News on visa detentions

[JT65]

Currently nationalities I know of that have been arrested (personally) include Israeli, Irish & British. Dont know whether they are targeting certain nationalities. I would imagine that there would naturally be less US citizens arrested as there is a much smaller number of them in Thailand than any other nationalities, and most dont stay on long stays here.

Information on going to immigration. If you loose your passport and go to immigration with your new passport, immigration look in their computer for your last known good stamp. No fake stamps will be listed. Therefore you will be required to pay the overstay since your last known good stamps. I know many people who have done this and who had dodgy stamps. Their overstay varied from 1-3 months depending when their last illegally acquired stamp was registered in the immigration system.

Thankyou Scooter and Thankyou again

This is the type of info that people should be posting as it actually helps others understand what they might do. From your post I gather that losing the passport is not a bad option based on the fact that they  pull up your LAST stamp. I would assume this may be helped if you photocopy your last stamp with TM card prior to losing it. So if your worried about stamps from a year or so ago and the recent ones or at least the last one is okay then losing your passport could be the best option. There are many people concerned about stamps from a year ago or more when they used an agent. They obviously changed their ways since that time and recent stamps have been obtained by themselves, but they are worried about been caught on the old stamps. For these people a new passport may be the answer

[ovenman]

r.e. Lonely Planet. I am quite sure LP has some disclaimer regarding any information given, and am sure they have probably also written that the onus is on the traveller to check all local current visa requirements and laws. So I am sure that LP cannot be sued for provising this information.

On the page facing the Table of Contents in every Lonely Planet Guide that I just spot-checked sits this statement: Although the authors and Lonely Planet try to make the information as accurate as possible, we accept no responsibility for any loss, injury or inconvenience sustained by anyone using this book.

They make sure they cover their butts but whether or not this generic disclaimer actually absolves them of any legal sins is something the lawyers will have to debate.

[taxexile]

from the bangkok post

Apec leaders expected to buy `elite' cards

Tourism Minister Sonthaya Kunpluem expects Apec leaders and delegates to snap up ``Thailand Elite Card'' packages at one million baht each.

Mr Sonthaya said he hoped the world leaders would buy the special cards which give life-long membership to individuals and 30-year membership to corporations. Cardholders would not have to leave Thailand for visa extensions as this could be arranged within the country, Mr Sonthaya said.

[DaveYo]

Scooter I’ve got news for your friends.

It will be at least 3 years for the conclusion of a court case here in Thailand.

If you were Japanese your Embassy may help you, but for others don’t waste your time.

I will take bet they get jail term and have to go to the Supreme Court after they loose their first appeal.

MaiChai Its not just about Visas.

Thailand are Rich now and don’t need our money now they have paid their DEBTS.

Axel is right except for one suggestion.

Thailand won’t care what the rest of the world will think.

ChiangMaiThai why would they arrest a Thai that has no money and brought great wealth to Thailand.

Lonely Planet could be up for legal action against them if they have backed this Visa Scam.

wilson steer Expect to support him for the next 3 years while he can not leave the country.

JT65 The Thai Computer system is better than we give credit for.

I suggest that even with a new replacement Passport you work out what could be on computer and what is not before you hand yourself in.

And don’t forget that the Thai Immigration would have been given all the lists of foreigners that have used the illegal services so that the Thai owners would not be charged for helping stamp out corrupt visitors.

I suggest to those who stay in Thailand with scammed Visas think about changing address before they come looking for you at the address you filled in on the Visa form at the scam office.

I approached this forum for help before and some laughed.

You got no chance of them helping your friend.

Bangkokblue There is an answer just stay tuned.

I wanted to start a website solely listing Thai corruption. Is anyone interested.

It will run from Australia Land of the Free.

Can anyone help now.

DaveYo the average person with no money wont last more than 3 weeks in a Thai Jail before doing himself in.

If you go in and have no money or friends on the outside you will die there.

