South African Woman Jailed 25 Years For Heroin Smuggling

[Texpat]

Unadulterated bullsh!t.

If everyone had the same income and same cars and same houses -- do you think theft would disappear?

Alcohol is legal -- are you suggesting there are no alcohol problems because the state regulates it?

Pure fantasy.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Texpat

[sicknote]

As for the war on drugs not working....apply the same logic to theft, should we no longer persue thieves because we don't catch them all!!!!

Does the theft destroy the lives of millions worldwide? I'll go one better. The thief is probably stealing so he can go and buy hard drugs.......That's certainly how it is in my town.

State control and decriminalisation has not stopped Vondel park in Amsterdam being full of smackheads, who, by the way, are mostly non-Dutch attracted to the country by it's liberal attitudes.

State control and decriminalistaion has got nothing at all to do with hard drugs in Amsterdam. Soft drugs are controlled and hard drugs are dealt in the same way as most countries throughout the world..... Oh and the fact that it's non-Dutch who are the smackheads clearly proves that the system in Amsterdam works. I take it you must agree with this?

[mhan77]

Thailand has gone soft. 25 years to easy on her what is wrong can't they afford the rope.

Serving 25 years is not an easy task. I've seen guys back in the States do 5 years and return home without a marble or two.

[Texpat]

How many marbles did they have going in?

[DP25]

Outside of politics we need Thaksin to handle this scum. Thais cant afford the jails to take care of this vermon. Didnt he do a great job with yabba dealers!

Yes, murdering thousands of people completely uninvolved in the drug trade is clearly the answer.

[Texpat]

No it's a start. And it was very effective.

Sadly when Thaksin was ousted, the drugs wer back within a few months.

[jackdanielsesq]

I remember Colin Powell asking Thaksin why so many drug dealers were being wasted up north?!

His response "Resisting arrest!"

I rest my case.

BR>Jack

PS Every kid & liberal should watch the movie Midnight Express - maybe that will build some discipline or at least common sense. .

[sicknote]

If everyone had the same income and same cars and same houses -- do you think theft would disappear?

People don't have the same income and cars. Are you suggesting that thiefs then might be stealing for a reason? There is a high probability that they are stealing to fund a drug habit.

Alcohol is legal -- are you suggesting there are no alcohol problems because the state regulates it?

Where in any of my post's did I suggest to you that there are no alcohol problems because the state regulates it? Dont you remember what happened to your country during prohibition? I thought making alcohol illegal moved it underground into the criminal hands who then ran certain parts of the country for many years. Yeah the Mafia.

Pure fantasy.

Are you suggesting to me that it is pure fantasy that the govermnet of certain countries are/were not involved in the illegal drug trade?

[jackdanielsesq]

From my vantage point here up on the hill, along with my trusty baseball bat, ya sure do have a different

perspective on what is morally right or wrong. No doubt ya would fit in with some commune or other.

But, your views are pretty immature and way off the mark. It really dont matter what you think - twisted or otherwise -

there are laws that folks way smarter than you have put into place for the greater good of all, that must be obeyed,

or ya pay the piper. Period. They prolly had you in mind, when they set them up, and your brothers/sisters.

To the same end, there are a whole bunch of other real smart folks all over the world, who likewise concur.

There is a shuttle that leaves at 0300 for Pluto, where, I believe, you can do as you please, with impunity.

A trip to a crackhouse for a year might give you another POV - there are some very twisted souls therein.

BR>Jack

[robbo1]

Thailand has gone soft. 25 years to easy on her what is wrong can't they afford the rope.

In this day and age we would hope to have evolved from the sentencing of the death penalty.

What aout the death penalty she could have handed to hundreds of people one for the price of hundreds seems fair deal to me to many people like this get away with crap like this

[sicknote]

From my vantage point here up on the hill, along with my trusty baseball bat, ya sure do have a different

perspective on what is morally right or wrong. No doubt ya would fit in with some commune or other.

But, your views are pretty immature and way off the mark. It really dont matter what you think - twisted or otherwise -

there are laws that folks way smarter than you have put into place for the greater good of all, that must be obeyed,

or ya pay the piper. Period. They prolly had you in mind, when they set them up, and your brothers/sisters.

To the same end, there are a whole bunch of other real smart folks all over the world, who likewise concur.

There is a shuttle that leaves at 0300 for Pluto, where, I believe, you can do as you please, with impunity.

A trip to a crackhouse for a year might give you another POV - there are some very twisted souls therein.

BR>Jack

Hmmmmm

I know perfectly well right from wrong.

Why are my views immature and way off the mark?

The people who are way smarter than me have developed a law that clearly doesn't aid the war on drugs.

