From: At Least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

[george]

POLITICAL TURMOIL

CRACKDOWN BEGINS

BANGKOK: -- At least 77 were injured as troops, firing tear gas and shots into the air, moved in to retake the Din Daeng intersection near Victory Monument from protesters.

Troops, firing shots into the air, have apparently retaken control of the Din Daeng intersection from red-shirted protesters, according to TV news reports. There were reportedly some injuries but no immediate reports of death.

At least 77 people suffered minor injuries, many from tear gas, according to hospital reports. About five persons were seriously injured. The red-shirted movement claimed "several" of its members suffered gunshot wounds, and condemned the authorities' use of live bullets in the crackdown.

TV news footage showed soldiers firing shots into the air. Tear gas was also fired, TV reporters at the scene said. A few hundred troops were involved in the operation.

At around 7.20 am, the government announced it was in control of the situation at Din Daeng.

The clash took place around 4 am and left about 50 soldiers and protesters injured, it was reported. Gunshots were still heard after 5 am, but not as intensely as when the crackdown began.

One TV reporter quoted "runaway" protesters as saying that there might have been some deaths. The government reported no death.

The troops were pushing from the Din Daeng intersection toward the Victory Monument. Protesters were scattered and retreated from the intersection to the moment. It appeared that the troops were in almost complete control of the Din Daeng intersection after 6 am.

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, Army spokesman, said 300 protesters were in the area when security forces including soldiers and police moved in. He said the troops first tried to negotiate with the protesters, who were allegedly armed with molotov cocktails and tear gas themselves.

He said the talks broke down after some protesters tried to ram buses against the troops.

"The troops had to fire into the air. I repeat. They fired into the air and took action against the protesters," he said.

Some arrests were made, he said, adding that "reluctant participants" of the protest who were forced to stay by fellow protesters were released.

"Similar operations will be carried out in other areas," he said.

Protesters have burnt tyres on a few spots in the Din Daeng area, and there have been concern that red-shirted protesters would resort to arson in response to the crackdown.

Several intersections were still occupied Sunday night by the protesters, who used buses to barricade several major roads, spawning massive traffic jams. Police said up to 30,000 demonstrators were scattered around the city. Police vans at some intersections were abandoned and looted, AP reported.

Protest leaders have woken up red-shirted demonstrators at Government House to inform them of the Din Daeng incident and tell them to prepare themselves for a possible crackdown.

Gunshots at Din Daeng intersection could still be heard around 5 am, but not as intense as an hour earlier. TV footage showed some wounded protesters taken into military vehicles.

Earlier, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has assured the nation that there is no disharmony within the government as well as key agencies responsible for enforcing law and order.

In a late-night television address, Abhisit was flanked by all key government, military and police leaders, a setting apparently intended to stamp out persistent speculation that he was losing support of top police and military officers.

He said the rumours were intended to weaken the government which has been trying to restore law and order through peaceful means.

"There have been a lot of rumours and I would like the Thai media to report on the truth to the Thai public," he said.

Among false reports, he said, were claims that security forces had already resorted to violence to suppress the red-shirted protesters.

The prime minister insisted that a united government remained confident that the situation would improve in the next few days.

Abhisit had vowed not to bow to the red-shirted protesters' demand for him to either step down or dissolve the House, and expressed confidence that the military and the police, whom he had reportedly criticised in private, were still firmly on his side. It had been reported that Abhisit singled out police chief Patcharawat Wongsuwan for sharp criticism following Saturday's collapse of the Asean summit with dialogue partners.

Coup rumours were intense late Sunday afternoon but seemed to subside late into the night. Speculation now was focused on when security forces would move against protesters occupying some key areas in the city.

-- The Nation 2009-04-13

[wrecker]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

[meelousee]

Looks feels and sounds like Beirut when the crackdown began there I was at the Holiday Inn Beirut.

This time I was at the Federal Hotel Soi 11.

One of the staff called me and told me I should get ready to go home, I was already having a coffee when the call came.

Looks like the PM will not make the same mistakes he made in Pattaya

[meelousee]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

You are right about the logistics, but since the Army is using live ammo they may well be on the road to a show of force if they are many will die and many will be wounded.

The reds do not seem to want to talk but rather confront. That is a formula for mayhem

[glasshock]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

[kuwaittemp]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

What a logical and good response. Seems it doesn't need to be said, but obviously...........

[bertlamar]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

yesterday, they had no problem completely preventing people from going home etc, and they will and do physically intimidate motorists trying to merely go about their business - I personally was threatened yesterday, apparently me trying to go home is in some way a massive afforont to some fight for democracy.

