The Air's The Thing

[bhatmasterson]

I have woken up to a clear view of the mountains for almost a week now and it's great!

Forget "for a while," what you do when the air is bad. What are you doing while it's good?

I'm out at 6:00 am for a walk and a jog.

[siamshot]

Took out the bike and did a nice family-ride up to Doi Suthep.

After long time a really nice view at the town again!

Fresh air and peaceful atmosphere. 

[bhatmasterson]

You've given me a good idea for tomorrow. Let's hope it's nothing but clear skies for a good long while.

Took out the bike and did a nice family-ride up to Doi Suthep.

After long time a really nice view at the town again!

Fresh air and peaceful atmosphere. 

[swain]

This is a sad thread ... that we have to celebrate the days when we can breath easy.. wouldn't it be great if this was the rule instead of the exception. Its very nice now..

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Swain, that's ludicrous. Are you even in Chiang Mai?

Please leave if you can't deal with 16.something days of haze a year in March and abslutely stellar clarity the rest of the year. (Rainy season, anyone? Please. )

[swain]

Yes of course.. I have lived here for 6 years... your 16 days seem more like three months to me... but I am not going to argue with the particulate measurements. Just my personal experience. Why move... when I am hopeful that this perception changes.

Swain, that's ludicrous. Are you even in Chiang Mai?

Please leave if you can't deal with 16.something days of haze a year in March and abslutely stellar clarity the rest of the year. (Rainy season, anyone? Please. )

[Scrubber]

I noticed how beautifully clear the sky was when driving through Wing 41 a couple of days ago - so beautiful that I almost crashed admiring the stunning view of Doi Suthep. While the sky is undoubtedly clear at the moment, the air quality is still, unfotunately, hazardous. Check out the following article from Citylife a few years ago, http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=625

Anyway, that aside, I've been enjoying walks around Ang Kaew in CMU - beautiful anytime of the year.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Scrubber

[SoloFlyer]

bha-humbuhg.

Just back from 4 days in Khao Yai, where i spent most of the time coughing up green goflballs and blowing black gold from my nose.

Driving back through Uttaradit and the hills were alive with the sound and smell of fire and smoke.

12 hrs home and the throat was sore, eyes red.

4 fellow travelers all the same.

Its not a SEA problem - its the crap that CM does to itself.

----------------

Now playing: Dave Matthews Band - When the World Ends

via FoxyTunes

Edited April 20, 2009 by SoloFlyer

[Priceless]

Dear, oh dear, oh dear. I was really hoping that we would not have to endure this discussion again until next year

Swain: It's all about how you define what it takes for you to "breathe easy", obviously. If you go by the Thai standard for what is acceptable, the limit is 120 µg/m³ of particulate matter (PM<10). (The US standard allows 150 µg/m³.) According to the Thai standard we have indeed had 16 "bad days" so far this year, and are, in my opinion, unlikely to get any more. This is of course not as good as last year when we only had three "bad days". Two graphs for your enjoyment:

To find your three months of "bad air" so far this year, you'll have to set the limit at 27 µg/m³. That would obviously be way below any existing standard.

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Scrubber: You say that your article is "from Citylife a few years ago". Actually it is more than five years old, and the statistics it "quotes" is about 20 years old. Furthermore, the statistics were in all probability false even then. Unfortunately there is no source given, so I can just give you a statistic with a proper source (The National Cancer Institute of Thailand, http://www.nci.go.th/File_download/Cancer%...0IV/C-II-11.PDF ) that shows a very different picture:

This graph shows the age-standardized incidence of lung cancer in cases/100,000 inhabitants. If you compare this to the graph in the Citylife article, you'll see that there is virtually no relationship between the two. The article is actually extremely doubtful in a number of other respects as well, e.g. Dr Duangchan talks about levels of PM<2.5 pollution, though this has, as far as I've been able to find out, never been measured in Chiang Mai (or in Thailand, for that matter).

On a happier note, the average pollution (PM<10) level in Chiang Mai has actually fallen by a third since 2004 This is apparent from the following graph:

It appears that the people of Chiang Mai have actually been quite successful so far, though a lot more obviously needs to be done.

