Vfr Cooling No Good

[lennya12threh]

I bought a VFR400 NC30 and it is very nice.

My thai mechanic friend checked it over and drove it said the engine, breaks, suspension, etc, was all looking good.

He said I should tighten the chain, and thats about it except for the cooling system. LoL

He took it for a spin and overheated it in a couple minutes after getting it up to 160kms.

Now I do believe this is because the water ran out, because when I drove it home I stopped 3 times. Maybe 3 minutes intervals, because it would overheat instantly, even driving so softly because I was aware of it. Before when I test drove it, no problem. On the heat meter it stuck around 50%75%.

But the water tank is much too small, and the seller informed me of it, as well as it's minor leak, so he said he just filled it every 2 days. But also, he probably didn't drive nearly as much I will or I did today.

So I think tonight it was overheating because it ran out of water, but I can't see with my eyes, and it was too late to open the cap because the bike was steaming hot.

So basically 3 questions.

Was is a good or at least "doable" temperature to be driving at? Is 50%-75% on the "Cold to Hot meter" ok? What isn't?

Secondly, is it normal for an engine without a cooling system to overheat in 5 minutes?

Thirdly, I am going to get a bigger water tank, but are there other affordable options for adding gadgets to the bike to help cool the engine?

Thanks, Lenny

Edited April 26, 2009 by lennya12threh

[mbox]

I bought a VFR400 NC30 and it is very nice.

My thai mechanic friend checked it over and drove it said the engine, breaks, suspension, etc, was all looking good.

He said I should tighten the chain, and thats about it except for the cooling system. LoL

He took it for a spin and overheated it in a couple minutes after getting it up to 160kms.

Now I do believe this is because the water ran out, because when I drove it home I stopped 3 times. Maybe 3 minutes intervals, because it would overheat instantly, even driving so softly because I was aware of it. Before when I test drove it, no problem. On the heat meter it stuck around 50%75%.

But the water tank is much too small, and the seller informed me of it, as well as it's minor leak, so he said he just filled it every 2 days. But also, he probably didn't drive nearly as much I will or I did today.

So I think tonight it was overheating because it ran out of water, but I can't see with my eyes, and it was too late to open the cap because the bike was steaming hot.

So basically 3 questions.

Was is a good or at least "doable" temperature to be driving at? Is 50%-75% on the "Cold to Hot meter" ok? What isn't?

Secondly, is it normal for an engine without a cooling system to overheat in 5 minutes?

Thirdly, I am going to get a bigger water tank, but are there other affordable options for adding gadgets to the bike to help cool the engine?

Thanks, Lenny

i had 2x vfr 750 which had the heatproblem....one had a faulty thermostate that needed to exchanged the other one had the "waterways"blocked and simply needed to be cleaned through....both of the faults are cheap to solve and quite easy.The additional watertank won't help you, i guess,but hey,i am no mechanic

mbox

[lennya12threh]

Ok, good to know. I will look into it.

The new water tank is meant so that the water can last more than a couple days. The current one is leaking and maybe 250 ml. The ones on an NSR are 10x that.

[mbox]

Ok, good to know. I will look into it.

The new water tank is meant so that the water can last more than a couple days. The current one is leaking and maybe 250 ml. The ones on an NSR are 10x that.

if you need the leaking container changed,go to red baron bkk on the back of the showroom they have second hand spares there...find a tank for the vfr and exchange it...it is sufficient in size and if you have any other troubles try to resove them - ie need for thermostate get a new one or clean the waterways ...

the vfr is a great bike...you will enjoy it ...i know i did:-)

mbox

[gobs]

A bigger tank is useless... The only way is to fix the problem! Check thermostat, pump, gaskets, hoses and so on...

On an overheating you may break the engine, and then what about the cost?

No offence intended, Lenny, but NEVER, NEVER trust a seller: "minor leak so tank refilled every 2 days" meaning "my bike gets overheating problems but I never cared to fix it"...

