Chamlong Claims Abhisit Govt Not In Actual Control

[Koo82]

It doesn't matter. Democrat will never go wrong. Either "not enough evidence" or the case is kept in file until expires.

[ThNiner]

the Democrat Party many years ago obtained a donation of Bt258 million from Prachai Leophairatana, then the top executive of TPI Polene, a public company listed on the stock exchange.At that time,Pradit was Democrat secretary-general and Banyat Bantadtan was party leader.

Chalerm said his point was that the donation came from someone who did not really own the money.

"When the money doesn't belong to the person who gives it, you can't call that a donation. The money is not a personal asset

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...halerm+can+nail

Another sad lie. TPI gave Bt258 million to a PR company to do PR in the South to promote their cement there. All the printing and PR work have been presented in the parliament to prove that there was actually PR work...no siphoning of the money. This lie was based on the little fact that the PR company was owned by daughter of a democrat MP. (She's now a Dem MP herself.) It was a pathetic attempt. And how pathetic to see it presented as a truth here by Koo82.

[Journalist]

Now is a good time to steal and plunder - no one is watching the shop, Abhisit is too busy reasoning with monkeys, as if they'd ever listen. Even if he gets a reprieve and turns to his real job - the urgency of economic crisis means less transparency and more leakage for the sake of speed, anti-corruption drive will have to wait.

Abhisit should spend his time on macro economic management. Sure he should !

So why is he lobbying foreign governments about Thaksin's passport. Its not his job to be a cop, yet he seems to have been given the job of managing extradition-related PR. (oh, and the ultra-frequent trips to Europe to be the polished frontman at international conferences!)

I don't agree that there aren't enough police resources to tackle corruption. Nobody is expecting traffic police to convert to fraud jobs, but there is no reason to suspend fraud investigations at police level or anti-corruption drives simply because of the implication of the unfolding sub prime crisis. Its not a very good excuse to put that on hold, nor is it utopianism to expect a reformist, modernist government to devote budget to it.

[Koo82]

the Democrat Party many years ago obtained a donation of Bt258 million from Prachai Leophairatana, then the top executive of TPI Polene, a public company listed on the stock exchange.At that time,Pradit was Democrat secretary-general and Banyat Bantadtan was party leader.

Chalerm said his point was that the donation came from someone who did not really own the money.

"When the money doesn't belong to the person who gives it, you can't call that a donation. The money is not a personal asset

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...halerm+can+nail

Another sad lie. TPI gave Bt258 million to a PR company to do PR in the South to promote their cement there. All the printing and PR work have been presented in the parliament to prove that there was actually PR work...no siphoning of the money. This lie was based on the little fact that the PR company was owned by daughter of a democrat MP. (She's now a Dem MP herself.) It was a pathetic attempt. And how pathetic to see it presented as a truth here by Koo82.

Do you know that PR company? Chalerm said this company had 1 million Baht fund and did not have its own printing company, was located in a small quiet area and company looked like a private house. Do you know if the company is still running or has gone bankruptcy? Because of what? No money to pay tax? 258 million Baht for a 1 million Baht company to do the PR works. Chalerm said there were no contracts of PM works with this company, no purchase of banners or related material, and there were no record of this 258 M Baht in Democrat Party's account.

This PR company transferred many times of the amount 1.8 million and 1.9 million Baht to people having close relation with Democrat Party. Because money from 2 million Baht up must go through corruption inspection. One of the transfer slips was faxed to Democrat Party's fax number in Bangkok.

And party fund 29 million Baht from Election Commission was misused.

I heard these from the censure debate. During Khun Chalerm's talk, Abhisit was almost fainted .

Like I said, Democrat will never go wrong. Good luck and be happy!

[Sao Jiang Mai]

"Chalerm said" - anyone actually believes anything Chalerm says?

[webfact]

"Chalerm said" - anyone actually believes anything Chalerm says?

his kids....

[ThNiner]

Do you know that PR company? Chalerm said this company had 1 million Baht fund and did not have its own printing company, was located in a small quiet area and company looked like a private house. Do you know if the company is still running or has gone bankruptcy? Because of what? No money to pay tax? 258 million Baht for a 1 million Baht company to do the PR works. Chalerm said there were no contracts of PM works with this company, no purchase of banners or related material, and there were no record of this 258 M Baht in Democrat Party's account.

