Norwegian Woman And American Woman Die Of Unknown Causes on Koh Phi Phi

[Valentine]

Rob, do you think it was gas? if so I cannot see how it can come from running water as in the first pic of the canal. H2S can form from decomposing matter but it is heavier than air & has a rotten egg smell in low doses but as the content increases you cannot smell it which is when it is most deadly.

I'm at a loss, like all of you, as to what may have caused this. I was surprised the first time is saw how dirty it was behind Laleena. Who knows what has been dumped down that creek.

My personal opinion was some sort of insecticide. That would attribute to the low acetylcholinesterase found in Jill. And seeing that dirty, nasty canal behind Laleena you can be sure they had some insect problems. Also the half life for insecticides in the body degrade rather fast (depending on the chemical used). Maybe that's why nothing was able to be found. But that's just a possible hypothesis... one of many out there I suppose.

Anyone have any idea what type of insecticides are used on Phi Phi (or made available from Thailand)?

Rob

From another news source we get this story just published about the mystery woman in Phi Phi's Laleena Guesthouse double-death riddle who spoke publicly for the first time saying that the killer was gas. According to the article this has always been the view of Ryan Kells. The travelling companion of the Norwegian woman killed, Karina Refseth, also fell sick from the same cause, as did Ryan. Refseth narrowly survived after emergency care.

[grumpyoldman]

Rob, do you think it was gas? if so I cannot see how it can come from running water as in the first pic of the canal. H2S can form from decomposing matter but it is heavier than air & has a rotten egg smell in low doses but as the content increases you cannot smell it which is when it is most deadly.

I'm at a loss, like all of you, as to what may have caused this. I was surprised the first time is saw how dirty it was behind Laleena. Who knows what has been dumped down that creek.

My personal opinion was some sort of insecticide. That would attribute to the low acetylcholinesterase found in Jill. And seeing that dirty, nasty canal behind Laleena you can be sure they had some insect problems. Also the half life for insecticides in the body degrade rather fast (depending on the chemical used). Maybe that's why nothing was able to be found. But that's just a possible hypothesis... one of many out there I suppose.

Anyone have any idea what type of insecticides are used on Phi Phi (or made available from Thailand)?

Rob

I was in Phi Phi Don Village in November just up from Lalleena and there had not been a lot of rain and the smell coming out of that canal was horrendous. I kept my windows closed in my room.

For sure it was gasses from this that caused the deaths. I was thinking maybe they were trying to treat the water with a chemical and it mixed with cleaning solvents in the water to create the poisonous gas. But after having been right there, there is no doubt in my mind that it was poisonous fumes from this canal that killed those ladies.

RIP

[churchill]

Surviving Phi Phi Tourist Speaks Out

Today 7 months after the deadly incident on Phi Phi investigators still haven’t found an explanation for what killed Norwegian Julie Bergheim 22 and Seattle-resident Jill St. Onge, 27.

What was intended a holiday in paradise turned fatal when Julie Bergheim and St. Onge died shortly after having experienced breathing-difficulties and terrible stomach pains at their conjoining Laleena guesthouse-rooms.

According to the Thai authorities both women were transported to the hospital on Krabi but nothing could be done to save their lives.

Julie Bergheim's friend Karina Refseth, with whom she was visiting the island, also fell ill but narrowly survived and was sent to recover in a Phuket hospital.

St. Onge and her fiancé occupied a room on the ground floor of the guesthouse right next to the room of the two Norwegian girls, but the couples never met before the two women died in a similar, horrible fashion.

St. Onge’s fiancé, who also fell ill but survived, has always maintained that he noticed a chemical smell when booking in to the room with St. Onge on Saturday in May, 2009.

Now, for the first time since the tragic incident, surviving victim Karina Refseth speaks out. She too believes that the killer was some kind of chemical gas.

There has been many theories to what killed the two women and almost took the lifes of their travelling partners including everything from poisonous food or drinks to poisoning from bacterias.

Two autopsies in Thailand and a third unusual autopsy in Norway have unfortunately failed to produce an official cause of death.

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun...mp;news_id=5895

[balo]

Theres a big story in the Norwegian newspaper VG today , I will try to translate it later but here is the link:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=590997

This is the girl that survived , Karina Refseth . She have finally started talking about the tragedy that happened last year.