In my town where I have lived all my life it is easier for kids to buy drugs than alcohol. The only reason they have access to the drugs is because of the dealers. Arrest one dealer and two will take his place. Drugs are getting cheaper every year. Why is this the case? I would have thought the war on drugs would push prices up. People have no idea how bad the drug problem has actually got. You go into a bar and people from 18 to 70 are snorting coke in the toilets. Belive it or not it is actually cool these days to be a drug dealer. Kid's want to have careers dealing drugs. That is how bad it has got.

The older generation have not got one clue what is going on out on the streets. This is the problem.

Police officers in my town have been caught on mobile phone cameras snorting coke at parties. What chance have we got?

The so called smart people who make up the laws are living in a different world from the world that I seem to be living in.

You can't have any exposure either to what drugs are doing to communities like my own.

Anyway thanks for the banter tonight......

[BigBikeBKK]

For PC crowd who think smack is OK, try living with or near an addict for a while and tell me some of your experiences. The people who traffic need to be deterred, as do the moneyed folk, although they are a tad harder to get to.

I've lived near heroin addicts and I've lived near drunkards, and I can't honestly say which are worse. There are more drunkards in the world, and you're not likely to get your head smashed by a heroin user driving a car. Most heroin users lurk in dark corners and don't actively annoy others (like drunkards do) - except when they're ripping people off to support their habit. Plus, drunkards are far more likely to beat their women and start fights - than heroin addicts.

Thai leaders need to look squarely at each banned drug individually and assess for themselves what the penalty should be for marketing each drug. Instead, Thailand follows US drug laws note for note. Some of those US laws were written decades ago by drug addicted people (Mr. Anslinger was J.Edgar Hoover's best buddy, and he was a morphine addict). Mr. Anslinger was at the vanguard to criminalize ganja, a mean-spirited law that has wrecked the lives of hundreds of thousands of otherwise regular people just out to have some fun.

Decrimilization is the smartest way to begin the long slog toward a less drug-prone society. It would also enable authorities to tax drugs, and other authorities to deal with addicts in a humane manner. Big time dealers could be busted, and the small time 'mules' (like the S.A. woman) could be reprimanded and the drugs confiscated - and she'd likely be spooked to clean up her act. 25 years for a first offense is excessive.

My guess is she's a dark-skinned woman. If she were an attractive light skinned woman with gold acoutraments and connections with VIP Thais, it would be a far different story. The saga of Simon at the Phuket airport comes to mind.

Well said! Prohibition has never worked and never will. The "War on Drugs" will never be won, so why not admit that fact and move on to more sensible solutions- decriminalization, education and regulation.

[jackdanielsesq]

Like I said - get some discipline - its the law.

BR>Jack

[robbo1]

I remember Colin Powell asking Thaksin why so many drug dealers were being wasted up north?!

His response "Resisting arrest!"

I rest my case.

BR>Jack

PS Every kid & liberal should watch the movie Midnight Express - maybe that will build some discipline or at least common sense. .

Great movie agree would wake a few of them up

[marsteele]

What a bunch of dim-witted censorious moralists!! You actually seem to think that the mere carrying of drugs is evil, and that taking them is terrible, and that this poor woman deserves this sentence. You obviously think that prohibition is sensible and right.

The "war on drugs" is an idiocy that has created most of the criminality in the world today and cost society untold billions and untold misery. Drugs should be decriminalised and state-controlled, with support and care for addicts. That policy would be an immense improvement on the current state of affairs worldwide (except in a few enlightened European countries), costing the whole lot of us far far less in taxes and suffering.

People who support the current drastic penalisation of drug-takers and drug-traders are simply out to lunch.

It sounds to me that you are defending her actions, was she one of your pigions that got caught? How long have you been a drug dealer you must be very proud of your work. I put murderers, drug dealers, rapists and pedophilles in the same box..

[steve w]

What a bunch of dim-witted censorious moralists!! You actually seem to think that the mere carrying of drugs is evil, and that taking them is terrible, and that this poor woman deserves this sentence. You obviously think that prohibition is sensible and right.

The "war on drugs" is an idiocy that has created most of the criminality in the world today and cost society untold billions and untold misery. Drugs should be decriminalised and state-controlled, with support and care for addicts. That policy would be an immense improvement on the current state of affairs worldwide (except in a few enlightened European countries), costing the whole lot of us far far less in taxes and suffering.

People who support the current drastic penalisation of drug-takers and drug-traders are simply out to lunch.

i totally agree! if the scumbags want to take H let them! but tax it like the other deadly drugs like tobacco and booze,just take out the big profits of the criminal gangs that run the trade at the moment

[cognos]

Users and smugglers and anyone else knowingly involved are criminals and need to be punished severely.