The King didn’t even know their was a Coo on years ago until he seen it on TV

Bob Chittie After getting a new Passport in BKK you are required to go straight to the Thai Immigration (which I have been through) For them to check it with their records.

If you do it at a border and have problems you will see what #### and the Devil himself look like. At least in BKK you may only see ####.

Roger13 Being stolen may not be so bad. You could blame someone else for the stamps.

But I think even if lost you are still required to report it to police.

 

DaveYo the average person with no money wont last more than 3 weeks in a Thai Jail before doing himself in.

If you go in and have no money or friends on the outside you will die there.

The King didn’t even know their was a Coo on years ago until he seen it on TV

Hold it twentyfour,   where did this come in???   You must be quoting someone else, not me.  I did not mention any of the above here.

As to the Thai Jails, from what I hear, and read  it has to be one hellish of a joint.  I just wonder how the others are going to make it.  So I guess we all better have our bail money safely tucked aside, cause one never knows when it will come in handy.

Now those who have bailed out and obviously had their passports taken away because of the faulty stamps, I am sure if they want they can find a way to disappear out of harms way and be home, they might do it.  If they do reach home I don't think any judge in their country will allow such extradiction based on a faulty stamp and when told such is ten years in jail, protection of their citizens takes precedence.  It is not a super major crime and no one was killed or robbed or maimed or raped or whatever.  In my opinion this stamp should be a misdemeanor offense.

One might want to call for the MOD Squad.

For me it makes no sense looking down the pipe of 10 years for a faulty stamp, yet again rules are rules, so its an impasse to both sides.

:blues:

[Khun ?]

Thailand has had a bumper rice crop this year. The only way

the government can capitlize on this and make decent money is by selling it through the government to prisons for farangs

at about $5 plate and you are still getting last years rice.

The chinese recently invested 500 million baht in the thai prison catering business. Movies soon to come presented by

Shinawatra productions.

Enjoy your stay.

  Papa Tak

[DaveYo]

Now that is odd, why would the chinese be so interested in the Thai Prison system, dealing with rice.  Thought that it is Thai people who control the prison.  All I know is that is the last place I would want to see ever.

And some member made the quote of the day.  If you don't have anyone from the outside or any money you won't last there more than 3 months.  That is a very scary thought.  I shudder to envision myself in such situation, and behold it makes me my knees chatter.  

But one need not worry if you do everything legit.  That is the key to the whole thing.  

:blues:

[caughtintheact]

Dave,

The ethnic Chinese control everything in this country that involves money, whether or not they call themselves Thai or Thai-Chinese.

[DaveYo]

Does anyone know where to find this recent story and news that 360 Foreigners have been arrested and the Embassies are now going crazy?

I tried to find it, so where is it?

:blues:

[bluebear]

from the bangkok post

Apec leaders expected to buy `elite' cards

Tourism Minister Sonthaya Kunpluem expects Apec leaders and delegates to snap up ``Thailand Elite Card'' packages at one million baht each.

Mr Sonthaya said he hoped the world leaders would buy the special cards which give life-long membership to individuals and 30-year membership to corporations. Cardholders would not have to leave Thailand for visa extensions as this could be arranged within the country, Mr Sonthaya said.

Absolutely pigging typical.  

We are in the midst of one of the biggest crackdowns on stamps and visa extentions possibly in the countrys' history and here we have the Tourism Minister saying if you pay us 1 million Baht you dont have to leave the country to have the visa extended.      

SHOW US THE MONEY!!!!  as the saying goes and you will be ok.

[Ajarn]

Hmmmmm, you know it is kinda strange that they being the Immigration does not take into consideration of the medical situation of expats, thus forcing them to make these runs.  If we have a heart condition or have arthritis that curtails our activities in going any distance what about we do?  

The immigrations should have some leeway in not forcing the expats to make these runs due to medical reasons, and grant the visas for long term.  

