Degree's V's Diploma's

[BOOKEMDANO]

Hello to you all

A question for those teachers who have been working here "without a degree" in Thailand successfully, and managed to earn a fair wage for their efforts.

I checked "ajarn.com" for news, jobs and any useful information that may help me with this answer but i seem to draw a blank with regards to being able to teach here armed only with a diploma. What experiences have you guys or indeed girls had with this, and what "if any" options are avaliable to us ? Would this also have any bearing on monthly salaries too ?

So that you know where i stand academically, i completed my TEFL course about 4 years ago and my diploma is in English language.

Any input you give will be greatly appreciated

[teacup]

Hmm…I thought the diploma is simply the piece of paper.

Like when you graduate from college, you are a holder of a degree which is a qualification in itself. The piece of paper that you get is a college diploma, but the degree is the level of qualification that you have.

Like on my college diploma says....I have the bachelor degrees..... in Architecture and UrbanPlanning

That’s what I understand

Edited April 24, 2009 by teacup

[BOOKEMDANO]

Hmm…I thought the diploma is simply the piece of paper.

Like when you graduate from college, you are a holder of a degree which is a qualification in itself. The piece of paper that you get is a college diploma, but the degree is the level of qualification that you have.

Like on my college diploma says....I have the degrees in Architecture and UrbanPlanning

That's what I understand

If i were American and those same meanings applied to British curriculum i'd be a happy man. I always undertood (could be wrong) So this question to any British reader who has a diploma/degree. A diploma is basically a stepping stone to a degree, which accounts for half the merit a Diploma would offer to a student.

A diploma takes 2-3 years to complete whilst a degree would take 4-5 years..

In the UK, diploma can refer to several different types of academic qualification. The Diploma of Higher Education is a higher education award below the standard of a bachelor's degree. The term can also refer to a Postgraduate Diploma or to the new 14–19 Diploma to be introduced in England in September 2008. Postgraduate Diploma award is higher than the Bachelor's degree.

[PeaceBlondie]

AFAIK, most Thai schools want a Bachelor degree, nothing less. A TEFL cert is no substitute for a bachelor's

[eek]

So, im confused now, my UK BA is what? If, an American (or someone who went through an American based education system) asks me if I have a degree, they could be asking if I have some kind of diploma? If they say they have a degree, it means what? ..and then what is the equivalent of a UK Degree in America?

[BOOKEMDANO]

AFAIK, most Thai schools want a Bachelor degree, nothing less. A TEFL cert is no substitute for a bachelor's

What does AFAIK mean ?

I understand and strongly agree that a TEFL is no substitue for a bachelors degree. I never gave any suggestion that it was !!

I simply would like like to know if my English Diploma would score me a job in Thailand or not. I threw the mention of TEFL certificate in there because some schools require this at an absolute prerequisite before you could even walk through the door.

So here i am a native English speaker, Tefl + diploma in hand and my chances of getting a job here is slim..

Am i too believe that ALL teachers here in Thailand, and whom are currently teaching here, hold a Bachelors degree ?

Whilst i strongly agree that schools here should and do hold a high expectation from their foreign teachers. After all would you want just "anybody" teaching your kid ? I am curious as to know how many teachers out there are actively teaching without a bachelors degree ?

[Phatcharanan]

Hello to you all

A question for those teachers who have been working here "without a degree" in Thailand successfully, and managed to earn a fair wage for their efforts.

I checked "ajarn.com" for news, jobs and any useful information that may help me with this answer but i seem to draw a blank with regards to being able to teach here armed only with a diploma. What experiences have you guys or indeed girls had with this, and what "if any" options are avaliable to us ? Would this also have any bearing on monthly salaries too ?

So that you know where i stand academically, i completed my TEFL course about 4 years ago and my diploma is in English language.

Any input you give will be greatly appreciated

If you recently visited the above website then you will be aware that the owner is stating that job vacancies are well down on last year for many reasons, the recession only being one of them.

