Bike Crashed Into My Car

[junkofdavid2]

Looks like IT'S MY TURN.

Suddenly had to break at the narathiwat-sathorn intersection this morning for a sudden red light, and a motorbike tailing fast behind skidded and crashed me from behind; with the motorbike crashing under the car and the bike driver being flung around 4 meters.

On the ground, he mumbled and pointed the finger at me angrily although was in pain and couldn't get up for a while.

The cops all around the intersection (many of them! ) converged around us and interviewed him as they helped him up and he continued pointing his finger at me in an accusive manner, obviously accusing me of sudden breaking or whatever...

I was quite worried because I've heard stories of car driver (especially foreigner) being blamed for almost any accident with a motorbike.

It's only after a while that one of the cops came to me (still in the car) after which I merely said in an obviously foreign accent "pawa, red light lew" (because it's a red light already) and he just said "kap kap, mai me panha" (yup, no problem) and then let me go.

I noticed the other cops around the bike driver looked like they were helping him yet scolding him at the same time and he was just nodding his head like he finally agreed it was "his fault" or whatever.

And that was it...

I finally left when the light turned green again... no trouble for me. I don't know what happened to his bike or to him, but he looked like he was in pain but okay enough to groggily get up and limp away.

Minor damage to my car, not worth claiming with insurance... scratch on the bumper but a little bit deep.

.

Edited June 11, 2009 by junkofdavid2

[babuhavas]

you are lucky to get away with it,must be your birthday

[TerryLH]

As a general rule, the vehicle in the rear is at fault. It sounds like the police handled it the correct way.

[junkofdavid2]

Yes, but (1) I'm a foreigner, and (2) I had a car and he only had a "lowly" vehicle, a motorcycle.

Other threads on Thaivisa suggest that in this scenario, "they" are likely to conveniently pin blame on me.

[Chaimai]

I do like stories with a happy ending.

I suspect that you probably lucky that the BIB were around to witness what had happened.

[thaicbr]

Does the light not go amber at that junction. Most lights i've seen don't suddenly change to red, they go amber first (maybe this one goes straight to red)

[junkofdavid2]

Yes, it went amber first... albeit pretty quickly.

That's when I began my breaking.

Unfortunately, this intersection actually has a seconds counter to help you estimate your speed in relation to the light, but the coppers shut it off sometimes when the traffic is bad (as they did this time).

[junkofdavid2]

I do like stories with a happy ending.

I suspect that you probably lucky that the BIB were around to witness what had happened.

I don't think the coppers saw it happen as it actually happened.

They came and saw after a while, when he was already on the ground lying down.

[thaicbr]

Junk it sounds to me like you were both travelling a bit to fast. you for having to "Suddenly had to break" and him for locking up his brakes and sliding into you. It happens. you were lucky the police didn't do more. You were VERY lucky the Bike rider was not seriously injured.

'"they" are likely to conveniently pin blame on me.' You were both to blame.

Most accidents have a certain amount of mutual blame.

You should learn from your mistakes and not race for the green.

[junkofdavid2]

What would your advise be then...?

If I slow down, there's a greater chance that it might go red when I'm in the "middle" and will get caught by a cop on the other side...?

On the other hand, if I slow down too much, it would be awkward... especially if the light stayed green.

Note that I didn't "speed up" either.

Although, getting caught by a cop on the other side is much better than an accident, I agree.

Actually, there was a recent study on CNN I think (or aljazeera?)... that with the installation of traffic light cameras to catch people beating the red light, the number of rear-end smash-ups greatly increase because it "scares" drivers into "very strictly stopping" at the red light "at all cost" ; but that the U.S. city governments decided to go through with it anyway because it's often less deadly than collisions from intersecting cars, and it's also less in number than intersecting car smash ups.

