Windows 7 Will Be Available Without Ie In Europe

[yeti]

Microsoft plans to remove Internet Explorer from the versions of Windows 7 that it ships in Europe, CNET News has learned.

Reacting to antitrust concerns expressed by European regulators, Microsoft plans to offer a version in Europe that has the browser removed. Computer makers would then have the option to add the browser back in, ship another browser or ship multiple browsers, according to a confidential memo that was sent to PC makers and seen by CNET News.

"To ensure that Microsoft is in compliance with European law, Microsoft will be releasing a separate version of Windows 7 for distribution in Europe that will not include Windows Internet Explorer," the software maker said in the memo. "Microsoft will offer IE8 separately and free of charge and will make it easy and convenient for PC manufacturers to preinstall IE 8 on Windows 7 machines in Europe if they so choose. PC manufacturers may choose to install an alternative browser instead of IE 8, and has always been the case, they may install multiple browsers if they wish." ...

According to the rest of the article, Windows 7 retail (not bought with a computer) will not include IE. So a home user who will install Windows 7 will have a browser free Windows, and no way to download one. Might be problematic for people who don't think about downloading a browser and burning it to a CD before reinstalling Windows.

But on the whole I think it's good, thanks to the European Commission it will be possible to have Windows 7 without IE and without Windows Media Player .

[Tywais]

Link to source > CNET

[RKASA]

Smoke and mirrors.  The real issue with MS is nothing to do with browser and EU does not want to address it, but needs to seem to stand up for the poor EU.  You can download and install any browser you want, at least if IE is in windows you have something to download the other one with.  Total BS and nuts.  Same with media player.  If you don't want these things at install get linux.  MS products with an MS OS big supprise its installed by default.   What about ms changing or forcing word processor standards only they provide.  They beat down the standards boards and get what they want.  The EU boards are a butch of thiefs themselves.  Otherwise they would stand up to an office standard so people can share doc. without getting robbed, but they didn't did they.

[webfact]

Microsoft plans to remove Internet Explorer from the versions of Windows 7 that it ships in Europe, CNET News has learned.

Reacting to antitrust concerns expressed by European regulators, Microsoft plans to offer a version in Europe that has the browser removed. Computer makers would then have the option to add the browser back in, ship another browser or ship multiple browsers, according to a confidential memo that was sent to PC makers and seen by CNET News.

"To ensure that Microsoft is in compliance with European law, Microsoft will be releasing a separate version of Windows 7 for distribution in Europe that will not include Windows Internet Explorer," the software maker said in the memo. "Microsoft will offer IE8 separately and free of charge and will make it easy and convenient for PC manufacturers to preinstall IE 8 on Windows 7 machines in Europe if they so choose. PC manufacturers may choose to install an alternative browser instead of IE 8, and has always been the case, they may install multiple browsers if they wish." ...

According to the rest of the article, Windows 7 retail (not bought with a computer) will not include IE. So a home user who will install Windows 7 will have a browser free Windows, and no way to download one. Might be problematic for people who don't think about downloading a browser and burning it to a CD before reinstalling Windows.

But on the whole I think it's good, thanks to the European Commission it will be possible to have Windows 7 without IE and without Windows Media Player .

Yeah, great! Specially for those who must access online banking web sites which will only work with IE! There are many!

Indeed a brilliant idea - why not let the user decide during installation YES or NO to IE?

[yeti]

The link was already in my post (the ...).

On another note, the other browser manufacturers (and most notably Opera who pushed the European Commission to take action) are not happy at all, as they don't have the money to push PC manufacturers to offer their product, so they would have prefered for Windows to ask during the install which browser you want to install.

[Tywais]

The link was already in my post (the ...).

That's called a blind reference, need to make it more obvious. From the rules.

23) To use discretion when using blind references in any post or signature. Not all users of ThaiVisa.com are experienced enough to understand where these links may point.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

I think this is all BS. Where are anti-trust concerns against Apple for shipping Mac OS with Safari, or any Linux variant that comes out of the box with at least Firefox or Konqueror..??

Also the mentioned OS's contain at least one media player.

An OS without a web browser and a media player is pretty much useless, isn't it..?

While i don't particularly love Microsoft so i also don't support this stupidity of forcing them to exclude part of the OS which does nothing but inconvenience the user (correct, if one wants to download Firefox, he/she needs a browser to do that - what's the solution, EU?) On any Windows that i have installed the past couple of years, i open IE one single time - to download Firefox, then use that for the rest. And IE being "there" does not disturb me the least bit.

