Thaksin To Be Indicted For Lese Majeste

[chrislarsson]

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

The courts decided, and the government was instaled by democratically elected MPs. Were their backroom deals? Of course, the same as politics everywhere.

Do anybody believe that the seizures of the government house and the airports have not had an impact on the formation of the current government?

[chrislarsson]

Talking of face, why is admin permitting mc2 to use a Thaksin mug shot as their avatar? There would be no LM implication for this forum would there?

LM implication for having a Thaksin avatar ?

please share your great knowledge of the LM law, because I fail to see the connection.

But the avatars of mc2 and Koo82, combined with their constant flow of pro-Thaksin propaganda. seem to me to be in violation of the rule on political lobbying in the Forum Rules:

It's funny that the ones who are claiming to be on the side standing for a free and open society, are the first ones attempting to clamp down on it.

[animatic]

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

The courts decided, and the government was instaled by democratically elected MPs. Were their backroom deals? Of course, the same as politics everywhere.

Do anybody believe that the seizures of the government house and the airports have not had an impact on the formation of the current government?

Impact yes, of course,

but not really one to change the course of events in the Somchai government,

only a few days difference between their inevitable fate and it's originally planned fate.

The question is when that happened was PTP prepared to run a government?

The answer proved to be absolutely not.

Newin saw that writing on the wall and moved to better pickings.

PAD was the barking dog not letting the thief have free run of the hen house.

All politics is horse trading, and getting team to run together moves the wagon,

even if one horse or the other won't last long.

Thaksin gave up on horse trading, and tried intimidation both verbally and on the street

.

His verbal barbs got more and more directed at a place he should never have gone.

He went there, and now has a greater price to pay.

[eggomaniac]

Not sure that this has any particular PRACTICAL purpose ??

Anyone have any views on the strategic thinking here ?

purpose, sense, strategy [Thai politics?] rofl

----------------------

Check out Wikipedia for the list, since 1932, of the several military and democratic rulers. For good, or bad, Thaksin was the only PM to last a full term.

The real governance of Thailand is something we never hear about.

Google 'Thailand CIA drugs' to begin to understand the 'strategies' in force in Thailand.

[peecee]

I like to discuss more on this LM subject. But think again, I better not. It is against the rule in TV, and against the law in Thailand. I don't want to spend my next half life in Bangkok Hilton.

Form the forum rules:

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation and comments of a political nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

So you can discus LM, but keep the royal family out of it! We will moderate this subject very strict.

You must be joking right. How can I discuss LM law without mentioning the royal family?

That is what the rule says. I think I could come up with a crative way of discussing it.

Be aware such comments as yours could also be considered an infraction of the rules for questioning a moderators action.

Hope you keep your Jack Boot's polished, alway's nice to be smartly turned out.

[CWMcMurray]

Journalist, do you think it's Thaksin's place, as a convicted criminal who has fled the country, to either be urging or demanding anything of the King?

Whether legal or not, i just think that making requests in public of His Majesty is inappropriate and disrespectful.

So are you saying that the LM laws make it illegal to ask for the King's help in Public ???

It's also not really fair to ask people's opionion, if voicing their opinions could get them thrown in Jail.

So what you end upgetting on threads like this is a one-way argument where those who would wish to voice an opposing view must remain silent or face being thrown in jail or being deported.

So not much in the way of any real political discussion is even possible.

[rixalex]

Journalist, do you think it's Thaksin's place, as a convicted criminal who has fled the country, to either be urging or demanding anything of the King?

Whether legal or not, i just think that making requests in public of His Majesty is inappropriate and disrespectful.

So are you saying that the LM laws make it illegal to ask for the King's help in Public ???

No i wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that someone who has been convicted of a crime and who flees, refusing to accept the punishment handed down by the courts of the King's land, has no place to be asking favours of anyone, let alone His Majesty. I'm not talking about laws i'm talking about courtesy and respect, something some seem to know little about.

[tig28]

If that is the case then SJ, Plus, amongst others are equally, if not more guilty of political lobbying.

Amen brother ...... Amen.

[Samuian]

Journalist, do you think it's Thaksin's place, as a convicted criminal who has fled the country, to either be urging or demanding anything of the King?

Whether legal or not, i just think that making requests in public of His Majesty is inappropriate and disrespectful.

So are you saying that the LM laws make it illegal to ask for the King's help in Public ???

