Thailand Live Friday 11 October 2024

[Drew Aitch]

Hi Forum, i'm looking for an ultra thin e-reader.

I'm going to do the rounds in the next couple of days, but before i do, does anyone know of a place in Chiang Mai where you can purchase an ultra slim e-reader something like this?

Thanks in advance

Aitch

[FolkGuitar]

Hi Forum, i'm looking for an ultra thin e-reader.

I'm going to do the rounds in the next couple of days, but before i do, does anyone know of a place in Chiang Mai where you can purchase an ultra slim e-reader something like this?

Thanks in advance

Aitch

You might not find it IN Chiang Mai, but the Sony PRS-505 is ultra thin, as light as a thick paperback, holds about 150 full size books in its internal memory of 220M, has space for two memory cards. You can use one for MP3's if you'd like, and listen to music while you read. The battery lasts roughly 7,000 page-turns before needing a recharge (unless you are listening to music,) recharges in about 4-5 hours from the USB on a computer or much faster using an AC charger. (The Sony PSP chargers are a LOT cheaper than the reader chargers and work just as well!) The screen is as readable as a paper book in everything other than complete darkness, has little glare, page turns are as fast as a paper book, and the best part is that there are 500,000 e-books already available FREE from Project Guttenberg US, Project Guttenberg Canada, Project Guttenberg Australia, and a host of other sites. You can purchase new releases from Amazon, Sony, and a dozen other E-book locations on the net, and download them instantly. There are far more available as p2p torrents should you wish to use them. (By the way, the 505 is far better than the newer 700! People are offereing to trade 700's for 505's all over e-book forums. Keep away from Amazon's 'Kindle' unless you are going to be in the US. You wind up paying an extra $150 for a feature you can't use from outside the USA.)

I couldn't find any good sized reader IN Chiang Mai, but it was easy enough (and only took a week) to have one shipped abroad.

UG, if you're reading this, it would be a good idea to investigate this new development in reading. It is quickly becoming the medium of choice for travelers as one can carry a bunch of books at one time, not having to deal with the space or weight of them when traveling. I have 162 books in my reader at the moment, including a dictionary, thesaurus, and travel guides. They all fit into the outside pocket of my bag. I was simply amazed when I began investigating this new development at how extensive it already is. There are dozens of different readers available, quite literally a million books, (fiction, non-fiction, text books, technical books... in fact, with a good reader, any pdf or .txt file can be used too,) and half a hundred sites selling e-books already. These numbers have jumped exponentially in the past two years.

Edited April 19, 2009 by FolkGuitar

[Ulysses G.]

UG, if you're reading this, it would be a good idea to investigate this new development in reading. It is quickly becoming the medium of choice for travelers as one can carry a bunch of books at one time, not having to deal with the space or weight of them when traveling.

I will certainly keep my eye on the whole phenomenon, but I have to admit that I have my doubts about electric books overtaking printed ones during the next 20 years and so do a lot of publishers and others in the industry that I have talked with.

I have been an avid reader all of my life, and the only thing that I might want one of these for is for traveling and even that puts me off in many ways. If one is not a big reader, I don't see the attraction, and there are just not that many big readers out there.

I am no fortune teller, so the best thing to do is just watch and see, but I am betting that the classic printed book will continue to dominate the industry for some time.

[Drew Aitch]

Thanks for that FolkGuitar

I'm not sure, but i think the one you mention is more paperback size and thickness? What i'm after really after is the bigger than A4 size super thin job that can fit a lot of text onto an e-page. They're the new generation of e-readers. Here's a side view of a typical modern e-reader.

I think you're right that i may not be able to find in CM or Thailand come to that. but you never know. Most new innovations are slow to arrive here, and we'll probably see copied goods turn up before the real McCoy.

Cheers

Aitch

[FolkGuitar]

Thanks for that FolkGuitar

I'm not sure, but i think the one you mention is more paperback size and thickness? What i'm after really after is the bigger than A4 size super thin job that can fit a lot of text onto an e-page. They're the new generation of e-readers. Here's a side view of a typical modern e-reader.