This PR company transferred many times of the amount 1.8 million and 1.9 million Baht to people having close relation with Democrat Party. Because money from 2 million Baht up must go through corruption inspection. One of the transfer slips was faxed to Democrat Party's fax number in Bangkok.

And party fund 29 million Baht from Election Commission was misused.

I heard these from the censure debate. During Khun Chalerm's talk, Abhisit was almost fainted .

Like I said, Democrat will never go wrong. Good luck and be happy!

I can't be bothered to go into every single detail of this case. The case was argued at lenght in the last censure debate in the parliament and it has laready been forwarded to the gov't agency to be investigated. I just hope that when the outcome of the investigation comes out, you won't be whining that it's an unfair ruling again.

I also noticed that for some reason you have never mentioned the fact that TPI has filed a defamation suit against Chalerm involving this story.

As for Chalerm's credibility, I'm just gonna say that he's the same guy who said "Ai Pued" killed the policeman in that nightclub on that night...not his son, despite the contrary accounts of witnesses and evidence. I think that perticular son of his is no longer in Thailand. He fled a long time ago. And to these days, no one knows how "Ai Pued" is...except mister honorable Chalerm I guess. So yeah, Chalerm's words do carry a lot of weight.

[hammered]

Now is a good time to steal and plunder - no one is watching the shop, Abhisit is too busy reasoning with monkeys, as if they'd ever listen. Even if he gets a reprieve and turns to his real job - the urgency of economic crisis means less transparency and more leakage for the sake of speed, anti-corruption drive will have to wait.

Abhisit should spend his time on macro economic management. Sure he should !

So why is he lobbying foreign governments about Thaksin's passport. Its not his job to be a cop, yet he seems to have been given the job of managing extradition-related PR. (oh, and the ultra-frequent trips to Europe to be the polished frontman at international conferences!)

I don't agree that there aren't enough police resources to tackle corruption. Nobody is expecting traffic police to convert to fraud jobs, but there is no reason to suspend fraud investigations at police level or anti-corruption drives simply because of the implication of the unfolding sub prime crisis. Its not a very good excuse to put that on hold, nor is it utopianism to expect a reformist, modernist government to devote budget to it.

Imho To understand exactly what is happening here I think it needs splitting into different aspects. There is a vicious power struggle based at an important historical moment and there is a debate and desire for improved democracy. The debate on democracy which exisits at reasonable levels in both manipulated colour movements (balance of elected government versus check and balance) has become completely intemingled with the power struggle which is a lot more urgent. Considering what the winners of the power struggle get to control they will be able to control the political, economic and business dimensions of the country for decades whether democracy develops further or not although when one sid efinally wins it makes sense to develop democracy anyway as they will have the means to influence it totally but shall we say in a way democracy is influenced more in a western way.

It is interesting that the reasonable demands of some reds and yellows (respect elections and no more coups and respect laws and have checks and balances) are not mutually exclusive and that those who argue for these are more natural allies and than enemies when all the manipulation and created personality cult is removed.

[ThNiner]

"Chalerm said" - anyone actually believes anything Chalerm says?

Touche. And straight to the point.

And given the history of lies and bogus claims, one after another, by the red shirt people, do they still really have any creidibility left?

[ajarnmark]

Koo you are wasting your time among self-righteous, all-knowing persons. Everyone here who hates Thaksin is right and anyone who says even a single word for him is evil (remember WMD in Iraq?)

Abhisit government is a puppet which is controlled by PAD. You may not believe it so, but after few months/years when you will see that PAD will try to control Thailand and ruin it more then you will understand.

Thaksin maybe corrupt but he was lesser of an evil than any other political parties in Thailand.

If you dont agree with me, remember 1997 crises and recall who was in power and who destroyed Thai economy (democrats, just in case if someone cant recall).

Go ahead and call me names, but thats what my views are.

[Journalist]

"Chalerm said" - anyone actually believes anything Chalerm says?

Touche. And straight to the point.

And given the history of lies and bogus claims, one after another, by the red shirt people, do they still really have any creidibility left?

That being the case, should the underclass meekly return to their humble estate - be good and obedient - like Tong Daeng?

The point is that there are many (especially rural) Thais who feel abandoned by the system. They don't want to revolutionise it, but they just want to do better out of it.

They may have been a means to an end for Thaksin, but at least they got something out of it - for the previous century they got nil.

Who cares about them now? .....Prem? I'll believe Thailand is a modern nation who cares for its most vulnerable when Patpong closes (now I am being utopian!)