Government schools are cutting back on their "hires", in part because of the governments new policy of free education for more age groups.

Corporates are cutting back on their training budgets (reportedly).

More ads are appearing where schools are asking for degrees or even Ed degrees.

Whilst it is still possible to get work as a "diploma" holder, it is getting tougher. It would be easier to score a job out in the sticks with your quals. If you have the opportunity to progress to degree status, take it.

PS. AFAIK is an acronym for "As far as I know".

Edited April 24, 2009 by Phatcharanan

[eek]

What does AFAIK mean ?

"As far as I know".

[BOOKEMDANO]

If you recently visited the above website then you will be aware that the owner is stating that job vacancies are well down on last year for many reasons, the recession only being one of them.

Government schools are cutting back on their "hires", in part because of the governments new policy of free education for more age groups.

Corporates are cutting back on their training budgets (reportedly).

More ads are appearing where schools are asking for degrees or even Ed degrees.

Whilst it is still possible to get work as a "diploma" holder, it is getting tougher. It would be easier to score a job out in the sticks with your quals. If you have the opportunity to progress to degree status, take it.

PS. AFAIK is an acronym for "As far as I know".

I am considering taking an open university course where i can progess to my bachelors degree. In time, hopefully as you mention "the recession" might have had time to level out and given everyone a break. So it might be worthwhile me considering language schools for the next few years. At least that way i would have improved my Thai, gained some valuable experience and thus armed with the tools of the trade step out into the big wide world of teaching..

Whatever school i do eventually find myself teaching at though in the future. AIR-CON classrooms will be high on the wish list !!

[Phatcharanan]

I am considering taking an open university course where i can progess to my bachelors degree. In time, hopefully as you mention "the recession" might have had time to level out and given everyone a break. So it might be worthwhile me considering language schools for the next few years. At least that way i would have improved my Thai, gained some valuable experience and thus armed with the tools of the trade step out into the big wide world of teaching..

Whatever school i do eventually find myself teaching at though in the future. AIR-CON classrooms will be high on the wish list !!

Also consider the University of Leicester. They do distance learning and some of the courses`may be more suited to a career in teaching ESL/EFL.

[puchooay]

I am a teacher with,shall we say, qualifications that don't quite make the grade. Having followed advice from the local Education office,who are happy to let me teach due to past experience, I went to the teachers council in Bangkok and asked for a "letter of exemption" from needing a teacher licence.

In order to get this letter I needed a letter from the director of my school explaining that(tongue in cheek) I was the best teacher ever, they love me to bits, I am happy to teach for less money so that they can afford me and basically that the world would stop turning if I left. I was granted this letter and now have new extention of stay and WP.

Not too sure about someone trying to get their first job.The powers that be seem to lean towards experience in the absence of good quals.

So in answer to the post I believe it is possible and legal to teach without a Bachelor Degree. As previously mentioned you have to be less picky about salary and location.

I am lucky that I teach in my wife's home town so can live on less money as I don't have large bills(no rent) to pay.

Off the original post a little but I don't understand why so many people are saying that Government schools are cutting back because of free education.

Education upto 18years old in Governments school has been free for along time.

The difference now is that books will be loaned and not sold and there is assistance with uniforms and pens,pencils etc.

My daughter recieved 360 baht for the uniforms and 185 for pens and stuff. I don't think this is really having an effect on the hiring of teachers as this money is coming from the Government and foreign teachers are paid from school coffers.

Anyway. Hope you find this post useful.

[PeaceBlondie]

You can sometimes teach in some schools in Thailand without a high school diploma - but highly unlikely

In the US a diploma is the paper on which a certificate is printed - could be for a PhD, BA. AA, or woodworking course.

[Phatcharanan]

Off the original post a little but I don't understand why so many people are saying that Government schools are cutting back because of free education.

Education upto 18years old in Governments school has been free for along time.

The difference now is that books will be loaned and not sold and there is assistance with uniforms and pens,pencils etc.

Anyway. Hope you find this post useful.

