I regard them as my own.Am I respected for others (thai or other)for becoming their father ? I have never thought about it until this thread.Truth is I couldn't care less, the love we have as a family is the greatest feeling in the world.The pride I feel every day when I take my daughter to school is the greatest start to the day a man could ever wish for.I wasn't there for conception but I will be there for the present and for the future.I will be ther for the good and the bad.

I know the OP wanted to know about respect from others ,I hope they realise from a number of posts that the answer to the question is "it doesn't matter".Respect is apreciated if it comes my way but ###### it ain't gonna stop me loving my kids and tryin' to be the best father that I can.

[mbkudu]

I am also wondering how Thais view the Farang man who helps raise his wife's child from her previous marriage.

My case certainly can't be generalized, but .... My fiancee's daughter has never known a father, with her biological father having been killed in a car crash only a few months after she was born.

With respect to the Thai friends and family, I haven't seen or met anyone who thinks that my becoming her stepfather is a bad thing. They can see that I care for her almost as much as I care for her mother. As for anyone who isn't friends or family, then their opinions don't mean much, just as in the western world.

When she innocently grabs my hand and calls me "Papa" or pulls me down so that she can give me a kiss on the cheek, well I'm sorry, but no amount of social stigma or funny looks can replace those precious moments or the wonderful feeling that she gives me.

I'll help to raise her as if she is my own, and anyone (Thai or falang) who doesn't like it can ... as one other poster so eloquently put it ... piss off.

Chok dee Mbkudu! I hope you find the same happiness and things work out well for you!

I wholeheartedly feel the same way you do Spee about this; maybe it's completely a non-issue. I have always admired fathers who take on other's kids without even a second thought. I have never heard of Thais expressing any sort of disdain for taking care of other's children or looking down on others who do, so that's why I was so puzzled by the submission in Stickman. However, we have not had any comments from Thai men here yet, only women and western men.

[astral]

"In Thai society it is considered to be amongst the lowest of dishonourable conduct to raise another man's child, unless of course you are the grandfather."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not at all.

I receive nothing but praise from Thais for taking on my wife's two youngest children.

Aparently most Thai step fathers would not want to know!!

[mbkudu]

"In Thai society it is considered to be amongst the lowest of dishonourable conduct to raise another man's child, unless of course you are the grandfather."

Not at all.

I receive nothing but praise from Thais for taking on my wife's two youngest children.

Aparently most Thai step fathers would not want to know!!

Do not lose track of the thread. I did not say this; I saw it posted on another website. Astral, what you have just said is what I always assumed to be true, but I still have not seen any Thai input on this thread. Have to wait and see I guess.

[mbkudu]

do Thai men look down on it?

I'm not sure if looking down on it is the right phrase. I have discussed this with my thai partner and he certainly said he wouldn't do it and couldn't understand anyone else doing it.

This is as close to an answer as I have got so far from a Thai voice; second hand

info.

[Ajarn]

mbkudu, I'm confused. What are you going to learn or think after a Thai man or woman pipes in with their opinion? Obviously, they're not speaking for all Thais, or anyone except themselves... What if they agree with the sentiments posted on Stickman? So what? I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish here... I mean, as said before, it stands strongly to reason that Thai men will be on both sides of the fence, for any reason you might imagine. And this TV.com might be the wrong place to find the Thai input you're seeking. Pantip.com has many more Thai men around than here...

I think the ancedotal discussions are quite good to read about, and I think a woman living with a Thai man might have better insight into that man's soul than maybe the man himself...

[Richard Hall]

Males that look down (???) (how can they at all with their midget sized appearance) on others that raise children they are not the natural father of are not really "men" is the sense of the word. They are simply said .... (fill the blank as per your preferance). Thai law recognizes this as well and quite often it comes to the point that not the one that f..... but the one that cares is of importance.

Therfore there can only be one conclusion and answer. "Men" do not have that attitude independant from their nationality and for the same reason Thai men do not have a problem with a man raising other's children while .... may have. It's not the little friend and the amount of alcohol you can deal with that makes you a man but rather it is all attitude.