Also Windows Media Player, after adding the K-Lite Codec Pack that is the only player i use, for it will play just about every media format and it does so very conveniently, one player for all is the best there can be and WMP is very stable and fast, too.

Best regards....

Thanh

[surface]

You'd think the billions of dollars in extortion fines MS has paid to the EU would be enough already.

[yeti]

AFAIK M$ hasn't paid any fine yet, it's being appealed.

While i don't particularly love Microsoft so i also don't support this stupidity of forcing them to exclude part of the OS which does nothing but inconvenience the user (correct, if one wants to download Firefox, he/she needs a browser to do that - what's the solution, EU?)

Removing the browser from the OS is not something the Commission has imposed to M$, but something M$ will do hoping to appease the Commission while keeping it's market share.

What Opera (the plaintiff in this case) has asked, and what the Commission might impose is for the user to be given the choice between multiple browsers.

[RKASA]

"Removing the browser from the OS is not something the Commission has imposed to M$, but something M$ will do hoping to appease the Commission while keeping it's market share.

What Opera (the plaintiff in this case) has asked, and what the Commission might impose is for the user to be given the choice between multiple browsers."

Thats why its smoke and mirrors.  Now everyone claims victory and forget about the real problems.  Only one that loses is the consumer, as is normally the case.

[yeti]

Where did you read that everybody claims victory? As I posted earlier Opera and the other browser manufacturer are very unhappy with this move, and the European Commission said it's not what they wanted.

Personnally, if I can get one of these version I'd be happy to have an OS less bloated with programs I don't use.

[pete_r]

Yeah, great! Specially for those who must access online banking web sites which will only work with IE! There are many!

Indeed a brilliant idea - why not let the user decide during installation YES or NO to IE?

Possible solution to open these websites with firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1419

[Phil Conners]

Yeah, great! Specially for those who must access online banking web sites which will only work with IE! There are many!

Indeed a brilliant idea - why not let the user decide during installation YES or NO to IE?

Possible solution to open these websites with firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1419

Unfortunately IE tab requires MSIE to be installed in order to work.

But it is outrageous that banks just bluntly disregards everything and make their websites for MSIE only. How are people on Linux or XOS supposed to use the banking websites then?

Edited June 12, 2009 by Phil Conners

[RKASA]

Where did you read that everybody claims victory? As I posted earlier Opera and the other browser manufacturer are very unhappy with this move, and the European Commission said it's not what they wanted.

Personnally, if I can get one of these version I'd be happy to have an OS less bloated with programs I don't use.

I should have said thats what they hope will happen.  MS is tring to turn the consumer on the EU and other browser makers. i.e. its their fault you don't have a browser.  The EU and others have been giving them a hard time about IE.  They started it and now they got what they asked for.  In the end pressure mounts and they leave MS alone.  At that point they start the claims of victory on all sides.   Smoke and mirrors.  MS would not leave out IE for any other reason,  has to be something in it for them.  

The first part of the plan is working i.e. nobody is happy.

The second part of the plan everyones not talking about the real issues anymore.  

Third phase leave MS alone if you know whats good for ya.  

All this browser war stuff is meaningless anyway.  Why not require browser makers to have their own OS to start with, that would be just as fair and better for the consummer in the long run.   I don't support making them supply someone elses product.  They are lucky they have an OS like windows that can run it in the first place.  

Standards are what we need so we can share doc's and open the same sites like my modem which only sees IE6> I hate that.  Why should I have to have windows just because the ISP can't get a modem that works.   Issues like the browser war won't fix standards, the real issue.

And to be completely fair I have to add that everyone is as weak on the real issue as the EU comm,  Maybe its to hard for them to deal with.  maybe this little act will bury it all.

[nikster]

The reason the EU is anti bundling is that Microsoft was / is trying to take over the internet by introducing non-standard behavior in its own browser, with the aim of making websites only work with IE. This has been pretty successful, and very harmful to the consumer.

MS removed IE in order to turn public opinion against the EU. Pretty successful too so far. Next it will pressure resellers to install IE as the preferred browser... not that hard to predict really.

[raro]

Yeah, great! Specially for those who must access online banking web sites which will only work with IE! There are many!

Indeed a brilliant idea - why not let the user decide during installation YES or NO to IE?

