Is Small Rice Farming Worth The Effort?

[AmericanMike]

I recently built a lovely house in the Isan area and my wife's two sisters quickly moved in which is actually nice as they both good girls, good cooks, good cleaners, good errand runners, and good looking too!

Anyway, their parents stay in their own home, but in the same town, and the mother recently suggested to them that they should go to Bangkok to look for work so the family could earn money to get their rice farm ready. I know nothing about rice farming, and have stayed completely out of their business and they've been great in that they haven't tried to drag me into things and also never ask me for anything which is the way I like it. Yet, I had to ask why they hadn't saved enough money from last years crop to get this years started? It kind of started to reminded me of the bar girls in Phuket who don't have money for food during low season although they were making more money than they could possibly spend during high season, yet I guess they thought low season might not come next year as it does EVERY YEAR. Well, my wife gave me a very weird look as if that was a stupid question as she explained to me that their farm doesn't "make" money. She explained that even her friends who have farms which "I" think are large don't even make money from their farms as you need a very large farm (and thus obviously modern equipment) if you want to make any money.

So, I asked her to explain the numbers to me and took a lot of questioning to attempt to get this information, but this is what she claims. Each year they spend up to 13,000 baht on the farm--first she said 10,000, but then it became 13,000 which I guess might be the price if a farang is asking (joking a little as my wife and her family aren't like that). This produces about 100 bags of rice, but upon further questioning it seems that this is really just about 24 "large" bags. I saw the smaller bags from last year though, and they seemed pretty large to me and I do remember them filling up a small room, but ok, let's say it's 24 large bags--maybe some bags are going different places to pay people for different parts of something and she's just not able to explain this to me in English. Regardless, it seems that at the end of everything they are ending up with just 18 bags which is eatable. Not sure if more bags are lost somewhere again but she tried to explain that not all the rice that is cut can be eaten and 24 bags of rice equals about 18 bags of eatable rice. Took me a lot of asking to get to that point and the trick was to ask "How many store quality large bags of rice do you GET from your farm a year?" To which that answer was 18.

Ok, the family eats about 1.5 bags a month which is 18 bags and thus NOTHING to sell. I then asked, how much is a bag of rice? She didn't know since they don't buy or sell rice, but she went to the local market the next day and said a bag costs about 1000 baht.

Ok, so spend 13,000 baht to prepare the farm a year, plus a TON of work for 18,000 baht worths of rice? Putting you ahead 5000 baht? What am I missing here? This makes no sense to me. I'm assuming she must have omitted something very important or got the numbers wrong. I know these Isan rice farmers aren't bringing in huge amounts of money, but if these figures are true it'd seem to make more sense for the two daughters to go get a cleaning job for one month and just buy all their rice instead.

Can someone who knows a little more about this help shed some light on this for me? I doubt this is all true, but if so I'm tempted to just pay the girls for taking care of my house and they can use that money opt out of spending all day in the fields and just buy their rice instead (doing it this way would help keep "me" out of it as I would just be paying the girls to clean and it's up to them what they do with the money, and I assume they'd want to use it to simply buy rice and stay home relaxing instead of working out in the field for 5000 baht a year).

[pnustedt]

What do you mean by "large"? If you're getting 100 bags off a harvester I guess you are talking about 9-10 rai? The Bt13K spend includes harvesting and fertiliser? If so, and it's good, well tended land, you should gross about Bt40K, leaving a profit of about Bt27K at today's prices (i.e. Bt14.3/kilo). Part of the "loss" of rice will be for family feed plus seed for next year. Growing rice shouldn't preclude the daughters getting a cleaning job for 10 months of the year.

However, if you're talking about a paddy of a rai or two, it's just a hobby garden.

[Lickey]

Hi Mike, welcome to the Forum, and yes, a very good question..

Is the investment worth the return? 5k bht a year, no, In Issan, 1 crop a year is the norm, not enough rain for 2 crops, They have only just started preparing the paddies in Namsom, cos weve had a few good storms in the last week, 1 enterprising farmer plants sweetcorn as soon as the rice is harvested, the paddy is still wet enough to support this, and also a good cover/nitrogen crop to plough in once harvested.

Nows the time here to see farmers waiting at the Farmers Bank for a loan for rice ect, then they have to repay after harvest.

Another option is to rent the paddies out, small money every month, but an income, Here, farmers will only pay while they work the paddy and stop paying when harvest is complete.

And yet another option is to plant trees, fruit or otherwise, this will depend on if the paddy can stay well drained in the wet season.

There you go Americanmike, a few ideas for you to think about, although i think your biggest problem is to get family to change what they have done for donkeys years!! Good Luck, Lickey.

[slapout]

If you are paying the 2 sisters for their labor, have the wife put half into the bank and the money will be there to plant the rice, etc. If you are not paying them nor is your wife, I would be surprised/astounded (all things are possible here). If they live with you, their food etc is probably furnished by you/wife and the meager salary for household help, if 1/2 is saved is still enough to finance rice crop and they can take time off from household duties to help plant and harvest.