I think you're right that i may not be able to find in CM or Thailand come to that. but you never know. Most new innovations are slow to arrive here, and we'll probably see copied goods turn up before the real McCoy.

Cheers

Aitch

You're right. The Sony and the Kindle are both paperback size, (with the Sony screen a bit larger than the Kindle,) but the thickness is as your photo shows. As thin as a good quality magazine. Nat Geo, for example. The Sony that I use has three screen font sizes available, and will show a full page of text (paperback book size) in each frame if one wishes. My old eyes usually require the medium font instead... roughly 8-10pt to be a comfortable read. For PDF files of technical stuff, I have to use some free software (Calibre) to convert it to a more readable format. Your A4 size reader screens shouldn't have that problem.

[FolkGuitar]

UG, if you're reading this, it would be a good idea to investigate this new development in reading. It is quickly becoming the medium of choice for travelers as one can carry a bunch of books at one time, not having to deal with the space or weight of them when traveling.

I will certainly keep my eye on the whole phenomenon, but I have to admit that I have my doubts about electric books overtaking printed ones during the next 20 years and so do a lot of publishers and others in the industry that I have talked with.

I have been an avid reader all of my life, and the only thing that I might want one of these for is for traveling and even that puts me off in many ways. If one is not a big reader, I don't see the attraction, and there are just not that many big readers out there.

I am no fortune teller, so the best thing to do is just watch and see, but I am betting that the classic printed book will continue to dominate the industry for some time.

I agree. It will be some time before, if ever, e-books 'take over' the industry. But if the trend continues to grow at the same rate it has for the past three years, I think it will be more like 10 rather than 20 years before the booksellers feel the crunch, but that will be for 'new' books rather than used. Already Project Guttenberg has donated it's entire library to the Sony Bookstore, converted to the Sony format, for free download. This same bookstore is also offering new releases for free... Patterson, Child, etc. that I've noticed. They are really trying to build up the reader base.

[Ulysses G.]

If they can continue to give away new books, by the best authors, for free, they will take over the market in no time, but most businesses are out to make a profit and I do not think that they are any

different.

[FolkGuitar]

If they can continue to give away new books, by the best authors, for free, they will take over the market in no time, but most businesses are out to make a profit and I do not think that they are any

different.

"Loss leaders?" One site I found gave away Lee Child's newest 'Jack Reacher' book as a 'pre-release.' I don't think it's even out in paper yet! Right now the Sony e-book store is giving away 'Persuader' by Lee Child (older but still fairly recent,) 'The King of Lies' by John Hurt, and 'His Majesty's Dragon' by Naomi Novik. Actually, a total of 27 free e-books, (along with 400,000 of the Project Guttenbergs titles that PG donated to Sony in Sony's proprietary format.)

The vendors are clambering for business, undercutting each other viciously. It worked in the US with TV's, stereo's, watches, and cars, now all markets that are dominated by a country that didn't hesitate to take a short term profit loss for a long term profit gain. Try naming just ONE American-owned television manufacturer in business today. When we were kids there were a dozen of them. The Casio watch I bought in Key West for $50 costs $150 in the country where it was made. Short term loss for long term gain. Drive out the competition by selling at a loss, dominate the market and raise the prices back up. It's been going on for years. Although we Americans were very, very aware 'dumping' was going on with the auto industry, we focused on it solely and paid no attention to the fact that it was going on in several different industries at the same time. So while the Japanese did make 'some' concessions regarding auto pricing for fair trade, at the same time they wiped out the entire US TV, stereo, ... the entire electronic entertainment market! And we never even noticed it happening. We were too busy focusing on the auto market.

When the founder of Sony retired some years ago, at his retirement 'party' he gave a speech. His most memorable line in that speech was;

"Let us never lose sight of our 500 year plan!"

