A Military Out Of Control

[dee123]

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...amp;lmitstart=1 This article describes how Abhisits goverment avoids prosecuting military figures.

[Oberkommando]

I wonder if they will discover dead bodies in those containers found in the sea off Sattahip?

Could well be further evidence of atrocities committed by the Thai military.

[robblok]

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...amp;lmitstart=1 This article describes how Abhisits goverment avoids prosecuting military figures.

Did we read different articles ? This article states that Taksin and the Abhsit goverment avoided prosecuting the military. To turn this against Abhsit is a bit crazy because most of the problems are from before his time.

I just think that the military is almost untouchable no mater who is in charge of the goverment

[Sabum]

Everyone needs to read up on Thai history. You will quickly see the truth, and that is that the military has always controlled the country since the end of the total monarchy in 1932. Of course they cant be prosecuted, they are in charge.

[dee123]

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...amp;lmitstart=1 This article describes how Abhisits goverment avoids prosecuting military figures.

Did we read different articles ? This article states that Taksin and the Abhsit goverment avoided prosecuting the military. To turn this against Abhsit is a bit crazy because most of the problems are from before his time.

I just think that the military is almost untouchable no mater who is in charge of the goverment

Agreed Thaksin and his goverment failed to bring to justice any military.Thaksin is now totally discredited as a leader ,we know that.Now Abhisit is busy chasing Mr T.Unfortuneately Abhisit is working with the very same military who carried out Mr T''s dirty work to track him down.The Article says that despite 1 high ranking officer being sucessfully prosecuted the case now goes to a "military tribunal" and we all know what is going to happen there, THEY MUST THINK WE ARE ALL STUPID!!

Edited May 10, 2009 by dee123

[Maizefarmer]

It's intersting that that article makes specific referance to the anti-communist killings of the 70's (the so called "Red Barrel" killings).

The point should not be missed - that, the guys who ran the anti-communist killings in the 70's are the power behind the Yellow Shirts - and the very same group of guys who put Abhasit in the PM's seat, and to who he now answers!

Yes ... little has changed (and on their graves will they see Thaksin back in power!)

[Plus]

the guys who ran the anti-communist killings in the 70's are the power behind the Yellow Shirts - and the very same group of guys who put Abhasit in the PM's seat

Care to substantiate your allegations?

How about Surayud, for example, who Thaksin named as a coup mastermind and who was appointed the PM by the junta? His father was a communist killed in those battles.

I think you really need to prove your point here.

[Plus]

Oh, and article itself is four months old and has been discussed elsewhere. What's the purpose of reviving it?

[dee123]

Oh, and article itself is four months old and has been discussed elsewhere. What's the purpose of reviving it?

To find out up to date info on the "prosecutions"

[Maizefarmer]

the guys who ran the anti-communist killings in the 70's are the power behind the Yellow Shirts - and the very same group of guys who put Abhasit in the PM's seat

Care to substantiate your allegations?

How about Surayud, for example, who Thaksin named as a coup mastermind and who was appointed the PM by the junta? His father was a communist killed in those battles.

I think you really need to prove your point here.

Allegation - its no allegation, Plus: its a cast iron fact - I have named some of those individuals behind the Yellow shirt power base in earlier contributions to the forum, and have highlighted their roles now, versus the roles they have played in the past in Thai politics - specifically making reference to the roles (bloody roles) they played in the anti-communist days of the 70's.

By all means do a search - the notes you are looking for are within the last the last 6months, or year at most.

[F1fanatic]

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...amp;lmitstart=1 This article describes how Abhisits goverment avoids prosecuting military figures.

THEY MUST THINK WE ARE ALL STUPID!!

Surely that goes without saying!

[Plus]

By all means do a search - the notes you are looking for are within the last the last 6months, or year at most.

What am I supposed to be looking for? Simplpy dig through 2,000+ of your posts?

What holds you from naming those individuals here?

You alleged something, it's YOUR responsibility to supply proof, not mine.

[Maizefarmer]

By all means do a search - the notes you are looking for are within the last the last 6months, or year at most.

What am I supposed to be looking for? Simplpy dig through 2,000+ of your posts?

What holds you from naming those individuals here?

You alleged something, it's YOUR responsibility to supply proof, not mine.

No - not all 2000 - as I said, it's within the last 6months or so - but I'll help you: go do some reading up on Chamlong Srimuang and Pallop Pinmanee - to name just 2 of the head honcho's in PAD, who have played prominent roles in major Thai political events over the last few decades.