It's also not really fair to ask people's opionion, if voicing their opinions could get them thrown in Jail.

So what you end upgetting on threads like this is a one-way argument where those who would wish to voice an opposing view must remain silent or face being thrown in jail or being deported.

So not much in the way of any real political discussion is even possible.

Well, I bring another example which will bring some enlightenment in your styel of argument:

In democratic Germany f.E. you have Highways (Autobahn) with no Speed Limits in general, but of xcourse there are Speedlimits as the "recommended speed" is 130 km/h.

So ther is a speed limit, bu it's 03:45 am and NO ONE ELSE on the road,

no traffic at all and the driver goes: Ah, well and hits it,

accelerates and is radar trapped with 236 km/h .....

as a result he loses his license and a hefty fine!

His argument will remain for eternity that it's unfair,

"there was NOBODY, no traffic at all"!

Well that would make law obsolete, would it?

The law is the law, is the law - no matter who, no matter what -

if the defendant is found guilty - he/she IS guilty!

For far too long he and persons in his cabinet have

bend the law al gusto... when ever it pleased them!

Besides: How many times he has been warned NOT to drag the

most honorable citizen and the privy council into this -

nay, he had to go further, testing the grounds of his power -

well he was taught a lesson or two -

I am not so sure yet if has learned something!

This is a non-confrontational society - till long they may have forgiven him,

but he was short of keeping it calm

[Journalist]

^Surely a better Deutshland legal parallel would be that on holocaust denial.

Where you can get thrown into jail for offering an opinion that something didn't happen.

[animatic]

^Surely a better Deutshland legal parallel would be that on holocaust denial.

Where you can get thrown into jail for offering an opinion that something didn't happen.

A good example yes.

[Samuian]

^Surely a better Deutshland legal parallel would be that on holocaust denial.

Where you can get thrown into jail for offering an opinion that something didn't happen.

Sir, on purpose, I didn't wanted to stick my finger in this hyper-infected wound -

that seems never ever to be allowed to heal!

But this has very little to do with that an Asian, a former Thai Prime Minister

and Mega-rich Businessman, who has turned to be a criminal on the run,

is very likely to be indicted under the current LM law-

That why my example with the traffic rules and the law implementing them -

regardless!

As for Mr.Gleeson, so for Mr.Thaksin!

Should be all the same under the law - shouldn't they?

[chrislarsson]

Journalist, do you think it's Thaksin's place, as a convicted criminal who has fled the country, to either be urging or demanding anything of the King?

Whether legal or not, i just think that making requests in public of His Majesty is inappropriate and disrespectful.

So are you saying that the LM laws make it illegal to ask for the King's help in Public ???

No i wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that someone who has been convicted of a crime and who flees, refusing to accept the punishment handed down by the courts of the King's land, has no place to be asking favours of anyone, let alone His Majesty. I'm not talking about laws i'm talking about courtesy and respect, something some seem to know little about.

Sure he is convicted of a crime...by a court that we are not allowed to criticize. Most people here have already decided he was guilty, so facts are of no use. Discussion is totally meaningless as it will never raise above already preconceived opinions, and it will quickly fall down to the level of trading insults.

[Plus]

There's a difference between ask and demand, or urge.

At this point we don't know which part of Thaksin's interview was deemed offensive, btw.

[TAWP]

If the police thinks his urging was a concealed treat that it [i.e. any deaths that followed] would be on HRM's conscience if he didn't intervene, then there is grounds for LM.

We might not like that the laws exists, but one can atleast grasp the reasoning for the case at hand.

[Added clarification.]

Edited May 18, 2009 by TAWP

[Journalist]

If the police thinks his urging was a concealed treat that it [i.e. any deaths that followed] would be on HRM's conscience if he didn't intervene, then there is grounds for LM.

When I read the interview at the time, it did seem like a cleverly worded veiled threat. Yes.

Of the type when a thug comes into your beer bar, whacks his club on the counter and says "We wouldn't want nuffink nasty to 'appen now, would we?"

Hard to establish that the literal meaning diverged from the imputed meaning though, as the defendant can simply point to the literal meaning and say 'I meant precisely that, no more'

[CWMcMurray]

So ther is a speed limit, bu it's 03:45 am and NO ONE ELSE on the road,

no traffic at all and the driver goes: Ah, well and hits it,

accelerates and is radar trapped with 236 km/h .....

as a result he loses his license and a hefty fine!