This is my opinion, seeing what the problems can be forthright and coming for the aging cronies.

:blues:

I called CM immigration this morning...I had a stroke and am paralyzed on my left side, making it nearly impossible to travel or walk...Immigration told that if I get a letter from my doctor stating that, due to medical reasons, I can't leave the country, immigration will give me 90 day extensions of my current non-im until I can travel again...

Problem solved, I think. I'll be trying this next week. I'll report back here, too

[Ajarn]

The King didn’t even know their was a Coo on years ago until he seen it on TV

Total bullocks..Let's keep crap like that outa this place. We need real info here, not stupid lies.

[scooter]

to JT 75

>>From your post I gather that losing the passport is not a bad option based on the fact that they  pull up your LAST stamp.

correct

>>I would assume this may be helped if you photocopy your last stamp with TM card prior to losing it.

only if your last stamp and TM cards are good ones. You do not need either as all the Immigration need is your old passport number or personal details to pull up your immigration information

>> So if your worried about stamps from a year or so ago and the recent ones or at least the last one is okay then losing your passport could be the best option.

if you are worried about ANY of your stamps, from the last one to the one a few years ago, you may be best to lose your passport.

>>There are many people concerned about stamps from a year ago or more when they used an agent. They obviously changed their ways since that time and recent stamps have been obtained by themselves, but they are worried about been caught on the old stamps. For these people a new passport may be the answer

correct

on another note, could scaremongers please save their unhelpful posts for some other website or other thread. I am sick of wasting time reading through bullsh*t posted by people.

Also, if you are only guessing about information, please state that when you post it. There are a lot of VERY scared (and rightfully so) foreigners around thailand at the moment reading this website who dont need to read speculations or dubious information from people with too much time on their hands.

[caughtintheact]

Ajarn,

Are you too young to apply for a retirement visa?  Then you don't have to leave the country anymore unless you want to.

[Kan Win]

Dave Yo, Posted: Sep. 22 2003,10:39

Boo, first of all congrats on your pending Wedding!  Hey all members of this forum, lets tip our hats to the soon to be Bride!

Going to Penang Thai Embassy in person should be OK for you, just avoid runners or anybody who wants to assist you with your passport

*********************************************

Take the Bride with you...... and the Marriage Certificate ........Thai of course.....Other M.C's outside of Thailand ones, I do not know ??

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mesquite Posted: Sep. 22 2003,11:02

It seems Brits are being targeted.

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Why do you think Brits are living here and not there ?????? U.K.  Blair.................... also not APEC member......

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JT65 Posted: Sep. 22 2003,13:11

If anyone has heard of an APEC foreigner been arrested would appreciate if they could post the info.

*********************************************

Yes, I have read about Cam's, Burm, Loas caught................ No Am's or Aussies of yet..........

Maybe, also, it is beacuse of FTA talks between these countries and Thailand .........

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twentyfourhoursx7  Posted: Sep. 22 2003,18:51

Nice one...................

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Dave Yo, Posted: Sep. 23 2003,06:54

Does anyone know where to find this recent story and news that 360 Foreigners have been arrested and the Embassies are now going crazy?

********************************************

Yes, this is a case of BSE, better know as Mad Cows Disease, and even better know as : wait for it.........

Bull S**t in English = BSE.......... Think about that one.......

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Ajarn Posted: Sep. 23 2003,12:49

********************************************

Here Here

Really a good post.

Long Life the King.

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scooter Posted: Sep. 23 2003,15:56

could scaremongers please save their unhelpful posts for some other website or other thread. I am sick of wasting time reading through bullsh*t posted by people.

Also, if you are only guessing about information, please state that when you post it. There are a lot of VERY scared (and rightfully so) foreigners around thailand at the moment reading this website who dont need to read speculations or dubious information from people with too much time on their hands.

*******************************************

Thank you for this post, Best one yet. Great...............