Since basically by the looks of them these are not exactly a highly educated group, few probably actually pay tax, few seem that they are in gainful employment and a fair few seem to think they can break the law, well then they must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

This force is justified, and probably what should ahve been done at the airport; by letting the yellow shirts get away with stuff, now the red shirts have gone even further; what we saw on the news shows they are thugs and therefore deserve to be treated with the respect that a foot ball thugs gets.

Edited April 13, 2009 by bertlamar

[madjbs]

Government ignores the problem like when Somchai was PM, Thai Visa experts complain and moan.

Government does it's job and takes control of Violent protesters disrupting everyones life, Thai Visa experts complain moan.

What is it with people here,?

[Phil Conners]

Where are the water cannons?

[Knightsbridge]

According to the BBc there are 100 000 reds in and around the capital...Thai English newspapers are saying otherwise...

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

[h90]

According to the BBc there are 100 000 reds in and around the capital...Thai English newspapers are saying otherwise...

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

I read from 1000 to 100.000

On the yellow it was the same from 5000 to 550000.

Seems everyone just putting any number which comes in his mind.

[steven100]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

What a logical and good response. Seems it doesn't need to be said, but obviously...........

Logic response ... ( you cannot argue with common sense )

Agreed ..... The Red shirts have shown complete disrespect for the law and therefore should be held accountable.

You can have a peacefull protest to get your point accross... but they had no intention of a peacefull protest ....

I was watching Aljazara TV this morning and the head huncho was just making excuse after excuse when asked why the government car was attacked ... why was the government building siezed .... he said the protesters were enraged ... Well if they are so enraged why not go home and tip a cold bucket of water over there heads to cool down....

These guys are breaking the law .. they deserve the punishment...good on the army for taking action against these protesters.

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly... Thats what happens in a democratic society...

IMO..

[jerryb78]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

yep, as guest we should observed history in the making. i feel for the people and love thailand. I was born and raise here and my mom is thai. i feel like a citizen here eventhough i'm an american. but some one need to take a step and it does not matter which road they take. they government got to do something quick. take innocent lives or step down.

one thing i know for sure is "there will be blood" . Should i be the first to predict a "Bloody Songkarn" ?

sorry, if i sound like a heart less butt hole. but reality is reality. but when you have 2 group if people who are arm with weapon ( the red and the army) in such close proximity, someone will probaly loose their nurve and unintentionally pull a trigger. once a fire is shot, all hel_l brake loose . war has began that way.

[siamjj]

Government ignores the problem like when Somchai was PM, Thai Visa experts complain and moan.

Government does it's job and takes control of Violent protesters disrupting everyones life, Thai Visa experts complain moan.

What is it with people here,?

the baht is a powerful tool,thaksin pulling the strings from abroad,nice.many people will surely die and it will start all over again.nice.los+loh(land of hurt)

[meelousee]

Government ignores the problem like when Somchai was PM, Thai Visa experts complain and moan.

Government does it's job and takes control of Violent protesters disrupting everyones life, Thai Visa experts complain moan.

What is it with people here,?

What? I havent read a complaint on this thread YET!

But since you brought it up REMEMBER some of the folks here are pro Red Some are Con Red and yet still some are pro con's

Edited April 13, 2009 by meelousee

[aussimike]

POLITICAL TURMOIL

CRACKDOWN BEGINS

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, Army spokesman, said 300 protesters were in the area when security forces including soldiers and police moved in. He said the troops first tried to negotiate with the protesters, who were allegedly armed with molotov cocktails and tear gas themselves.

He said the talks broke down after some protesters tried to ram buses against the troops.

"The troops had to fire into the air. I repeat. They fired into the air and took action against the protesters," he said.

well despite what the army spokesman has to say - i saw a brief new clip - and i mean brief - and only aired once of soldiers taking aim with their rifles = no way shooting in the air or do they conside the air is front of them while they take aim of human targets to be shooting into the air - suggest they undergo weapons training again -- but if they think the people will believe what they are told - really dont think so - no like in the old days -- or is this another case of mushroom mentality -- keep the people in the dark and feed them bullsh+t --- the masses are getting a little smarter -

[frogz]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

yesterday, they had no problem completely preventing people from going home etc, and they will and do physically intimidate motorists trying to merely go about their business - I personally was threatened yesterday, apparently me trying to go home is in some way a massive afforont to some fight for democracy.

Since basically by the looks of them these are not exactly a highly educated group, few probably actually pay tax, few seem that they are in gainful employment and a fair few seem to think they can break the law, well then they must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

This force is justified, and probably what should ahve been done at the airport; by letting the yellow shirts get away with stuff, now the red shirts have gone even further; what we saw on the news shows they are thugs and therefore deserve to be treated with the respect that a foot ball thugs gets.

