Visa For Step Daughter

[Burbonizer]

Hi all,

It's been a very long time since i have posted here. My wife entered the UK back in November 2006. We married Feb 2007 and found a place to rent April 2008. She was granted ILR in April 2009. So all is great on the immigration of my wife.

The reason i am posting is to ask some advice regarding my step daughter.

3 Months after meeting my wife in Thailand her ex-boyfriend went to her parents house and took her 3 month old duaghter from her and demanded money for her return. The ammount of money he was requesting was ridiculous and therefore we agreed to send money to her daughter via my wifes bank account based in Thailand. This has gone on now for 2-3 years. My wife is very anxious to get her daughter back of course.

The other day whilst speaking to the family members of her ex-boyfriend (the ones that take care of her, not him) said that he has agreed to let my wife take her and bring her to the UK. My wife is extremly pleased about this news and wants to get her here ASAP.

I have no idea on where to start. First what visa form is it that i look at. Do we have to get him to sign anything? When applying for this visa do i have to show i have plans for school already setup and care whilst at work or do we turn up and they look at our funds and stamp it. We have a lot of Thai friends now over in the UK which have their children here with them. When asked how to do it they say it's easy. But i think alot of things have changed in 5 - 6 years since they did it.

I need some advice here from the very expereinced member of this forum. You help me so much whilst applying for my wifes visa and was hoping i could get some of the same help again this time.

All i know is so far i have to save about £2200 ASAP. Now it's down to the paperwork and politics.

Burbonizer

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Does your wife have a sole custody document ?

Why has she waited so long to apply for settlement for the child ?

The ECO will be looking to ensure also the child has not formed an independent family unit away from his natural Mother ?

Your first problem is the child should not be in the care of her Father, but should in fact be staying with her mothers family. How can you prove you have sole responsibility of the child when she is in the care of the Fathers family ?

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/chapter14/#point five

Edited May 4, 2009 by ThaiVisaExpress

[Mario2008]

You say ex-boyfriedn, so they were not married. Chances are good the ex-boyfriend didn't legitimise the child and doesn't have costudy.

Look at the child's birhcertificate and see who is listed there as the person who registered the child. If it is anyone else but the father, the child is not legitimised by the father.

[Burbonizer]

He took her daughter off her and moved from Korat to Krabi. He would not give her daughter back with out payment. Thats why we have waited so long. There was no point of trying without paying him. He wanted about 1 million baht.

We have been sending money. But it has been to my wifes account. Her sister then takes the money and gets it to her daughter.

I think he has the sole custody papers as he took everything when her took the daughter 2 years ago.

My wife speaks to her daughter on the phone and the daughter is 3 soon. She keeps asking when will her mommy come and get her.

I cant just leave this. How can a ECO decide the fate of people. When surely she will be better off here.

[Burbonizer]

You say ex-boyfriedn, so they were not married. Chances are good the ex-boyfriend didn't legitimise the child and doesn't have costudy.

Look at the child's birhcertificate and see who is listed there as the person who registered the child. If it is anyone else but the father, the child is not legitimised by the father.

No, they were never married. He took off as soon as he knew she was pregnant. Only shown up 3 months after she was born.

My wife registered the child, i am not too sure if she put his name on it though. Also he took all of these papers with him. But i suppose we could go to the ampur and get another copy of it all.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Burbonizer

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I have inserted a link to the guidance take a look at that.

[Mario2008]

Sounds like the mother has sole costudy. She alone has the right to determine the place where the child is staying and anyone preventing that is in serious trouble.

[Burbonizer]

I have inserted a link to the guidance take a look at that.

I have taken a look at it. It seems we would never get her. We have no proof of sending money to her directly. She has also not seen her daughter since she was 3 months old becuase of him.

How do i get this to work?

[Burbonizer]

Just spoken to the wife and she says that his name is on the birth certificate.

Also her bank in Thailand shows the transactions of sending money to her daughter.

So although his name in on the certificate does that mean my wife has sole custody becuase they were never married?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Sounds like the mother has sole costudy. She alone has the right to determine the place where the child is staying and anyone preventing that is in serious trouble.

Lets not get confused here sole custody is one thing sole responsibility is a totally different matter.As long as you demonstrate to the ECO that you satisfy the rules you will be issued with entry clearance for the child. You have to remember the Father could in fact challenge this once he gets wind of the fact his child may leave the country.But that is the worst case scenario he may well agree to his child settling in the UK.