Edited June 11, 2009 by junkofdavid2

[BigSnake]

Oh your lucky day, some right on cops came to investigate the accident, the bad boy cops would have with doubt tried to milk a few baht out of your pocket, fee for accident report. The first thing I would have done, call my insurance agents(aig) that said nothing, just wait for him. Score this one for the farang a one for the good cops.

[thaicbr]

Junk. It's you that should be thinking about it not me.

"If I slow down, there's a greater chance that it might go red when I'm in the "middle""

This bit i really do not understand. If it goes Red under these circumstances then you have effectively ran an Amber light. Thus YOU are very much at fault for not paying attention or slowing down.

"On the other hand, if I slow down too much, it would be awkward... especially if the light stayed green"

And then this. WHAT would be awkward... The fact that you didn't just run a red or amber light or that your actions didn't cause some one to ram into the back of you. The fact is if you had been paying attention the motorcyclist would NOT have had to try and emergency stop.

It's no biggy, because this time you were lucky. But reflect on the accident so that it does not happen again. THAT'S all i'm trying to say.

[Cobalt60]

Next time,when in rome do as the romans.......... run away.

[Tywais]

It's not clear why some are putting the onus of the situation on the OP. The fact is the cyclist is even more culpable by following too close a distance to the vehicle in front to stop in time and the law usually reflects that as in this situation.

[apetley]

Maybe he was trying to tell the cops you reversed into him.

[thaicbr]

It's not clear why some are putting the onus of the situation on the OP. The fact is the cyclist is even more culpable by following too close a distance to the vehicle in front to stop in time and the law usually reflects that as in this situation.

It's because some of us do not JUST drive car's and SOME of us have had accidents while riding that have been caused in a large part by other drivers ineffective driving skills or lack of attention or both (as i say in an accident both parties can be at fault). All i for one, am doing is hoping that the OP and other people on this site .Think about any accidents they may have.

But Tywais i do agree with the statement in general. but in Bangkok what happens when you leave a gap......... some car jumps into it while speeding for the traffic lights

Edited June 11, 2009 by thaicbr

[richard_smith237]

Come on, some of you believe that just because you are not Thai that when in Thailand any incident you are involved with is automatically your fault?.

I’m sure some idiots may have made that accusation, and that some westerners may have sat back and fallen for it. BUT, the same idiots who are at fault would have blamed whoever the other party was for whatever reason they can think of at the time.

It’s a given here than no one accepts responsibility for anything, it’s a given that the responsibility is the next persons fault. So as a westerner, if in an accident, it’s a given that the majority of the time someone will try and blame you.

The police will just go with the easiest decision. It matters little to them who is to blame so long as the situation is dealt with easily and quickly.

So, if some one is in an accident and accepts responsibility when they are certain it’s not their fault - it was their weakness, paranoia or whatever people wish to call it that is to blame (that and the system).

[Tywais]

But Tywais i do agree with the statement in general. but in Bangkok what happens when you leave a gap......... some car jumps into it while speeding for the traffic lights

Valid point. Actually whenever I have to stop rather suddenly I quickly glance in the rear view mirror to see if I'm going to get hit.

I will back peddle a little on my previous comment and that is the biggest issue for us driving here is bringing our home country driving culture with us. It takes a while to adapt to the Thai way of driving which is a necessity in order to not get into a fix that wouldn't happened back home.

Edited June 11, 2009 by Tywais

[junkofdavid2]

"If I slow down, there's a greater chance that it might go red when I'm in the "middle""

This bit i really do not understand. If it goes Red under these circumstances then you have effectively ran an Amber light. Thus YOU are very much at fault for not paying attention or slowing down.

thaicbr, you make a very wrong assumption that (1) the light was already amber as I neared the intersection (which it was not), and (2) that the eventual amber was sufficient in time (as it also was not). If you've been to this particular intersection (i'm sure you have, if you live in Bkk), you'll see that the length of the "middle" is very looong compared to other intersections, and that the amber can be veryyy quick; definitely not sufficient for the length of the "middle".