I assume you are alluding to users of Heroin, a very dangerous drug.. lets discuss alcohol and marijuana for a second..I assume you would advocate that users of marijauna be punished severely as well. Is my assumption correct? I played hockey with a cop who told me that EVERY murder he has been to involved alcohol...NOT marijauna..I assume you would not want marijuana legalized...check the facts..alcohol causes WAY more damage in society in terms of lives lost and monies spent than POT, yet POT is demonized in LOS and the U.S. in general...why the double standard ?? Cigarettes are pretty bad too..they say half of cigarette smokers die of cancer..but that is acceptable in society..what a strange world..

[cognos]

No it's a start. And it was very effective.

Sadly when Thaksin was ousted, the drugs wer back within a few months.

murdering innocent people is an effective start ?? My God..this from someone from the land of the free and brave? Statements like this do not help the (perhaps inncorrect) image of Texas as a good ole boys red neck shoot em up club complete with Mr. Bush at the helm..I accept that you hate drugs and users, but to advocate killing innocents to justify the means?? My God

[risky11]

Thailand has gone soft. 25 years to easy on her what is wrong can't they afford the rope.

In this day and age we would hope to have evolved from the sentencing of the death penalty.

In the case of drug smuggling, where murder and violence was not committed, I agree. 25 years is one heck of a penalty for one's foolish attempt to make quick bucks.

But if one commits murder or is an accomplice to death, the death penalty is the only just and fair form of punishment. And it should be done in at least as painful a way as the murderer inflicted on his/her victim. An eye for eye and a life for a life still makes sense.

Only when people evolve beyond murder and cruelty will we be rightly able to "evolve" beyond the death penalty.

[AbelMagwitch]

The idea that a person can live normally on drugs is a bit off. Work and relationships would be difficult to maintain, just like booze.

Jailing drug dealers won't really do anything as some other shmuck will step in to do the job. I say make them work it off. Chain gangs I think they used to be called.

Abel.

BTW, I have no problems with executing people. Seems fair, cheap and certain to prevent reoffending. The idea that society can evolve past the death penalty assumes individuals can evolve past commiting awful crimes.

[AlanF]

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the rednecks on this topic have had some previous connections with the Golden Triangle.

[HagenvonTronje]

I remember Colin Powell asking Thaksin why so many drug dealers were being wasted up north?!

His response "Resisting arrest!"

I rest my case.

BR>Jack

PS Every kid & liberal should watch the movie Midnight Express - maybe that will build some discipline or at least common sense. .

what exactly could that piece of fiction do for me?

can you elaborate what this have to do with 'common sense'?

[angiud]

PS Every kid & liberal should watch the movie Midnight Express - maybe that will build some discipline or at least common sense. .

Just people growing in their country thinking life is a movie.

[meelousee]

499 grams ? sounds like a a range to me and maybe she was just under. Shame really , half a kilo of that stuff will send hundreds to their graves and many more family's destroyed. Oh well she will have time to reflect next 25 slow and miserable years

Outside of politics we need Thaksin to handle this scum. Thais cant afford the jails to take care of this vermon. Didnt he do a great job with yabba dealers!

No quite frankly Toxin did not do a good job.

More than 1/2 of those that were targeted were helpless users forced into dealing and transporting by the very same ones that executed them.

And in 15 cases it took 3 weeks to find weapons?

I don’t think what happened was a “Good Job”

Oh I forgot, I like the part about 25 slow years.

Edited June 19, 2009 by meelousee

[brahmburgers]

Users and smugglers and anyone else knowingly involved are criminals and need to be punished severely.

This is a heated debate - and it's good to see people voicing their opinions.

However, it so happens my opinion is right, and all differing opinions are wrong (chortle, chuckle).

Really, the drugs issue is not a black and white - mainly because drugs run the whole gamut. I once met a pianist at a beatnik bar in San Francisco who asked if I had any drugs to spare. I said, yea, I might be able to find someone who had some speed pills." He looked at me aghast and said, "No, not uppers, man. I want downers. Can you find me something related to H?!"

Man, as a species, has been doing drugs at least as long as he's been beating his women. Certain birds seek out rotten fruit to get sauced. I saw brief video of a monkey frantically eating a giant millipede - the monkey was getting a major buzz from the yellow liquid the insect was emitting. People aren't much different. Same with religion (as Chairman Mao once said, 'Religion is the Opiate of the People'). Mao was a moron and a sifflitic paedophile, but that's beside the point.

Muslims are thinning out their brethren day by day with bombs in markets, and druggies are thinning out others via other means. Drunks are doing their part to lessen overpopulation by driving, and also by bludgeoning their spouses in alcohol-fueled rages. Related to that is the #1 reason for high insurance costs/hospital fees/missed work is alcohol abuse. The subject of whether or not to legalize drugs should be based, as much as anything else, on the individual drugs in question. Instead, the brain dead (and whiskey guzzling) politicians who harshly enact the laws - see all drugs other than alcohol-laced - as evil. ....oh, the pharma drugs are ok too, but that's because corporations have that sector wrapped up.