One bit of good news is your wife is entitled to a UK passport immediately from whay you have said.

Edited May 4, 2009 by ThaiVisaExpress

[Mario2008]

Just spoken to the wife and she says that his name is on the birth certificate.

Also her bank in Thailand shows the transactions of sending money to her daughter.

So although his name in on the certificate does that mean my wife has sole custody becuase they were never married?

In case people are not married, the father has to legitimise the child. For that he not only has to be named on the birth certificate, but also be the one who registered the birth at the amphur. (His name should be twice on the Birth certificate: as father and as person who registered the birth). Your wife registered the birth, meaning he didn't recognise the child as his and he has no costudy over the child. So yes, your wife has sole costudy.

[Burbonizer]

If the parents' marriage/civil partnership has been dissolved, one of the parents must have been awarded legal custody, which includes assumption of responsibility for the child. (You should take care to ensure that the issue of a settlement entry clearance to the child will not contravene the terms of the custody order). Surely my wife has sole custody as they were never married.

Are the parents married / in a civil partnership? No

If the parent migrated to the UK:

how long has the parent been separated from the child ? 3 Years

what were the arrangements for the care of the child before and after the parent migrated ?She had no say as he took her

what has been/what is the parent's relationship with the child? She had not seen her for 3 years. But speaks to her on the phone and has requested photos.

By whom, and in what proportions, is the cost of the child's maintenance borne? My wife sends money so her daughter can eat and has clothes. He works when he wants to work so therfore can not really support his daughter.

Who takes the important decisions about the child's upbringing, for example where the child lives, the choice of school, religious practice etc? She had no say as he took her

[Burbonizer]

Sounds like the mother has sole costudy. She alone has the right to determine the place where the child is staying and anyone preventing that is in serious trouble.

Lets not get confused here sole custody is one thing sole responsibility is a totally different matter.As long as you demonstrate to the ECO that you satisfy the rules you will be issued with entry clearance for the child. You have to remember the Father could in fact challenge this once he gets wind of the fact his child may leave the country.But that is the worst case scenario he may well agree to his child settling in the UK.

One bit of good news is your wife is entitled to a UK passport immediately from whay you have said.

He has agreed for his daughter to come live with us in the UK already. I suppose i need this in writing correct?

Also what do you mean

One bit of good news is your wife is entitled to a UK passport immediately from whay you have said.

I know if she goes for the Life in the UK test she can then apply but at the moment a British passport is the least of our worries.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

If the parents' marriage/civil partnership has been dissolved, one of the parents must have been awarded legal custody, which includes assumption of responsibility for the child. (You should take care to ensure that the issue of a settlement entry clearance to the child will not contravene the terms of the custody order). Surely my wife has sole custody as they were never married.

Are the parents married / in a civil partnership? No

If the parent migrated to the UK:

how long has the parent been separated from the child ? 3 Years

what were the arrangements for the care of the child before and after the parent migrated ?She had no say as he took her

what has been/what is the parent's relationship with the child? She had not seen her for 3 years. But speaks to her on the phone and has requested photos.

By whom, and in what proportions, is the cost of the child's maintenance borne? My wife sends money so her daughter can eat and has clothes. He works when he wants to work so therfore can not really support his daughter.

Who takes the important decisions about the child's upbringing, for example where the child lives, the choice of school, religious practice etc? She had no say as he took her

I note 3 years is a long time to leave a child without a visit.

You must show support both financial and also show you make decisions in the childs everyday life etc.

You must also prove he has taken her without permission if it comes to the crunch did you seek legal advice to stop this ?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

He has agreed for his daughter to come live with us in the UK already. I suppose i need this in writing correct ?

Yes.

[Burbonizer]

We have not been back to Thailand in 3 years. Trying to get her visa settled her.

Also he took her with out asking. My wife was living in Pattaya and her daughter was at her parents in Korat. She was sending money everytime she got paid. One day he turned up and took her and went to Krabi. My wife screamed and shouted at him and he said don't come and see her unless you have 20,000 baht. My wife spoke to me and i said fine i will pay it. He then said no actually i want 1 million. My wife said we could not get that money. So he said don't ever come to see her again. If you do i will kill you.

My wife was extremely angry with this. She could not go to the police as they want you to sort it out. She could not got to court as she couldn't afford the fees.

