Tsunami Victims Ready To Sue USA And Thailand

[The_Moog]

Ok one of your points was about not being 100% sure if a tsunami was on its way or not.

...response.

Ok we forgive them during that time when it was on its way. People weren't sure (even though it was the biggest earthquake in years)

BUT

then it hit Thailand...... NOT ALL OF THAILAND AT THE SAME TIME.

So i'm sitting in the Meterological Office and I get news that the tsunami has hit Krabi.

"Oh" I think, "its not a POSSIBLE tsunami anymore. Its a real one and its moving up the coast."

So do I then issue my warning, which I have been holding back until I learn more information? One might think it was now a good idea - a bit late- but not too late for Ranong and Khao Lak.

No, they still didn't.

How much clearer can we say this ?????? Its such a simple point.

TEOS quoted you the precise Met Office comment which you incorrectly paraphrased.

Another point you made....

So on conclusion, can we say it's right to say "The Thai government knew a tsunami was on its way and thousands were going to die but decided not to do anything in order to save money."?

No, thats not it and if you're going to make silly inferrences like this, then people won't spell out the answers for you. They just messed up thats all - but that may expose them legally. They didn't want any deaths, but thats not enough to be found ' Not Guilty'.

Edited February 18, 2005 by The_Moog

[Digger]

I have just read through this entire thread and two posters in particular have such a superior attitude that it is beyond belief. You guys are clowns, go back to running around your condo's with your cowboy outfits and toy guns - acting the big sheriff on this forum is hardly going to change anything. What I do find interesting is WHAT did you do to help avert the disaster. Did either of you phone the Sofitel and tell them - I doubt it but as soon as this is over your running around sprouting about how things SHOULD be - well most of us know that, but accept we are living in a developing nation where they struggle to reduce road deaths that are easily avoidable - what else are you going to do, sue Honda, Yamaha and suzuki for not supplying crash helments with motorbikes - the two obviously go hand in hand but if so many educated westerners could not see what was occuring, how can you be so hard on Thai's.

Certainly one of you is living here according to what you have posted - you must appreciatte how things are here and as for blaming Sofitel, that is futile beyond belief. What makes you think anybody at the Sofitel was aware of something happening? How many of the hotel managers are scanning the internet at 0900 in the morning for news stories that could predict something - odds are they doing their job and ensuring their guests are happy. Nobody told them the disaster was coming, not least your wise selves so please give it a rest and actually do some positive with your lives. Perhaps it might be worth stopping watching LA LAW or other such 'legal shows'

[meemiathai]

So that means now both you and I agree that it was justifiable not to have given a warning before the first tsunami hit thailand. Is that right?

Do all of you guys agree here? If yes, problem solved, we go to next question.

BUT

then it hit Thailand...... NOT ALL OF THAILAND AT THE SAME TIME.

So i'm sitting in the Meterological Office and I get news that the tsunami has hit Krabi.

"Oh" I think, "its not a POSSIBLE tsunami anymore. Its a real one and its moving up the coast."

So do I then issue my warning, which I have been holding back until I learn more information? One might think it was now a good idea - a bit late- but not too late for Ranong and Khao Lak.

No, they still didn't.

Now this is more complicated. We have to have the details first. How much time was there between the first and last tsunami that hit Thailand? And what do you think they didn't do?

[The_Moog]

You guys are clowns

Trying to explain contingent legal issues that may or may not arise, you whingeing ignoramus.

Its not how I think life should be, i'm just trying to outline a possible case scenario

Its not about what I did, i'm not being sued. This is how a court will look at it.

If you're going to be foul mouthed about it, then lets let the court decide and you can express your beery befuddlement then. I note that Digger was the person suggesting to Kat that she might have HIV - you jackass.

I'm happy not to debate any further. I'm not on a personal crusade like you think, just trying to explain why an offbeat legal suit may in truth have some merit.

Edited February 18, 2005 by The_Moog

[meemiathai]

Another point you made....

So on conclusion, can we say it's right to say "The Thai government knew a tsunami was on its way and thousands were going to die but decided not to do anything in order to save money."?

No, thats not it and if you're going to make silly inferrences like this, then people won't spell out the answers for you. They just messed up thats all - but that may expose them legally. They didn't want any deaths, but thats not enough to be found ' Not Guilty'.

Which part of my statement is silly? This exactly what I see from your comments.

[meemiathai]

You see, people running away again in the middle of a discussion!

[The_Moog]

So on conclusion, can we say it's right to say "The Thai government knew a tsunami was on its way and thousands were going to die but decided not to do anything in order to save money."?