She's giving her version of what happened and I will translate it to english soon.

[kennkate]

I find it quite disturbing that the Cause of this tragedy is still not known. Also that the Cremation of Jill took place before cause of Death was Known.

Was this at the request of her relatives? If this is the case then I fully understand

If this matter remains unsolved then it should be a concern for anyone who contemplates a stay there.

If this remains unsolved it is a very sad state of affairs. I was pleased to see it as not gone away ( Brushed under the carpet)

[balo]

This is the translation from google and edited ,most of it should be readable.

Karina Refseth (21) survived the nightmare in Thailand. Now she demands to know what happened to her friend Julie Bergheim that cost her life.

'I am very disappointed with both Norwegian and Thai police. It would have helped a lot to myself and Julie's family if they could stop thinking about what had really happened'. She is still struggling with her thoughts after the drama in the small guest house Laleena in the holiday paradise of Phi Phi 3rd of May last year.

The two young women, Bergheim and American Jill St. Onge (27), died within a few hours under very mysterious circumstances in their own hotel rooms.

Strange smell

Karina Refseth and the American woman's fiancé, Ryan Kells, was also sick, but survived. The American pair were in the room next door to the Norwegian girls.

- The third night when we got home that evening I felt a kind of a strange smell in the room, but we thought nothing more of it, "she explains.

Refseth fear that the Thai police are more concerned about the reputation of the tourist industry than to put someone responsible for the tragedy.

- I certainly do not feel that the police down there have taken this seriously. I am sure that we were exposed to a kind of gas, and I think Julie died of this gas' .

She has decided to tell her dramatic story, hoping to get the Norwegian authorities to respond.

Refseth met Julie Bergheim from Drammen, when they studied hotel management in Australia.

Over the next year and a half, they were very close friends.

After the study was over, they would travel 2.5 months together. They had three weeks left of their holiday in Thailand and would end the trip with two weeks in Dubai before heading back to Norway.

- Julie was an adventurous person. She was full of energy and had a great sense of humour and a mood which rubbed off on others. She was a girl with strong opinions and it was exciting and educational to be with her "says Karina.

Very ill.

- We spent a couple of weeks in Thailand before we moved into Laleena Guest House last May. First we checked into a guesthouse without air conditioning, but by chance we found this other guest house. It was so hot that we decided to move in there, the price was quite low despite the fact that it had air conditioning '.

At two in the morning ,Sunday 3rd of May, the girls came back to the room after they been out for a dinner and enjoyed themselves. During the morning hours, both were so sick that they had to stay in the room. - We were throwing up all the time. It was like losing all energy in your body, and we could barely move. Instead, we were just lying in bed'.

They knew nothing about the tragedy that took place in the next room. At 8.30 Jill St. Onge died. Even though her fiancé had managed to raise the alarm that something was wrong, no one alerted the other guests .

Refseth and Bergheim was found by the staff at 9.00 in the evening.

- We had not paid for the rooms, so they came looking for us. I can remember that we told them we needed a doctor'.

She remember very little of the last hours inside the room, but remember that her friend spoke with her mum in Drammen.

- But then she got so ill that she was not able to speak'

The two Norwegian girls was taken to the local hospital.

- I could not think in the hospital, I was very scared. During the night they would carry us over to a larger hospital in Phuket. I saw that the light was turned off in Julie's room. They told me that she was sleeping and I believed them. At first I refused to move , I was so sick that I couldnt sit for one hour in the boat, but eventually I gave up,'

- I asked for Julie several times, but they said she was sleeping and she would arrive later. I was angry because nobody told me anything. First, the next day, after I had arrived to Phuket, I learned that Julie had died. It was mom who called and told me'

Still it's hard for her to talk about Phi Phi today.

- No one knew what had happened. First, it was speculated that someone put something in our drink. So they told us it had something to do with food poisoning. But we never shared anything with the American couple . It was just nonsense, "says Karina

------------------------------------------------

Edited January 21, 2010 by balo

[Valentine]

It was just nonsense, "says Karina.

I think that says it all regarding the whitewash investigation by the local authorities.

[Briggsy]

It was just nonsense, "says Karina.

I think that says it all regarding the whitewash investigation by the local authorities.

Hear hear, I second that.