Edited June 19, 2009 by brahmburgers

[unforgiven]

What a bunch of dim-witted censorious moralists!! You actually seem to think that the mere carrying of drugs is evil, and that taking them is terrible, and that this poor woman deserves this sentence. You obviously think that prohibition is sensible and right.

The "war on drugs" is an idiocy that has created most of the criminality in the world today and cost society untold billions and untold misery. Drugs should be decriminalised and state-controlled, with support and care for addicts. That policy would be an immense improvement on the current state of affairs worldwide (except in a few enlightened European countries), costing the whole lot of us far far less in taxes and suffering.

People who support the current drastic penalisation of drug-takers and drug-traders are simply out to lunch.

finally a forward thinking individual.Within the next 100 yrs this will be the approach. It's only logical

[unforgiven]

No it's a start. And it was very effective.

Sadly when Thaksin was ousted, the drugs wer back within a few months.

murdering innocent people is an effective start ?? My God..this from someone from the land of the free and brave? Statements like this do not help the (perhaps inncorrect) image of Texas as a good ole boys red neck shoot em up club complete with Mr. Bush at the helm..I accept that you hate drugs and users, but to advocate killing innocents to justify the means?? My God

Listen if you want to punish people that have ruined millions of peoples lives start with those investment bankers. Their penaly is millions in golden parach utes

[ScubaBuddha]

Thailand has gone soft. 25 years to easy on her what is wrong can't they afford the rope.

In this day and age we would hope to have evolved from the sentencing of the death penalty.

In the name of what ?, business, profits, etc. What will it cost the taxpayers to keep her in the Hilton for 25 years...ok, probably not much although in the states, on average it takes about 50k USD a year to 'care' for one inmate and many prisons are private companies.....

...agreed, this fool was trying to smuggle a nasty drug for profit & fee plus airfare.....she would definitely not be classified as a humanist, so let her do her time. But what about convicted murderers & rapists who claim no innocence, spend years in prison, paroled and commit the same or worse crime and it's back to the slammer @ $50,000 a year to Mr & Mrs taxpayer.....Many people in jail for minor offenses but the budget needs to be increased every year so more people need to be arrested.........this was before the financial meltdown.....the Governor of California told voters if they didn't vote for his agenda then he would have no choice but to release 30,000 convicted criminals onto the streets without funds to pay the 50,000 dollars a year per man.....that's a savings of 1.5 billion dollars that taxpayers are responsible for.........(sorry for rambling), just my 2 cents.......nothing wrong with eliminating someone who has conscientiously ended someone else s life.......most especially, re-peat offenders..........if she pays enough to the right people she won't be in jail long

There is no argument for a death penalty that stands up to logical, rational debate.

It is a practice conceived of and carried out by emotionally (or religiously) compromised people. (I.E. the argument, "How would you feel if you were the victims/victims parents etc.) Those people should not be making our laws. It is created by politicians attempting election or re-election by appealing to irrational fears using a tough on crime platform. In reality, studies show it is proven to be no more a deterrent than life terms in prison.

The fact of the matter is, it costs more to execute someone than it does to incarcerate them for life. So, lets remove the endless appeals process you say? Consider this: In the last 50 years in America the number of people proven to have been innocent of the crime they were executed for is on the double digits. Remove the safe guards and more errors will be made.

Many countries will not sign an extradition treaty with the U.S. because they do not believe in the death penalty, often due to religious beliefs. Crims know this and flee to these counties to avoid prosecution

Don't get me wrong, I don't shed to many tears over some of these guys we have off'ed over the years, (I say we because as a former Californian my tax dollars have gone to pay for several institutionalized homicides) Whatever your rationalizations are, it is a costly, immoral and unethical act and a terrible message to send to our children and to the rest of the world.

To have a death penalty is to say we have a perfect legal system. We don't. It doesn't exist. You can not overturn that sentence once it is carried out. As someone once said "America has the worst legal system in the world, except for all the rest."

Edited June 19, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[webfact]

PS Every kid & liberal should watch the movie Midnight Express - maybe that will build some discipline or at least common sense. .

Just people growing in their country thinking life is a movie.

or watch the movie "Dadah is Death"...

[technologybytes]

It's very sad that this young woman is going to spend at least the next 10 years of her life behind bars. It seems obvious that she is very much a victim herself, typically people who do this on such a big scale are not working alone and sometimes they are threatened with violence against themselves or their families if they do not comply.

Simply, we don't know the full background to this case, so anything discussed here is simply personal opinion and speculation.

I feel sorry for her, and the people who suggest that she should have been put to death are the kind of people of cause half the problems in the world today.. in my opinion.

Does anyone know if this lady is getting support and help for buying food, medicine and clothes etc, I'm not sure the South African government will help her. I for one would be happy to make a donation to help her out, I guess in the eyes of many that would make me stupid and soft, but rather that than be bitter and twisted.