What if he just told a reporter that he felt that unless the police were there to help patrol the autobond at 03:45 am it is likely that people will drive excessively fast and it could result in an accident and possible deaths? What if he then urged the police to be vigilent and asked for their help to try and prevent posible deaths?

Should he still be arrested?

Edited May 18, 2009 by CWMcMurray

[CWMcMurray]

Should be all the same under the law - shouldn't they?

Couldn't agree with you more,

So, how long do you think it will be until the leaders of the Yellows are also prosecuted for their crimes?

I would imagine that if protesting outside the Parliament house is illegal then storming the build and holding a nation hostage surely should be.

To make my position completely clear, I AM NOT A THAKSIN SUPPORTER. I am in favor of throwing them all in jail.

I just think that the blatant double standards are easily seen by the entire world for what they are... trying to destroy their political opponents.

It is not difficult for a free thinking person who has no real stake in the argument to look at the situation objectively and compare the damage that was done by the "yellows" and the damage that was done by the "reds" and then the difference in how it is being handled by the authorities.

I will repeat your question back to you..."Should be all same under the law - shouldn't they?"

[rixalex]

It is not difficult for a free thinking person who has no real stake in the argument to look at the situation objectively and compare the damage that was done by the "yellows" and the damage that was done by the "reds" and then the difference in how it is being handled by the authorities.

The difference in how these cases are being handled owes something in part to the fact that the damage commited by the "reds" happened under the watch of the current government and was an attack directly on that government, whereas the damage commited by the "yellows" happened under the watch of another government. That's not to say that the current government doesn't have a responsibility to investigate criminal acts that happened before they came to power, but i think it's natural for them to concentrate more on those that happened whilst the country has been their responsibility, don't you?

[rixalex]

So ther is a speed limit, bu it's 03:45 am and NO ONE ELSE on the road,

no traffic at all and the driver goes: Ah, well and hits it,

accelerates and is radar trapped with 236 km/h .....

as a result he loses his license and a hefty fine!

What if he just told a reporter that he felt that unless the police were there to help patrol the autobond at 03:45 am it is likely that people will drive excessively fast and it could result in an accident and possible deaths? What if he then urged the police to be vigilent and asked for their help to try and prevent posible deaths?

Should he still be arrested?

Yes if he's reporting something that he himself is instigating.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I read the Thaksin interview in the Financial Times and what he said went waaaaay beyond asking/demanding HM for a royal pardon. I actually posted the link on this forum, which was removed within minutes. It was definitely not kosher. But obviously it is unprintable, and that is why the papers haven't reported on it. Or did I see a snippet in The Nation last week about it? I can't remember.

[DaleBlue]

I read the Thaksin interview in the Financial Times and what he said went waaaaay beyond asking/demanding HM for a royal pardon. I actually posted the link on this forum, which was removed within minutes. It was definitely not kosher. But obviously it is unprintable, and that is why the papers haven't reported on it. Or did I see a snippet in The Nation last week about it? I can't remember.

If you cannot prove it, don't post it.

I can also say I have evident of this and that, but someone have already destoryed the evidents before I can show it. Please believe me. I did have the evidents.

[dbrenn]

It is not difficult for a free thinking person who has no real stake in the argument to look at the situation objectively and compare the damage that was done by the "yellows" and the damage that was done by the "reds" and then the difference in how it is being handled by the authorities.

The difference in how these cases are being handled owes something in part to the fact that the damage commited by the "reds" happened under the watch of the current government and was an attack directly on that government, whereas the damage commited by the "yellows" happened under the watch of another government. That's not to say that the current government doesn't have a responsibility to investigate criminal acts that happened before they came to power, but i think it's natural for them to concentrate more on those that happened whilst the country has been their responsibility, don't you?

That's a new way of justifying a double standard. Congratulations on originality.

Serious public order offences like blockading government house and shutting down the international airport and killing the tourist industry are OK, because they were committed during the tenure of the opposition government. Public order offences that happened under the present government are to be treated differently under the eyes of the law, according to your logic.

And you are contradicting yourself again. You go on to say "that's not to say that the current government doesn't have a responsibility to investigate criminal acts before they came to power". "Investigate". Now there's an open anded word if ever there was one. From your post, the only thing that's clear is that you don't think that the yellow riots are relevant anymore.