Somebody will know. Somebody dumped a load of chemicals in the canal or sprayed the area to kill the mozzies or get rid of a load of old insecticide. But we will never know now.

[brahmburgers]

It's good that Karina is speaking up, though too bad it wasn't months ago. Either way, the Thai authorities will pay it no mind, similar to when a farang complains about something amiss at a store (being shortchanged, for example) - the Thai manager will appear to listen, then be relieved when you're done with your complaint and turning to leave the premises. Nothing will come of it.

The two survivors each talk of toxic gas - yet to Thai investigators they may as well be talking about flying turtles - it has no bearing. The only thing that matters to the authorities is that tourism is not adversely affected. Everything else is a non-issue or, at most, something to get hushed up.

[RickBradford]

What kind of chemical makes you sick so slowly? i.e they came back to their room at 2am, but were not found by hotel staff until 9pm, and both girls were still alive, though extremely ill.

The only one I can think of, which continues to destroy the body after a brief exposure, is paraquat.

Paraquat is one of the most widely used herbicides, and held the largest share of the global herbicide market until recently overtaken by glyphosate. Paraquat is sold in about 130 countries for use on large and small farms, plantations and estates and in non-agricultural weed control. It is a quick acting, non-selective herbicide, which destroys green plant tissue on contact and by translocation within the plant.

Paraquat is highly toxic to animals and has serious and irreversible delayed effects if absorbed. As little as one teaspoonful of the active ingredient is fatal. Death occurs up to 30 days after ingestion.

But that has to be ruled out, I guess, as an autopsy would have shown serious lung damage.

[Briggsy]

The autopsy on Jill St Onge showed complete lung damage, I believe.

[balo]

Another story from the Norwegian newspaper VG today , and this time its Julie Bergheims mom coming forward to tell her story.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=591187

Ina Thoresen (52) will have no peace in her mind until she get to know the truth about her daughter Julie Bergheim who died under mysterious circumstances in the paradise resort of Phi Phi.

Had this happened in Norway, the investigators would not rest until the case has been solved. It is strange that they have not done more to uncover how two healthy, young people could die in their own hotel rooms, and two others become severely ill, " says Ina .

Sunday 3^rd of May last year, she experienced every parent's nightmare. Her daughter, Julie (22) and travel friend Karina Refseth (21) were suddenly ill during a vacation on the other side of the globe.

In Drammen, Norway, Ina felt helpless after she had been talking with her daughter on the phone.

- On Sunday I had a strange feeling that something was wrong, so I called Julie. She said that both she and Karina was so ill that they could not move. I asked her to contact a doctor, but she only told me she was not able to talk anymore. Then she hang up, "

Ina Thoresen was so upset that she spent the rest of the day to notify family members and try to find the phone number to Laleena Guest House, where she knew the two Norwegian girls lived.

- I tried to call information , but the number to the guest house did not exist . My brother's daughter, who always had a close relationship with Julie, called her and asked them to get help. Julie said they were going to do it, but they were to sick at that point, Thoresen explains.

The two Norwegian girls were found by the staff at 9 in the evening, allegedly because they had not paid for another night at the guest house.

For Julie it was too late. She died at 01.30 in the small hospital on the island. So did an American woman who lived at the same place. Julies mom home in Norway didnt know that the worst had happened , but she was so upset that she couldnt sleep much that night.

- I woke up around 5 in the morning to call the Norwegian embassy in Bangkok. When I was told that Julie was dead I almost fainted in the kitchen, "she says.

She has now asked for legal assistance to try to get the Norwegian police and the Norwegian authorities to do more to find out what really happened to her daughter.

- This case has been given a high priority at the Embassy in Bangkok since the incident occurred, and its been a close dialogue between the relatives, thai authorities and Norwegian police.

- We have been working with this case for several hours on all levels, " the advisor of the Foreign Ministry, Bjorn Svenungsen told VG.

- We will continue to follow this case. Police reports we have received from the Thai police are continuously forwarded to the Norwegian investigators.

'They are now awaiting test results from the cleaning-solution that was used in the guest house where the girls stayed. '

Edited January 22, 2010 by balo

[katana]

Don't know if it was mentioned before, but U-traps are not fitted as standard in Thailand and so it's possible vapours from the drains or whatever had been discarded there came back into the rooms with fatal consequences.