To this day he has stook by his word and never let my wife see her. Until the other day when she was told that he has agreed for my wife to have her back as he can not afford to take care of her.

It was December last year when she first got a look at what her daughter looked like from photos that they agreed to send. My wife has had her daughter basically kidnapped. It is only now that he has agreed to all of this that we are looking into getting her back. Before she was too scared to do anything in fear of her daughter. She did not know what he would do.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Try to stick to the facts with the application and don't go down the route of he/she said etc. The ECO will be looking for you to satisfy the rules however ensure you put together a well prepared application. My wife's daughter has settled in the UK we had various issues and managed to resolve these and all concerned are happy.

I wish you both good luck and the correct outcome is achieved for all concerned.

[Burbonizer]

I need to know if this is even possible.

My wife has just tried to call her daughter and he answered the call.

He told her not to call and that she is not having her back. He has also told her daughter that her mom is dead.

This guy is really starting to p*** me off. He sounds like a right loon. If we turn up with the police to get her by law he has to give her to us. But how do i get her out of Thailand with out him giving permission?

[Mario2008]

I need to know if this is even possible.

My wife has just tried to call her daughter and he answered the call.

He told her not to call and that she is not having her back. He has also told her daughter that her mom is dead.

This guy is really starting to p*** me off. He sounds like a right loon. If we turn up with the police to get her by law he has to give her to us. But how do i get her out of Thailand with out him giving permission?

His permission? As far as the law is concerned he is nobody. Legaly he isn't the father of the child and the mother has sole costudy. The only concern is the UK-border agency.

The father can take legal action to be recognised as the father, but that will take time and money.

Look here: http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaici...l%20code%20.pdf

section 1546 and folowing, page 16, give the rules for legitimising a child when the parents are not married.

section 1567 page 19 gives the authorithy of the person who has costudy over a child.

[Burbonizer]

So we could go over there and with the aid (backup) of police could take her daughter from him.

Also what Visa form do i have to fill out to make all this possible?

[Mario2008]

Yes, she can just take her daugther. Would be wise to have a document confirming she has sole costudy to show to the police.

Don't know about the visa part.

[7by7]

Although Thai law may not legally recognise the father, I have a feeling that the UK might; therefore I would recommend getting some form of sole custody document.

The biggest difficulty you face, though, is the sole responsibility requirement. Effectively the child has been living with her father for the last three years with very little contact with or input from her mother. On the face of it this means that the sole responsibility requirement is not satisfied.

From Chapter 14 - Settlement entry for children

14.5 - "Sole responsibility"

In order to fulfil the 'sole responsibility' requirement of the Rules, a sponsoring parent must be able to show that he or she has been solely responsible for exercising parental care over the child for a substantial period. This is in contrast to the concept of the ordinary family unit where responsibility for the child's upbringing is shared between both parents.

You will need to be satisfied that the sponsoring parent has consistently supported the child, either by direct personal care or by regular and substantial financial remittances.

If the sponsoring parent and child are separated, the child will normally be expected to have been in the care of that parent's relatives rather than the relatives of the other parent. This means, for example, that an application by a child to join his/her mother in the United Kingdom on the basis of sole responsibility should normally be refused if it transpires that the child has been in the care of his/her paternal relatives and that the father lives nearby and takes an active interest in the child's welfare.

The following factors should be considered in assessing sole responsibility:

If the parents' marriage/civil partnership has been dissolved, one of the parents must have been awarded legal custody, which includes assumption of responsibility for the child. (You should take care to ensure that the issue of a settlement entry clearance to the child will not contravene the terms of the custody order). Annex 1 contains a list of those countries whose custody orders can be recognised as valid in UK.

Does the marriage / civil partnership subsist, but the parents do not live together?

Are the parents married / in a civil partnership?

If the parent migrated to the UK:

how long has the parent been separated from the child ?

what were the arrangements for the care of the child before and after the parent migrated ?

what has been/what is the parent's relationship with the child?

By whom, and in what proportions, is the cost of the child's maintenance borne?

Who takes the important decisions about the child's upbringing, for example where the child lives, the choice of school, religious practice etc?

I appreciate that there are sound reasons for the lack of cantact between mother and daughter, but unfortunately the ECO is not simply going to accept what is, at best, hearsay evidence.

I think that this is a case where competent professional advice and help is needed, and suggest that you contact an OISC advisor.