The Spirits Demand A Sacrifice

[MonsieurHulot]

The following pictures were taken in my garden.

[DavidOxon]

Oh yes,

we had one of those for our Ghost House blessing ceremony!

You're French, do you like confit de joue du porc? (Sp?)

David

[MonsieurHulot]

Oh yes,

we had one of those for our Ghost House blessing ceremony!

You're French, do you like confit de joue du porc? (Sp?)

David

I never had any confit de joue de porc (or "de cochon"). Is it good?

[MonsieurHulot]

Now that the spirits are at peace, the pig is on the menu.

[Rasseru]

Dem's da bits you cooked, or did you cook the rest and they're just what's left over?

[MonsieurHulot]

Dem's da bits you cooked, or did you cook the rest and they're just what's left over?

We cooked the whole thing but my girlfriend had breakfast before I could grab the camera

[Thakkar]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

[warfie]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

I can relate to that...

[Rasseru]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

Too bad she -- I'll assume that here, although you did not touch on the subject -- went for breakfast before you could get a camera.

[Ulysses G.]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

It reminds me of the book, "Lord of the Flies" - the thing in the jungle.

[MonsieurHulot]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

Too bad she -- I'll assume that here, although you did not touch on the subject -- went for breakfast before you could get a camera.

According to some rumors, she ran away with the camera.

[cmsally]

It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings.

The nicer spirits are mostly vegetarians.

Dodgy spirits also require stairs up to their abode, hence the stairs up to the small house in the picture.

Thank goodness my spirits require neither stairs nor pigs and are strict vegetarians!

My spirit knowledge is a bit rusty, I suppose the stairs are required due to lack of wings or "zap me up" powers

[harrry]

It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings.

The nicer spirits are mostly vegetarians.

Dodgy spirits also require stairs up to their abode, hence the stairs up to the small house in the picture.

Thank goodness my spirits require neither stairs nor pigs and are strict vegetarians!

My spirit knowledge is a bit rusty, I suppose the stairs are required due to lack of wings or "zap me up" powers

Of course in the interest of non discrimination you should insall ramps to the spirit house too.

[orang37]

... snip ... It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CMSally,

The first time (12 years ago) I visited Wat Phra Sri Rattana Mahatat Woramahawihan in Phitsanulok to see the magnificent Phra Buddha Chinnarat, I was shocked to come across ... down toward the front of the temple, on the right side of the Viharn ... a large grass mat containing at least ten pig's heads, part of an offering by a small group of rather Chinese looking Thais.

At that time I didn't speak enough Thai, and was probably too "shy," to inquire and find out what the ritual context was. I would hypothesize, though, that this was an offering to Buddha.

best, ~o:37;

[MonsieurHulot]

It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings.

The nicer spirits are mostly vegetarians.

Dodgy spirits also require stairs up to their abode, hence the stairs up to the small house in the picture.

Thank goodness my spirits require neither stairs nor pigs and are strict vegetarians!

My spirit knowledge is a bit rusty, I suppose the stairs are required due to lack of wings or "zap me up" powers

Of course in the interest of non discrimination you should insall ramps to the spirit house too.

[MonsieurHulot]

Oreille de cochon aux échalottes et à la moutarde de Dijon.

[Thakkar]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

Too bad she -- I'll assume that here, although you did not touch on the subject --

er, come to think of it, I'm not so sure myself...GOOD LORD! Noooo! Darn you, Rasseru, for bringing back long suppressed memories!

[cmsally]

... snip ... It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CMSally,

The first time (12 years ago) I visited Wat Phra Sri Rattana Mahatat Woramahawihan in Phitsanulok to see the magnificent Phra Buddha Chinnarat, I was shocked to come across ... down toward the front of the temple, on the right side of the Viharn ... a large grass mat containing at least ten pig's heads, part of an offering by a small group of rather Chinese looking Thais.