As for your part that I should "reflect on what happened", I agree with you and that's exactly what I'm trying to do, and have even been surfing the net since yesterday on what might be the best "strategy" to avoid an accident when approaching a completely green light which has already been green for quite a while, but with no indication of when it's going to change...

..do i speed up and possibly become unlucky if the green turns amber suddenly (in which case It would have been better if I slowed down), maintain speed and hope for the best (and maintain the current chances of getting an amber-red in the 'middle'), or slow down and increase chances of getting an amber-then-red while "in the middle"?

Instead of "scolding" like a mother and telling me to "reflect" as you have twice already (and which I actually have been doing since yesterday), I'm genuinely interested in what may be the best and most prudent "strategy" (maybe statistically, based on traffic studies? Or even in your own experience) in a situation like this.

[junkofdavid2]

Come on, some of you believe that just because you are not Thai that when in Thailand any incident you are involved with is automatically your fault?.

I’m sure some idiots may have made that accusation, and that some westerners may have sat back and fallen for it. BUT, the same idiots who are at fault would have blamed whoever the other party was for whatever reason they can think of at the time.

It’s a given here than no one accepts responsibility for anything, it’s a given that the responsibility is the next persons fault. So as a westerner, if in an accident, it’s a given that the majority of the time someone will try and blame you.

The police will just go with the easiest decision. It matters little to them who is to blame so long as the situation is dealt with easily and quickly.

So, if some one is in an accident and accepts responsibility when they are certain it’s not their fault - it was their weakness, paranoia or whatever people wish to call it that is to blame (that and the system).

Actually, I think it may be a normal reaction in all countries that any person involved will initially blame the other person, at least until cooler heads prevail.

In fairness to the bike driver who crashed into me, he seemed to eventually accept that it was his fault, as the cops were sermoning him and he was like nodding in reflection and agreement. (Even if he was earlier pointing the finger within seconds right after the accident). I don't think he was doing it because of "fear" of the cops, coz these cops seemed pretty level-headed and were even helping him up as they were sermoning him.

[doggie888888]

I think all the horror stories (other than the positive experience by the OP) are somewhat overstated. Just keep a cool head, appear contrite even if not your fault, show concern for any injury or damages...chances are the situation will not get worse. Had an accident recently in Pattaya...motorcyclist (no licence as it turned out) hit my rear bumper as he was speeding. He got flung off his bike but miraculously was not seriously injured. I showed some concern for him and "apolgised" for the accident...waited for police. When it was all over, my insurance covered my damage, he was sent off to god-knows-where by the police. Smiles all around, even shared a cigarette with "victim". And I was expecting a fist fight and other unsavoury behaviour but as it turned out, not a frightening experience at all. Of course I could have angrily accused him and ignored his injuries/damaged vehicle and go into farang fit mode...I rather suspect outcome would have been different.

[thaicbr]

Junk.

" it went amber first... albeit pretty quickly."

"(1) the light was already amber as I neared the intersection (which it was not), and (2) that the eventual amber was sufficient in time (as it also was not)"

________________________________________________________________________________

_____________________

"Instead of "scolding" like a mother and telling me to "reflect" as you have twice already (and which I actually have been doing since yesterday)"

Until this post you had made no mention that you were reflecting on anything other than getting away without interference from the BIB (WHICH TO BE FAIR , I would be thankful of as well)

If you need other people to suggest how YOU drive in any given situation. Then.......................

But ok.

what might be the best "strategy" to avoid an accident when approaching a completely green light

which has already been green for quite a while, but with no indication of when it's going to change...

I think the underlined will answer your question. You just have to think for a few seconds about the answer...... Hugs and xxx MUM

Edited June 12, 2009 by thaicbr

[katabeachbum]

Come on, some of you believe that just because you are not Thai that when in Thailand any incident you are involved with is automatically your fault?.

I'm sure some idiots may have made that accusation, and that some westerners may have sat back and fallen for it. BUT, the same idiots who are at fault would have blamed whoever the other party was for whatever reason they can think of at the time.