MMT - if you think this is a safe conclusion, then far be it from me to dissuade you. I always enjoy debating with you- but its past our bedtime.

As I said, I have no vested interest in the trial - I lost just one friend to the tsunami. I think both sides have a robust case, but when Digger starts burbling on about how merely analysing a Plaintiff's possible Case makes me a clownish proponent of anti-Thai subversive propaganda - then its definitely bedtime for all of us!

Edited February 18, 2005 by The_Moog

[meemiathai]

But it is between you and me. Other's comments has got nothing to do with us.

Anyway, you are right, good night, see ya to mo lo!

[Digger]

You guys are clowns

Trying to explain contingent legal issues that may or may not arise, you whingeing ignoramus.

Its not how I think life should be, i'm just trying to outline a possible case scenario

Its not about what I did, i'm not being sued. This is how a court will look at it.

If you're going to be foul mouthed about it, then lets let the court decide and you can express your beery befuddlement then. I note that Digger was the person suggesting to Kat that she might have HIV - you jackass.

I'm happy not to debate any further. I'm not on a personal crusade like you think, just trying to explain why an offbeat legal suit may in truth have some merit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What makes you think I was refering to your comments? Not sure why you then refer to me, in the singular as a Whingeing ignoramus and then a jackass. Personally I dont feel the need to trade personal insults - my comments were meant as general comment on how incredible some unspecified posters were getting. Just my observation. As for your comments about HIV what has that got to do with anything on this subject? If you care to look up the symptoms, you will see that they are consistent - If I recall, I suggested the poster went to see a doctor rather than rely on internet message boards for what could be a potentially serious illness. No idea if the poster went to the doctor, thats there call.

[SoCal]

Wow, 9pp. Rediculous. I guess that's why it's resorted to name calling.

Maybe it's the last Seinfeld that creates doubt, but you cannot sue someone for failing to act/warn (good samaritan law) in the US.

This is strictly for publicity.

[mandl]

Let's get back on topic please.

[sonthaya]

I would have totally agreed with you if a system was there already stating all the procedures to be carried out in case of an earthquake under the sea within a certain distance.  But was there anything like that?  It would have been a very difficult situation for the persons in charge to make a decision without the knowledge of judging HOW LIKELY a tsunami would really be on its way.

1) "We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't want to upset tourism"

Sorry, I think it should be " We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't know what was going to happen"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like your postings, it's so easy to try to put the blame on the Thai government, but untill this I had never heard about a Tsunami, and I can't see how you should be able to warn people about what was happening.

[sonthaya]

the Thai Meteological Institute knew about the earthquake 15 minutes after it had occured

I knew about it 15 minutes before they did then !!!

I thought my building in Witthayu Road was falling down. Call that a "Warning" alright!- I was out of here in my pyjamas !!!!

This isn't a seismic area, so it was either the building collapsing or something enormous was happening thousands of miles away.

Back indoors half an hour later - onThaivisa. - USGS website details was posted by a member, had a look...'ah, Aceh'

By nine o clock I was eating my bacon and eggs.

Same time - Meterological Office were worried about upsetting the tourists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you knew about it why didn't you send out a warning ??

[350torana]

I always thought a meteoroligist was someone who studied the weather, atmosphiric conditions..etc. I keep hearing that the scientists whose job it was to enable a early warning would be meteoroligists. Surely, it would be a seismoligist who would understand tectonic plates and their frictions?

[chaladmak]

today on local TV Thaksin was giving interview about this matter - although I didn't understand much what

but one interesting thought: why these guys won't sue, say - Indonesia where actually the epicenter was and most casualties are, or Sri Lanka - there also farang tourists died. strange.... if at all such blame can be put on anyone !

[Snowdog]

Tsunami Victims Ready to Sue US and Thailand

Victims of the earthquake and tsunami that destroyed much of the South Asian coastline last December are reportedly preparing a lawsuit in New York against the US Bureau of Meteorology and the Thai government for failing to warn them about the earthquake.

Lawyers for 15 Austrian and four German tsunami victims announced in the Austrian capital Vienna yesterday (February 15) that the case is not primarily concerned with compensation, but aims to reveal the negligence of those sued over the issue. The lawyers asserted that the Washington-based US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii did not warn the countries on the Indian Ocean in time despite records of the earthquake.

The case alleges that the NOAA and Thailand authorities recorded the epicenter and size of the earthquake within 15 minutes, but they did not inform the countries which border on the Indian Ocean.