Possible solution to open these websites with firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1419

Unfortunately IE tab requires MSIE to be installed in order to work.

But it is outrageous that banks just bluntly disregards everything and make their websites for MSIE only. How are people on Linux or XOS supposed to use the banking websites then?

Bangkok Bank is one of the culprits. I removed all IE from my computers and after signing up for their online banking I had to put it on again...

Bangkok Bank told me those days that ALL of their customers have IE. What if I run Linux? Cannot be our customer, Sir...

[H2oDunc]

I must be one of the few that sees this as all bad for the customer. What is so wrong to want to buy a OS that does all I want straight out of the box? Its like buying a car with no CD or radio installed at delivery because Bang and Olfsen are upset that some cheap Japanese equipment is installed at the factory ?. If Opera or FF can show me that their browser is better, quicker or more secure than IE then I will buy it or down load it. To me it appears they just want to get a portion of the market by underhand measures. Nobody has made a big fuss over Apple which ties their products more than MS has ever done. Let the buyer decide whether they want an OS with or without a browser and not some unelected nobody in Brussels.

Rant over! No lover of IE either. Tried Chrome but it has issues with TV so now use FF and am happy. I do though keep IE for sites that only work with it

[nikster]

I must be one of the few that sees this as all bad for the customer. What is so wrong to want to buy a OS that does all I want straight out of the box? Its like buying a car with no CD or radio installed at delivery because Bang and Olfsen are upset that some cheap Japanese equipment is installed at the factory ?. If Opera or FF can show me that their browser is better, quicker or more secure than IE then I will buy it or down load it. To me it appears they just want to get a portion of the market by underhand measures. Nobody has made a big fuss over Apple which ties their products more than MS has ever done. Let the buyer decide whether they want an OS with or without a browser and not some unelected nobody in Brussels.

Rant over! No lover of IE either. Tried Chrome but it has issues with TV so now use FF and am happy. I do though keep IE for sites that only work with it

Your reaction was pretty much what MS intended with this move - note that this is something Microsoft did, it was not mandated by the EU. They want to turn opinion against the EU.

The problem is that most people don't understand monopoly laws. Apple "gets away" (??) with this because they don't have a monopoly. If Apple makes their browser incompatible with everything else, and introduces proprietary standards to ensure a stranglehold over internet content, everyone will just laugh and not buy their stupid product. If MS has a 90% market share with their browser and does the same thing, then all websites need to scramble to update their content so it only runs on IE, allowing in effect MS to extend their operating system monopoly into the internet. They have actually tried that, and they haven't given up yet.

Anyway, removing IE without providing alternatives is not a good solution, and that's why Microsoft did this. It's another benefit of being a monopoly - you can afford to piss off your customers and they can't just switch to an alternative provider.

[nikster]

Bangkok Bank is one of the culprits. I removed all IE from my computers and after signing up for their online banking I had to put it on again...

Bangkok Bank told me those days that ALL of their customers have IE. What if I run Linux? Cannot be our customer, Sir...

Retards. Going to switch to a real bank soon. It's this combination of incompetence and ignorance that really annoys me. On the other hand, if they are technically so incompetent that they can't even get Firefox to work, I don't want to trust them with my online banking anyway. Is it going to be secure? Probably not.

Edited June 13, 2009 by nikster

[raro]

Bangkok Bank is one of the culprits. I removed all IE from my computers and after signing up for their online banking I had to put it on again...

Bangkok Bank told me those days that ALL of their customers have IE. What if I run Linux? Cannot be our customer, Sir...

Retards. Going to switch to a real bank soon. It's this combination of incompetence and ignorance that really annoys me. On the other hand, if they are technically so incompetent that they can't even get Firefox to work, I don't want to trust them with my online banking anyway. Is it going to be secure? Probably not.

So you can suggest another Thai bank with internet banking that runs on FF AND is functional? Pleased to hear!

[yeti]

Not sure about FF as I use Opera, but it should be the same:

- Siam Commercial Bank: you need IE to open an account, but after that you can do your everyday internet banking with another browser

- Kasikorn Bank: no problem with internet banking using Opera

[webfact]

Not sure about FF as I use Opera, but it should be the same:

- Siam Commercial Bank: you need IE to open an account, but after that you can do your everyday internet banking with another browser

- Kasikorn Bank: no problem with internet banking using Opera

both mentioned sites will work with FF and Chrome flawlessly

[surface]

Not sure about FF as I use Opera, but it should be the same:

- Siam Commercial Bank: you need IE to open an account, but after that you can do your everyday internet banking with another browser

- Kasikorn Bank: no problem with internet banking using Opera

both mentioned sites will work with FF and Chrome flawlessly

Partially correct.