Justice should not discriminate according to who is in power, or what colour shirts they wear. The fact that it does is what is alienating so many people from Abhisit's futile attempt at reconciliation.

Edited May 18, 2009 by dbrenn

[animatic]

I read the Thaksin interview in the Financial Times and what he said went waaaaay beyond asking/demanding HM for a royal pardon. I actually posted the link on this forum, which was removed within minutes. It was definitely not kosher. But obviously it is unprintable, and that is why the papers haven't reported on it. Or did I see a snippet in The Nation last week about it? I can't remember.

If you cannot prove it, don't post it.

I can also say I have evident of this and that, but someone have already destoryed the evidents before I can show it. Please believe me. I did have the evidents.

Well the fact that the main papers dare not print it in detail,

goes a LONG way to indicating it WAS LM actionable.

They don't want to be a party to an LM indictment for repeating the words.

Since we DO know in which direction it was aimed that also confirms that

it is likely open for legal action.

Sao is not the courts, he need not PROVE anything.

He is giving a report of WHAT HE READ in the F.T.

We have the source, The F.T. and can follow up if we wish.

Fair play.

Edited May 18, 2009 by animatic

[dbrenn]

Journalist, do you think it's Thaksin's place, as a convicted criminal who has fled the country, to either be urging or demanding anything of the King?

Whether legal or not, i just think that making requests in public of His Majesty is inappropriate and disrespectful.

So are you saying that the LM laws make it illegal to ask for the King's help in Public ???

No i wasn't saying that at all. I was saying that someone who has been convicted of a crime and who flees, refusing to accept the punishment handed down by the courts of the King's land, has no place to be asking favours of anyone, let alone His Majesty. I'm not talking about laws i'm talking about courtesy and respect, something some seem to know little about.

What gets my back up is all the bickering politicians and TV posters here like yourself speculating on what His Majesty may or may not be thinking about this difficult situation that Thailand is in right now. I think you should leave him out of your discussion altogether, and not use his name in justifying any of your arguments regards decisions by the inferior political classes. The King has always wanted what is best for the country, and he has always had a very subtle approach. I don't think it's appropriate for people like you to second guess what he may or may not think about courtesy, respect, or otherwise.

Edited May 18, 2009 by dbrenn

[dbrenn]

The problem for him is that for every positive First... there's 3 negative Firsts

eg.

First PM to be convicted of a crime

First PM to be sentenced to prison

First PM to have back-to-back political parties dissolved due to their electoral fraud

So the corrupt junta and their installed government would have us believe. Let the electorate decide on that one, at the humble but exact ballot box

The courts decided, and the government was instaled by democratically elected MPs. Were their backroom deals? Of course, the same as politics everywhere.

Do anybody believe that the seizures of the government house and the airports have not had an impact on the formation of the current government?

You would be surpised how many people here do think that. Chronology and facts are lost to some people

[Mario2008]

I read the Thaksin interview in the Financial Times and what he said went waaaaay beyond asking/demanding HM for a royal pardon. I actually posted the link on this forum, which was removed within minutes. It was definitely not kosher. But obviously it is unprintable, and that is why the papers haven't reported on it. Or did I see a snippet in The Nation last week about it? I can't remember.

If you cannot prove it, don't post it.

I can also say I have evident of this and that, but someone have already destoryed the evidents before I can show it. Please believe me. I did have the evidents.

The link was deleted by the moderators as it would have been a violation of the LM laws to allow it to be shown here. The fact that no Thailand based news paper has dared to publish it is saying enough.

People might be able to find it on the internet, but we will not allow a link to the article.

[rixalex]

Serious public order offences like blockading government house and shutting down the international airport and killing the tourist industry are OK, because they were committed during the tenure of the opposition government. Public order offences that happened under the present government are to be treated differently under the eyes of the law, according to your logic.

Didn't say it was OK, didn't say it should be treated differently - just said it was understandable that a government would pursue crimes against the state that occur when they are in power.

[rixalex]

I don't think it's appropriate for people like you ...

People like you? Please expand dbrenn.

[Mario2008]

This topic has started to drift away from the LM charges against Thaksin . I think enough has been said about the charges against Thaksin and we do not encourage a general discussion on LM, also people start to mention His Majesty the King. So this topic is now closed.