Racism in Thailand?

[pedro01]

As I see it - this is no different to racism back home (UK). For those from the UK, are you sure you've never uttered any "Paki" comments ?

I lived in Tennessee a few years ago - not a great place to be black at all, unless you aspire to work in McDonalds.

Then I lived in Japan - not a good place to be white at all. I got lots of shit off the Japanese out there - no Gai-Jin.

The only difference out here from homw is that us 'whiteys' are on the receiving end for a change and we aren't used to it - hence the righteous indignation.

Go paint yourself black & go walk into a pub in Hampshire - come back & tell me how it went.

Now - get over it...

[jerry921]

and speaking of flip-flops....

that's another no-no

as the Filipinos became incensed by that term, the Navy changed their nomenclature to "shower shoes".

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I never realized the association before... I always took it as being the "turn over" meaning. And that is the term I've always used because that was what everyone else used to call them when I was little. Now I hear other names, I'll have to fix my usage.

[BKKstan]

I have recently been to a beautiful public thai swimming pool in Bangkok. I have been looking for a pool for quite a while. I live and work in BKK.

I tried to join and the old man said ''Farang cannot, only for Thai''.

I was taken aback. After asking him why ... and getting the usual blank look ... I got 

Has anyone else come across this racism? And does anyone know a public pool where membership isn't dependent on the colour of your skin.

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[Phil Clark]

During my one trip to Thailand, in 1990, I saw a brand of toothpaste on sale in Central.  It was named "Darkie" and had a golliwog logo.  I pointed it out to my Thai friend and he said that they were having to eliminate that brand even though it was a very old, well known and popular (i.e. valueable) brand.

I bought two little 4.5 baht tubes of it, one of which I tried (basically the same as Pepsodent) and one of which I have kept until now as a souveneer of the unenlighted past (not being sarcastic).  If I returned to Thailand and found the brand still on sale I might feel disappointed in the lack of progress.

It is my understanding that there is in fact one very very famous family in Thailand which, being very old and very Thai, and not mixed with Chinese blood at all, has fairly dark skin.  However, I think taking this particular point further might be dangerous.  I mention it just to note from the safety of America that some attitudes override others.

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The name was slightly changed, but the logo is still there. The brand pretty much dominates the toothpaste market.

TH

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It is now called 'Darlie'. Everything else is the same.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

During my one trip to Thailand, in 1990, I saw a brand of toothpaste on sale in Central.  It was named "Darkie" and had a golliwog logo.  I pointed it out to my Thai friend and he said that they were having to eliminate that brand even though it was a very old, well known and popular (i.e. valueable) brand.

I bought two little 4.5 baht tubes of it, one of which I tried (basically the same as Pepsodent) and one of which I have kept until now as a souveneer of the unenlighted past (not being sarcastic).  If I returned to Thailand and found the brand still on sale I might feel disappointed in the lack of progress.

It is my understanding that there is in fact one very very famous family in Thailand which, being very old and very Thai, and not mixed with Chinese blood at all, has fairly dark skin.  However, I think taking this particular point further might be dangerous.  I mention it just to note from the safety of America that some attitudes override others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The name was slightly changed, but the logo is still there. The brand pretty much dominates the toothpaste market.

TH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is now called 'Darlie'. Everything else is the same.

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And the Golliwog face has gone

[Insight]

Kat, cheers for that link and write-up on the Gollywog subject - there's a lot there I didn't know.

[pedro01]

During my one trip to Thailand, in 1990, I saw a brand of toothpaste on sale in Central.  It was named "Darkie" and had a golliwog logo.  I pointed it out to my Thai friend and he said that they were having to eliminate that brand even though it was a very old, well known and popular (i.e. valueable) brand.

I bought two little 4.5 baht tubes of it, one of which I tried (basically the same as Pepsodent) and one of which I have kept until now as a souveneer of the unenlighted past (not being sarcastic).  If I returned to Thailand and found the brand still on sale I might feel disappointed in the lack of progress.

It is my understanding that there is in fact one very very famous family in Thailand which, being very old and very Thai, and not mixed with Chinese blood at all, has fairly dark skin.  However, I think taking this particular point further might be dangerous.  I mention it just to note from the safety of America that some attitudes override others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The name was slightly changed, but the logo is still there. The brand pretty much dominates the toothpaste market.

TH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is now called 'Darlie'. Everything else is the same.

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And the Golliwog face has gone

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The Gollowig hasn't gone - you just can't see his Afro under the hat.

My wife uses is - can't stand the stuff myself - Colgate all the way...