[Plus]

If you dont agree with me, remember 1997 crises and recall who was in power and who destroyed Thai economy (democrats, just in case if someone cant recall).

Such a bold display of ignorance!

And from a poster who calls himself "ajarn".

Or was it coming from Calvin in his avatar?

[hammered]

Koo you are wasting your time among self-righteous, all-knowing persons. Everyone here who hates Thaksin is right and anyone who says even a single word for him is evil (remember WMD in Iraq?)

Abhisit government is a puppet which is controlled by PAD. You may not believe it so, but after few months/years when you will see that PAD will try to control Thailand and ruin it more then you will understand.

Thaksin maybe corrupt but he was lesser of an evil than any other political parties in Thailand.

If you dont agree with me, remember 1997 crises and recall who was in power and who destroyed Thai economy (democrats, just in case if someone cant recall).

Go ahead and call me names, but thats what my views are.

You wanna check your facts there. Gen Chavlits NAP led government were in power at the important time in 1997. The Dems came to power after his mishandling of the situation forced a resignation.

On a less fatcual front I think you'll find that the PAD actually have little control of the government or of the powerful and influential forces in Thailand. Sondhi has been quite critical of government, military coupists and bureacracy. The yellows like many of the reds have been to some extent used by others in their power games imho. To date though only the yellows have worked this out and as such remain an interesting wild cardin developments. imho

[Samuian]

......................................edited....

By all means go after TS, but go after all the others under suspicion too. Eg: Juthamas of the TAT.

And amnesties shouldn't exonerate all those others in order to re-graft all over again, while being manipulated to exclude him. (I happen to think nobody should be amnestied)

Agreed!

As an Amnesty would make a fool out of the judges, the courts, the law,

the constitution and make the wrongdoers, national heroes who been "mistreated"!

Following this there would be a flood of liable suits...

A very bad move indeed!

Start with a REVIEW of the Charter if alll areas fo political misconduct are proper

recognized and dealt with by means of law!

[Plus]

They don't want to revolutionise it, but they just want to do better out of it.

No they don't.

Show me a single point on their agenda that would lead to betterment of the system as opposed to making life easier for politicians.

They've just been elinsted in someone else's war and told to repeat someone else's arguments.

I'm actually waiting for them to start making sense. That day hasn't come yet, though it has been promised ages ago by red promoters on this forum.

[hammered]

Well almost unseen the mid-year military reshuffle has been endorsed. Some analysis of this will no doubt be forthcoming in the next few days.

[Koo82]

Am I correct if I say Prem, Army and some top police have the real control of Thailand?

[BigSnake]

Here we go again, yet another PM wanna be, setting up another Party, Oh Well TIT!!

[Plus]

Am I correct if I say Prem, Army and some top police have the real control of Thailand?

No, you'd be incorrect.

Prem wasn't in full control even when he was the PM.

Now he is too old to control anything. Many powerful people respect him but he doesn't control them.

The army and the police are far from being unified. Chamlong feared a Songkran coup AGAINST Prem, for example.

So much for control.

[animatic]

the Democrat Party many years ago obtained a donation of Bt258 million from Prachai Leophairatana, then the top executive of TPI Polene, a public company listed on the stock exchange.At that time,Pradit was Democrat secretary-general and Banyat Bantadtan was party leader.

Chalerm said his point was that the donation came from someone who did not really own the money.

"When the money doesn't belong to the person who gives it, you can't call that a donation. The money is not a personal asset

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...halerm+can+nail

Another sad lie. TPI gave Bt258 million to a PR company to do PR in the South to promote their cement there. All the printing and PR work have been presented in the parliament to prove that there was actually PR work...no siphoning of the money. This lie was based on the little fact that the PR company was owned by daughter of a democrat MP. (She's now a Dem MP herself.) It was a pathetic attempt. And how pathetic to see it presented as a truth here by Koo82.

Do you know that PR company? Chalerm said this company had 1 million Baht fund and did not have its own printing company, was located in a small quiet area and company looked like a private house. Do you know if the company is still running or has gone bankruptcy? Because of what? No money to pay tax? 258 million Baht for a 1 million Baht company to do the PR works. Chalerm said there were no contracts of PM works with this company, no purchase of banners or related material, and there were no record of this 258 M Baht in Democrat Party's account.

This PR company transferred many times of the amount 1.8 million and 1.9 million Baht to people having close relation with Democrat Party. Because money from 2 million Baht up must go through corruption inspection. One of the transfer slips was faxed to Democrat Party's fax number in Bangkok.