[Nam Plah]

One Year Later.

No closure.

RIP

[brahmburgers]

Don't know if it was mentioned before, but U-traps are not fitted as standard in Thailand and so it's possible vapours from the drains or whatever had been discarded there came back into the rooms with fatal consequences.

It was mentioned here (by me and others), but this is just a bunch of farang writing under assumed names, so we don't matter in Thailand. We keep getting reminded that Thailand is for Thais, and at best, farang are just visitors who's value is predicated on how much we spend.

But back on topic, the issue of U or P-traps (whose purpose is to keep vapors/smells from coming in to the living space) is just one of several important issues of this case that Thai investigators either didn't think to investigate, or botched, or dismissed as being 'mai pen rai.'

The public were told multiple times, during the early days of the investigation that 'results of the investigation' would be made public. Yet, those of us familiar with how badly Thai investigators do their business knew that wouldn't happen. I doubt even family members of the victims were kept abreast of developments in any meaningful way. Every subsequent aspects of the investigation of the tragic deaths at Laleena g.h. (forensic, investigation, reporting) have been poor quality. All Thai authorities involved should quit their professions in shame, including the provincial governor who insisted it must have been some bad fish the girls ate (they didn't eat any fish that night).

Sincere condolences to the families of the victims.

[wintermute]

Theres a big story in the Norwegian newspaper VG today , I will try to translate it later but here is the link:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=590997

This is the girl that survived , Karina Refseth . She have finally started talking about the tragedy that happened last year.

She's giving her version of what happened and I will translate it to english soon.

So it took her 1+ year to start speaking up about this? Too little too late. It's over and done with as far as the Thai authorities and public are concerned.

[Nam Plah]

http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phi-phis-tour...g-riddle-12446/

[Buchholz]

US backing for parents' website on Thai danger

A website set up last week by the parents of New Zealander Sarah Carter to warn others of the dangers of visiting Thailand has received the support a United States man whose fiancee also died there. Richard Carter said the website thailandtraveltragedies.com was created out of exasperation at what he sees as a cover-up by Thai officials over his daughter's death on February 6.

Sarah Carter, 23, fell ill while staying at the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai and died of myocarditis - heart inflammation - two days later. Six other people died in similar circumstances over six weeks. News of the deaths spread to the family of Seattle resident Ryan Kells, whose fiancee was one of two women who died suddenly after staying in adjoining rooms in a hotel on Thailand's Phi Phi island in 2009.

Mr Kells said that almost two years after his partner Jill St Onge, 27, and Norwegian woman Julie Bergheim died, their deaths remained a mystery. The 32-year-old said he felt sick on hearing of the Chiang Mai deaths, and could relate to the frustration the Carters felt at the handling of the investigation. The couple had been engaged for 21 days and were nearing the end of three months of backpacking in Southeast Asia when Ms St Onge and Ms Bergheim died of heart and lung failure.

Continues:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10720006&ref=rss

New Zealand Herald - April 18, 2011

[on-on]

US backing for parents' website on Thai danger

A website set up last week by the parents of New Zealander Sarah Carter to warn others of the dangers of visiting Thailand has received the support a United States man whose fiancee also died there. Richard Carter said the website thailandtraveltragedies.com was created out of exasperation at what he sees as a cover-up by Thai officials over his daughter's death on February 6.

If they actually did this right and got some SEO people involved they could have a real effect, but as it stands they probably won't, unfortunately (no one searches 'thailand travel tragedies' while a few search 'thailand tourist deaths' for example). It is the right idea, though. If you can't force direct action by the governments involved or public officials, then the best and only avenue left is public shame. The conundrum is that unless you manage to get some traction in PR terms you're just spinning your wheels. I wish them all the best of luck, because loss of income and public shame are about the only two things that will elicit a response and that will only come with enough negative PR. That train of negative PR has certainly been building over the last few years and at this rate something is going to cause it to reach a tipping point in the not-too-distant future.

Edited April 18, 2011 by on-on

[CRUNCHER]

Chiang Mai hotel deaths have been linked to a bed bug spray. Any similarity here I wonder?

[lovetotravel]

Chiang Mai hotel deaths have been linked to a bed bug spray. Any similarity here I wonder?

An interesting theory for sure.