Edited April 19, 2009 by FolkGuitar

[Ulysses G.]

Luckily for us, the Japanese get so focused on their 500 year plans, that they screw up their short term ones. 20 years ago, who would have believed that they would have gone downhill so quickly?

[jdcnx]

Glad to see this topic here, as I've been looking into and researching such devices in the past few weeks.

Unfortunately, from everything I've seen about, it is very hard to find anything in the local market here in Thailand/SEAsia in general. Even the Sony eReaders are available only in North American/European markets (not on the market in Japan).

Regarding full-paged eReaders, I've only seen one which is already available on the market. It seems substantially thicker than any of the demo photos you've linked here. That would be the iRex Digital Reader. (google iRex Technologies). Seems like a nice enough unit, has annotation capabilities and wifi connectivity built in. Sadly, the firmware has been reported to be a bit buggy and the unit is far too expensive for my tastes, currently hovering around 600 Euro.

I'm making a trip back to the states in the next month or so and am seriously considering going for the Sony 700 series. The big selling point for me on that one is the ability to add annotations on a PDF file, which is invaluable for me at work, and is something that the 505 series does not feature.

I highly recommend checking out the MobileRead forums, (can't post URLs, but google it and you should find them), particularly the 'Which One Should I Buy?' forum. Lots of helpful information in there. Again, nothing that you will be able to find in the local market, but will most likely have to arrange shipping from outside the country.

In the instance anyone comes across any vendors in Thailand/CNX that do carry these, please make mention of it here.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm making a trip back to the states in the next month or so and am seriously considering going for the Sony 700 series. The big selling point for me on that one is the ability to add annotations on a PDF file, which is invaluable for me at work, and is something that the 505 series does not feature.

I've notice quite a few people who upgraded from the 505 to the 700 have gone back to the 505. They cite clarity and glare as their reasons. I use the 505 and love it, but I have no need for the features that you need. I find 'some' pdf files come out really nicely, while others are monsters!! Any sort of heavy gaphic inserts, such as tables, cause the files to run amuk! If I were buying one for mainly pdf files, I'd stick with the larger screen size so there would be no need to re-size and justify around the graphics.

. Again, nothing that you will be able to find in the local market, but will most likely have to arrange shipping from outside the country.

SonyUSA won't ship out of the country, but SonyCanada will. Amazon deals with SonyUSA and follows Sony's rules. Same problem occurs when you register with SonyBooks. If you use a non-USA address or card, Sony won't sell to you. That being said, there are plenty of third party vendors who will ship readers overseas, (I received mine in less than one week from the date of order,) and plenty of on-line e-book vendors selling to everyone regardless of location. One problem with trying to download books from Thailand is slow internet speeds. Be sure you have access to a really reliable high-speed download.

[FolkGuitar]

Luckily for us, the Japanese get so focused on their 500 year plans, that they screw up their short term ones. 20 years ago, who would have believed that they would have gone downhill so quickly?

They really are in the hurt locker right now. Between an aging society, low birth-rate, and difficult world trade, Japan is feeling something it hasn't felt since the end of W.W. II.

[Greenside]

I will certainly keep my eye on the whole phenomenon, but I have to admit that I have my doubts about electric books overtaking printed ones during the next 20 years and so do a lot of publishers and others in the industry that I have talked with.

I remember talking to a minilab operator in the UK who said something similar about accepting digital photographs only about five years ago. When I went back the year before last he'd turned the place into a sandwich shop. I'm going back again in a few weeks and will see if applied the same keen foresight to the new enterprise....

Actually, his bacon rolls were pretty darn good so maybe he's doing OK

To the OP: I have the feeling that the readers you pictured are not yet commercially available. The Plastic Logic technology isn't due for preliminary roll out until the middle of this year so anything remotely affordable won't be available for quite a while yet I fear.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Greenside

[Ulysses G.]