As said before, fixing is not expensive: better to do it quickly!

Good luck,

Gobs

[thaicbr]

lennya. I had a Cbr250 which used to overheat. then following the advice on a cbr250 forum i did the following.

Also please note that it is a pressurised system so it should be leak free.

replaced the main hoses (one was bulging inside). took off the Radiator (water tank) and back flushed the engine, put rad cleaner through the rad etc, changed the rad filler cap to a 1.1 bar cap (it had a 0.9 bar on it causing it to blow water out the overflow) and then i used the Honda blue bottle premixed coolant available from most Honda shop's. unless the temperature was wayyyy high i had no problems (unless stuck in traffic) also i had a fan switch override so that i could turn the fan on if things got to hot. worked a treat. you can do this all yourself or entrust a Thai mechanic to do it (good luck )

i would be very worried now just in case you have blown a head gasket, check your oil and see if its a milky color or if there is excess moisture coming out your exhaust. if so then you will have to do a compression check.

lennya where are you in Bangkok. and who checked the bike out for you, did you take your friend with you. did you buy from a thai or foreigner. if Thai then my serious suggestion is to do a strip down of the tank and bodywork just to see what they have done to the bike ie electrics, fuel lines etc. what i have seen Thais put on bikes would make a grown man cry, i nearly did Allan

Edited April 26, 2009 by thaicbr

[lennya12threh]

Thanks guys.

But earlier today it seemed fine, as long as 50-75% on the "Cold to hot" meter is fine.

My only problem could be that the tank ran out of water, But I'm not sure yet, so I'm exploring options.

It was just hot so I couldn't take the water tank cap off to check.

It has been two hours now since I turned it off.

Think it's ok to take it off and refill it?

I'm going to head to the basement. Can't sleep.

[lennya12threh]

Then after I do that, I will explore some of these other seemingly complex repair/maintenance options that are complete foreign to my "mocycnoob" mind.

[basjke]

Maybe you can attach a 20 liter water tank to it so you only have to refill it once a month but that doesn't solve your problem.If it gets hot that means there is something faulty on the bike and every fault can be fixed.The bike wasn't designed to get too hot so every time it gets overheated,even how short period it might be,you do additional damage to the engine.Better take it to some experienced mechanic and I'm sure they can fix it in no time at a low cost.

[lennya12threh]

Maybe you can attach a 20 liter water tank to it so you only have to refill it once a month but that doesn't solve your problem.If it gets hot that means there is something faulty on the bike and every fault can be fixed.The bike wasn't designed to get too hot so every time it gets overheated,even how short period it might be,you do additional damage to the engine.Better take it to some experienced mechanic and I'm sure they can fix it in no time at a low cost.

Yes, but I still think it is probably just because the water tank was run dry.

Tonight all of the sudden it was running hot, with the dial to the max of the heat meter.

But, before that there didn't seem to be a problem, as long as this reading is ok on the heat meter.

Cold [_______^___] Hot

---------------------|

---------------about here

This, I'm still not clear on. I understand that if it is getting over 230 degrees, then it is hot.

But the meter doesn't show a temp just moves around on a scale of whatever it is programed at.

For all I know 1/2 to 3/4 of the way to the hot side could be ok.

I'm about to go check if the water is run dry.

Edited April 26, 2009 by lennya12threh

[basjke]

Maybe you can attach a 20 liter water tank to it so you only have to refill it once a month but that doesn't solve your problem.If it gets hot that means there is something faulty on the bike and every fault can be fixed.The bike wasn't designed to get too hot so every time it gets overheated,even how short period it might be,you do additional damage to the engine.Better take it to some experienced mechanic and I'm sure they can fix it in no time at a low cost.

Yes, but I still think it is probably just because the water tank was run dry.

Tonight all of the sudden it was running hot, with the dial to the max of the heat meter.

But, before that there didn't seem to be a problem, as long as this reading is ok on the heat meter.