[rogercw]

My Thai girl tells me she bought a rice paddy while she was home in Nong Khai over Songkran. If I understand her correctly (not always a given) she spent 20,000 baht for the paddy, which is one rai and will normally produce about 10 "bags" of rice twice a year. She says her parents will do everything and get all the rice.

Does this sound reasonable? It was her money so I am not concerned about money. I just wonder if I am understanding her correctly or if something is lost in the translation.

[Macx]

Sounds pretty decent, particularly for 2 crops per year.

Is the Nong Khai region capable of 2 crop a year? Is the second crop mechanically irrigated?

[rogercw]

My girl says yes they get two crops a year. One in June and July water comes from rain. The one in January the water comes from electricity. I assume she means it is pumped electrically from either an aquifier or an irrigation canal. She says her father (retired government employee) already had four one rai paddies. She bought hers next to his and he will farm all five.

[Maizefarmer]

I recently built a lovely house in the Isan area and my wife's two sisters quickly moved in which is actually nice as they both good girls, good cooks, good cleaners, good errand runners, and good looking too!

Anyway, their parents stay in their own home, but in the same town, and the mother recently suggested to them that they should go to Bangkok to look for work so the family could earn money to get their rice farm ready. I know nothing about rice farming, and have stayed completely out of their business and they've been great in that they haven't tried to drag me into things and also never ask me for anything which is the way I like it. Yet, I had to ask why they hadn't saved enough money from last years crop to get this years started? It kind of started to reminded me of the bar girls in Phuket who don't have money for food during low season although they were making more money than they could possibly spend during high season, yet I guess they thought low season might not come next year as it does EVERY YEAR. Well, my wife gave me a very weird look as if that was a stupid question as she explained to me that their farm doesn't "make" money. She explained that even her friends who have farms which "I" think are large don't even make money from their farms as you need a very large farm (and thus obviously modern equipment) if you want to make any money.

So, I asked her to explain the numbers to me and took a lot of questioning to attempt to get this information, but this is what she claims. Each year they spend up to 13,000 baht on the farm--first she said 10,000, but then it became 13,000 which I guess might be the price if a farang is asking (joking a little as my wife and her family aren't like that). This produces about 100 bags of rice, but upon further questioning it seems that this is really just about 24 "large" bags. I saw the smaller bags from last year though, and they seemed pretty large to me and I do remember them filling up a small room, but ok, let's say it's 24 large bags--maybe some bags are going different places to pay people for different parts of something and she's just not able to explain this to me in English. Regardless, it seems that at the end of everything they are ending up with just 18 bags which is eatable. Not sure if more bags are lost somewhere again but she tried to explain that not all the rice that is cut can be eaten and 24 bags of rice equals about 18 bags of eatable rice. Took me a lot of asking to get to that point and the trick was to ask "How many store quality large bags of rice do you GET from your farm a year?" To which that answer was 18.

Ok, the family eats about 1.5 bags a month which is 18 bags and thus NOTHING to sell. I then asked, how much is a bag of rice? She didn't know since they don't buy or sell rice, but she went to the local market the next day and said a bag costs about 1000 baht.

Ok, so spend 13,000 baht to prepare the farm a year, plus a TON of work for 18,000 baht worths of rice? Putting you ahead 5000 baht? What am I missing here? This makes no sense to me. I'm assuming she must have omitted something very important or got the numbers wrong. I know these Isan rice farmers aren't bringing in huge amounts of money, but if these figures are true it'd seem to make more sense for the two daughters to go get a cleaning job for one month and just buy all their rice instead.

Can someone who knows a little more about this help shed some light on this for me? I doubt this is all true, but if so I'm tempted to just pay the girls for taking care of my house and they can use that money opt out of spending all day in the fields and just buy their rice instead (doing it this way would help keep "me" out of it as I would just be paying the girls to clean and it's up to them what they do with the money, and I assume they'd want to use it to simply buy rice and stay home relaxing instead of working out in the field for 5000 baht a year).

You only have to go to the North East and see the lifestyle of the average Isaan rice farmer ...... it speaks for its self. Its a hand to mouth exisstance, a constant struggle to meet ends and a never ending circle of debt.

Give it a miss..

[bina]

anon's family this year has stopped growing their own rice as parents too old; sister is doing peppers, and we've chanoted one of the last remaining but unused paddies for a house....

they buy rice now but do cassava for the very marginal profit... there is one major rice grower in the village also obviosly owns the mill. farmers are always paying off last years debts against future crops the next year which is why there is really no profit. its a cycle and u are definately missing some of the info of who owes how much to whom... but they will farm the paddies to keep them in legal usage can also be 'lent' or 'rented' for loans-- and trraditionally having paddy is better then having no land at all.as well as working the land. agricultural thais prefer the 'freedom' of working when they want i.e. being their own boss (working the land) and temporarily working for others to make some quick money,coming and going as they please (as many farang discover) -- with the lull in the harvest/sowing season to 'pak pon' (rest up) before starting over again. they are still agrarian workers at heart ... even if its not worth it in reality of today's economy.

subsistence living with no capital and no savings-- it will take a few more generations to teach the art of saving for the future and investing in it...

bina