The above is true. Thai constitution allows for 12 years of free education, 6 years Prathom and 6 at Mattayom. but that has never been applied universally. However, only 9 years of school attendance is mandatory. The cost of the books and other sundries becomes much more expensive for M4, 5 and 6 parents as the subject matters become more focused.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Phatcharanan

[teacup]

....

In the US a diploma is the paper on which a certificate is printed - could be for a PhD, BA. AA, or woodworking course.

funny....sometimes that is what it feels like............just "a piece of paper"....lol

[BOOKEMDANO]

I am a teacher with,shall we say, qualifications that don't quite make the grade. Having followed advice from the local Education office,who are happy to let me teach due to past experience, I went to the teachers council in Bangkok and asked for a "letter of exemption" from needing a teacher licence.

In order to get this letter I needed a letter from the director of my school explaining that(tongue in cheek) I was the best teacher ever, they love me to bits, I am happy to teach for less money so that they can afford me and basically that the world would stop turning if I left. I was granted this letter and now have new extention of stay and WP.

Not too sure about someone trying to get their first job.The powers that be seem to lean towards experience in the absence of good quals.

So in answer to the post I believe it is possible and legal to teach without a Bachelor Degree. As previously mentioned you have to be less picky about salary and location.

I am lucky that I teach in my wife's home town so can live on less money as I don't have large bills(no rent) to pay.

Off the original post a little but I don't understand why so many people are saying that Government schools are cutting back because of free education.

Education upto 18years old in Governments school has been free for along time.

The difference now is that books will be loaned and not sold and there is assistance with uniforms and pens,pencils etc.

My daughter recieved 360 baht for the uniforms and 185 for pens and stuff. I don't think this is really having an effect on the hiring of teachers as this money is coming from the Government and foreign teachers are paid from school coffers.

Anyway. Hope you find this post useful.

Very useful thank you

Any advice posters choose to contribute not only has an attachment to the Op, but will also serve to others who may have the same circumstances as myself. The community spirt that Thai Visa creates, and feedback we can all draw upon this site really is "second to none" So thank you once again for all your comments.

Your post is a great success story and i'm sure you do a fantastic job with your school, and the students benefit greatly from your teachings. Which really, when it comes down to it "is what it's all about" not a piece of paper that only states you are a university graduate, therefore your fit to teach. This is just a simple requirement. The fact of the matter is, it takes much more than that to be able to teach these kids. I have spoken to many Thai university graduates in English, only to get the reply back with a few incoherent words. A product of a Thai school that dictates the English language to these students for years, only for them to come out after 10+ years of English tuition and bearly able to string two sentences together "impressive methods that" or maybe given the chance somebody like yourself who cares enough to make a difference and wants to do the best he/she can.

I will continue with my education to a bachelor's degree level. Not only for the purpose of teaching here in Thailand but also for myself. I love this country and the people in it. But i feel that somewhere along the line the English tuition these students are receiving leaves alot to be desired.

I mean, i've been here 2 years and i can already state my name and where i come from in Thai...

[AjarnChan]

Hello to you all

A question for those teachers who have been working here "without a degree" in Thailand successfully, and managed to earn a fair wage for their efforts.

I checked "ajarn.com" for news, jobs and any useful information that may help me with this answer but i seem to draw a blank with regards to being able to teach here armed only with a diploma. What experiences have you guys or indeed girls had with this, and what "if any" options are avaliable to us ? Would this also have any bearing on monthly salaries too ?

So that you know where i stand academically, i completed my TEFL course about 4 years ago and my diploma is in English language.

Any input you give will be greatly appreciated

From personal experience it has been relatively easy to get work through one of the numerous Thai/Farang agencies. But only outside the major schools and prime locations; you would never get a job in a prestigious 'International School' [unless it was owned by a personal friend], however teaching in a Private school has never been a problem. Just be blunt and open, a Thai manager will get you a job if there is one, it is in their interests after all.