In additon to the 1970's killings, Pallop was was one of the leaders in the 92' uprising, and also was behind the Krue Se killing's.

Srimuang - equal amount of blood of his hands.

While there is lot on the web in English about these gusy and the roles they play behind the scenes in PAD, if you can read Thai, there is considrably more detail that provides a much better view of just who these guys (and a few others) are, how they operate, and their politicals philosophies. Understand them and what they stand for, and you get to the heart of PAD and where it stands to take Thailand (potentialy) over the long term.

Read up on Thai social/political commentry.

[Plus]

Panlop once wanted to assume PAD leadership if Sondhi and co were arrested. It didn't happen, no one wanted him. Instead he cozied up to Thaksin and taken the red side.

Chamlong's "blood" needs to be substantiated. One thing to remember - it was before he seriously took to Buddhiism and renounced violence, he subsequently made a name for himself as Bangkok Governor and a leader of Phalang Dharma party who led anti-military uprising in 1992.

You said:

"the guys who ran the anti-communist killings in the 70's are the power behind the Yellow Shirts - and the very same group of guys who put Abhasit in the PM's seat, and to who he now answers!"

Abhisit doesn't answer to Chamlong or Panlop and they didn't put him in power. Do you have any other "guys"?

[Maizefarmer]

Plus

Pallop (not Panlop - a minor point, my spelling is atrocius at best at times)

Remember the "Worm in the Salt" writeup - see comedy sketch attached below - taken from a late March Matichon edition - the last weekend edition if I recall correctly, but could be wrong on the exact date.

..... and you are trying to tell me Pallop is a Red Shirt!

Believe me - Pallop has a lot to say about what all thought was his "coziness" to Mr T - that is going to come out over the next few months.

If Pallop is Red (to you) - then your understanding and grasp of the issues are upside down.

(One thing I try to do on this forum is not knock people (even when they are blatently incorrect and or have their facts wrong), but try and stear the topic round so the subject matter can be continued - constructively, so all can learn from it. Sometimes that can be mighty difficult!)

Edited May 10, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[Scott]

Certainly a lot of bad and untouchable elements in the military. Until they are brought under control, the country will not progress politically.

[dee123]

<br />Certainly a lot of bad and untouchable elements in the military. Until they are brought under control, the country will not progress politically.<br />

<br /><br /><br /> Agree totally Scott .I would imaginen 99% of Thaivisa readers would also agree.The other 1% will just continue "the blame game"

[Plus]

Maizefarmer, perhaps you missed Panlop's about turn - after a trip to Hong Kong last year he has become Thaksin's ally, he came back full of confidence in Thaksin and even wanted to restore "law and order" around govt house occupied by PAD at that time. In last days of PPP government there was even talk about re-appointing Panlop as a head of ISOC.

Thaksin's latest allegations against Prem, Surayud and Chanchai were all based on Panlop's accounts.

Re. spelling - I believe Pallop is how it spelled correctly if you transliterate from Thai to English, however it doesn't sound like that at all - same as Cholburi and Chonburi. The former is the correct spelling, the latter correct pronunciation.

Still, you said he was one of the guys who installed Abhisit to power and one of the guys Abhisit answers to. That's just nonsense.

If you want to see ideological connection between anti-communist drive in 70 and present day, why don't you look at Samak and Chalerm - two political leaders of the red party. Samak made his name during the crackdown on students and was rewarded with his first ministerial position (grade A Interior Ministry). Last year he denied that Thamassat tragedy had ever happened. And Chalerm was right there, in the police lines that stood and watched raging mobs lynching students, hanging them from the trees around Sanam Luang and burning them. Now he also denies anything had happend on that day, "one gun accidentally went off", I remember him saying.

These two were handpicked by Thaksin to lead PPP and later PTP, and ex-communists like Surapong and Chaturon had to accept their leadership, so much for their ideals.

Not to mention that the red movement was re-created with the specific goal to counteract PAD dominance of the street politics, much like scout movements of the 70s - drawing hordes of brainwashed villagers to fight Bangkokians who thought they were smarter than the rest of the country. The only difference that in those days Bangkokians were accused of being disloyal to the monarchy and now they are accused of being disloyal to democracy.

[HagenvonTronje]

Panlop once wanted to assume PAD leadership if Sondhi and co were arrested. It didn't happen, no one wanted him. Instead he cozied up to Thaksin and taken the red side.