Kasikorn works with personal accounts in FF, but not with business accounts (K-BizNet). I emailed them about this a month ago and was told the issue was sent to proper department already. The trash?. Simple CSS issue with the login page that is still not fixed.

[raro]

Not sure about FF as I use Opera, but it should be the same:

- Siam Commercial Bank: you need IE to open an account, but after that you can do your everyday internet banking with another browser

- Kasikorn Bank: no problem with internet banking using Opera

I tried SCB's internet banking about three years ago. Long story to that, just two highlights: In the Pattaya main branch the staff was literally laughing a t me when I asked for internet banking and after applying through their head office in Bangkok, we had several times SCB's "engineers" traveling from Bangkok to Pattaya who were not even able to login properly. Gave up on it.

I also had Kasikorn's internet banking, but it wasn't as comfortable as Bangkok Bank's.

[nikster]

Bangkok Bank is one of the culprits. I removed all IE from my computers and after signing up for their online banking I had to put it on again...

Bangkok Bank told me those days that ALL of their customers have IE. What if I run Linux? Cannot be our customer, Sir...

Retards. Going to switch to a real bank soon. It's this combination of incompetence and ignorance that really annoys me. On the other hand, if they are technically so incompetent that they can't even get Firefox to work, I don't want to trust them with my online banking anyway. Is it going to be secure? Probably not.

So you can suggest another Thai bank with internet banking that runs on FF AND is functional? Pleased to hear!

Planning a switch to HSBC.

[raro]

Bangkok Bank is one of the culprits. I removed all IE from my computers and after signing up for their online banking I had to put it on again...

Bangkok Bank told me those days that ALL of their customers have IE. What if I run Linux? Cannot be our customer, Sir...

Retards. Going to switch to a real bank soon. It's this combination of incompetence and ignorance that really annoys me. On the other hand, if they are technically so incompetent that they can't even get Firefox to work, I don't want to trust them with my online banking anyway. Is it going to be secure? Probably not.

So you can suggest another Thai bank with internet banking that runs on FF AND is functional? Pleased to hear!

Planning a switch to HSBC.

They have only one branch in Thailand and me living in Pattaya this is not the alternative that would work for me.

/edit: we were talking to them regarding a USD account as our headoffice in Singapore is using HSCB. Minimum at any given time on that account must be the equivalent of 5 Mio Baht at 0% interest - which is technically donating 5 Mio Baht to the bank. Our headoffice actually talked to their peers at HSCB trying to remove this barrier but no avail.

Needless to say that we won't open an account with this bank.

Edited June 15, 2009 by raro

[Plus]

If Win7 sans IE cost a hundred dollars/euros less, it would certainly would be worth getting a browser elsewhere to install.

[yeti]

Planning a switch to HSBC.

Good luck with them, I had to use their service once (as my bank account back home is with HSBC), definitely the worst HSBC branch the world over, and one of the worst banks in Thailand (unless maybe you have a few billions bahts to give them).

If Win7 sans IE cost a hundred dollars/euros less, it would certainly would be worth getting a browser elsewhere to install.

M$ products usually cost more in Europe than in the US, so it'll still probably be the case. And Windows without the media player was priced the same as the standard Windows.

[Phil Conners]

Not sure about FF as I use Opera, but it should be the same:

- Siam Commercial Bank: you need IE to open an account, but after that you can do your everyday internet banking with another browser

- Kasikorn Bank: no problem with internet banking using Opera

SCB internet banking is not compatible with anything but MSIE. Sure you can use some of the facilities with other browsers but there are many functions that only works on MSIE. No, I'm not going to spend time finding them to list them but I know I tried using FF. Eventually I "got around it" by using IE Tab which uses the MSIE engine to render the page. Not a perfect solution but allows me to use it without using MSIE.

[yeti]

I never had a problem using SCB Easy Internet Banking with Opera, either I don't use the specific functionalities you are talking about, or it's compatible with Opera and not FF.

Anyway, more competition amongst browsers, whatever form it takes, will contribute to eliminate this kind of compatibility issues.