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[twentyfourhoursx7]

Ajarn

While the Coo was on a Thai Minister sheltered in my house in Australia other wise he may have been put in Jail or killed.

I am going on what I was told about the Kings part.

Scooter I have no answers for anyone how to get out of this situation. But I have been through the Criminal court system and still going through it. I am out on bail waiting appeal. I was found Guilty after 3 years of court. 5 witnesses for the other side an one 3 for me including myself and piles of paperwork that proved we did the work.

Our lawyer interview all witnesses in the court. The prosecutor didn’t interview me or any of my witnesses or question our evidence he wasn’t even in the court for mine or my witnesses questioning. And the judge found me guilty.

The point for people wondering what to do is: it doesn’t matter whether you did the right thing. It the point about Thais loosening Face

[DaveYo]

Twentyfour, I have some questions concerning your situation.

First, you say you did go to court and had your trial.  From the way I see what you wrote, without a prosecutor to prosecute your case yet you got found guilty, is kangaroo.

Secondly if the Prosecution did not dispute any of your evidence or anything that the witnesses testimony, provided all was in your favor, you should have asked for a direct verdict of not guilty if the prosecution did not offer any evidence to prove their side other than an accusation.   However it is known at times that one can be guilty on just mere circumstances without any evidence to prove otherwise, which happens here in USA.   However their is a major court error in your case because the Government was not present in your trial, or prosecutor to represent the government.  This is grounds for reversal of such conviction and it will be up to the court to either allow another re-trial or simply throw the case to the garbage can and it is over if the Government does not want to re-try your case.

I am sort of saying what goes on here in USA, and remember in Thailand, I am not that familiar with the justice system there, but from what you told us it would seem to be just as bad and those who do crimes.  I wonder because one farang committed murder and killed a thai woman, and the reason for the murder was she had another lover, and the farang admitted the killing and did have his trial and was found not guilty of this crime, and I think they also persona non grata him as the other condition, so he vamoosed out of thailand first chance he got in case they would have changed their minds.  This one was in the news forum.

Like I said before, every case is different, and I would like to hear from a real bona-fide Thai Lawyer in this forum to clarify to us expats on what to do with these faulty stamps and how to find the way to avoid the immigrations from banging the foreigners for this snafu.

So currently the only option is to make the PP disappear, get another new one, pay the fine and then either you get to stay or high tail it out of there pronto just to save their butts from looking at 10 years down the pipe.

[Boo]

Hi Kan Win, Thanks for the advice but on a personal note... I am the bride!  But I will most certainly be taking Thai Hubby & marriage papers with me to the border & hope for the best, I may even apply for a new passport in my married name & take the voided old one & valid new one to the border where they will stamp me out on the old one & stamp into malaysia on the new one, after which, I am clean. Thus reducing the risk of over scrutiny twice (This was confirmed to be the correct proceedure by am officer of Samui immigration, whether it is true is yet to be seen!  TiT)

[Ajarn]

Ajarn,

Are you too young to apply for a retirement visa?  Then you don't have to leave the country anymore unless you want to.

Yeah, I'm still a kid

I'm 48...The guy at immigration I talked to (in the 'visa-extension' section) did say that if I have 3 mil in the bank, I can get a one-year extension on my current non-im. I'll be following-up on this option, too, to see if it's as simple as that....Otherwise, I'll try to hang on until I'm a certified Dinosaur in a couple of years

I know many people are consindering moving on to other places because of all these changes and harrassments going on. For myself, I've invested almost half my life here, and I still love the place...Thaksin not included. Thailand still is the best place in the region, overall, in my opinion. I have no family, no home and no life in American anymore. Thailand is My Home, for better, or for worse. That's the choice I made a long time ago, and I still see no reason for changing....unless I run out of money, of course!

[Ajarn]

Ajarn

While the Coo was on a Thai Minister sheltered in my house in Australia other wise he may have been put in Jail or killed.

I am going on what I was told about the Kings part.