Well, live rounds are not generally used on football hooligans. It's clear that the police and army back who they want to and come out when they feel it necessary. We are all aware who they back.They're happy when they get their version of democracy. Either way, red, yellow or whatever colour, the country needs a force that can deal with civil unrest. Live rounds are not necessaryfor crowd control. Water cannons and rubber bullets are used elsewhere in the world. If these had been used on the PAD earlier in their campaign of civil unrest, then we wouldn't have had the situation that we have today. They got away with it for weeks and there was no action taken when they effectively brought Thailand's transport system to a stand still. This should simply not be allowed to happen.

[wedders]

If they come to CM, I hope the army will be there and maybe will use gun...

After 10 or 20 (or 50?) deads, maybe people will be less crazy !

So you hope people will die? I 'hope' a stray bullet comes your way then.

People like you should go back to where you originated from.

[steven100]

Logic response ... ( you cannot argue with common sense )

Agreed ..... The Red shirts have shown complete disrespect for the law and therefore should be held accountable.

You can have a peacefull protest to get your point accross... but they had no intention of a peacefull protest ....

I was watching Aljazara TV this morning and the head huncho was just making excuse after excuse when asked why the government car was attacked ... why was the government building siezed .... he said the protesters were enraged ... Well if they are so enraged why not go home and tip a cold bucket of water over there heads to cool down....

These guys are breaking the law .. they deserve the punishment...good on the army for taking action against these protesters.

Also, I blame Taksin as part of the problem as he is enticing them to cause mayhem and revolt... he should be extradited and charged accordingly... Thats what happens in a democratic society...

IMO..

[tijnebijn]

If they come to CM, I hope the army will be there and maybe will use gun...

After 10 or 20 (or 50?) deads, maybe people will be less crazy !

So you hope people will die? I 'hope' a stray bullet comes your way then.

People like you should go back to where you originated from.

people taking their time to give posts like this should be given a warning or banned .

I understand people get heated up with all the turmoil running , but its really disturbing

to read such comments and says alot about the poster posting .............

[CMFarang]

Rubber Bullets , Tear gas , and Water Cannons.. Effective enough ......

All Farang are requested to wear Green Shirts and stay home and do nothing , or attend a Local Irish Pub and moan some more..

after 15 years in the Kingdom , I am still constantly amazed by the basic problem solving abilities of the Powers that Be..

AMAZING THAILAND is still my favorite Motto...

Edited April 13, 2009 by CMFarang

[dude007]

Where are the water cannons?

Left home to avoid confusion w ith the Songkran water canons...

[Chaimai]

"The troops had to fire into the air. I repeat. They fired into the air and took action against the protesters," he said.

well despite what the army spokesman has to say - i saw a brief new clip - and i mean brief - and only aired once of soldiers taking aim with their rifles = no way shooting in the air or do they conside the air is front of them while they take aim of human targets to be shooting into the air - suggest they undergo weapons training again -- but if they think the people will believe what they are told - really dont think so - no like in the old days -- or is this another case of mushroom mentality -- keep the people in the dark and feed them bullsh+t --- the masses are getting a little smarter -

So, you weren't there, saw one brief clip but still feel qualified to recommend retraining for the Royal Thai Army - maybe it is you suffering from the mushroom mentality.

Personally, I think that the authorities have shown remarkable restraint and there is no doubt that the government do not wish to see casualties - even if such restraint causes them severe international embarassment.

The Thai spokesman, a short while ago, spoke eloquently in English to reassure Thai and foreigners that the the government was slowly restoring control and a couple of security measures would be taken to continue this.

fascinating to see the constrasting TV pictures of Din Daeng area and Khao San Road. There seems to be an equal amount of 'weapons' and water. In one area they are playing Songkran - in the other they are playing............war games ? politics ?... with fire ??

[shawndoc]

well despite what the army spokesman has to say - i saw a brief new clip - and i mean brief - and only aired once of soldiers taking aim with their rifles = no way shooting in the air or do they conside the air is front of them while they take aim of human targets to be shooting into the air - suggest they undergo weapons training again -- but if they think the people will believe what they are told - really dont think so - no like in the old days -- or is this another case of mushroom mentality -- keep the people in the dark and feed them bullsh+t --- the masses are getting a little smarter -

If they fired into the crowd there will be plenty of people going to the hospital and plenty dead of gunshots. You'd also have the reds all over TV screaming about it.

The fact they aren't would mean that they soldiers didn't fire bullets into the crowd. They likely aimed but didn't fire, or were firing tear gas canisters.