Just my unimportant personal opinion as a simple man.

Edited January 27, 2005 by Richard Hall

[chonabot]

I remember a while ago , on a different thread , Kwiz ( a Sri Lankan) voiced the opinion that he could not take on another man's child.

He expressed admiration for those of us that can do this.

Not Thai , but he may have some views and reasons for them that may uncover a few Asian standpoints.

[Ajarn]

I remember a while ago , on a different thread , Kwiz ( a Sri Lankan) voiced the opinion that he could not take on another man's child.

He expressed admiration for those of us that can do this.

Not Thai , but he may have some views and reasons for them that may uncover a few Asian standpoints.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that's an interesting point, that this attitude might more prevelant in Asian societies than in the west. I'd like to hear more about why these men feel that they couldn't raise someone elses kid. I wonder if there's any real research out there...?

[Gazza]

I would've thought that a lot of Thai men wouldn't have the financial means to support another man's child. Isn't this one of the most probable reasons for leaving a woman in the lurch holding a kid in the first place?

How many farangs living in Thailand would take on a wife with kids if he was making only 5-8,000b a month?

Edited January 27, 2005 by Gazza

[mbkudu]

I would've thought that a lot of Thai men wouldn't have the financial means to support another man's child. Isn't this one of the most probable reasons for leaving a woman in the lurch holding a kid in the first place?

How many farangs living in Thailand would take on a wife with kids if he was making only 5-8,000b a month?

Eh?? A man might be able to afford to support two, three wives, but not a stepchild?

Hmm... I'm afraid that over my short time on this earth so far I've come to the conclusion that all cultures and people are not the same or individually different, if that makes any sense. In other words there are reasons for generalisations in culture because tradition in each culture is handed down from generation to generation and more often than not tradition will be adhered to with the odd rebel breaking out of the cultural mold and going his own way.

Edited January 27, 2005 by mbkudu

[mbkudu]

I remember a while ago , on a different thread , Kwiz ( a Sri Lankan) voiced the opinion that he could not take on another man's child.

He expressed admiration for those of us that can do this.

Not Thai , but he may have some views and reasons for them that may uncover a few Asian standpoints.

Yes, that's an interesting point, that this attitude might more prevelant in Asian societies than in the west. I'd like to hear more about why these men feel that they couldn't raise someone elses kid. I wonder if there's any real research out there...?

Ajarn, now I am confused from your statement. I bring up a point for discussion and you see no validity in it and wonder what I could ever get from an answer.

Now you seem interested and wonder if a study has ever been conducted. What gives mate?

[bina]

i re-iterate:

some may be just male genetic instinct (kid does not have my genes, so dont want to protect/nurture; he is not of my flesh and blood) and this has been artificially re -adjusted in western society to the point of extremism.... as women are supposedly automatically 'motherly' and will nurture any child, men have to have a 'evolutionary' reason to nurture progenitor not his...

i am not saying the thai men are like animals, rather that they are still closer to what most societies used to be like, and the west seems to have moved intellectually away from 'nature' and gone on to 'mind'.(ex: same sex marriages, etc....)..it seems that in the 'west' as we call it, many attitudes, for good or bad, or 'artificially' changed to 'improve' the situation:

other ex: attitude towards 'children w/special needs' or handicapped in other words the 'politically corrected' attitude vs. the original cultural norms that may have a logical reason behind them in the past but now adays dont and these reasons are forgotten....(saw lotrs of kids w/spec. needs but the teachers treated them as idiots-- this in small towns, and this was the samw in israel for a long time, and still is in arab/beduin areas.and many other ethnic jewish groups... we are still considered third world and asian oriented when it comes to norms)

maybe economic neccessity creates norms that can be changed or improved as economics improve...or the norms were created and now are not neccessary but people dont remember the original reasoning behind the norm: arranged marriages, dowries, the old chinese way of raising a young girl by her prospective mother in law so the bride will automatically understand and obey her new family, etc..... i would have to check with anthropoligal sources which i dont have access here to do....the halachic law that says i automatically get custody on my girls but on my boy, if he was over the age of three, could be taken from me and given to my ex (if my ex wanted to use this law) (a jewish boy over the age of three is expected to learn to be a man and do 'man' things that a woman cant do....)

so these neccessities become norms and then ingrained in a culture....

sorry long winded but difficult to explain and in general an interesting topic to discuss w/o the personal bickering or judging.... i personally would like to know more;

thanx to whomever started the thread, i lost track....