It's a given here than no one accepts responsibility for anything, it's a given that the responsibility is the next persons fault. So as a westerner, if in an accident, it's a given that the majority of the time someone will try and blame you.

The police will just go with the easiest decision. It matters little to them who is to blame so long as the situation is dealt with easily and quickly.

So, if some one is in an accident and accepts responsibility when they are certain it's not their fault - it was their weakness, paranoia or whatever people wish to call it that is to blame (that and the system).

Actually, I think it may be a normal reaction in all countries that any person involved will initially blame the other person, at least until cooler heads prevail.

In fairness to the bike driver who crashed into me, he seemed to eventually accept that it was his fault, as the cops were sermoning him and he was like nodding in reflection and agreement. (Even if he was earlier pointing the finger within seconds right after the accident). I don't think he was doing it because of "fear" of the cops, coz these cops seemed pretty level-headed and were even helping him up as they were sermoning him.

My experience the last couple of years, is that the cops tell the thai to blame that if he leaves now he will not have to pay for the damage he just caused and the cops will not have to fine him (300-1000 baht) for careless driving. Farang with insurance used to be blamed nomatter what, but it seems to change.

[Lost in LOS]

they have always been fair with me, never hassled without doing something yet

thank you for breaking at the light. each night i make a right from thepprasit to therrapaya [sp] and some ass [usually farang] comes speeding through the red light, often well after it has been red and although i drive carefully, slowly and am aware of the problem i have had several close calls. i let it slide each time but if one ever hits me and i can get up they had better leave the scene quickly. the cops will give a ticket there for no helmet but let everyone speed through that red light and whoever is doing it is a jerk and will deserve his outcome.

[junkofdavid2]

But ok.

what might be the best "strategy" to avoid an accident when approaching a completely green light

which has already been green for quite a while, but with no indication of when it's going to change...

I think the underlined will answer your question. You just have to think for a few seconds about the answer...... Hugs and xxx MUM

You obviously are side-stepping the question Mummy, and maybe don't know yourself...

So I guess I'll ask Dad.

[nonthaburial]

Junk. It's you that should be thinking about it not me.

"If I slow down, there's a greater chance that it might go red when I'm in the "middle""

This bit i really do not understand. If it goes Red under these circumstances then you have effectively ran an Amber light. Thus YOU are very much at fault for not paying attention or slowing down.

"On the other hand, if I slow down too much, it would be awkward... especially if the light stayed green"

And then this. WHAT would be awkward... The fact that you didn't just run a red or amber light or that your actions didn't cause some one to ram into the back of you. The fact is if you had been paying attention the motorcyclist would NOT have had to try and emergency stop.

It's no biggy, because this time you were lucky. But reflect on the accident so that it does not happen again. THAT'S all i'm trying to say.

Hold fire the Amber light is a warning light NOT a signal light. If the motorist is in the intersection when the amber light is shown he has every right to proceed. If however the motorist has not entered the intersection when the amber shows then he must stop. I know of no ruling which says that any motorist who tail ends another vehicle in front is not guilty !!!! It doesnt matter the situation in this case, the fact of the matter is the MC rider was to blame for driving with undue care and attention

[thaicbr]

You obviously are side-stepping the question Mummy, and maybe don't know yourself...

So I guess I'll ask Dad.