I don't claim to be a fortune teller, but up until now, e books have been a big failure. The thing is, in retrospect, we all have have great foresight.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[Drew Aitch]

To the OP: I have the feeling that the readers you pictured are not yet commercially available. The Plastic Logic technology isn't due for preliminary roll out until the middle of this year so anything remotely affordable won't be available for quite a while yet I fear.

Alsa I think you might be right. They're being pushed and promoted all over the place right now though, even on the BBC's Click program. The new ones are even thinner, brighter, and lighter, than the images I pointed to earlier. They're so thin in fact, that the actually bend in your hand.

Ulysses G, they're not only for reading books but also great for storing electronic copies of paper documents. You see those big fat black bags that many business travelers lug around with them? Well, they're often crammed with folders and papers of all kinds, yet a zillion copies of everything in their bags could be loaded onto a thin flexible e-reader.

Also, the Newspaper industry is suffering right now, and so e-readers might work well for them too. It's gotta make reading the Financial Times, or other huge newspapers that folks battle with on the trains, a whole lot easier to browse through, plus the reader doesn't get covered in printers ink!

I wouldn't mind betting that this is going to be one product that Thailand may well be copying before long?!

Aitch

[FolkGuitar]

To the OP: I have the feeling that the readers you pictured are not yet commercially available. The Plastic Logic technology isn't due for preliminary roll out until the middle of this year so anything remotely affordable won't be available for quite a while yet I fear.

Alsa I think you might be right. They're being pushed and promoted all over the place right now though, even on the BBC's Click program. The new ones are even thinner, brighter, and lighter, than the images I pointed to earlier. They're so thin in fact, that the actually bend in your hand.

My e-reader measures less than one centimeter thick. I made it a bit thicker with a leather cover just to be more comfortable to hold.

Ulysses G, they're not only for reading books but also great for storing electronic copies of paper documents. You see those big fat black bags that many business travelers lug around with them? Well, they're often crammed with folders and papers of all kinds, yet a zillion copies of everything in their bags could be loaded onto a thin flexible e-reader.

Besides about 150 books, I also keep a copy of Webester's dictionary, Roget's thesaurus, a copy of the I Ching, Ta Te Ching, The Art of War, and a Bible in mine. (This is just on the reader's internal memory.) I like to read 3 or 4 books at the same time, depending upon my mood at the time of day, and this makes it very easy to carry them all with me. The e-reader keeps track of the last page that I read for each, so no problem getting back to where I need to be. When I finish one, I just delete it (to make the reader lighter... . ) and begin another. I could carry another 2,000-3,000 or so books on memory cards, but I chose to use my memory cards for music to listen to while I read.

Also, the Newspaper industry is suffering right now, and so e-readers might work well for them too. It's gotta make reading the Financial Times, or other huge newspapers that folks battle with on the trains, a whole lot easier to browse through, plus the reader doesn't get covered in printers ink!

This seems to be a very popular subject for e-readers. It's not a feature I use, but most e-reader software can do an automatic daily download of all the major newspapers. Amazon's reader, the "Kindle II" can do this wirelessly, automatically, and with many newspapers, for free! Most public libraries in major cities in the US and Europe are offering both newspapers and books as e-downloads already. The New York Public Library is charging $100 UDS per year for non-residents for this service.

I wouldn't mind betting that this is going to be one product that Thailand may well be copying before long?!

I was one of the last holdouts for film photography. I simply believed that digital was a passing fad that couldn't (and wouldn't) compete with film. Then I bought a digital camera and never shot another roll of film. The shop on the end of Neimanheiman Street that used to process me film didn't think digital would last either. That shop is closed now. The complete transition only took a couple of years. I didn't believe it until I tried it. I didn't think e-book reading would be any different than trying to read a book from a computer screen, but it is. Very different. E-book readers don't use the same technology as computer monitors. They use something called "E-Ink" which is much, much sharper and easier to read than an LCD screen. Reading a computer screen for an hour hurts my eyes. Reading my e-book reader for a couple of hours feels no different than reading a p-book.