Also there are State schools outside 'in the sticks' which are allowed to hire anybody willing to live there. One example that springs to mind uses a German national to teach English; ie ~ 'You vill do your homeverk' ~ I kid you not . But he is a good all round Teacher, they need him, and it works out better than having nobody.

Of course in some cases your presence may be 'illegal', and you have to come to terms with the slim prospect of being 'thrown out'. Personally I make no false claims, present no 'Fake Degree', and refuse to sign anything. I get paid in cash every week, and the arrangement suits everybody concerned. BUT I now it can end abrubtly!

Good Luck

[Phatcharanan]

BUT I now it can end abrubtly!

Good Luck

Keep spelling like that and it will end more abruptly than you think.

(Just joshing with ya)

[AjarnChan]

BUT I now it can end abrubtly!

Good Luck

Keep spelling like that and it will end more abruptly than you think.

(Just joshing with ya)

Hi ~ I am English/British, and 'abrubtly' is how it was spelt when I grew up half a century ago. I actually looked it up on Google, and found most useage was 'abrubtly', with some instances of 'abruptly'. I guess it is either one of those cases where Brits and others 'agree to differ', or else a common 'mis-spelling' so widely used it has been 'accepted'.

Or did you mean my use of 'now' when I meant 'know' ~ MEA CULPA ~> Silly me, rushing as usual !

Thanks anyway

Edited April 24, 2009 by AjarnChan

[Loaded]

This has been a very pleasant and helpful thread.

I've recently spent a few evenings on ajarn and it's virtually impossible not to be attacked by one of the 'old hands' whatever you post. Of course, for me that means I respond in kind and the thread quickly becomes a lot of rubbish.

[markg]

This has been a very pleasant and helpful thread.

I've recently spent a few evenings on ajarn and it's virtually impossible not to be attacked by one of the 'old hands' whatever you post. Of course, for me that means I respond in kind and the thread quickly becomes a lot of rubbish.

Yeah know what you mean. I gave up on them a couple of years ago. I maybe pop my head in there once a year at the most. What ever you post just gets flamed.

It's really gone downhill.

Just to clarify - or even further muddy the waters.

The meaning of 'diploma' is different in from a British and American point of view.

In Britain, if you go to a college, it ISNT a university, and you would generally get some sort of 'diploma' from them.

For example, at AGE 16, i went to COLLEGE and graduated 2 years later with an OND (Ordinary National Diploma) in Engineering. I then went on to a university.

In Britain you usually go to UNIVERSITY at age 18 and graduate with a degree 3 years later.

An American will talk about going to college when really they mean going to university. Some of 'em even say they are 'going back to school' and again - they also mean university.

Whatever. Just to be clear, a Bachelors Degree says 'degree' on it. Not diploma.

A diploma is not as high as a degree.

As someone said on here, a diploma is sometimes used as a stepping stone before going to university.

Does that make it any clearer !

[Eastender]

And also to clarify, or muddy the waters further...

I an presently studying with the British 'Open University' (distance learning aimed at people who are working or supporting family).

Their definition of a Diploma is:

A diploma is a qualification in its own right or, again, it’s something that you might pick up as you progress further towards a degree. Usually 120 points’ worth of study, a diploma shows that you are capable of successful and sustained study at university level, and that could be valuable whether or not you intend to go on to further professional training or academic study.

And here's a link to their diploma courses: http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/search/show...lomasquals.shtm

Compare this with 300 / 360 points for a degree.

I am aiming to get a Diploma in English Language studies and then an 'Open Degree' (mixed subjects) with the O.U. for the sole purpose of teaching in Thailand. Not very useful for my Engineering job in the UK!

Cheers,

Robin.

[BOOKEMDANO]

I am aiming to get a Diploma in English Language studies and then an 'Open Degree' (mixed subjects) with the O.U. for the sole purpose of teaching in Thailand. Not very useful for my Engineering job in the UK!

Cheers,

Robin.

Hey Robin..

Best of luck with your OU course and i hope it goes well for you. Do you think that if somebody holds a Degree in English this would command a higher salary than that of somebody with a Degree in engineering ?