And party fund 29 million Baht from Election Commission was misused.

I heard these from the censure debate. During Khun Chalerm's talk, Abhisit was almost fainted .

Like I said, Democrat will never go wrong. Good luck and be happy!

Public Relkations PR companies can be run from a good laptop and WIFI

anywhere on earth IF the priciple has the right connections and numbers to call

to get things done to sway public opinion in the way the client wants it swayed.

It can be on one room letter drop in NYC ands still have revenues of millions of $

yet not own it's own presses or recording / video studioes etc.

I have subcrontracted for PR comanies over decades.

They sell ideas and plans, not hardware systems to work on.

Koo all this crap brought up in the censure motions is irrelevant

it didn't turn into anything substantial on examination.

It didn't harm the government one bit.

It means SQUAT,

so why bother to throw it around like it's facts?

[animatic]

Koo you are wasting your time among self-righteous, all-knowing persons. Everyone here who hates Thaksin is right and anyone who says even a single word for him is evil (remember WMD in Iraq?)

Abhisit government is a puppet which is controlled by PAD. You may not believe it so, but after few months/years when you will see that PAD will try to control Thailand and ruin it more then you will understand.

Thaksin maybe corrupt but he was lesser of an evil than any other political parties in Thailand.

If you dont agree with me, remember 1997 crises and recall who was in power and who destroyed Thai economy (democrats, just in case if someone cant recall).

Go ahead and call me names, but thats what my views are.

No, quite wrong the Democrats inherited that '97 mess and fixed it,

and took the heat for the necessary measures to fix it.

They were NOT in power during the time that it all went very bad.

[samgrowth]

The Democrate never involved in corruption.

Just look at Chuan & Mark. White as snow.

[Koo82]

Am I correct if I say Prem, Army and some top police have the real control of Thailand?

No, you'd be incorrect.

Prem wasn't in full control even when he was the PM.

Now he is too old to control anything. Many powerful people respect him but he doesn't control them.

The army and the police are far from being unified. Chamlong feared a Songkran coup AGAINST Prem, for example.

So much for control.

So who controls Thailand?

Must be Prem. Many top ranking army and police meet him. The reds said who wants to move governors or key army, police have to ask Prem.

[LawnGnome]

Am I correct if I say Prem, Army and some top police have the real control of Thailand?

No, you'd be incorrect.

Prem wasn't in full control even when he was the PM.

Now he is too old to control anything. Many powerful people respect him but he doesn't control them.

The army and the police are far from being unified. Chamlong feared a Songkran coup AGAINST Prem, for example.

So much for control.

So who controls Thailand?

Must be Prem. Many top ranking army and police meet him. The reds said who wants to move governors or key army, police have to ask Prem.

Better Prem than Thaksin or Charlerm....at least we know where his loyalties are.

[Koo82]

Public Relkations PR companies can be run from a good laptop and WIFI

anywhere on earth IF the priciple has the right connections and numbers to call

to get things done to sway public opinion in the way the client wants it swayed.

It can be on one room letter drop in NYC ands still have revenues of millions of $

yet not own it's own presses or recording / video studioes etc.

I have subcrontracted for PR comanies over decades.

They sell ideas and plans, not hardware systems to work on.

Koo all this crap brought up in the censure motions is irrelevant

it didn't turn into anything substantial on examination.

It didn't harm the government one bit.

It means SQUAT,

so why bother to throw it around like it's facts?

Why crap and squat here? If I were your side, would that be rice and western style?

It's not my main point whether company is big or small. Khun Chalerm said there was no contract of hiring this company to do the PR job for 258 million Baht and no record of this fund in Democrat Party's account. He said the 29 million Baht fund was not listed clearly how it was spent.

Of course Democrat said their family members are adults and have their own business, so money transferred to these people's account is normal.

Of course when Democrat had enough people voted for Abhisit to be in power, they voted for him to survive the censure debate. A child also understands this.

[LawnGnome]

If PTP had anything on the Democrats, they would have presented it to the Constitution Court. They have nothing, so they used the censure debate to try to score political points, and they failed.

PTP is done.

[Journalist]

They don't want to revolutionise it, but they just want to do better out of it.

No they don't.

Show me a single point on their agenda that would lead to betterment of the system as opposed to making life easier for politicians.

They've just been elinsted in someone else's war and told to repeat someone else's arguments.