It's going to take considerably longer time for e-books to catch on in Thailand for several reasons. One, books are cheaper in Thailand, and easily available. Internet connections are slower in Thailand making downloading new books more difficult for many people. The initial cost for an e-book reader is high. But... for the traveler coming through Thailand.... I think you will see more and more of them with e-book readers. They can carry all their reading for a year in something the size of a paperback book, including their guidebooks. They are coming from First World Countries where e-book reading is more commonplace. It's not a new technology for them. I think that if the major libraries are already handling them, and the world's biggest on-line book seller is handling them, that this is something that is going to be around for a while.

[orang37]

The thing is, in retrospect, we all have have great foresight.

Hola-bola Pee Ulysses,

This makes me want to weep for the nights I sat around in the tree with Oum-Poppa-Doc-Orang, the famous Poet : this reminds me so much of one of his jewel-like aphorisms. In other words, I and I like it.

If you had said such a diamond of pith in Kalimantan during one of our annual pithing contests, you would have been crowned Favorite Orang Idol instanter, with many bananas and comely-hitherly Orang-Outanginas your well-deserved rewards.

I am sure, now, you are an initiate of Ur-Orang to at least second melon level ! Next time I eyeball you I will make the secret sign to see if your ears blush as I think they will.

~o:37;

Edited April 20, 2009 by orang37

[orang37]

Well, speaking of the "future of books," and e-readers and all that : just saw this on NYT on-line :

"When Pixels Find New Life on Real Paper

By NOAM COHEN

Published: April 19, 2009"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/business/media/20link.html

excerpt from copyrighted New York Times on-line article :

"In fact, the xkcd story previews the much more likely future of books in which they are prized as artifacts, not as mechanisms for delivering written material to readers. This is print book as vinyl record — admired for its look and feel, its cover art, and relative permanence — but not so much for convenience."

~o:37;

[Ulysses G.]

The initial cost for an e-book reader is high. But... for the traveler coming through Thailand.... I think you will see more and more of them with e-book readers. They can carry all their reading for a year in something the size of a paperback book, including their guidebooks.

This is also possibly a negative for long term travelers. I know that I hate carrying a notebook computer because I am so worried about it being stolen. I end up staying in much more expensive places that have safety boxes and am always thinking about how to protect it when traveling from place to place.

An e-book is fairly expensive to start with, but loaded it with a years worth of reading, would push the value way up for me. I know that you can get certain things for cheap or free, but that just isn't what I want to read when I am reading constantly. I want to read what I want to read and it is hardly ever cheap.

The point is that if you lose a couple of great books that you got brand new from Kinokuniya in Bangkok, you are going to be unhappy, but a years worth of good reading on an expensive machine is almost a disaster. Staying in more expensive hotels and worrying about it all the time does not sound all that great to me.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[FolkGuitar]

The initial cost for an e-book reader is high. But... for the traveler coming through Thailand.... I think you will see more and more of them with e-book readers. They can carry all their reading for a year in something the size of a paperback book, including their guidebooks.

This is also possibly a negative for long term travelers. I know that I hate carrying a notebook computer because I am so worried about it being stolen. I end up staying in much more expensive places that have safety boxes and am always thinking about how to protect it when traveling from place to place.

An e-book is fairly expensive to start with, but loaded it with a years worth of reading, would push the value way up for me. I know that you can get certain things for cheap or free, but that just isn't what I want to read when I am reading constantly. I want to read what I want to read and it is hardly ever cheap.

The point is that if you lose a couple of great books that you got brand new from Kinokuniya in Bangkok, you are going to be unhappy, but a years worth of good reading on an expensive machine is almost a disaster. Staying in more expensive hotels and worrying about it all the time does not sound all that great to me.

These are all valid points, and I agree that they will impact the decision making process for travelers. Probably just as much as losing a pocket camera would. Roughly the same price points. I wonder how many travelers have elected not to bring their cameras when they travel because of the fear of theft? Or, both being small and light weight, they simply keep them in the front pocket of their daypacks. I will certainly agree that the theft potential is higher than for p-books.