...

FLASHBACK into the archive

PAD news on the TOC channel

"UPDATE : 5 October 2008

Former Advisor to ISOC Replaces Chamlong as PAD Security Strategist

Former advisor to the Internal Security Operations Command Pallop Pinmanee has announced he'll replace PAD leader as the group's security strategist.

General Pallop has made it clear that unlike Chamlong, he's more of a warrior and unlikely to only adopt defensive strategy." (source: click here)

remember, Chamlong lets himself get arrested, to stay clean, Pallp take over and two days later we had the 7.10.

i think the Pallop, Panlop spelling is mainly between The Nation and Bangkok Post, whereby the Nation sometimes offered more than one variation to spell a thai name with latin letters. sometimes even in the same article. Bangkok Post seems to me to be more correct with the spelling of thai names and follows transliterations rules, The Nation, in blitz speed breaking news, 'plays by ear'.

[HagenvonTronje]

Not to mention that the red movement was re-created with the specific goal to counteract PAD dominance of the street politics, much like scout movements of the 70s - drawing hordes of brainwashed villagers to fight Bangkokians who thought they were smarter than the rest of the country. The only difference that in those days Bangkokians were accused of being disloyal to the monarchy and now they are accused of being disloyal to democracy.

why don't look at the continuity? and there you have your reason why this commie blame came up so quick during songkran.

Red Shirts being brutally beaten by a mob

Just an example of gratitude for staging "people revolution".

Pravit of the Nation delivered the quote of his career describing that day - "not everybody loves reds".

Samak could not do anyway other, than talk that way about the thammasat massacre. Samak is loyal.

your information about Samak maybe right, but they are probably from a book that you can not buy in book shops in thailand. if you an thai academic and publish a book and in a small foot note refers to that other book, that book that you can not buy in book shops in thailand, then it's very likely that your book will be too one of these books that you can not buy in thailand.

and the thai academic, who "outed" Samak, brought samaks past to the public, is now a political refugee of the Abhisit and Dem's doctrine. in 2003 this academic was one of the only voices talked about the death in the war on drug.

edit: added last paragraph.

Edited May 10, 2009 by HagenvonTronje

[Maizefarmer]

Maizefarmer, perhaps you missed Panlop's about turn - after a trip to Hong Kong last year he has become Thaksin's ally, he came back full of confidence in Thaksin and even wanted to restore "law and order" around govt house occupied by PAD at that time. In last days of PPP government there was even talk about re-appointing Panlop as a head of ISOC.

Thaksin's latest allegations against Prem, Surayud and Chanchai were all based on Panlop's accounts.

Re. spelling - I believe Pallop is how it spelled correctly if you transliterate from Thai to English, however it doesn't sound like that at all - same as Cholburi and Chonburi. The former is the correct spelling, the latter correct pronunciation.

Still, you said he was one of the guys who installed Abhisit to power and one of the guys Abhisit answers to. That's just nonsense.

If you want to see ideological connection between anti-communist drive in 70 and present day, why don't you look at Samak and Chalerm - two political leaders of the red party. Samak made his name during the crackdown on students and was rewarded with his first ministerial position (grade A Interior Ministry). Last year he denied that Thamassat tragedy had ever happened. And Chalerm was right there, in the police lines that stood and watched raging mobs lynching students, hanging them from the trees around Sanam Luang and burning them. Now he also denies anything had happend on that day, "one gun accidentally went off", I remember him saying.

These two were handpicked by Thaksin to lead PPP and later PTP, and ex-communists like Surapong and Chaturon had to accept their leadership, so much for their ideals.

Not to mention that the red movement was re-created with the specific goal to counteract PAD dominance of the street politics, much like scout movements of the 70s - drawing hordes of brainwashed villagers to fight Bangkokians who thought they were smarter than the rest of the country. The only difference that in those days Bangkokians were accused of being disloyal to the monarchy and now they are accused of being disloyal to democracy.

About turn - Plus, what about turn - I'm talking about what happened within the last couple months - not last year!

Observation re spelling: spot on - well noted, indeed you are correct rgards N's and L's and how they are used.

Okay - lest see if we can move this forward constructively:

I thought this was about the Yellow Shirts ( my comment was not in respect of the Red's) - but for what it worth, correct - Samak and Chalerm can also to be included in the same catagory (except on the other side of the fence).