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SoloFlyer: You say that you spent "4 days in Khao Yai" "coughing up green goflballs and blowing black gold from my nose". You are obviously aware that Khao Yai is in Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat), a looong way from Chiang Mai. I don't have any data for Korat, but the last couple of weeks appear to have been quite good (from a pollution point of view, not politics...) in most of Thailand. I seriously think that you should contact a doctor that you trust for a thorough examination. If you have those kinds of symptoms when the air quality is very good, the reason is probably some underlying condition that needs to be treated, sooner rather than later.

You also state "Driving back through Uttaradit and the hills were alive with the sound and smell of fire and smoke." I don't really see the connection to Chiang Mai but, anyway, here's a map showing fires in Thailand (north of Bangkok) during the last 48 hours ( from http://maps.geog.umd.edu/website/Activefir...redMap=Thailand ):

Doesn't really look like "the hills were alive with the sound and smell of fire", does it?

/ Priceless

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thank you for that. I knew your response would be more comprehensive than I could ever manage.

I really hope we can put this topic to bed now. Anyone with a respiratory condition: quit smoking, and visit your friendly health care professional at Ram or the medical establishment of your choice.

[Mapguy]

Thank you for that. I knew your response would be more comprehensive than I could ever manage.

I really hope we can put this topic to bed now. Anyone with a respiratory condition: quit smoking, and visit your friendly health care professional at Ram or the medical establishment of your choice.

Sorry, Winnie, but no, I can't agree. It is not a matter to be put to bed. The air pollution problem is a serious ongoing general health problem that is very difficult to solve.

The first step is to realize that there is a problem that does affect a lot of people, some quite seriously. I don't find your suggestion very caring. Once before somewhere, you (perhaps not you, but certainly others) have mentioned something like "Move on if you don't like it, at least seasonally." Well, a lot of people can't, Winnie! What about them?

You compliment Priceless and his graphs. Well, I also appreciate the background research he does. I also know from him personally that he has a huge hang up about misuse of descriptive statistics. He and I don't disagree about that; there is indeed a lot of ignorant hyperbole and cheap shot stuff posted on Chiang Mai TV's MANY threads on this topic. But I have some complaints about "hang ups."

Priceless can get awfully stuffy! Take a look at his last "Ho hum, why do I bother!" post above, but mai phen rai; that's just his style from time to time. At the same time, unfortunately, a lot of what he presents is ill-considered and misleading. Looks great! Neat graphs! Well.................., he can collect data (such as it is; that's another issue) and present it in a very readable format, but too often the points he tries to make are really not relevant or helpful --- and often not sympathetic.

As well, if I am not mistaken (and I am not) he is among those who have suggested in one thread or another on this topic that if a person has problems dealing with seasonal pollution in Chiangmai, then he should go somewhere else where there is not a problem. Just consider that suggestion for a moment! Who can do such a thing? Who can just pick up and move with the seasons? Who can not afford such a thing? Is such a suggestion thoughtful?

Many of the graphs provided on all these many (unfortunately unorganized) threads are selective in some ways that lead to misunderstanding, some egregiously so. Often these graphs are not meaningful representations of what the fundamental problems are. Apologists --- perhaps you are one --- grab hold of false straws of data, accurate in a certain way but really not helpful. In short, people should not be snowed. The problem is called, in various forms, lying with statistics. Even when the author is bang on or is thoughtful in his overall view --- he gets very off point and is distressingly short-sighted as to what the actual problem is! Sad! Talent wasted! If I had received such data, its presentation and "analysis" in my lab, I would have had to reject it. "Number crunchers" sometimes, unfortunately, don't have a broad view.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

> Who can just pick up and move with the seasons?

Plenty people do. For starters because they don't like the winter in Europe/USA/etc. Or because they don't like the hot season.

Personal preference. Makes a lot more sense to me than whining about it on a forum every single year in late Feb/March. (Not suggesting that this is what you do, but some people come really very close, see further above.)

Edited April 21, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Mario2008]

Off topic post deleted.

Suggest poster get's a decent night sleep before posting again.

[swain]

Well, for the people that say I dont have anything positive to say about the air quality in Chiang Mai, it is very breathable and comfortable today. I hope we get rain every few days moving forward .. but the problem is just washed away... at the moment... but far from solved.