I understand that somebody who has an education degree such as "English" will be more sought after "for obvious reasons" But could that person command a greater salary than his colleague, or would they conveniantly overlook this as an advantage when assessing a wage ?

If for example if both these individuals worked for the same school, and all other factors were on an equal par with each other, such as experience, both native speakers, holders of TEFLS's etc ?

[Eastender]

Hi Bookemando,

I really don't know if an Eng Land degree would get a higher salary, but agree it must be easier to get a job with this.

I would much prefer to have the Eng Lang degree, but it will add another year or two to my study time (would need to take certain other modules). I've used credit from studying electronics at HNC level to substitue for the OU level 1 modules which saves at least a year, and if going for the Eng Lang degree I don't believe I could do this (though I need to double check). Hence I'll probably settle for the Diploma in Eng Lang + mixed subject degree.

Cheers,

Robin.

[eek]

In Britain, if you go to a college, it ISNT a university, and you would generally get some sort of 'diploma' from them.

Unless its an Art College, which is also for university degrees. No idea why they call it College though.

[Texpat]

In the US:

Primary education is elementary school (grades 1-5) followed by middle school (grades 6-8). Secondary or high school is grades 9-12. Post-secondary is anything beyond high school.

An associates degree is typically awarded two years of full-time study at a university or college. Many students follow traditional four-year course study and bypass this degree. (I believe this level is what some call a diploma)

A bachelor's degree (BA or BS) is two additional years, roughly.

A master's degree is two more years.

A doctorate is two or (often) more years.

They're all degrees. After all, a degree is the range of status levels conferred by institutions of higher education.

The diploma (in Greek folded paper) is merely the paper that the degree is printed on. Even kindergardens and high schools award them upon completion.

Colleges tend to be smaller than universities and usually do not offer advanced degrees (anything beyond bachelor). Universities emphasize research as well as teaching (traditionally a strength of colleges), and universities that offer doctoral programs are usually referred to as research universities. Sometimes the undergraduate part of a university (that which teaches 4-year bachelor-seeking students) is called a college.

Harvard College is one part of Harvard University.

Many universities are supported by individual U.S. states. (ie Michigan State). As I understand it, there are no federally run colleges or universities other than military academies.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Texpat

[Eastender]

In reply to your original question, I taught in Thailand for about 18 months without a degree, but with TEFL. Did this with a small private language school for part time students, and also for a larger chain. I aslo knew plenty of other people doing the same. Main drawback is though that I couldn't get the work permit - hence why I'm now studying for the degree so I can get the W.P. as well as choose better jobs.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to Texpat for long US explanation.

A bachelor's degree is not always required to get a work permit.

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks to everyone for their helpfulness, politeness, and restraint.

I have long thought that in Thailand teaching is a good case for 'from each according to his abilities,' and that there are certainly all levels of need in different schools here. Degrees are good benchmarks, though, and I don't blame schools for requiring them.

[aussiestyle1983]

In Australia, like someone else from the UK mentioned, a diploma is a stepping stone towards a degree. A diploma can count towards as much as 2/3 of a degree. There is one 3 year bachelors degree that takes 24 credit points, but you can do 16 credit points and graduate with a diploma if you don't need the degree. In Australia, here is a list, in order from lowest to highest, of most qualification available:

Secondary School:

School Certificate (year 10)

Higher School Certificate (year 12)

Vocational Education and Training:

Certificate I

Cert II

Cert III

Cert IV

Diploma

Advanced Diploma

Vocational Graduate Certificate

Vocational Graduate Diploma

Higher Education (university):

Diploma

Advanced Diploma

Associate Degree

Bachelor Degree

Grduate Certificate

Graduate Diploma

Masters Degree

Doctoral Degree

So, there are a few different types of diplomas around that can be obtained in different ways. Unless you have a Graduate Diploma, which is usually a 1 or 2 year post graduate course, a Diploma always is under a degree.

Edited May 7, 2009 by aussiestyle1983