--Anadolu News Agency 2005-02-16

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok since When is it the united state problem on warning anybody of a tsunami we only have to warn our country of anything since it is our taxes that pay for this system not any other countrys if you want this to work for you then pay your fair share.This pathetic lawsuit will be thrown out of court so fast its not funny.once again this is to warn the united states of any problems not the world.I know bush sure seems to think we are the world police wich i think is a joke we have our own problems as it is.i sure wish the other countrys would pull there fair share for once.We always have been a country others look up for help with anything.and all we get in return is looked down on and criticised for trying to make this world a peacefull place to live for everybody.its not our fault the muslims can`t even get allong with there own kind let allone the world.

[The_Moog]

If you knew about it why didn't you send out a warning ??

Oh, Gawd, its all about me again !

I did, if you must know. In my very small and limited way I did. I posted an alert of my quake experiences here immediately on returning to my flat with my pregnant wife,. I sat her down comfortably, then posted.

I also posted on Bangkok Chat, at 9.15 am, but people wanted to talk about English teacher fees, and wouldn't listen.

...next I found my IP address had been barred from Bangkok Chat.

Look, the US agencies NOAA and USGS will be exonerated- definitely. 95% that the Hotels will be exonerated too, they will all be pointing fingers at the Thai Government - perhaps its 50-50 for Thailand - and so lets just wait and see.

Maldives and Sri Lanka Governments - they're in an even stickier situation than Thailand, as they had longer to react and they knew a wave had already struck Thailand. In their favour though - they haven't made such daft quotes about tourism.

If Thailand, as its Defence, wants to point out in Court that "Sheriff Moog" didn't do enough either, then so be it.

I'm now going on holiday.

Deputy Digger, i'm leaving you in charge of this town !

Edited February 19, 2005 by The_Moog

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

I agree - positivism is one of things lacking nowdays

Always look on the bright side of life.

da dum, da dum da dum da dum.

A wave may be coming - or OPTIMISTICALLY - not,

You're paid to make a Warning,

not keep your finger up your bot.

Stay positive, never wear a frown

Everyone who contradicts me is a 'clown'......

ohhhhh - (altogether now..............)

Always look on the Bright side of life

de da, de dum, di diddly doo.

Edited February 19, 2005 by The_Eye_Of_Sauron

[RDN]

This thread cleaned up - a few posts deleted. Try to keep it civil, please.

[joinme2leave]

a/Chico: pls allow me to correct you: neither the austrians nor the germans will pay a single Euro in advance to sue anybody! It soley is that particular u.s. attorney and his high handed behaviour to proceed and cash in some 50% of the outcome in c a s e lawsuit turns out to be successfull.

I sure understand one can have 2 different points of view in that lawsuit effort: how would I re(act) if one of my beloved ones was involved? And, honestly...I do not know... But again, refering to Ed Fagans intentions I can tell ya there where LOTS of affected families in austria who DID NOT join (t)his "american way of public blackmail" (sorry about my english folks....though I hope u got the point...)

[DaveYo]

Listen up folks, from the onset of the earthquake yes such is recorded, but that Tsunami DID NOT TAKE AN HOUR TO REACH SHORE.

I saw the pictures of when such was taken via the satelite. That wave hit less than 20 minutes later since it was so close to shore and to Thailand.

There was no time for Thailand to react fast enough yet maybe a wee bit of time to issue a warning of such quake taking place and advising all those on shore to get to high ground, and knowing Thais as people they are very slow like turtles and usually ignore most warnings due to history etc. So cross that out, since they had no such warning system in place.

However, the areas that were hit, they did not have an early warning system in place, like they do in America.

Now in the case of INDIA and up north yes there was sufficient time to warn those people, yet they too did not have such early warning system in place like it is in America.

So for those lawyers they can go get screwed and double screwed.

You cannot sue Governments for natural events unknown to man. They even have such written in the Insurance Policies.

That is like well all those victims of the World Trade Center suing United Airlines, American Airlines for the deaths of all the people because such breach occurred in efforts to prevent such taking place, not to mention the owners of the Center itself for poor construction and lack of updating such building etc.

You got the money to pay for all that and more??????????

You got to be kidding.

Daveyo

Edited February 20, 2005 by DaveYo

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think that you are right this time Dave

[The_Moog]

I saw the pictures of when such was taken via the satelite. That wave hit less than 20 minutes later since it was so close to shore and to Thailand.

Dave Yo - (In "Illinois")

I was awoken by the bed shaking at about 8.15 am - i.e quake.

People on this forum living in Southern Phuket say the wave hit Phuket about 10.00am

Ranong - lets say another half an hour later, to be safe- (but perhaps later)

20 minutes? Lets do the math.

If they are wrong, they're wrong, we're wrong

and I stand corrected.

I hope the carpet bagging ambulance chaser does not win his civil case

as its him that stands to benefit personally. Still lets see.