It will be interesting to review this thread a year from now and see if we notice any differences in the marketplace. Are digital e-books the reading medium of the future, or just a passing fad? Two million dollars in sales in 2004, ten million in the first quarter of 2008, and seventeen million dollars in sales in last quarter of 2008. Perhaps a rapid rise followed by just as rapid a fall... No matter which, we're going to find out!

[Drew Aitch]

I have to agree that there is something warm and comforting about holding a physical paper book, or any publication come to that. Then again, they said that about vinyl when CD's first tried to muscle in on playable music. Many said the sound was too sterile, over clean, and would be little more than a passing fad. Anyone know where to by a 45?

But books have been around almost since the dawn of time, and so I think that we're going to see these two things living comfortably side by side once all the hoo-haar has settled down.

After all, many people not only love the feel of books, but the looks of them too, especially a smart volume. Those folks who have book cabinets, or a nice study in their home, could hardly ornate their decorative shelves with e-books now, could they!

Yep, they will definitely have an impact on the sale of books, especially initially, but I still think books will be in abundance for generations to come, only they'll be sharing the market with their electronic brothers.

Aitch

[Ulysses G.]

I have to agree that there is something warm and comforting about holding a physical paper book, or any publication come to that. Then again, they said that about vinyl when CD's first tried to muscle in on playable music. Many said the sound was too sterile, over clean, and would be little more than a passing fad. Anyone know where to by a 45?

Do not forget that we were pretty much tricked into switching to CDs. Most the advantages that we were promised turned out to be blatant lies.

Do CDs last forever, as we were told? Are they impossible to scratch? Do they sound better than LPs? Have they gone way down in price as we were told they would?

None of those things was true and we fell for it the first time. The question is, are we gioing to fall for it over and over again?

Edited April 20, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[FolkGuitar]

I have to agree that there is something warm and comforting about holding a physical paper book, or any publication come to that. Then again, they said that about vinyl when CD's first tried to muscle in on playable music. Many said the sound was too sterile, over clean, and would be little more than a passing fad. Anyone know where to by a 45?

Do not forget that we were pretty much tricked into switching to CDs. Most the advantages that we were promised turned out to be blatant lies.

Do CDs last forever, as we were told? Are they impossible to scratch? Do they sound better than LPs? Have they gone way down in price as we were told they would?

None of those things was true and we fell for it the first time. The question is, are we gioing to fall for it over and over again?

Let's see... We fell for CD's, we fell for processed foods, we fell for the 8-track tape player, we fell for monthly fashion changes, we fell for Interstates and Freeways wiping many small towns right off the map, we fell for WalMarts despite wiping out mom 'n pop stores that were around for generations, we fell for Prozac, we fell for the Hyundai and the Pinto, we fell for the Patriot Act, we fell for the 'I'm not a bar girl. I'm a bookkeeper who gets three months vacation four times a year,' we fell for 'my father needs an operation,' we fell for 'my little sister's school just raised the tuition, we fell for 'of course I'll stop working in the bar while you're gone,' ..... Yeah, I think we will fall for things over and over and over again. But I'm an optimist. If I wasn't, I'd think things would be getting even worse.

[Ulysses G.]

Good examples.

Who was it that said, "There's a sucker born every minute"?

[orang37]

Sawasdee, Khrup,

An interestingly evolving discussion.

Perhaps relevant is the Gartner Group's theory of "cycles of adoption" of new technologies :

http://www.gartner.com/pages/story.php.id.8795.s.8.jsp

As a person who grew up loving books, with no teevee until around age eleven or twelve (when we got our first little oval six by nine inch black and white window into the strange world of : Groucho, "I Remember Mama," "The Westinghouse Theater," "The Honeymooners," "What's My Line") : my main thing with technology was with radio serials. And by age twelve I had built my first little short-wave radio from a Heathkit, and was listening (long after my parents thought I was asleep) to voices from all over the planet.