I was in Chiang Mai during the last coup (coo in Oz, I guess), as was the King, chillin' (I hope) in his home above us...The coup happened when Chatchai, on his way to see the King (by appointment only!) with some proposed changes in the military line-up. He was abducted, at gunpoint, while his plane was on the tarmac waiting to take off for Chiang Mai. Of course the King was informed...How ridiculous for someone to suggest that, under the circumstances....

And, there was no media coverage at all....As in any coup, the media is completely quiet for a period of time...The TV had nothing, the radio was playing military march music (that was when people knew something was up) It wasn't for a couple of days before any details starting becoming public. In downtown Chiang Mai, the only signs were a few jeeps with 50 calibre machine guns mounted (and manned), cruising around...No one seemed to pay much attention. I went up the road to the King's palace, and the only thing I saw were a *few* extra guards at the gates, and one more jeep with gun. Nobody payed any attention to me, and didn't seem to be concerned about much, since they were just hanging around, chatting to each other, some munching on noodles...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Who was the Thai Minister 24 hours ? And what heinous crime were you charged with in LOS ?

[francois]

A diplomatic source said: "Many of those arrested were categorically not here for the sights or the culture."

What a diplomatic remark  

because "they think that after years living here we still come and go to "visit" touristic places...

when I think that the same people that are making the new rules about immigration tried to launch a campaign for foreigners living here for us to travel more inside the country ...

paytio  

it looks like diplomats here don't like backpackers and long-stay guys, might be that they know well where they spend their time, might be that some share the same time  

[Axel]

I am an American citizen and will be leaving the kingdom in a few days for a trip to India.  My passport of chock-full of (legal) Thai entry/exit stamps.  It will be interesting to see if the older stamps receive any scrutiny from outbound immigrations.

Just left on 22nd and returned 24th afternoon. On the way out at BKK ap just chopped for exit, did look at the computer.Today back at BKK airport searched all pages BUT only looking for an empty space. So there I can assure  you no problem. As you say all legal. Could be, my re-entry is on the backflap of the passport, so they don't feel necessary to check more. Funny thing, btw, my passport has (but for 2 VN-trips) ONLY Thai-chops, no other country. Nobody ever questioned this.

[Bud Zumwalt]

I just returned from two foreign countries, Bermuda and the Bahamas, part of the job of being a Yacht Captain. I am in and out of foreign countries all the time with little or no hassles.I read every post on this subject. I have never heard of a situation like this anywhere, by just spending short stays in many other countries I at least hear from the long stays in the Caribbean and many other countries world wide. I am considering a long stay in Thailand, but I am very upset with the seemingly lawlessness of this country, where the policy and law enforcements are so biased against Westerners. Equally dismaying are the remarks that lack objectivity ignoring the feelings of Westerners about too lose everything they have, maybe even their lives if they cannot afford the payoffs necessary to stay alive in a jail system as seemingly as corrupt as the government officials who allowed the illegal activities to openly operate, even openly advertise, fooling many naive  new Westerners trying to make a life in Thailand.

This country seems not a democracy, and appears to be acting more like a dictatorship. Maybe a more civilized country should be considered for anyone considering retiring or even living within Thailand, look at what Costa Rica offers, no high income $750 a month, compare the per capita personal income of Thailand, which is less then $2,000 a year of their Thailand country people live on compared to the $19,000 needed by an American, I could meet that but many farangs already there may not if they purchased land of property already. My example of Costa Rica is just an example for comparison. Costa Rica offers stability, can own property in your name, lots of nice ladies from all over the world, if you committed a crime in the past and it is in the past then they do not blacklist you from coming in and getting a work or retirement VISA, I mean lets face it guys/ladies unfortunately Thailand is now showing extreme prejudices towards Westerners, lawlessness, lack of consideration of human rights or humanity if incarcerated. I must say, Thailand scares me to death. Is this the image Thailand wants too show the rest of the world. It would seem in their best interest to learn from the West, take a new avenue of approach towards human rights and consideration for humanity. Thailand has many good things to offer, I hope they do not due themselves in by being so unreasonable everyone is afraid to enter or stay within their country for more than a few weeks of holiday, and when the word gets out how many Westerners will even support their tourist trade. Come on Thai Govenment on this site, and I believe there are many reading this site daily, some even as support personnel on this site, give us a break, we are not bad people, all we want is to be treated right!