Edited February 20, 2005 by The_Moog

[meemiathai]

I would have totally agreed with you if a system was there already stating all the procedures to be carried out in case of an earthquake under the sea within a certain distance.   But was there anything like that?  It would have been a very difficult situation for the persons in charge to make a decision without the knowledge of judging HOW LIKELY a tsunami would really be on its way.

1) "We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't want to upset tourism"

Sorry, I think it should be " We didn't do ANYTHING because we didn't know what was going to happen"

I like your postings, it's so easy to try to put the blame on the Thai government, but untill this I had never heard about a Tsunami, and I can't see how you should be able to warn people about what was happening.

Thanks, sonthaya.

[Pattaya_Fox]

How can any government be at fault when this was act of mother nature??

Sorry, irrelevant in Court.

No, wasn't it an act of God?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote

It's absolutely amazing how much "hind-sight" some people have. If the earthquake and ensuing tsunami could have been predicted by someone, then we needed those same people around when the volcano erupted in the Phillipines, killing hundreds, and when Mt Vesuvius erupted in Italy, burying the city of Pompei, and when the fire broke out in the hotel in Jomtein, killing hundreds. Wow.....you guys are great.....you should be prognosticators yourselves then you could put the blame where it belongs..... even BEFORE it happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hind sight.....If I recall most of the people who died in the fire in the Jomtiem hotel died because the management ordered the fire doors to be locked so that people would not leave the hotel without paying their bill.......an act of man ...not god.

[iceangel]

WTH?? Is this thread a joke? In all seriousness these lawsuits are becoming a joke! How can you sue people over a natural disaster?

1. If they had of given a warning and nothing eventuated they would have been sued for the hassle.

These meteorologists are only human. Do people really expect miracles? If there was a warning, do you really think everyone would have believed them anyway? The forecasts are never right!

2. Countersuit - USA & Thailand to sue the Education Departments of victims countries because why weren't they taught about tsunamis? If they had of known that the one "sign" of a tsunami is the fast receding water of a wave.... they might have run earlier?!

Don't you think this is all getting out of control?! It's a NATURAL DISASTER! If it was just a major earthquake and thousands died, i bet they'd find someone to sue as well. Just because they have lost loved ones and are hurting, it's no reason to bring hurt onto others. This is all very spiteful. Revenge doesn't pay!

I'm an Australian and i also lost my only Sister in Khao Lak. Thank goodness she has now been identified by family members, but we are still waiting for the dna process. These people should just thank god they survived and were so well cared for by the generous Thai people and get on with their lives like we all have to do! The things i have heard from other survivors, my Father and Uncle who raced over there, the Thai people don't deserve this! When you look at the big picture... Sueing the government? Where does this money come from? THAI PEOPLE.... Why should they have to pay for this petty crap? haven't they paid enough!? They lost so many loved ones! Whole families gone! Whole villages gone! Why should they have to pay for foreigners who lash out in grief!? The Thai people had lost thousands and they were still looking after foreigners and doing everything they could to help them (the foreigners), even though they were grieving themselves!

Come on for God Sake! We are all human beings, we all make mistakes. This isn't an act of terrorism, or human destruction! It's a natural disaster caused by NATURE! Why should the THAI PEOPLE have to pay for that! They have thousands of orphans to now take care of! I was meant to go with my Sister, we were going to make this a family thing but i wasn't a big fan of Thailand so i changed my mind at the last minute. I have a total different view of this country now, i respect the people so much, yes they have their "bad people", but what country doesn't? My Family have now decided we are going to spend every Christmas in Thailand, this is for my Sister, but also because we really don't think we'd want to holiday anywhere else. What country can you go to that has such beautiful beaches, such a relaxing environment and the most friendly people on earth! All countries have had tragedies, although not to this extent. But it isn't the fault of the Thai people, if you sue Thailand... Who do you think pays? Haven't these people been through enough!

Edited February 21, 2005 by iceangel

[phuketsiam]

VIENNA (Reuters) - U.S. and Austrian lawyers have filed a lawsuit demanding Thailand, U.S. forecasters and the French Accor group answer accusations they failed in a duty to warn populations hit by December's Tsunami disaster, a lawyer said Monday.

The lawsuit was filed Friday at a New York district court on behalf of tsunami victims by lawyers including U.S. attorney Edward Fagan, internationally renowned for 1990s lawsuits against Swiss banks over Holocaust-era accounts. It demanded an account of their actions on Dec. 26.

"We expect a hearing within 30 days," Austrian lawyer Gerhard Podovsovnik told Reuters.

"We don't earn any money on the lawsuit. We want to help people," he said. "We are suing to get information."