[wasabi]

In this day and age there are many very powerful nonlethal forms of crowd dispersion such as sound and heat producing weapons that can clear a crowd in minutes. With Thailand's propensity to have mobs gather I can't understand why they don't invest in such tools? They could have brought such a weapon to the ASEAN Summit and had that crowd hottailing back to their normal routine in Issan like getting drunk on a porch somewhere and knocking up the local girls, or racking up a big gambling debt and robbing their neighbors. Rather than disgracing Thailand, worsening the economy and thus having repercussions that worse the lot for everyone.

Edited April 13, 2009 by wasabi

[wedders]

If they come to CM, I hope the army will be there and maybe will use gun...

After 10 or 20 (or 50?) deads, maybe people will be less crazy !

So you hope people will die? I 'hope' a stray bullet comes your way then.

People like you should go back to where you originated from.

people taking their time to give posts like this should be given a warning or banned .

I understand people get heated up with all the turmoil running , but its really disturbing

to read such comments and says alot about the poster posting .............

That's crazy, I posted my response precisely because of the outrageous nature of the original comment, and deliberately quoted 'hope' in throwing it back at him to show how unpleasant it sounded in the first place.

Some people haven't got the sense to read between the lines, it seems.

[vicco]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

yesterday, they had no problem completely preventing people from going home etc, and they will and do physically intimidate motorists trying to merely go about their business - I personally was threatened yesterday, apparently me trying to go home is in some way a massive afforont to some fight for democracy.

Since basically by the looks of them these are not exactly a highly educated group, few probably actually pay tax, few seem that they are in gainful employment and a fair few seem to think they can break the law, well then they must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

This force is justified, and probably what should ahve been done at the airport; by letting the yellow shirts get away with stuff, now the red shirts have gone even further; what we saw on the news shows they are thugs and therefore deserve to be treated with the respect that a foot ball thugs gets.

Well, live rounds are not generally used on football hooligans. It's clear that the police and army back who they want to and come out when they feel it necessary. We are all aware who they back.They're happy when they get their version of democracy. Either way, red, yellow or whatever colour, the country needs a force that can deal with civil unrest. Live rounds are not necessaryfor crowd control. Water cannons and rubber bullets are used elsewhere in the world. If these had been used on the PAD earlier in their campaign of civil unrest, then we wouldn't have had the situation that we have today. They got away with it for weeks and there was no action taken when they effectively brought Thailand's transport system to a stand still. This should simply not be allowed to happen.

How would you know if they were live rounds or not? Blanks sound just the same when fired into the air! Firing a few bursts into the air is pretty standard riot control stuff. Gets attention. The government side has stated that 4 soldiers were shot and wounded. Did they shoot each other?

[rainman]

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

Abhisit himself said yesterday that there were around 50,000. And we all know he underestimates it greatly.

Then this morning he said "the government would rush to ease the tensions."

Ease tensions? By shooting with live ammunition at protesters?

This is turning into a people's revolution, and Abhisit is on the losing end. He's gone.

[Chaimai]

If they come to CM, I hope the army will be there and maybe will use gun...

After 10 or 20 (or 50?) deads, maybe people will be less crazy !

So you hope people will die? I 'hope' a stray bullet comes your way then.

People like you should go back to where you originated from.

people taking their time to give posts like this should be given a warning or banned .

I understand people get heated up with all the turmoil running , but its really disturbing

to read such comments and says alot about the poster posting .............

I agree entirely. When I read phanu's post I assumed he was Thai, same thought about Koo. My reason being that the Thais think, and post, with greater passion and feeling. Farangs will pontificate (I include myself) whereas some Thais give the impression that they would be 'happy' to see a few rebels killed for bringing this upon their country.

[stingray]

I personally beleve a democracy works only in a high educated country, like in Europe US or Australia, etc. In third world countries is better to be in dictatorship, because peaple aren't educated enought to understand politics and economics. I'm not here to critisize reds or yellows, as is not my right or country either, but demonstrations and protesters not solve the problem in both ways, doesn't matter who they are. It just f..ks up the economy and the tourists will not come either, not to mention the global bad situation we have anyway allready. Most of the bargirls and taxidrivers are on red side, but they don't understand that they will not get any income for the next maybe 6 months. Many Protesters are greedy and care only about their daily 1000 Baht they get during a demonstration. Protesters shotting them self in the feet as they gonna lose Jobs and income, therefore democracy not really work. Just a classic example. Paraguay is a military regime for decades and it works fine. Another thing, i'm not a fan of Saddams Regime, but Saddam had his country totally under control. When the Americans came and try to create a democracy in Irak, the troubles started and still not finished yet.