Cold [ ^ ] Hot

|

about here

This, I'm still not clear on. I understand that if it is getting over 230 degrees, then it is hot.

But the meter doesn't show a temp just moves around on a scale of whatever it is programed at.

For all I know 1/2 to 3/4 of the way to the hot side could be ok.

I'm about to go check if the water is run dry.

Well Lennya,if the water tank runs dry then there is a reason for it.Motorbikes don't drink water.Either the head gasket has a leak and the water goes into the oil channel or the intake or exhaust channel or there is a problem with the cooling system.The earlier you take it to a mechanic to have it checked out the less the repair costs will be.Don't wait untill for example your cylinder head has been damaged from the heat.

Edited April 26, 2009 by basjke

[lennya12threh]

Well it does drip off the bottom of the motorcycle very slowly. From where, I will have to check tomorrow.

Yea, I know a place to take it.

Anyone have any other reccomendations?

[basjke]

Well it does drip off the bottom of the motorcycle very slowly. From where, I will have to check tomorrow.

Yea, I know a place to take it.

Anyone have any other reccomendations?

I guess you are lucky in this case that it will be only a leaking tube.Take off the fairing and put pressure on the water reservoir or start up the bike and let it run warm and you probably can locate the leak.

[lennya12threh]

Well it does drip off the bottom of the motorcycle very slowly. From where, I will have to check tomorrow.

Yea, I know a place to take it.

Anyone have any other reccomendations?

I guess you are lucky in this case that it will be only a leaking tube.Take off the fairing and put pressure on the water reservoir or start up the bike and let it run warm and you probably can locate the leak.

Phew!

But hey guys, I'm still not clear on what is a "normal" or "drivable" reading on the temp gauge.

It doesn't display the temperature in exact values.

Edited April 27, 2009 by lennya12threh

[Dave the Dude]

I bought a VFR400 NC30 and it is very nice.

My thai mechanic friend checked it over and drove it said the engine, breaks, suspension, etc, was all looking good.

He said I should tighten the chain, and thats about it except for the cooling system. LoL

Thanks, Lenny

Hi Lenny

Sorry about your disapointing start with the bike.

All good advice from basjke and the others but I wonder if your Thai mate is a mechanic??

Please heed the suggestions to get this checked as soon as possible as it could seriously damage the engine (& your wallet)

Dave

[BigBikeBKK]

Well it does drip off the bottom of the motorcycle very slowly. From where, I will have to check tomorrow.

Yea, I know a place to take it.

Anyone have any other reccomendations?

I guess you are lucky in this case that it will be only a leaking tube.Take off the fairing and put pressure on the water reservoir or start up the bike and let it run warm and you probably can locate the leak.

Phew!

Why "Phew"?

You still have no idea what's wrong with your cooling system. A bunch of guys have given you good solid advice in this thread but it seem you're ignoring the advice and are more interested in treating the symptoms than finding out and fixing the cause of the problem. NC30's are awesome machines- shame to blow one up because you're too lazy or ignorant to get the problem diagnosed and fixed... Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm amazed you continue to ride the bike knowing it has a cooling problem- that is asking for trouble...

Good luck!

[mbox]

Maybe you can attach a 20 liter water tank to it so you only have to refill it once a month but that doesn't solve your problem.If it gets hot that means there is something faulty on the bike and every fault can be fixed.The bike wasn't designed to get too hot so every time it gets overheated,even how short period it might be,you do additional damage to the engine.Better take it to some experienced mechanic and I'm sure they can fix it in no time at a low cost.

Yes, but I still think it is probably just because the water tank was run dry.

Tonight all of the sudden it was running hot, with the dial to the max of the heat meter.

But, before that there didn't seem to be a problem, as long as this reading is ok on the heat meter.

Cold [ ^ ] Hot

|

about here

This, I'm still not clear on. I understand that if it is getting over 230 degrees, then it is hot.