At that time I didn't speak enough Thai, and was probably too "shy," to inquire and find out what the ritual context was. I would hypothesize, though, that this was an offering to Buddha.

best, ~o:37;

This is an area for people to bring offerings as "payment" for wishes/favours that have been granted.

ie people come to the temple and pray for a new job etc. If this comes true they will have made up their mind what to bring in exchange and will do so. In this case they will have said, "if I can have X I will bring 10 pigs heads"

Of course this is more based on spirit worship and isn't Buddhism as such (although entwined in Thai buddhism), so the gifts are made to the side. This could be an allotted area, I can't remember the temple layout - only been twice.

[MonsieurHulot]

The spirits seem insatiable today. My in-laws are going to offer them the body of this stillborn kitten.

Edited June 2, 2009 by MonsieurHulot

[Rasseru]

My in-laws are going to offer them the body of this stillborn kitten.

Et ça aussi, c'est à la moutarde de Dijon?

[Rasseru]

looks like someone I once woke up next to after a night of drunken debauchery..

Too bad she -- I'll assume that here, although you did not touch on the subject --

er, come to think of it, I'm not so sure myself...GOOD LORD! Noooo! Darn you, Rasseru, for bringing back long suppressed memories!

You knew it was something you were going to have to work through one day, didn't you?

[MonsieurHulot]

My in-laws are going to offer them the body of this stillborn kitten.

Et ça aussi, c'est à la moutarde de Dijon?

Well, yesterday I saw and smelled a lot of dead meat. In the evening, I was feeling slightly nauseous. I had a light and strictly vegetarian supper (convolvulus and bread) and I left the table as quickly as possible. I couldn't stomach the sight of meat anymore.

[Paagai]

It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings.

The nicer spirits are mostly vegetarians.

Dodgy spirits also require stairs up to their abode, hence the stairs up to the small house in the picture.

Thank goodness my spirits require neither stairs nor pigs and are strict vegetarians!

My spirit knowledge is a bit rusty, I suppose the stairs are required due to lack of wings or "zap me up" powers

I worry about my spirits, they clearly have a drinking problem - does that make them of the dodgy kind?

They are apparently not just satisfied with the pigs head (yep, we've done that ), but must have whiskey too. And your average bottle of LaoKaoo, or even Benmore just won't cut it. Nope, it must be Johnny Walker Black

But they must have real mystic supernatural powers, you leave them the open bottle, pour a small glass for them, pray and leave. Miraculously when you return the bottle has disappeared..................

[MonsieurHulot]

I worry about my spirits, they clearly have a drinking problem

Last year, my spirits had Lao Ya Dong (sp?) but this year, they're all on the wagon. And I swear that, next year, they will have to go on a vegan diet

Edited June 3, 2009 by MonsieurHulot

[cmsally]

After all this, detox might be the only way to go.

[IanForbes]

Sometimes it's the critter that gets eaten...

and sometimes it's the man...

[Rasseru]

Sometimes it's the critter that gets eaten...

and sometimes it's the man...

At more than 10,000,000 to one, I'll take those odds.

[gatorhead333]

... snip ... It's the dodgy spirits that require the ghoulish offerings. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CMSally,

The first time (12 years ago) I visited Wat Phra Sri Rattana Mahatat Woramahawihan in Phitsanulok to see the magnificent Phra Buddha Chinnarat, I was shocked to come across ... down toward the front of the temple, on the right side of the Viharn ... a large grass mat containing at least ten pig's heads, part of an offering by a small group of rather Chinese looking Thais.

At that time I didn't speak enough Thai, and was probably too "shy," to inquire and find out what the ritual context was. I would hypothesize, though, that this was an offering to Buddha.

best, ~o:37;

that pig they killed may have been his own grandmother!

Out of sincere respect for all life and the First Precept to refrain from killing, many Chinese Buddhists are vegetarian. Vegetarianism is consistent with the Buddhist concepts of universal interrelationship and rebirth. With the concept of rebirth humans may be other forms of life in their past and/or future lives, thus it follows that an animal could be a past and/or future next-of-kin. Thus, killing an animal could be seen as synonymous with destroying one’s own relatives.