Bud

[pschef]

At last some good constuctive news from Axel, I worry about my friend due to arrive next week. We both did a now ilegal visa run in 2201, I have assurance that it was done legally? Lets see when he enters Thailand? I still never post the name of the agent, what I can say he is still in business???

Anyone know the border point Padangbasar? I would just wondering????

[pschef]

Hey Bud

I want to come and stay with you for a while, maybe I will transfer my asset over to your place

Thailand is becoming as you say very much a dictatorship, God bless Mr Thaksin. I truly believe he wants a better Thailand, but his methods are suspect

[DaveYo]

pfchef, if you can contact your friend now while he is still out of thailand, and please do ask him the most important question ever.  Did he use agencies or runners to get his stamps past 2 or 3 years?  If he did , then suspect he might have a faulty stamp on his passport, and you do the rest to give him the latest news advisorys, and somehow if the stamps (if any one of them just one being faulty) please do tell him to shuck that passport he got and get a new one while he is out of the country now.  It makes no sense to see your friend come and face the 10 ball down the pipe.

They are doing random checks at all points like George and Dr. PP have said, and if it was me I would rather have a peace of mind than to worry and sweat it out once there.  Glory be.

:blues:

[DaveYo]

Axel, you said they looked at the computer, but not that much on your passport.

I wonder, just as a suspicion that the computer got names of those who have faulty stamps?  So when one comes to such officer, they look at the computer and if your name is on the hot list, that is when they will check that passport.  If it is the one with all the stamps they will search to find that faulty stamp.  If you got a new one, then such is possibly recorded by the officer and your name might be taken off the hot list, cause nothing shows on your new passport.

Sounds like they got a hot list from someone that they busted but are not saying how they got that list.

What do you think?

:blues:

[Khun ?]

If the visa run is set up with no one looking at you going in and out, how do you know they are not looking at somone else coming in on your passport.

 What is wrong with the government saying we show you have spent xxx number of days in our country each year for last xxx years we want you to be listed as long term resident

please meet the rules of the country because we do not appreciate you documenting yourself as a tourist when in fact

we have been your resident for the xxx amount of time. Specially when these same people are using back door visa services to hide the fact they are actually living in Thailand

( A double Whammy). Maybe just the fact the amount of long stay tourist ripping off other tourist to survive illegally in country is a problem in itself, also (boiler room operations come to mind). There is several of these people and salesmen

that are going to make you so much money with your money

why did they not do it with their own. Be cautious Pakwan salesmen in operation zones need to be established if the continous multiple 90 day visas are to continue.

[twentyfourhoursx7]

ARE YOU SAFE WITH A FAKE STAMP?

Think about this

1 You come in Thailand legal (computer records you in)

2 you use illegal service they stamp you out legal (computer records you leave Thailand)

3 they use illegal stamp to bring your pass port in (no computer records to show you come in to Thailand)

4 you leave Thailand legal (Computer shows you leave)

5 No matter if you loose your Passport and get a new one how do you explain how you got in to Thailand in point 3?

6 any data base can check in moments that the ins don’t match the outs and can print the names and addresses instantly then the person goes onto the CRIMINAL WANTED list probably by computer to the police department.

7 if you used the false service ever, by this calculation the government will know you have even without your passport.

8 SHIT!!!!

[kenkannif]

But if they can input that you left why wouldn't they be able to input that you came back? Makes no sense!

Guesswork ain't going to help anyone, is it?