But the meter doesn't show a temp just moves around on a scale of whatever it is programed at.

For all I know 1/2 to 3/4 of the way to the hot side could be ok.

I'm about to go check if the water is run dry.

Well Lennya,if the water tank runs dry then there is a reason for it.Motorbikes don't drink water.Either the head gasket has a leak and the water goes into the oil channel or the intake or exhaust channel or there is a problem with the cooling system.The earlier you take it to a mechanic to have it checked out the less the repair costs will be.Don't wait untill for example your cylinder head has been damaged from the heat.

The above is the best advice....it may be cheap to fix it now...if the head has been damaged you looking at much higher costs . Unless you have driven over some period with "overheating" you have a good chance that the heads are just fine and the VFR's are quite "forgiving" about this ...but you got to fix that first before doing anymore trips...the only & next trip should be to the mechanic...mbox

Edited April 27, 2009 by mbox

[LivinLOS]

If you keep over heating it, you will age and damage what is already an older engine.. Coolant is a problem that needs addressing, and really the same goes with many issues with older bikes, you need to be on top of issues if you dont want to get a much larger bill.

1) seal the system up.

2) have it stripped, any damaged / pinched / kinked hoses changed (didnt bike arts put on color coded red hoses ?? were they the right sizes ?? Did they have to kink them to bend in place ??)

3) backflush the rad, put rad cleaner through it. Examine for fin damage and flow.

4) check (replace) the thermostat and check fan temp sensors operate reliably and early in the temp cycle.

5) consider a manual fan over ride

6) use high quality coolant, the temps here dont reward water use as well.

If you still having temp problems after that then it is more serious.. possibly indicating a few different most of them nasty issues and it might be smarter to sell it looking pretty.

[LivinLOS]

Forgot to say.. Forget a 'larger' tank.. Thats just storage of water not flow or cooling of same.. Standard spec will be fine.

[lennya12threh]

Yes, I agree it is a very nice bike and needs care not ignorance.

I do care about the bike. This is why i stopped 3 times on the way home from Bang Na to Phra Kanong while the problem occurred.

Didn't want to drive it while over heat.

This is also why I'm so persistently asking the question about a normal or drivable reading on the temp gauge. All I can find is temperature values, but the gauge has none.

I believe the water slowly drips out the bike, and cannot check it here as I don't have the tools. Maybe I should get a mechanic delivered or buy some tools, but I was thinking it would be ok to drive the bike to a mechanic shop if the temp reading is ok, as it seems to be when the water i'snt run dry. Just this morning I dumped almost a litre of water into it.

But I still don't know if it is ok to drive with an indicated 50-75% on the heat meter. If it is I will carry a bottle of water on me on the way there and if the heat sky rockets, add more water.

This is the first night, and I haven't driven it carelessly, and I haven't just ignored the information given to me. I need to check the leak first and test it, or I'd like to at least before I tear apart the whole bike.

"Phew" because what he said sounded promising and a minor problem. He even said "lucky." I didn't mean I'm taking her to the streets to burn some rubber and blow the engine.

Thanks for the info guys. I am listening.

It's alot of information to take in in what has been now 2 hours before I went to sleep and 10 minutes this morning...

Edited April 27, 2009 by lennya12threh

[Gary A]

You should be aware that if the water boils out, the temperature gage will no longer work. It needs water around it to work. If there is water in the system, 75 percent would still be OK.

[LivinLOS]

I just realised this isnt the same VFR I was thinking (wraithsomething) who had his pimped up at bike arts, who also has a cooling issue but with heating carbs.. So some of what I posted above wont make sense to the OP.. Sorry.

The next thing is finding a competent mechanic.. On the whole I have had terrible experiences with Thai mechanics.. One of which basically wrecked an engine of mine the half put it back together and walked away on the job.. Finding one who uses gaskets, who works to a level I find is acceptable is not easy here.. That may be different (in fact I do believe it is) in bangkok and even CM where theres a much bigger sportbike scene.