I think I share with Khun Ulysses a deeply ingrained "bonding" with books as special, precious, as well as practiical and portable. For me paper, print, typefaces, ink are "holy icons" in the temple of intellect.

I find myself really unable to enjoy reading "deep content" (fiction, poetry, history) on the computer in spite of having premium equipment which is remarkably "hi fi" visually compared to what was available even only five years ago. But, for modes of studying technology, reading news, and research, the age of Google has converted me into a fan-atic web-orang. And for enabling serious talks via e-mail with friends old and new across all barriers instantly, well, yeah, I'm a convert (but I don't yet, and will never "twitter").

The latest research in neuro-biology shows how remarkably "plastic" our neural systems are, how capable of adaptation to injury, how re-wireable. I don't doubt that a new generation has come along, grown up on teevee, internet, ipods, who are, in fact, functioning with differently patterned neural circuitry in which attention span and focus may be qualitatively different (and I don't mean this in any negative way) than say Khun U.'s and mine ... as qualitatively different as Khun U.'s and my brains are from Kalihari hunter-gatherers ? Perhaps. And we omit here the existential fact that this human typist is controlled by an Orang Soul whereas I am unsure as yet what possesses Khun U. other than at least one Ur-Gecko entity.

A friend of mine here in Chiang Mai sent me this link recently :

Which, while designed to be sensational, suggests large-scale change ? Or is this just another zombie of Marshal McLuhan plucked from the grave of post-lit-chic and re-animated by Pixar ?

My personal belief is that the wide-dispersal of instantly available content in which traditional categories of media (movies, teevee, internet content, audio, video) will happen over a ten-year to twenty year frame, but will happen, as it's happening now, for a small economic elite ... like the opposite of a tree-line on a mountain above which trees do not grow ? ... and "filter down." For what the "masses" will get : well, take a gander, again, at the street scenes in "Blade Runner" ? Hop over to Tokyo and walk around in Akhibara ? Dig that the six-eight hours a day average the USA kid-of-means spends on a screen is doing something neurally ?

Will it be "Brave New World," or a movie set by Terry Gilliam, or the Eloi vs. the Morlocks ? Or just the human condition to which Ecclesiastes will stay relevant to anyone once they are sixty ? Stay tuned.

Ahhh, time for a bicycle soy milk run, then home, then the divine breast-bean milk, then to get back in bed with a good book. Last best read : "The March" by E. L. Doctorow. A recent humbling experience with a gut-emptying thing (now successfully bunged up, thanks) has reminded me how much the guts are in control of the head

~o:37;

[orang37]

a "postscript" to the previous message (I am unable to edit it after a few minutes it seems) :

A look at the current "state of the art" in on-line readers, and printed book digitization, may be tasty to throw in here :

(using "Turn the Pages" will require you install and your browser support Microsoft's SilverLight technology)

The British Library's facility using "Turn the Page" technology :

http://ttpdownload.bl.uk/app_files/xbap/

Englsh Heritage's Darwin site using "Turn the Page" technology :

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.20235

"Turn the Page" home page :

http://www.turningthepages.com/

Armadillo's home page (makers of "Turn the Page")

http://www.armadillosystems.com/

regards, ~o:37;

[harrry]

I don't claim to be a fortune teller, but up until now, e books have been a big failure. The thing is, in retrospect, we all have have great foresight.

Possbly eboooks in your kind of market are a failure but it is intersting that many universities now have stopped buying many paper books and subscribe to ebook services such as Safari' Personally I like paper books for recreation but there is no doubt the range and timeliness of ebooks for say Computer Programming are attractive.

[FolkGuitar]

I don't claim to be a fortune teller, but up until now, e books have been a big failure. The thing is, in retrospect, we all have have great foresight.

Possbly eboooks in your kind of market are a failure but it is intersting that many universities now have stopped buying many paper books and subscribe to ebook services such as Safari' Personally I like paper books for recreation but there is no doubt the range and timeliness of ebooks for say Computer Programming are attractive.