The disaster left about 300,000 people dead or missing in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Maldives, Bangladesh and East Africa. Hundreds of thousands lost their homes.

The text of the lawsuit is available on the Web site www.tsunamivictimsgroup.com.

The U.S. and Austrian lawyers filed the lawsuit on behalf of around 60 named plaintiffs from Austria, Germany, France, Netherlands and elsewhere. Podovsovnik said they were also acting on behalf of at least 40 more not named.

The lawsuit suggests the Thai government and the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), which operates a Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii, failed to issue the requisite warnings.

SLOW WARNINGS

"Respondent NOAA did not notify all involved countries which lay in the tsunami's path. From public information it appears that ... NOAA failed to issue an alert that would notify countries where the tsunami hit that the deadly wave was coming," the lawsuit said.

"Published reports emerged that upon receipt of the NOAA alert and other data, the seismological and oceanographic experts of Thailand spent more than one hour talking about what the risk may or may not have been, instead of immediately issuing a warning to their population," it said.

It also accused Thailand of failing to notify Sri Lanka that a tsunami wave was headed its way.

Among the charges leveled against Accor, the owner of the Sofitel hotel chain, was failure to equip its luxury resort and spa in Khao Lak, Thailand with state-of-the-art seismic detection and warning systems, despite its location "in an earthquake and tsunami fault zone."

Last month, Accor issued a statement denying media reports of possible negligence in connection with the tsunami disaster. "The allegations concerning Accor are completely unfounded," Accor said on its Web Site.

[otherstuff1957]

"From public information it appears that ... NOAA failed to issue an alert that would notify countries where the tsunami hit that the deadly wave was coming," the lawsuit said.

"Published reports emerged that upon receipt of the NOAA alert and other data, the seismological and oceanographic experts of Thailand spent more than one hour talking about what the risk may or may not have been, instead of immediately issuing a warning to their population," it said."

Now maybe I'm nit-picking here, but aren't they contradicting themselves here? First they say the NOAA didn't issue an alert and then they say that the Thai authorities spent an hour talking about the NOAA alert rather than passing it on!

[RDN]

"From public information it appears that ... NOAA failed to issue an alert that would notify countries where the tsunami hit that the deadly wave was coming," the lawsuit said.

"Published reports emerged that upon receipt of the NOAA alert and other data, the seismological and oceanographic experts of Thailand spent more than one hour talking about what the risk may or may not have been, instead of immediately issuing a warning to their population," it said."

Now maybe I'm nit-picking here, but aren't they contradicting themselves here?  First they say the NOAA didn't issue an alert and then they say that the Thai authorities spent an hour talking about the NOAA alert rather than passing it on! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well spotted! Clearly, according to the lawyers, not only was it NOAA's job to inform the Thai authorities, but also to monitor the Thai authorities response to that warning and, if no warning was issued to their population then it was NOAA's responsibility to warn said population.

[toastwars]

Tsunami Victims Ready to Sue US and Thailand

Victims of the earthquake and tsunami that destroyed much of the South Asian coastline last December are reportedly preparing a lawsuit in New York against the US Bureau of Meteorology and the Thai government for failing to warn them about the earthquake.

Lawyers for 15 Austrian and four German tsunami victims announced in the Austrian capital Vienna yesterday (February 15) that the case is not primarily concerned with compensation, but aims to reveal the negligence of those sued over the issue. The lawyers asserted that the Washington-based US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii did not warn the countries on the Indian Ocean in time despite records of the earthquake.

The case alleges that the NOAA and Thailand authorities recorded the epicenter and size of the earthquake within 15 minutes, but they did not inform the countries which border on the Indian Ocean.

--Anadolu News Agency 2005-02-16

Ok since When is it the united state problem on warning anybody of a tsunami we only have to warn our country of anything since it is our taxes that pay for this system not any other countrys if you want this to work for you then pay your fair share.This pathetic lawsuit will be thrown out of court so fast its not funny.once again this is to warn the united states of any problems not the world.I know bush sure seems to think we are the world police wich i think is a joke we have our own problems as it is.i sure wish the other countrys would pull there fair share for once.We always have been a country others look up for help with anything.and all we get in return is looked down on and criticised for trying to make this world a peacefull place to live for everybody.its not our fault the muslims can`t even get allong with there own kind let allone the world.

You seem to want to get involved in everything else, why start being selectve now? I mean you Invade countries for sneezing in the wrong direction but no it's all "we are'nt responsible, we can't be the worlds police force", stop acting like it and if you just want to look after America stop interfeering with everyone elses business. Don't blame Bush you put him there...twice!!