[sriracha john]

and speaking of flip-flops....

that's another no-no

as the Filipinos became incensed by that term, the Navy changed their nomenclature to "shower shoes".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never realized the association before... I always took it as being the "turn over" meaning.

neither had any of us in the Navy until it showed up as an official memorandum... we all said a collective "SHEESH".....

And that is the term I've always used because that was what everyone else used to call them when I was little.

you and everyone else.... isn't this political correctness today just wonderful??

Now I hear other names, I'll have to fix my usage.

and be darn quick about, or it's the Brig for you..... LOL

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[meemiathai]

Racism.

What is Racism?

Is hating/liking someone due to his colour racism?

Is thinking that someone would be more stupid/intelligent due to his colour racism?

Is thinking that someone should be higher/lower class due to his colour racism?

Is thinking that snakes are ugly and cats are lovely racism?

Can someone define Racism?

[sriracha john]

Racism.

What is Racism?

1. Is hating/liking someone due to his colour racism?

2. Is thinking that someone would be more stupid/intelligent due to his colour  racism?

3. Is thinking that someone should be higher/lower class due to his colour racism?

4. Is thinking that snakes are ugly and cats are lovely racism?

Can someone define Racism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

www.dictionary.com

rac·ism n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

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accordingly, your 1 and 4 are not, 2 and 3 are.

[Ajarn]

Racism.

What is Racism?

1. Is hating/liking someone due to his colour racism?

2. Is thinking that someone would be more stupid/intelligent due to his colour   racism?

3. Is thinking that someone should be higher/lower class due to his colour racism?

4. Is thinking that snakes are ugly and cats are lovely racism?

Can someone define Racism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

www.dictionary.com

rac·ism n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

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accordingly, your 1 and 4 are not, 2 and 3 are.

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1 sure is, in my view... Descrimination or predjudice based on race. In fact, that is the classic example, isn't it? He's black, so I love him/hate him...

[jerry921]

re golliwogs and flip-flops... (I give up on the requoting; couldn't make multi-quote work)

The "Darkie" toothpaste I have has a logo that is a head-and-shoulders picture of a man in a top hat, coat and bow tie with a big grin (and big eyes). The hair isn't really visible. Sounds like the logo hasn't changed a bit.

Now that you mention it, I think my friend told me at the time they were changing the name to Darlie, so it must have been right about then that they changed. I should think the logo would be offensive as well as the name.

People in the US have different names for Flip-flops, I know some people have called them Thongs for a long time (long before that was applied to underwear or swim suits). I think there's yet another name I can't recall. I don't know whether its regional or what.

What are they called in British English?

[taxexile]

What are they called in British English?

the height of fashion.

[sriracha john]

Racism.

What is Racism?

1. Is hating/liking someone due to his colour racism?

2. Is thinking that someone would be more stupid/intelligent due to his colour   racism?

3. Is thinking that someone should be higher/lower class due to his colour racism?

4. Is thinking that snakes are ugly and cats are lovely racism?

Can someone define Racism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

www.dictionary.com

rac·ism n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

accordingly, your 1 and 4 are not, 2 and 3 are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1 sure is, in my view... Descrimination or predjudice based on race. In fact, that is the classic example, isn't it? He's black, so I love him/hate him...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

purely definitively, not necessarily as it's possible to like someone, yet still feel superior to them (for example, numerous posters here I think can fall into that category).

it may fall under the definition of prejudice and/or discrimination, but not, IMHO, racism.

[Shola]

" ... I believe all these latest racist connections of words, like dirty/black have come about from the legal system itself, just for exploitive purposes. (And are now taken as racist when they wern't before)

Theres a h*ll of a lot of $$ to be made playing the 'victim/racism' card in court.

(Although there are legitimate cases, I'm just saying who wouldn't use that card to make a bit of extra $$?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "latest" racist connection of words stems from the history and occurrence of racism itself. No one is taking anyone to court on this thread. Most racist behavior occurs as a "social" interaction and cannot be litigated anyway. There is no "legal" system in Thailand that has ever or would ever challenge the connection of those words, and yet it occurs, with astounding regularity. Perhaps you are unaware of the current connection because you are white and have not really explored the other side of the issue in Thailand or elsewhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No one is taking anyone to court here but we are all influenced on some level by the media reports of huge litigation cases elsewhere, namly the U.S, and are forced to follow suit, i.e the Darkie/Darlie name/logo change of Thai toothpaste brand, more than likely changed due to pressure on Thai's from westerners, not becuase the Thai's themselves had any problem with it.

I agree that most racism occurs in social interactions, but I do believe it has been influenced somewhat by the intensity of 'Political Correctness'.