[Ajarn]

I would've thought that a lot of Thai men wouldn't have the financial means to support another man's child. Isn't this one of the most probable reasons for leaving a woman in the lurch holding a kid in the first place?

How many farangs living in Thailand would take on a wife with kids if he was making only 5-8,000b a month?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh?? A man might be able to afford to support two, three wives, but not a stepchild?

Hmm... I'm afraid that over my short time on this earth so far I've come to the conclusion that all cultures and people are not the same or individually different, if that makes any sense. In other words there are reasons for generalisations in culture because tradition in each culture is handed down from generation to generation and more often than not tradition will be adhered to with the odd rebel breaking out of the cultural mold and going his own way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Traditions, yes, but generalizations about traditions, especially by the ill-informed, is a dangerous but convenient road for many to follow, and I feel the more one chooses to generalize about groups of people, the more one tends to move further away from reasoned thinking and fairness. None of us are robots. We are capable of indvidual thoughts, actions- and traditions. I'd rather look at anyone as an individual, not as a part of some larger group. I'm pretty powerless with the larger group, but I can more easily affect, and be affected by, individuals. My life and interests are focused around individuals, not groups.... With individuals, I often have an almost 100% chance of knowing them with accuracy, but with groups I have an almost 100% chance of not knowing them accurately... Where should my energies and priorities be?

Edited January 27, 2005 by Ajarn

[bina]

I'd rather look at anyone as an individual, not as a part of some larger group. I'm pretty powerless with the larger group, but I can more easily affect, and be affected by, individuals. My life and interests are focused around individuals, not groups....

ajarn, that is why you are a teacher (i assume?); i like to learn about the individual within the group: that is why i work in a zoo and why i studied ethnography bla blabla in my younger days... as i am a (non native) kibbutz member i am more than aware of the differences between the individual and the group but the group affects the individual ....any lets skip the sociology etc..

ravisher, im glad you as a man agree with me and my (not very original) theory

but generalizations about traditions, especially by the ill-informed, is a dangerous but convenient road for many to follow

(ajarn)

and most people following one tradition or an other are equally ill informed, they just tend to follow, and are hard pressed to explain why the things are done...

[haha]

my 2 cents...

when you make generalizations about people, you are expressing discrimination.

discrimination is a problem in this world. in the extreme, it is termed "racist".

most people who display "racist" attitudes are not aware that they are being "racist". many when told they are racist will say that there is nothing wrong with being racist.

awareness is the solution. reaching the "next level".

the journey starts with being curious, and asking questions. understanding the evil inherent in discriminations to the extreme. and yes.

..it is evil.

[chonabot]

my 2 cents...

when you make generalizations about people, you are expressing discrimination.

discrimination is a problem in this world.  in the extreme, it is termed "racist".

most people who display "racist" attitudes are not aware that they are being "racist".  many when told they are racist will say that there is nothing wrong with being racist.

awareness is the solution.  reaching the "next level".

the journey starts with being curious, and asking questions.  understanding the evil inherent in discriminations to the extreme.  and yes.

..it is evil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Racist is a word you clearly do not understand.

[thaihome]

My wife's older sister (by about 10 years) was adopted by her father when he married her mother. This was in the early 1970's.

He then fathered 4 more children (1 dying shortly after birth). He died of cancer 4 years ago, and from the ceremonies held, it was obvious he was held in high regard by the entire village.

TH