Hang on a sec: selectively quoting bits and pieces from various articles is quickly going to move this matter onto something different - but back to my original statement, which you challeneged me on, re: Abhasit - the guys' a puppet ....... and the guys that helped him into power (put him in power - created the political circumstances that resulted him been chosen ... whatever words one wishes to choose to define it) - are Yellow shirts and old hands who have blood on their hands (and as you raise it - yes - they are not the only ones - there is indeed senior Red Shirt leadership who's past, and political affiliations at the time, the record shows where equal participants. The fact that they now stand on the other side of the fence is a moot point in the context of the Yellow shirt leadership).

And thats where I am coming from - this guy is not his own man - if they get tied of him, or he doesn't tow the line as they want it, they will throw him out. No secret about this, Plus - I can scan in and line up a dozen plus prints and political commentations across the range of Thai publications that have made theis comment since the guy came to power - and the names that come up time and time again are Panlop/Pallop and Srimuang (amongst others)

My statement is no more than that, and by contrast I have read and seen very little (in the Thai or English media) in this part of the world that indicates Abhasit is a "free man" in so far as he doesn't have behind the scene movers who he needs to satisfy.

I stand by what I said - the argument comes in, in who one wants to accept as been the force(s) behind the Yellow Shirt political movement.

[Plus]

About turn - Plus, what about turn

This about turn:

From this:

Panlop to step in if Chamlong arrested

August 29, 2008

Panlop told me he was ready to be my replacement if police arrest me and other PAD leaders, Chamlong said at the rally inside the Government House compound.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...;keyword=panlop

To this:

"Pallop Pinmanee, a former deputy director of the Internal Security Operations Command, is another of Thaksin's latest allies. Pallop, who flew to meet him in Hong Kong last week, insisted Thaksin is 100 per cent loyal to His Majesty the King. Pallop was expected to be appointed as deputy director of the new ISOC to oversee the PAD protest. Pallop's move raised many questions, as he was PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang's classmate. Pallop had been expected to take over from the PAD leaders if they were jailed. Pallop was seen talking with Chamlong at Government House and declared he would be the next PAD leader. However there was a report that their relationship had turned sour. That's maybe the reason why Pallop switched sides."

November 21, 2008

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30089010

Speculations about Panlops rewards:

"Democrat Party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban said he believed if Pallop was to be appointed to ISOC, it was because he had flown to meet former prime minister Thaksin recently, and only Thaksin had the final say in such important appointments which are usually organised at Government House.

Maj General Chamlong Srimuang, a PAD leader, said his group would only sit at the negotiating table with the government, not the ISOC. He also refused to comment about the press statement that Pollop would take up the post of ISOC assistant director. Pollop said Cabinet would decide on the matter this week."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30088680

Panlop's plans at that time:

"Retired Army General Pallop Pinmanee wants to get back in action. He wants to be in the lineup of the Internal Security Operation Commander (Isoc) so he can restore law and order around Bangkok, and in particular to Government House, which has been occupied by the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy since August. That's what he says he will do."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30088750

And, finally, last time Panlop's name was in the news - when Thaksin relied on him as his witness.

"Thaksin told his supporters that said Gen Pallop Pinmanee former deputy director-general of the Internal Security Operations Command told him during his recent visit in China that Surayud summoned him for a meeting at a house on Sukhumvit Road and two privy councillors accused Thaksin of not being loyal to the monarchy."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30098582

>>>>>>

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that Abhisit answers to Panlop.

As for Chamlong - what part did he play in forming Democrat lef coaltion? Even reds don't mention his involvement. How did you come to the conlcusion that Abhisit answers to him?

[dee123]

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...amp;lmitstart=1 This article describes how Abhisits goverment avoids prosecuting military figures.

More astonishing judgements under Abhisit. http://www.prachatai.com and up to date infomation proving Military control of the Thai "justice" system.

Edited May 30, 2009 by dee123

[plachon]

Maizefarmer, perhaps you missed Panlop's about turn - after a trip to Hong Kong last year he has become Thaksin's ally, he came back full of confidence in Thaksin and even wanted to restore "law and order" around govt house occupied by PAD at that time. In last days of PPP government there was even talk about re-appointing Panlop as a head of ISOC.

Thaksin's latest allegations against Prem, Surayud and Chanchai were all based on Panlop's accounts.

Re. spelling - I believe Pallop is how it spelled correctly if you transliterate from Thai to English, however it doesn't sound like that at all - same as Cholburi and Chonburi. The former is the correct spelling, the latter correct pronunciation.