There IS something 'warm and fuzzy' about reading a p-book, especially on a rainy Sunday, sitting by the fireplace with a good cup of tea or glass of Scotch. There is nothing warm and fuzzy about carrying 15 text books in your backpack running across campus. Years ago, when I first discovered Project Gutenberg, I downloaded a bunch of my old favorites to read on my computer. I got about two pages into Homer's Odyssey and my eyes couldn't take it any more. I imagine the people trying to listen to one of Edison's wax cylinder music tubes felt the same way. Today I listen to the Brandenburg Choncerti using my MP3 player and noise canceling earphones. Times change and technologies evolve. Reading a good quality e-book reader is not the same as reading text on your cell phone. It's more like reading a well made book except that instead of pure white, the pages are just a bit more gray. The text is razor sharp.

Frankly, I don't know that the technology is available yet to make reading technical pdf files with lots of tables and graphics comfortable on anything other than an A4 size screen. They are definitely not something to read on a regular basis on a small screen. That being said, I am extremely comfortable ready text-only pdf files, or pdf files that don't have the text wrapped around the graphics. That works out just fine on my small screen.

This area of technology has just entered its puberty. It had it's infancy only a few short years ago. Perhaps 3 or 4 only. It's already emerging as a young adult. It should come into its majority in less than another 3-4 years. That is FAST, even in the technically advancing age. Whether it continues to grow and mature, or become another beta-max, is yet to be seen. Having spent the last few months with my own e-book reader, and getting very involved with the supporting technology and availability and diversity of reading materials, I lean towards thinking that it is here to stay.

It may turn into just a niche market. On the other hand, have you seen many film cameras for sale in the stores lately? How about turntables? Just as film cameras, record turntables, and 8-cylinder cars are now niche markets, I think in the foreseeable future, books will become a niche market too. Not as quickly as film cameras did, nor as completely as 8-cylinder cars did, but just as surely.

[Ulysses G.]

You certainly could be right; however, one of the biggest reasons that people buy books is the "showoff factor".

How many people do you really thing read Nietzsche cover to cover? People want to decorate their homes with a nice printing and carry the volume around and skim it a little bit to show their friends how clever they are, but very few of them actually digest the whole thing, and most probably don't even intend to. Nietzsche sells very easily and there are lots of authors and titles like this - but the buyer wants to be seen reading him and perhaps pass the book around the table at a trendy restaurant so everyone can look at the blurbs, artwork and synopsis on the cover. An e-book is useless in this regard and will never have this kind of appeal. Of course, after that, the book is placed on the bookshelf at home to show-off to visitors. An e-book is no good for that either.

Maybe, both kinds of books will be around for quite a while?

Edited April 21, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[FolkGuitar]

You certainly could be right; however, one of the biggest reasons that people buy books is the "showoff factor".

Very true. Hence the 'coffee table book.'

How many people do you really thing read Nietzsche cover to cover?

Only God, and he did it only to prove a point to Nietzsche!

People want to decorate their homes with a nice printing and carry the volume around and skim it a little bit to show their friends how clever they are, but very few of them actually digest the whole thing, and most probably don't even intend to.

I think this is VERY true, and sold one heck of a lot of sets of "One Hundred Great Works Of Literature" for publishing companies. I even remember seeing a bookstore in New York City many years ago that offered to 'fill your shelves with beautifully bound books' priced by the linear foot!

Maybe, both kinds of books will be around for quite a while?

That's a fact, Jack! Film didn't die out completely. It's still available. I was looking at some record turntables just the other day in a specialty electronics shop, and there are plenty of muscle cars still on the streets. These all co-exist with the more modern technologies, and will for the foreseeable future. They just aren't the dominant species any more. As I said in a previous post, I think the take-over by e-books will be much slower than we saw with CD's and digital cameras. But then, I still use a flint and steel to light my BBQ grill....