I'm actually waiting for them to start making sense. That day hasn't come yet, though it has been promised ages ago by red promoters on this forum.

By 'they', I was referring to the bog-standard peasant (not a red militant). The average Joe in the fields does not want a revolution. He just wants to do a bit better in life - preferably this one, not the next one.

Usually he's offered no improvements by any political party, (So THB 500 is the next best thing). I don't blame these people for feeling cynical about the townies, and then selling out their vote.

ps I agree about Prem, I don't think he is calling the shots because no person in their mid eighties is in a fit state to do so. Eg, Deng Xiao Ping, Castro, Chairman Mao. They were all worn out by that time in life.

[LawnGnome]

They don't want to revolutionise it, but they just want to do better out of it.

No they don't.

Show me a single point on their agenda that would lead to betterment of the system as opposed to making life easier for politicians.

They've just been elinsted in someone else's war and told to repeat someone else's arguments.

I'm actually waiting for them to start making sense. That day hasn't come yet, though it has been promised ages ago by red promoters on this forum.

By 'they', I was referring to the bog-standard peasant (not a red militant). The average Joe in the fields does not want a revolution. He just wants to do a bit better in life - preferably this one, not the next one.

Usually he's offered no improvements by any political party, (So THB 500 is the next best thing). I don't blame these people for feeling cynical about the townies, and then selling out their vote.

ps I agree about Prem, I don't think he is calling the shots because no person in their mid eighties is in a fit state to do so. Eg, Deng Xiao Ping, Castro, Chairman Mao. They were all worn out by that time in life.

I can understand the frustration of those rural folks who feel their voices aren't heard. I can also feel the frustration of the Bangkokians, who make up about about 20% of the population of the country, and pay about 80% of the taxes that run the country.

[brahmburgers]

Thaksin was corrupt. If you can not acknowledge that then you really need to go back and read old newspaper clippings Koo. And just because others are also corrupt does not mean that his corruption should be excused.

I read them, but I still cannot know how he can be accused of corruption. I only see that he is very rich and powerful. After all those years, people still cannot prove if Khun Thaksin is corrupt or not. Only that land case is known with 5/4 result.

T is nothing if not crafty. So was Al Capone (notorious Chicago mob boss in the mid-20th century). The US Feds knew to try and bust Capone on a more serious charge would be difficult due to reams of hard-to-get and hidden evidence. So the FBI busted him on tax evasion, which was comparatively smaller charge - but it was at least enough to get a fair trial and put the mobster behind bars.

Simlarly with T. The list of his illegal activities is long, but to legally bust him in the courts, would entail a whole heck of a lot of hidden documents and reluctant (and soon to be snuffed out) witnesses. That's why the Thai gov't wisely chose the easier smaller cases first, such as his ex-wife's shady land deal. Perhaps later, the gov't will have the power, evidence and witnesses to bust Thaksin on the more serious charges: MEGA TAX EVASION, LYING ON ASSETS DECLARATIONS, BEING DIRECTLY IN CHARGE WHEN NEARLY A HUNDRED MUSLIM YOUNG MEN WERE KILLED AT TAK BAI, BEING IN CHARGE DURING THE EXTRA-JUDICIAL WAR ON DRUGS WHEREIN HUNDREDS OF INNOCENT THAIS DIED, TREASON, .....and so on.

[Journalist]

Koo you are wasting your time among self-righteous, all-knowing persons. Everyone here who hates Thaksin is right and anyone who says even a single word for him is evil (remember WMD in Iraq?)

Abhisit government is a puppet which is controlled by PAD. You may not believe it so, but after few months/years when you will see that PAD will try to control Thailand and ruin it more then you will understand.

Thaksin maybe corrupt but he was lesser of an evil than any other political parties in Thailand.

If you dont agree with me, remember 1997 crises and recall who was in power and who destroyed Thai economy (democrats, just in case if someone cant recall).

Go ahead and call me names, but thats what my views are.

No, quite wrong the Democrats inherited that '97 mess and fixed it,

and took the heat for the necessary measures to fix it.

They were NOT in power during the time that it all went very bad.

1997 was the culmination of a multi year process of reckless credit expansion and currency overvaluation.

Chavalit of the NAP was at the helm when things went tits up on 2nd July 1997. The momentum leading to that outcome was built up over the previous ten years of irrational exuberance in economic management and borrowing.

So, its not possible to point to one person or one government as scapegoat.