Still, you said he was one of the guys who installed Abhisit to power and one of the guys Abhisit answers to. That's just nonsense.

If you want to see ideological connection between anti-communist drive in 70 and present day, why don't you look at Samak and Chalerm - two political leaders of the red party. Samak made his name during the crackdown on students and was rewarded with his first ministerial position (grade A Interior Ministry). Last year he denied that Thamassat tragedy had ever happened. And Chalerm was right there, in the police lines that stood and watched raging mobs lynching students, hanging them from the trees around Sanam Luang and burning them. Now he also denies anything had happend on that day, "one gun accidentally went off", I remember him saying.

These two were handpicked by Thaksin to lead PPP and later PTP, and ex-communists like Surapong and Chaturon had to accept their leadership, so much for their ideals.

Not to mention that the red movement was re-created with the specific goal to counteract PAD dominance of the street politics, much like scout movements of the 70s - drawing hordes of brainwashed villagers to fight Bangkokians who thought they were smarter than the rest of the country. The only difference that in those days Bangkokians were accused of being disloyal to the monarchy and now they are accused of being disloyal to democracy.

About turn - Plus, what about turn - I'm talking about what happened within the last couple months - not last year!

Observation re spelling: spot on - well noted, indeed you are correct rgards N's and L's and how they are used.

Okay - lest see if we can move this forward constructively:

I thought this was about the Yellow Shirts ( my comment was not in respect of the Red's) - but for what it worth, correct - Samak and Chalerm can also to be included in the same catagory (except on the other side of the fence).

Hang on a sec: selectively quoting bits and pieces from various articles is quickly going to move this matter onto something different - but back to my original statement, which you challeneged me on, re: Abhasit - the guys' a puppet ....... and the guys that helped him into power (put him in power - created the political circumstances that resulted him been chosen ... whatever words one wishes to choose to define it) - are Yellow shirts and old hands who have blood on their hands (and as you raise it - yes - they are not the only ones - there is indeed senior Red Shirt leadership who's past, and political affiliations at the time, the record shows where equal participants. The fact that they now stand on the other side of the fence is a moot point in the context of the Yellow shirt leadership).

And thats where I am coming from - this guy is not his own man - if they get tied of him, or he doesn't tow the line as they want it, they will throw him out. No secret about this, Plus - I can scan in and line up a dozen plus prints and political commentations across the range of Thai publications that have made theis comment since the guy came to power - and the names that come up time and time again are Panlop/Pallop and Srimuang (amongst others)

My statement is no more than that, and by contrast I have read and seen very little (in the Thai or English media) in this part of the world that indicates Abhasit is a "free man" in so far as he doesn't have behind the scene movers who he needs to satisfy.

I stand by what I said - the argument comes in, in who one wants to accept as been the force(s) behind the Yellow Shirt political movement.

MF - you are clearly rather confused about the state of Thai politics recently and who is allied with whom. You are quite wrong about Panlop Pinmanee's affiliations and as for Chamlong Srimuang, his distant military past is well behind him, as proven by his seminal role in the Black May events, when he bravely stood up to the worst elements in the Thai military, including the despicable Suchinda Kraprayoon.

Then there is the rest of the PAD leadership - all with strong pro-civil society and political freedom credentials. hel_l, Pipob Thongchai was ex-CPT and leader of the Committee for Democratic Advocacy and has consistently opposed military rule throughout his life. Ditto Somkiet Pongpaibun (academic and pro-poor / civil rights activist from Khorat) and Somska Kosaisuk (labour activist). To think that these people are somehow puppet masters of Abhisit or support military rule in Thailand is pure fantasy on your part.

Plus put you right - take it or leave it, unless you can come up with something more substantial to back up your allegations.

[dee123]

Maizefarmer, perhaps you missed Panlop's about turn - after a trip to Hong Kong last year he has become Thaksin's ally, he came back full of confidence in Thaksin and even wanted to restore "law and order" around govt house occupied by PAD at that time. In last days of PPP government there was even talk about re-appointing Panlop as a head of ISOC.

Thaksin's latest allegations against Prem, Surayud and Chanchai were all based on Panlop's accounts.

Re. spelling - I believe Pallop is how it spelled correctly if you transliterate from Thai to English, however it doesn't sound like that at all - same as Cholburi and Chonburi. The former is the correct spelling, the latter correct pronunciation.