Son the answer is be aware of your surroundings and if your not sure, slow down and give your self time to react..... Junk. I'm not having ago at you exactly. just trying to highlight a problem. I'm sure on most occasions you are a good driver. And driving in Bangkok/Thailand is a pain in the arse so we can all make mistakes.

plus Dad sez "I hope the car's ok"

[thaicbr]

Hold fire the Amber light is a warning light NOT a signal light. If the motorist is in the intersection when the amber light is shown he has every right to proceed. If however the motorist has not entered the intersection when the amber shows then he must stop. I know of no ruling which says that any motorist who tail ends another vehicle in front is not guilty !!!! It doesn't matter the situation in this case, the fact of the matter is the MC rider was to blame for driving with undue care and attention

Exactly a warning signal which you should respond to. BY SLOWING DOWN in preparation for stopping for the red light. Yes the motorcycle rider was to blame BUT if the OP had been paying attention the OP would not have had to do a rapid deceleration (emergency stop) and therefore the MR would not have had to do the same. But yes it was the MR's fault that he hit the OP's car because the MR has a "lowly" motorbike without ABS...........Guys and Gals. All i was getting at IS accidents are very often both parties fault (in varying degrees).

Nonthaburial..I have an example for you. A motorcyle(big bike) is travelling in the outside lane (approx 100kmh). the lane is clear in front of the bike, and there is a u-turn approx 800metres ahead. Then from a side soi a truck accelerates rapidly out on to the 3 lane high way straight across 2 lanes and into the 3rd lane in the front of the bike then backs off the throttle thus slowing down (the truck was going for the u-turn). The rider was slowing but now has to emergancy stop due to the truck now in front. don't forget the truck is slowing. the bike skids into the back of the truck. Who's fault is it?

Edited June 12, 2009 by thaicbr

[richard_smith237]

Everyone out there on the roads are idiots who can do anything at any time, that includes you. The best way to drive is to treat everyone like an idiot, including me, and assume nothing…. After that there is a lot of luck.

Many of the issues that safer and defensive driving practices in the West have eradicated are not possible here. We have to adapt to the local conditions and unfortunately to get anywhere we have to become more assertive, pushy and break many of our rules.

I am a bit of an a$shole when I drive here and I hate it, but I have to be. Giving way to someone here can add 5-10mins to a 20min journey. It's not like back home, here, if I give way to one car to turn right in front of me I have to let 20 or more though, people will even drive 50m the wrong way down the road just to make that turn at which point a 20 minute grid-lock ensues and I’m stuck. These days I only give way if I can see that its only one or a couple of cars and even then I get caught out. It does get annoying when you do the right thing and then lots of other people take advantage.

I lost 15mins the other day on a 30min journey (it lasted 45mins) by stopping on amber at lights. I was stationary at the light for 15mins (no exaggeration, I timed it). Had I jumped the amber light I would have saved a lot of time, I’ll continue through on amber in future. At home the amber light to me means Stop if its safe to do so.

In response to this specific topic: If I drive into someone’s rear I’ll automatically accept blame. Unless they swerved in front on me at the last minute (as per the lorry u-turning situation), in that case I would argue the case.

Motorbikes are not the switched on careful drivers they are in the west in fact neither are a lot of the cars. On a number of occasions I’ve crested a klong bridge only to be met by traffic. The motorbike travelling behind who saw no reason to slow down as there was no traffic before the bridge (even though there is a junction 70m after it) slides past on his backside after his emergency braking has failed him. I've seen this a few times, its almost predictable at that location, I’ve not yet been hit by a motorbike – It will happen, it’s just a matter of time.

[junkofdavid2]

Another theory I'm thinking of is this...

Just like Thaicbr says, I'll slow down if the light has been green for a while... and if it doesn't turn amber, I continue to proceed at that slower rate until I hit a "point of no return" (say, 5-10 meters from the junction?).

If I hit the "point of no return" then I speed up and proceed regardless of what happens to the light, and bear the (smaller) risk of being caught by a copper on the other side if it does turn amber after the point of no return.

(But at least I won't have an accident, because the amber is 3 seconds, and the "allowance" after the amber before the intersecting green is 2+ seconds; giving me a total of 5 seconds ++ before any accident could actually happen... unless some intersecting dumbo decides to "factor in" the same allowance and jump the light).

Any comments on this "system"?

(If all you're gona do is "bash", then save your saliva... I won't give a f.ck... I really want to know your honestly logical opinion over a system like this..)