Lord Budda can not abide..

[MonsieurHulot]

Et ça aussi, c'est à la moutarde de Dijon?

"Dijon vu - the same mustard as before."

[orang37]

that pig they killed may have been his own grandmother!

Out of sincere respect for all life and the First Precept to refrain from killing, many Chinese Buddhists are vegetarian. Vegetarianism is consistent with the Buddhist concepts of universal interrelationship and rebirth. With the concept of rebirth humans may be other forms of life in their past and/or future lives, thus it follows that an animal could be a past and/or future next-of-kin. Thus, killing an animal could be seen as synonymous with destroying one's own relatives.

Lord Budda can not abide..

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun GatorHead333,

Theravadan Buddhism in Thailand is not commonly vegetarian. Monks here can and do eat meat frequently, if it's offered to them. If you believe the Buddhist scriptures are litereally true in some accounts, the Buddha himself is reported to have died because he ate a pork dish prepared by a metal-worker which was offered to him as an act of merit (tamboon); according to the story : the Buddha warned his disciples not to eat the dish which he knew was contaminated.

The correlation of Buddhism with vegetarianism is thought to reflect later elaborations of Buddhism in India and China which reflect amalgamations with Hindu Vedic philosophy, elaborate semi-magical practices associated with the cult of Siva (tantras), in Tibet fusion with the ancient Bon shamanistic religion, etc. And in China, of course, synthesis with Taoism, animism, and Confucianism. The idea of a continuum of food from polluting and non-spiritual to soul-food (rajas, sattvas, tamas) is such a profound part of Vedic tradition.

Of course you will find vegetarian Buddhists who will insist that this is a "root" practice according to scriptures which have been lost, or supposed "oral traditions." Given the wholesale copying over of Shivaite texts into Mahayana Buddhism (just changing the word "Siva" to "Buddha"), and efforts of countless thousands of Brahmins in the Puranic period (those who Milton Singer in his great work on Indian religion calls the "orthogenetic literati") to revise and line everything under the sun in an ever complicating self-referential web focused around the great divine cycle of yugas ... yada, yada, yada ...

There are certainly sub-groups of Thais who are vegetarian and Buddhist, and often they are followers of Mae Kwan Im as well. According to a Ph.D. study by a Danish woman several years ago Mae Kwan Im has an increasing following among the urban upper-middle-class Thai Chinese who convert to become vegans.

You will also find Thai followers of Mae Kwan Im who are Buddhist here in Chiang Mai at, for example, the giant Potisat Shrine (Boddhsattva Shrine) near Wiang Khum Kham, which is the Chiang Mai branch of a Woman Monk (fully ordained in the Mahayana tradition, I believe in Taiwan). And you may know of Chamlong Srimuang's association with the Shanti Ashoke group who I am pretty sure are vegetarians.

While the "official story" (from the Chinese/Indian "Mahayana" Buddhist point of view) is that Mae Kwan Im is the female "emanation" of the Dhyana Buddha Avalokitesvara, reflecting Vedic ideas that "male" "gods" are "abstract" and need a "female" vehicle ("vahanam" or "shakti") to act on "material planes," lots of people, like me, see in Mae Kwan Im an ancient form of Mother Goddess worship.

Many Chinese who migrated here, coming from animist and tradtional Chinese background,s and who were not Buddhist, and then adopted Theravadan Buddhism, were never, and remain, non-vegetarians.

I live mainly on soy milk, but that is not because of any ideology or religious belief : it's a solution to having my taste buds die and being unable to swallow. But, I have to admit living on an almost a 100% vegan diet for two years has done great things for my mental energy. Needless to say I don't recommend getting oral cancer as a way to become vegetarian and lose a lot of weight

Sometimes I enjoy jok, the thick rice-porridge-gruel. I have the feeling my grandfather might just as well be in a grain of rice in my jok as walking around on the hoof waiting to be a steak at Dukes

What concerns me most is the "killing" or "neglect" of "human potential."

enjoy your food, ~o:37;

Edited June 3, 2009 by orang37