I was always taught that saying 'The black man' was wrong and it should be 'The colored man' , now I find the opposite is true, but if I unwittingly offend someone for saying 'the black man', I will be branded racist just becuase thier teachings/PC influences were different to mine, they may not sue me but they have still played the 'card' and my charecter is smeared, unfairly.

I find this a very hard topic to write about as what is considered racist behavour varies so much from person to person, and no matter what, you will always offend somebody without meaning to.

(Very interesting article, have to say I was unaware that the Gollywog came about through such extream racism)

[sriracha john]

What are they called in British English?

the height of fashion.

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the resulting laughter caused a coughing spasm.... thanks a lot, tax

[jerry921]

Racism.

What is Racism?

1. Is hating/liking someone due to his colour racism?

2. Is thinking that someone would be more stupid/intelligent due to his colour  racism?

3. Is thinking that someone should be higher/lower class due to his colour racism?

4. Is thinking that snakes are ugly and cats are lovely racism?

Can someone define Racism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

www.dictionary.com

rac·ism n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

accordingly, your 1 and 4 are not, 2 and 3 are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1 sure is, in my view... Descrimination or predjudice based on race. In fact, that is the classic example, isn't it? He's black, so I love him/hate him...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Under a strict interpretion of the definition, then, excluding OP from the pool was not racism because:

a. smell is neither charactor nor ability, and

b. there isn't a clear link between the idea that farangs smell differently than Thais and the idea that farangs are an inferior race to Thais.

Yet under the "I know it when I see it" rule, it certainly counts for me as racism. So I think the definition leaves a bit to be desired.

The definition might have said "differences in human characteristics", that would then have included smell (or stink), skin color, hair color, eye color, etc. Perhaps that makes it too broad.

I don't know if it made the international news but there's been a PC tempest going on over here in America because the President of Harvard University (no less) made a statement at a conference on women and science that severely upset the feminist PC orthodoxy who were present. Apparently the exact statement hasn't been recorded, but it was something to the effect that the innate differences between men and women might have something to do with part of the disparity between the numbers of men and women who choose to go into science. Hoooeeey, was that ever a fart in the elevator. Here's the first letter President Summers wrote to fall on his sword, which didn't satisfy his critics, and here's an article written by George Will for the Washington Post that piles on from the anti-PC side. Its all pretty tame, really, compared to not getting into the pool, and what a fuss!

[Khun Ngo]

Yawn!!!

Eight pages, and still nobody actually went to that pool to check it out?

[pedro01]

Yawn!!!

Eight pages, and still nobody actually went to that pool to check it out?

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Can you do that on the internet ?

[aaaaaa]

ha haha !

exactly! why not do something real and preactical about it instead of wasting time on endless debate about it here? may be such march should be made as someone suggested here?

what's this all fuss about and for what ?

have the original poster tried to something about it himself after that? or anyone else unsatisfied or upset? then what's the point to waste time - does it help anything, particularly to solve the problem, if it is a problem.

and about that definition of racism - well, who knows which belifs or motives had that old guy? amy be it is rather his inferiority than superiority ? because it is a fact that many asians do have such inferiority complex towards white skin - many times they espress shyness and even fear if/ when encounter cucasians... then if such 'discriminations' based on opposite belief - would it be considered racism, even though it is also sort of discrimination?

may be that old guy was in awe and reverence and said "no farangs" out of care and concern for him ?

and then I wonder, if it was a case of other person's expressing his/ her inferiority - would one protest/ get angry/ upset/ complain / keep long thread in the Forum because of that?

like: "oh! that racist (or what other term should be used, since it falls out of racism definition from dictionary) has trembled before me and called me sir and tried brown-nosing me ! this is discrimination ! why he feels the difference based upon our race? bastard! I'll go to police and make sure they prosecute him for insulting my feelings ! I'm not superior to him! "

I think instead one would enjoy that inferior attitude from other person, right? some maight feel disgusted or shy/ embarrased - but not angry or upset. most probably even encourage it.

although it is also definite expression of difference - if not discrimination - based upon race. but why won't one refuse such treating him/ her as superior as one would / does treating as inferior?

differences in race and color etc does exist - areundenieble facts of life. why not accept them? and so are the rules of particular governments, institutions and establishments? why not face them or otherwise try to clarify first the situation before jumping to conclusions and negative reactions such as anger and bringing up the matter to public Forum ?

[kat]

Cheers. This thread has generated a lot of interesting discussion.

Aaaaaa: if you can't discuss this in a public forum, where do you discuss it? If we all just sat back and accepted racism, much of Western society would be completely different. Obviously, there were many that weren't happy with it.