[wrathfultalon]

I had the same issue several months back verbatim. in the end i needed to replace a radiator and have my thermostat changed. State side you can have the radiators cleaned and tested but i dont know if that is an option here. so in the end here is my recomendation.

1. Have radiators pulled and cleaned my specialists. this involves them dipping them in cleaning solutions so no scooter shop can do it.

2. Change thermostat, cheap insurance.

3. Replace your radiator cap.

[Zzinged]

Lenny, this site might help you: http://www.v4power.co.uk/html/home.html

It has a wealth of useful information.

As for the temp gauge, mine would normally sit around 75% and up in the city. If I'm totally stuck in traffic it would be much much closer to the red zone, but would drop rapidly after moving again for a few mins. You might also wanna check if it's 'water' or 'coolant'. Coolant from a bottle usually is a mixture of water, antifreeze and rust inhibitor. One purpose of the antifreeze is to help raise the boiling point of the water. Also check that the radiator is clean and the fins are unbent. Check as well that your fan works. The point the fan kicks in is between the M and the P on the dial.

I'd suggest you take it to a shop to get it fixed asap, since the VFR 400's V4 engine is well known for it's heat generation. Glad to hear you found a bike you like, and hope you enjoy it.

[lennya12threh]

I had the same issue several months back verbatim. in the end i needed to replace a radiator and have my thermostat changed. State side you can have the radiators cleaned and tested but i dont know if that is an option here. so in the end here is my recomendation.

1. Have radiators pulled and cleaned my specialists. this involves them dipping them in cleaning solutions so no scooter shop can do it.

2. Change thermostat, cheap insurance.

3. Replace your radiator cap.

That sounds like a good idea even if it just a hose leak. Can't hurt.

[lennya12threh]

Lenny, this site might help you: http://www.v4power.co.uk/html/home.html

It has a wealth of useful information.

As for the temp gauge, mine would normally sit around 75% and up in the city. If I'm totally stuck in traffic it would be much much closer to the red zone, but would drop rapidly after moving again for a few mins. You might also wanna check if it's 'water' or 'coolant'. Coolant from a bottle usually is a mixture of water, antifreeze and rust inhibitor. One purpose of the antifreeze is to help raise the boiling point of the water. Also check that the radiator is clean and the fins are unbent. Check as well that your fan works. The point the fan kicks in is between the M and the P on the dial.

I'd suggest you take it to a shop to get it fixed asap, since the VFR 400's V4 engine is well known for it's heat generation. Glad to hear you found a bike you like, and hope you enjoy it.

Ok, so the engine has been ok the entire time, only being because I stopped 3 times the night it ran dry.

Now I just need to get this inspected fast, so I don't have this leaking hassle, and a sitting problem waiting to get worse.

I suppose you friend behind Seacon would be capable of doing a good job?

I'd like to take a day time off and just watch and learn a bit as well.

[Zzinged]

Yea, he's quite well versed in those 400s... the bikes I see him (and his guys) working on the most often are CBR 400s and VFR 400s.

[thaicbr]

Also lennya. Thann on this site is a motorcycle mechanic from Germany (speaks English). He loves 2 strokes but don't hold that against him. He might be able to help.

Allan

[lennya12threh]

Thanks guys. I also heard about Red Barron. That they stock a ton of parts on sight and have good mechanics. But also that they are pricey.

[Zzinged]

Thanks guys. I also heard about Red Barron. That they stock a ton of parts on sight and have good mechanics. But also that they are pricey.

Regarding using Red Baron: if you buy something from them they'll put it on for you. If you just want them to repair something, you have to pay them a 10,000 baht fee to be able to access their mechanics. The warehouse in the back and the shop itself are regarded as separate entities, so if you buy something from the parts warehouse they won't put it on for you. This is based on what they told me around of December 08. Not sure if they still do it this way or not.