Still, you said he was one of the guys who installed Abhisit to power and one of the guys Abhisit answers to. That's just nonsense.

If you want to see ideological connection between anti-communist drive in 70 and present day, why don't you look at Samak and Chalerm - two political leaders of the red party. Samak made his name during the crackdown on students and was rewarded with his first ministerial position (grade A Interior Ministry). Last year he denied that Thamassat tragedy had ever happened. And Chalerm was right there, in the police lines that stood and watched raging mobs lynching students, hanging them from the trees around Sanam Luang and burning them. Now he also denies anything had happend on that day, "one gun accidentally went off", I remember him saying.

These two were handpicked by Thaksin to lead PPP and later PTP, and ex-communists like Surapong and Chaturon had to accept their leadership, so much for their ideals.

Not to mention that the red movement was re-created with the specific goal to counteract PAD dominance of the street politics, much like scout movements of the 70s - drawing hordes of brainwashed villagers to fight Bangkokians who thought they were smarter than the rest of the country. The only difference that in those days Bangkokians were accused of being disloyal to the monarchy and now they are accused of being disloyal to democracy.

About turn - Plus, what about turn - I'm talking about what happened within the last couple months - not last year!

Observation re spelling: spot on - well noted, indeed you are correct rgards N's and L's and how they are used.

Okay - lest see if we can move this forward constructively:

I thought this was about the Yellow Shirts ( my comment was not in respect of the Red's) - but for what it worth, correct - Samak and Chalerm can also to be included in the same catagory (except on the other side of the fence).

Hang on a sec: selectively quoting bits and pieces from various articles is quickly going to move this matter onto something different - but back to my original statement, which you challeneged me on, re: Abhasit - the guys' a puppet ....... and the guys that helped him into power (put him in power - created the political circumstances that resulted him been chosen ... whatever words one wishes to choose to define it) - are Yellow shirts and old hands who have blood on their hands (and as you raise it - yes - they are not the only ones - there is indeed senior Red Shirt leadership who's past, and political affiliations at the time, the record shows where equal participants. The fact that they now stand on the other side of the fence is a moot point in the context of the Yellow shirt leadership).

And thats where I am coming from - this guy is not his own man - if they get tied of him, or he doesn't tow the line as they want it, they will throw him out. No secret about this, Plus - I can scan in and line up a dozen plus prints and political commentations across the range of Thai publications that have made theis comment since the guy came to power - and the names that come up time and time again are Panlop/Pallop and Srimuang (amongst others)

My statement is no more than that, and by contrast I have read and seen very little (in the Thai or English media) in this part of the world that indicates Abhasit is a "free man" in so far as he doesn't have behind the scene movers who he needs to satisfy.

I stand by what I said - the argument comes in, in who one wants to accept as been the force(s) behind the Yellow Shirt political movement.

MF - you are clearly rather confused about the state of Thai politics recently and who is allied with whom. You are quite wrong about Panlop Pinmanee's affiliations and as for Chamlong Srimuang, his distant military past is well behind him, as proven by his seminal role in the Black May events, when he bravely stood up to the worst elements in the Thai military, including the despicable Suchinda Kraprayoon.

Then there is the rest of the PAD leadership - all with strong pro-civil society and political freedom credentials. hel_l, Pipob Thongchai was ex-CPT and leader of the Committee for Democratic Advocacy and has consistently opposed military rule throughout his life. Ditto Somkiet Pongpaibun (academic and pro-poor / civil rights activist from Khorat) and Somska Kosaisuk (labour activist). To think that these people are somehow puppet masters of Abhisit or support military rule in Thailand is pure fantasy on your part.

Plus put you right - take it or leave it, unless you can come up with something more substantial to back up your allegations.

"Then there is the rest of the PAD leadership - all with strong pro-civil society freedom credentials" Shame with such credentials they are not demonstrating on the streets to rid the country of corrupt Judicary!

[dee123]

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1267 Here is some more"History" Plus I think you are misunderstanding Maizefarmer.It is clear to me Maizefarmer recognises that most Red Shirt leaders have a terrible history,in fact that is his and my point,which you do not seem to want to grasp.Opportunistic manoeveres,by the same old faces be it PAD or Redshirt leaders.Military control.And NO REAL DEMOCRACY OR TRANSPARENCY IN THAI POLITICS.Please read.

[moe666]

Better dig up some stories about something you can affect.

[dee123]

Better dig up some stories about something you can affect.

Nothing free speech can't achieve!