Shola: I can relate to your comments as well. The ultra "politically correct" brigade sans thinking is tiring for everyone. Your point about varying pc definitions is a good one. For me, it's what is in someone's heart, or intent. I think there are many good people who may be ignorant, or simply out-of-touch with the "latest" pc phrases. That does not make someone racist. When they learn how some of their phrases or thinking affects others, many of them change. I have seen some young Thais moved to tears when they learn the plight of many Burmese both in Burma and here in Thailand for the first time.

In retrospect, I think I could of overreacted to Jockstar's comment about "dirty/black" etc. But, from experience, I also know that it is a common slur here in Thailand, especially towards black people.

Many of us have our different sensitivities or lack thereof, for different reasons. It doesn't all mean that it's all racist, or that all racist claims are overreactions or fiction. There are different experiences, different levels of understanding, different motivations for understanding, and well, differences.

Sorry for the long attached Golliwog article. I could of just provided the link, but I didn't want you to miss it. All of us have different backgrounds for understanding the same things. It's just a matter of looking at things from many different angles, at least in a pluralist society. That's the difference, I think.

Edited February 10, 2005 by kat

[kat]

As I see it - this is no different to racism back home (UK). For those from the UK, are you sure you've never uttered any "Paki" comments ?

I lived in Tennessee a few years ago - not a great place to be black at all, unless you aspire to work in McDonalds.

Then I lived in Japan - not a good place to be white at all. I got lots of shit off the Japanese out there - no Gai-Jin.

The only difference out here from homw is that us 'whiteys' are on the receiving end for a change and we aren't used to it - hence the righteous indignation.

Go paint yourself black & go walk into a pub in Hampshire - come back & tell me how it went.

Now - get over it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dude, I enjoyed your comment here. Quite a kick-ass statement. My only reservation is the suggestion that if things are also bad elsewhere, we can't comment on the bad in front of us?

[chonabot]

Go paint yourself black & go walk into a pub in Hampshire - come back & tell me how it went.

Now - get over it...

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Well , as I work in Hampshire most days , they would probably say

" Why have you painted yourself Black you idiot ?"

A fairly poor example of an area that is racist IMO. When was the last time you visited UK Pedro?

[nokmdk]

Am i black or something??? your asking if there is racism is Thailand? Yet you use that phrase?????? The problem is two fold here. Yes there is racism in Thailand and every other country in the world. The other problem is the thread starter has used poor taste in the topic it self.

My question sir is this

Are you racist yourself????????? The topic is the only answer most of us need.

[chuchok]

Am i black or something??? your asking if there is racism is Thailand? Yet you use that phrase?????? The problem is two fold here. Yes there is racism in Thailand and every other country in the world. The other problem is the thread starter has used poor taste in the topic it self.

My question sir is this

Are you racist yourself????????? The topic is the only answer most of us need.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe you should read all the thread,where the OP explained the use of his terminology.

[sriracha john]

I wasn't aware that He was into that sort of thing????

hahahahaha.... and POOF!... the immediate previous post I was referencing disappears....

Edited February 10, 2005 by sriracha john

[meemiathai]

Go paint yourself black & go walk into a pub in Hampshire - come back & tell me how it went.

Now - get over it...

Well , as I work in Hampshire most days , they would probably say

" Why have you painted yourself Black you idiot ?"

A fairly poor example of an area that is racist IMO. When was the last time you visited UK Pedro?

Chon, whilst I don't disagree with you thinking that chinese people are one of the most racist people, I do also find most english people very racist.(depending how you define racism) They always behave in a manner like they are better than other races especially asians. They seem not to be capable of accepting it if someone who is not a farang is better than them at something. Maybe it's my problem. I really am not sure. But I do really hope that it was just me being unlucky meeting the wrong people.

[meemiathai]

Am i black or something??? your asking if there is racism is Thailand? Yet you use that phrase?????? The problem is two fold here. Yes there is racism in Thailand and every other country in the world. The other problem is the thread starter has used poor taste in the topic it self.

My question sir is this

Are you racist yourself????????? The topic is the only answer most of us need.

I think the OP had explained it already. So maybe different people different standard. I don't find him racist in any way. But the situation he described is quite obviously racist and unacceptable. I do hope it was misunderstanding. It is not good for Thailand.

[meemiathai]

And some could go as far as to think that the thai word for caucasian "farang" is offensive or racist!

[meemiathai]

To say that black guys have bigger d!cks than white guys is 'racist'.    But it is still the truth!   

This is by far the most racist comment I've seen here in this forum!!!

I find it unacceptable!!!